PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Avathius on February 23, 2011, 03:18:19 am
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First of all, hi Planeshift. Some of you might know me as Kaibane, because I changed my character name. I have been playing for around 3 years, but the activation email for the forums never worked. Finally, I tried again, and it did. I have been wanting to post this for a while, ever since I got my name changed:
The point of this topic is discussion of "evil" characters. As some of my friends know, I changed my name for roleplay purposes: Avathius was his name as a noble leader of the Legacy guild (it had a different name, but it's conterversial), but then his best friend was killed in a war and he turned to darkness and chaos. He was banished from the guild (which he later "killed." Actually, everyone just left lol, but whatever) and then, in his anger, completely annihilated the guild that slew his friend (actually, the guild war made the enemy guild break up, so this is almost partly true). Avathius then delved into the darkness of his past and his Black Flame name, Kaibane (pronounced "kaibayne," for those in-game who were wondering. It's not "kaibanay") he changed to be his real name. Now he is feared and hated by all, wanted by law, and his only true home is the death realm among the death mages who seek shelter there. When he travels through Hydlaa he is forced to walk in the shadows, blade drawn, lest a guard or citizen see him.
People read my description (which isn't entirely like that, but it's close) and then decide that they want to hate my character. Now, I'm ok with that. An evil character should be hated. But then, they start insulting ME as a person, because of what I say in my character description. Some of the comments were:
"Noob!" (of course, *ugh*-are there even noobs in PS?)
"Don't talk about how powerful you are! I can get my guild to gang up on you and kill you any time!"
"You suck. Characters aren't supposed to be evil." (no joke here. Someone actually said that. A character can be whatever you want it to be, jeez)
"I could kill you in a duel. Don't threaten me."
People don't understand: I don't duel anymore. I used to have killer stats, but because of 0.5 my character now sucks (at least he can wear heavy armor and has some half-decent gear). My "threats" are for RP purposes only.
The overall point of this thread is that there are too many character descriptions that go like this:
"He always has a twinkle in his eye and a good story to tell"
"She is always willing to party or have a keg of beer in Gugrontid"
"An old, crusty warrior who is always telling stories of past battles"
"A friendly blacksmith who likes to start conversation"
"A tricksy and humorous prankster who loves to laugh"
"The proud leader (or officer) of his guild, who is skilled in combat"
"A fine warrior, he is always for justice!"
No offense to people who's descriptions are like this: I'm fine with a few of these in PS. But when 90% of PS's population has a description that resembles one listed above, that's when I can't take it anymore. I remember a year ago, there was some guy named Xul or something, who would wander around to people asking if they were "the One." Anyone else remember him? Personally, I think that is a great and original RP idea. Just saying that you are a champion of good, or that you like to party, or that you're friendly, is honestly kind of boring if overused.
But really, the point of this topic is that I think it is ok for PS to have evil characters. I don't think everybody should be an evil character. I don't think MOST people should be evil. In fact, I think only around 25% at max should be evil or lawbreakers. But that's not my point. My point is that people need to stop hating the evil characters. Evil is a part of PS rather you like it or not. Deal with it. It's hard enough to play an evil character without haters breathing down my neck, telling me that I suck.
Those few who have evil characters, let's raise our RP chalices and have a toast to pretend hatred! Just remember to keep that hatred in-game only =D
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I hope that's in the OOC description. There should only be what another can see when they look at your char in the RP description.
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Yes, of course it is. That's not what we're talking about here.
Anyone actually have something related to evil characters here?
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You seriously put this one your chars background story and explanations into your description? Sounds boring to me when approaching a char and after checking the description for its appearance I would already know everything possible to know about that one. If your char is evil, why not putting some subtle hints there only, make it intruiging to people who merely catch a glimpse? Lure them? In contrast, if I would put there "You see the most evil one you have ever seen and he would rip you apart with his dark magic within a blink of an eye whenever possible" I wouldnt be surprised to have people.. well, not be very pleased.
