PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Frois on February 28, 2011, 08:49:02 am
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Hello everyone. I am here now because I have met so many evil wannabes who don't even seem to comprehend the concept of evil. Now I don't wish for them to feel insulted, all I am saying is that they are probably good natured people who have a hard time imagining themselves in the place of a person of evil and thus can't roleplay evil properly.
So I figured I should come here and post a few guidelines (they may not be 100% accurate, these are from my sight on the matter if you have complaints I'll be glad to address them so long as they are respectful) on how to roleplay an evil character
First step is the creation of the character (obviously) but when you make him/her what kind of evil are they?
Are they a creature of pure evil that wishes destruction upon the land for the sheer pleasure of looking at the suffering faces and the burning of the corpses?
Are they evil because they have suffered an injustice such that they now desire to share their pain to the rest of the world?
Are they psychopaths who simply can't help but kill everyone for the thrill?
the list goes on.
Before you chose your type of evil make sure you have their personality set. For this is what will decide which type of evil they are.
Now if you are a creature of pure evil it is more than likely that you will not reveal yourself as such. Yes you may hide in shadows and generally avoid being seen but you won’t approach people with an air of evil around you. Many would actually be very good talkers and masters at sweet talking, with high charisma and a skill at getting people into their schemes.
This kind of evil is mostly made up of people with high intelligence. Their cunning allows them to find a way to achieve their ultimate plan by employing all the resources they have at their disposal. They know that if they are cough they will be sentenced to death and thus they will avoid public publicity. They will even get people who know silenced (but beware if they already spoke it is likely that it would raise suspicions)
The evil that suffered from injustice will do it in a twisted sense of honour or justice. They would probably say something like ‘’There is so much suffering in this world and yet they all go about their daily lives as if nothing was going on. They will soon know the suffering of those they ignored all these years! ‘’ They are usually smart ones too and rather than smooth talking people into their plans they will attract them by using the concept of ‘’True’’ or ‘’divine’’ justice to convince them.
Although this can count as smooth talking there is a difference as pure evil would usually offer something in return, often what the person desires most, but they would also often discard that person once they lost their purpose
Those ‘’psychopaths’’ are harder to play than you think, You’d expect it’s just a ‘’walk in and slash everyone to bits’’ kind of thing but not quite. They do love to kill and torture or any combination of twisted desires but they will always seek the thrill of it so they would normally begin small like rape (May seem like a big thing but compared to being tortured for days and then murdered in cold blood it’s much preferable) and steadily grow to the point where they will play games with their victims, An example would be to kidnap them, bring them in the wilderness and give them time to run away before chasseing them.
Although I did give some guidelines these don’t apply to all, there is an infinite amount of types of ‘’evil’’ just as there is of ‘’good’’ But generally: Evil will keep hidden. Only fools would go out and claim to be evil when the sentence is a all expenses paid vacation to the crystal with no return ticket.
Those that claim to be evil will be pests and nuisances but can be dealt with easily. Read their desc and take what your character would SEE in the amount of time they look and how much attention they pay (Do not take the whole thing. Nobody can see a whole person’s every detail all at once, it’s impossible, brains aren’t meant to take in that much information at once.) Then go to a guard IG and contact a gm through the whisper tab. Report to the guard that you saw a Suspicious person (I can’t stress the suspicious enough, many would say ‘’I saw somebody evil!’’ although if it is in your character’s personality to jump to conclusions go right ahead, follow your roleplay before my guidelines) And there you go, you should especially watch for those who seem like nice guys and seem just too friendly.
What you can see is annoying, what you can not is frightening.
I hope this will help many of you roleplay an evil character, I hope maybe our evil masterminds may cross paths and perhaps form an alliance :P that would be epic. If you have any questions or mistakes I made feel free to reply or send a PM but make sure it’s polite, I will disregard anything that isn’t polite (I don’t mind a bit of chat cussing like ‘’wtf’’ but don’t insult me or cuss directly at me)
Until next time
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Thanks.
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you shouldn't advise rape... that's not allowed. at all. i think.
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Rape and torture in RP is pathetic and speaks volumes about those who "dream" about it. Pathetic.
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To keep in relation to the original post, I would like to remind the female players among us that there is also a guide written for the aspiring evil woman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_B%C3%A1thory
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No - there will not be vampires in Yliakum. This topic had been closed already.
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If you want this to be a guide, then you should stress the aspect of understanding principles like motivation and so on. You focus on the "typical" evil here without giving examples from works of fiction which shouldn't be so hard. Also, you need to understand what evil is - and what is just a terrible cliché.
I also strongly suggest everybody to stay away from playing true psychopaths - and leave the whole getting into the mindset of a psychopath to psychologists and those who have the proper education to do so.
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I also strongly suggest everybody to stay away from playing true psychopaths
I rather respect Rinenud and Parallo.
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Righteous. You blame society for your hurt, but why not look in the mirror once in a while and see your own soul. We're ready man. You think yourself so worthy, well here's a tip for you; stop playing the pretend game and do some soul-searching.
Who shot the sheriff? I did. I am great, I am mighty and enlightened. Your silent soldiers are as silent as dust in the wind... they are dust, amigo.
You and Parallo deem yourself so worthy and studious, though none care for your neo-avant garde ramblings. You are senseless fools caught up in your own self-praise. Narcissism is a skill you both seem to practise well. I hope it makes you happy in life. I will cary on with my sober life, teaching my apprentices in the ways of sensibility.
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The subject of today's topic.
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I have to admit I did forget to write about motivations and I did not post any examples from works of fiction, but the later was on purpose the reason is: Copying a character of fiction is not roleplay. If I gave the example of anibal lector then many players might start being cannibals and so on. Don't copy instead come up with your own evil character.