You list comments of others, while not telling the prerequisites - did they react like that because your char walked around barking at others he is most awesummist and kickass (while the description might mention Black Flame, evil and whatnot in such a spoiling and dilettante way)? I suppose you get the point, these quotes dont tell a lot, whereas in fact they could show the mistake is on your side.
You played for a couple of years, now changed your characters name, and seriously complain "People don't understand: I don't duel anymore"? Who cares whether you dueled or not, or if you had pwned others by one strike that way - if you want to roleplay do it well. Attempting an evil character, create one others might be seduced by, perhaps one of the most important attributes for a secretive evil char aiming high. Once seduced, captured, have your influence take impact, maybe subtly. Then proceed as you want.
(sorry,I notice your words got me biased already).
As for the list of examples on description you are not fond of, I agree, to my liking they already show too much. Basically the same way, as I understood it, your description fits in.Just saying that you are a champion of good [..] is honestly kind of boring if overused.
Same applies for evil chars, needless to say of course.
Anyone actually have something related to evil characters here?
What do you want to hear? It is all welcome to play an evil char if done properly? Thumbs up?
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Ok, first of all, what the hell?
Do I look like some noob running around saying "I'm gonna shove my sword up your ass and I'm gonna like it because I'm evil?" No. I just like to put a bit of backstory in my description, while also providing some first-glance opinions. If the person reading my description is truly worthy to play an RP game, he/she would take the backstory in mind, but not express the fact that his/her character knows it. All the character would know is that "Kaibane looks shifty, with bloodshot eyes and sometimes plays with a small, black flame that flickers on and off in his hand. He offers you a cold stare in return for yours." And no, that's not my description.
The same does NOT apply to evil chars, because last time I checked, there simply weren't enough of those around to be considered "overused." Most of the good RPers tend to drift over to the side of "good" and "justice." The new RPers are stuck, so if they go "evil" they tend to say "I'm bent on world domination" in the description. After learning a bit more about RP, they switch to the side of good because it is far easier to RP as a law-abiding citizen knight if the game is set in a world that is stuffed full of prancing good people.
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Well sorry, cant tell what do you look like, was merely taking your post into account, no offense intended.
I agree that even in the case of a most spoiling description only the relevant facts should be given to the character approaching, but then again, as you have obviously noticed, you play with human people, and it seems to happen these ones get biased, intentionally or not, caring or not. You still could try to avoid that, raise tension doing so, tell an exciting and creepy story by not revealing important details.
And since for playing evil chars secrecy is more important, apparently playing a "good" character well is less hard than playing an evil one, I agree. The more a well played evil char would be appreciated. Dont get discouraged, keep it up. Those players you consider good and trustable RPers you can open your plans for your char and they wont adapt their chars behaviour. In case of doubt however, I would rather not tell too much, for the same reason I would simply not include any details of that type into a (public) description.
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Finally, someone who understands! I think I have a bit of description changing in order...
Anyone else on the forum own an evil character? Would you like to share your stories or description or something?
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In general, people tend to generalizing... ;)
Don't blame us all. Of course, evil characters are appreciated, they spice up the game.
But to be true, I prefer the smart and reserved diplomat over the mad and violent slayer kind of evil character.
That's my personal taste, though. The warrior heroes may have an opposite one. Fortunately we have many. One for each taste.
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Hehe... maybe when Caraick reads this he will talk about his evil alt, Marsuveus. [Who I happen to think is one of the best evil characters in game right now]
I've run some minor evil characters before, but in my opinion, to make a really good evil character, that has to be the focus. They can't really get developed if they are primarily an alt. I also firmly believe that IC events should be able to dictate the character's growth. They shouldn't be static, but dynamic creatures, who react and change based upon life events, like the death of a best friend changed yours!
My main, Teshia, spends more time with evil characters than she does good characters, and while she's technically "good", you'd have to take that with a grain of salt. She started out completely good, but IC events shifted her to the darker side of things. As the story goes, she was cursed by Marsuveus forcing her to follow Dakkru and the Dark Way, she married Kull of the Cutthroats to protect someone, and grew quite fond of him and began to expand a network of spies and informants until she managed to betray almost everyone she knew. I LOVED running her as evil. She was vicious, sadistic, sneaky and underhanded. She was once mugged, and ended up beating the mugger within an inch of his life, carving the initials of the man she loved into his arm and releasing him, telling him to train and come back when he was worthy of her teachings. As soon as he left, she ordered one of the Cutthroats to kill him for his impertinence. She also ordered the desecration of the Temple of Talad... which only like 2 people know about ICly. <_< [Sorry Talad, please don't smite me!]
But...
All good things must come to an end. X-/ Kull vanished into the wilds [aka had some computer trouble and poofed] and without his evil influence, the only close friends she had left influenced her heavily back to a more... kind... approach. It was the death of her mentor and closest friend, Caraick, that pushed her firmly back into good, and made it so that she cannot really do anything evil anymore. Her life now centers around making him proud of her. *grumbles* So she's gone wimpy. Of course... she still had someone brutally tortured for the suspicion of having harmed Caraick, and just recently killed someone for attacking her future brother in law.
The way I see it, she's Anakin Skywalker. I've tried to play her with that type of outline to her personality. She's not 100% stable, or sane, but she's viciously loyal, and would destroy anything or anyone who harmed those she cares about.
I've never tried to make people ICly like Teshia. In fact, they aren't supposed to really like her. What can I say? When Tesh is good, she's pretty darn good, but when she's bad, she's better. ;)
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maybe you should take your character's history out of his description? it's generally a bad idea to put biographies in there. players will use ooc information icly, and, personally, i prefer to discover character histories through roleplay, not descriptions. that goes for personalities too. those examples you listed go against my idea of a good description too.
if you don't have the stats, you probably shouldn't roleplay your character as being as powerful as you claim he is. laziness doesn't give you the freedom to pretend you're awesome. but, if other players are okay with it, i guess you can roleplay your character being stronger than he really is.
and i've rarely encountered players who are that rude. ::| this game is full of carebears.
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Tesh is that evil? Wow, i'm missing a whole lot about you! Anyway of course we love evil characters because they can create great RP plots, especially the well played ones... I actually started Chessire intending to make her a servant of evil but somewhere in the way my RL personality took over... mostly because of the so many other kind hearted characters in the game that didn't leave enough room for hate to develop i think ;D
But I love putting friend into unrest with several evil alts, it can create many fun situations...
As of why some people hate evil characters I can only answer judging by myself, and the answer is they are simply afraid. Just like me when i started playing many players haven't realised there is no actual danger in a RP and no need for stress about winning or loosing. I think its because in all other MMORPGs the winner gets the reward and the looser is sent at some cemetery far away. Notice how some said how they had stronger skills than you and they could beat you or how they'd bring their guild to chase you down.
I think that eventually everyone realises how fun it is to run around shouting "I got robbed!" or pretending you get cut all over in a fight or many other fun situations that can get more and more spicy with a resourceful player behind the villain ;)
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Yes. Teshia is so evil ... she even hides Tessra from her professor... :detective:
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words
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StupidEvil
I won't raise a chalice to you, I'd be categorized in the stupid evil group.
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Hello Avathius, welcome to forum! :flowers:
Before I start rambling about the topic, I think that it is time for description guidelines to be inforced somehow. It really can't be that difficult. Updating the old roleplaying-guide also might prove helpful. And then there is the issue of characters without any discription whatsoever...
A lot of good points have already be mentioned, though I have to admit that there are evil characters and "evil" characters. I don't want to dissect what's evil, this could be done in another thread if there isn't one already. One needs just as much skill in roleplaying a evil character as in playing a good character, since it's not about the alignment but the character her/him/kraself. And I don't like cardboard characters. I know how difficult it is not to create or play or write a cardboard character, and I can understand that one needs to learn how to roleplay. That's completely fine, and one doesn't need to be a carebare to explain or teach roleplay.
So many complaints concerning roleplay could be resolved, if the players understand how to give their characters some depth and what conflict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_%28narrative%29) is and why it's a good thing for roleplay. If they don't, teach them.
Personally, I like it when players play their characters with depth and in a credible way. Doesn't have to do anything with some of my characters not liking evil characters.
I won't raise a chalice to you, I'd be categorized in the stupid evil group.
You just had an evilgasm (see last panel) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0197.html) having that speech on that fountain. Ever since, you might wanna categorize with this faction. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilIsCool)
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Mate, the problem is your description. People are usually annoyed when they see something either too fictional (i.e. having a dark aura of doom or talking sword) or something too evil (i.e. being hated by everyone [i.e. assuming you are generally known and people actually give 2 cents about you]). These type of things greatly bother some really immature players and you should know that. To me, it simply makes my character laugh and point his finger when you expect him to see/believe what he doesn't.
I play a character that ends up annoying _plenty_ of people due to his antics and lack of respect for others. Still, the characters my character annoys the most are owned by players who are always affable towards me, the player. In fact, some players even told me they had evil characters or interest in creating one.
I wouldn't say you're totally wrong, since there are idiots out there, I'd just say you had bad luck and hate bait.
Also, Jekkar for Octarch.
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Evil chars YAY \\o///me feels a litle lonly in yliakum.
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I play a character that ends up annoying _plenty_ of people due to his antics and lack of respect for others. Still, the characters my character annoys the most are owned by players who are always affable towards me, the player.
I can attest to this. :-[ I adore Sangwa, but that character makes mine want to scream and pull her hair out.
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She also ordered the desecration of the Temple of Talad... which only like 2 people know about ICly. <_< [Sorry Talad, please don't smite me!]
:o
He might not but I might now i dont feel bad about killing you in gossip >:(
The way I see it, she's Anakin Skywalker. I've tried to play her with that type of outline to her personality. She's not 100% stable, or sane, but she's viciously loyal, and would destroy anything or anyone who harmed those she cares about.
Sooooo.......Car wants to marry Anakin????
Evil people make life interesting
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Hehe... maybe when Caraick reads this he will talk about his evil alt, Marsuveus. [Who I happen to think is one of the best evil characters in game right now]
D'awww.... :-[ I'm flattered, and though I may certainly disagree, as I know there's plenty of great evil characters around who are far better RPers than I...
I suppose you all would classify Car. as one of those "ZOMG GOOD GUYZ", but Marshy is most certainly a villain...
With Marsuveus, he was the first alt I created on a separate account, and I've always really enjoyed playing him, though at times, I do feel quite bad about myself ;) What I've got with him is a Ynwnn, which is first of all the scariest lookin' model out there so far :D. Because he's somewhere over 8 feet in height, that gives him his only real advantage when it comes to fighting, besides cunning and surprise, he's only got sheer power and size on his side, he's not an expert swordsman by any means, and is far from skilled with his weapons, falchions and knives. He's skilled enough to shank someone from behind, or at least try and hold them off at close quarters, using his size to his advantage. He's good with Dark Way, and as Tessra, and a small handful of others have seen, he's got one or two nasty little tricks up his sleeve. Because he's so attuned to Dark Way, he's got zero skill for any other way, and a very strong aversion to any sort of Crystal Way.
Without giving away too many spoilers in regards to his past, he's an insatiable, insane, bloodthirsty, maniacal, sadistical, unrespectful, unrelenting, hateful, vengeful, lost soul, and I absolutely love it ;D Because he's in such a depraved state, it makes it very easy to link him in with different RP's, where people are lacking in a villain or "bad guy". Like any other character, there's just certain things that aren't his MO: Slaving, rape, or even most forms of ransoming aren't his style... He's got no desire to slave others, because he has no need for money other than to buy the little that he needs. He's no need for trying to rape someone, because a. Love, or even any watered down form of desire is just so repulsive to him, he's probably just puke if he had to kiss someone out of attraction :P, and b. Me the player finds that sort of thing distasteful. He would, and already has, tried to run several ransomings or kidnappings that lead to ransomings... Mostly, that's out of trying to spite either the ransom-ee, or the one's from whom he's being ransomed, not out of greed of any sort. Again, he would, and has, dumped out tria in the furnace to make a point before.
Again, I'm very flattered that someone finds Marshy to be a good villain, if that's at all the case, I suppose Marshy's done his job :) Sadly, he hasn't seen as much screen time lately as I would have liked... RL has kept me way too busy, and the amount of RP involving Car has also kept him out of the spotlight. Still, I wouldn't trade up the chance to play Marshy for anything, he's always a joy to play.
I can attest to this. :-[ I adore Sangwa, but that character makes mine want to scream and pull her hair out.
I find that character to be one of the most dynamic and well-played characters that I've ever been able to play with. My condolences, Sangwa ;)
And yes, Jekkar for Octarch.
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Not much I can say about evil that hasnt already been said. I think one of the main things that turns people away from the dark side (even without the level bullying) is that the huge amount of 'good guys' will eventually either gang up on you with all the other good guys, or will do it right away via OOC'ly revealing where the said evil event is taking place. Sometimes idc bout that, can't hurt to have a few extra people show up, but other times a HUGE amount show up, or it's just not a good time.
Another repulsion is that it isn't easy being evil. You gotta think up plans of action, and deal with the more you do, the more you'll be known and the harder it will become. Sometimes people who've never even seen you before suddenly know who you are and bleed in the information that you're evil.
I have a 'true' evil alt, whom i'm working on things for, and then my main Travosh is pretty much just a giant prick to anyone who hasn't already put in some effort, or whom he finds interesting enough to bother with.
Racism and hate! Down with the enki regime! \\o//
and sure, Jekkar for Ochtarch. Might as well.
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Isn't Jekkar a menki?
/me agrees with Travosh on down with the enki-regime! \\o// \\o//
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/me agrees with Travosh on down with the enki-regime! \\o// \\o//
Nevah!!! :ban:
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immediately!
enki? :ban: :P
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Nuu!!! /me huggles Weltall until he promises the eternal continuation of the Enki regime!!
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*blushes, totally vanquished by the 'Adani's plot to soften Sangwa'*
Also, let the age of Diaboli begin! (It will, as soon as the models are out there.)
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*blushes, totally vanquished by the 'Adani's plot to soften Sangwa'*
Also, let the age of Diaboli begin! (It will, as soon as the models are out there.)
Get in line! Us hammerwielders are next; we can't practice brotherhood and hammerswinging without epic models can we?
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You can't be serious! Hammerwielders are just fatter, taller dwarves. There's no epicness to that.
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She has you there Ardoin.
Who do you guy's think is the race most suited to be evil? Not on looks, just racial ability.
Enki do not count, because i'm asking the question.
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*blushes, totally vanquished by the 'Adani's plot to soften Sangwa'*
Also, let the age of Diaboli begin! (It will, as soon as the models are out there.)
/me points out that even if a Diaboli blushed, you really wouldn't be able to tell very well.
And honestly... I think Lemurs, with their incredible aloofness, and Diaboli, with their hedonism, make some of the best profiled evil characters. That being said, I think a good player can make any race just as evil, if they are smart enough to go with their race's traits and use the Dark Side of the Force.
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I think I've been pretty successfully evil. I don't do kidnapping or anything like that but, I've had others do it for me. And generally, people like my character, he takes a command role whenever there is a particularly strong evil around and coordinates with people to try and topple it while sending his minions to try and contact the evil and work something out with them.
I guess he's not exactly evil but, he wants power and he doesn't really let anything get in the way. At the moment though, the best way to get power is just to be friends with everybody xP Still he finds ways.
That said, many people try to hate him because he does 'seem' evil. But they generally end up being friends.
His vast depots of paranoia do get in the way some times, though. Vast...Depots. But I don't think he's hated. After I almost gave Zorbels true death we were still friends.