As for rape I am aware that it is forbidden but you don't have to go in details. Agree with the player (OOC with brackets) that your character raped their's and there shouldn't be a problem, like it or not rapes happened even if the best of societies we've had. And they happened very frequently in medieval time. As for torture it's not forbidden but then again you could simply spend some time in the area where you would torture your victim and then you could just talk OOC with the player to say how you tortured their character and so.
I personally struggle to play my evil character since I'm good natured and whenever I do something evil (Even to a NPC) I feel terrible, so I understand that most won't like being tortured or raped IC but there is nothing wrong with saying "Hey can we skip the details?"
Now as for the psychopaths I do NOT recommend playing one, it’s not that hard for a person to turn into one if they think like one even for a little bit, Being sadistic in roleplay can easily be transferred to reality, I simply put it there because they exist and thus are a possibility in roleplay, but if you play one do it with caution. And don’t hesitate to see a psychologist while you do to make sure your not turning in one and if anything changes take a break or even perma kill him
Okay the concept of evil itself is a complex one for it changes regarding of the situation and the person you ask. For example fighting for vengeance, those doing so will call it justice or right, they may know it’s wrong but they will still follow it to repay the debt. But others (especially the ones who are the target of this vengeance) will call it evil or wrong. Depending on the situation and on who you are the concept of evil may change greatly.
Now for motivations a great thing to add and thanks for mentioning it.
Greed: Some people may become evil so to satisfy their greed, they wish to own everything and won’t hesitate to do anything to obtain it.
Power: Along the lines of Greed, someone could desire the acquire powers beyond that of mere mortals and thus they will experiment on humans to develop new skills and other things. Going through all means necessary to obtain their desired power
Thrill: Many psychopaths do it for that, The thrill of having the law running after you, having to hide in the shadows and having to sneak on your unsuspecting victims. The excitement of the hunter and the hunted combined in one (You can play that without being a psychopath, and again: if you play one be careful not to be affected by him/her)
Lust: Although rape is forbidden (due to the heavy impact it has on a person’s mind) It can be roleplayed by simply saying ‘’My character raped yours’’ of course make sure you and the other have planned whether it’s successful or not, but don’t go into the details. So many rapists do it for lust, to satisfy sexual fantasies, sexual frustration and the such. Again, careful while playing that not to let it stain your own self
If I forgot any motivation please mention it and I shall add on.
WARNING: When I say to be careful not to let your character change you it is NOT made up, there have been several cases over the years of people changing because of their roleplay, even cases of Dungeons & Dragons where if a character died they would kill the player in the same way. Roleplay is all about becoming the character so if you ‘’merge’’ with them well enough that you forget your own self even for a moment it is possible that their personality stains yours, doing so repeatedly can cause you to change.
So it is perfectly fine if you say OOC ‘’I’ll be right back, I need to clear my mind a bit’’ instead of carrying on and getting too into it. Make sure you never make a character into something you couldn’t control in yourself. And especially careful if your character is based on a inner darkness you repress, this can make it jump to the surface so make sure you are going to be able to control the evil of your character.
If I forgot anything, or if you have questions ask them in replies I’ll be happy to answer J
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Anything to make planeshift even more fun :) After all it's boring without people genuinely trying to take over the world
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I suppose I could, I won't give details however since this is not a very private discussion and even if it was I wouldn't give most details.
As for torture what could be done is agreeing on what has been done without roleplaying it, like making a story a conversation on that could go "Okay so what if at this point my character had dislocated your knee cap?" keeping it jovial and making a few jokes can make it far less of a dark conversation and keep people from becoming depressed. If you have seen the movie "Batman the dark knight" (I'm not sure of the title) The man who played the joker actually committed suicide because his role was so dark it got him depressed. In the same sense playing a dark character in a rpg can cause the same reaction, which is why it is extremely rare to find games where you play an evil character and when you do find one your character usualy has good noble motives behind it to lessen the darkness attached to his actions.
As for the rape... Well this is even more touchy, I would recommend just leaving it at a general idea like "Character Y raped character X" Nothing more and if you need to explain what happened in a rp situation simply play around with the mechanics like typing: "/me explains what has happened in great details" This can allow for a roleplay that would prevent one from actually experiencing the humiliation of the actual act. Although it is hard to prove (not to mention immoral) There are lots of signs that say that rape is actually worst than torture as far as the impact on the victim.
Torture will have a heavy impact on one’s body, this is mostly what gets tortured especially by novices who don’t understand how to torture someone (again, here I’ll omit details so to avoid torture being conducted in real life using proven methods) There also is psychological torture and the most effective is the combination of both, like plunging a person’s head in a bucket of ice cold water, this can be extremely terrifying and when you pull the person out they can eventually start believing you are saving them. The combination of the understanding of the mind and body of the victim is what makes torture so effective, But for a victim who stood torture and eventually escaped or got saved or for some reason the torture stops will feel pride in the fact that they handled it. They’ll be in pain, angry and humiliated maybe even sad but deep inside they’ll be proud thinking something like ‘’I haven’t said a word!’’ even if they spoke it could be ‘’I’m sorry friends I couldn’t hold it, but I lasted as long as I could’’ learning one’s limits is usually a great source of pride.
As for the rape… Well the rape is harder to explain for most of the time it isn’t meant to cause pain or suffering, it’s usually to satisfy sexual urges that can’t be satisfied otherwise. What it causes in the victim is a vast area. Some of the things are: A feeling of dirtiness; A rape victim will feel soiled and tainted by their rapist they will hate themselves, their bodies and their life because they’ll feel impure. It can cause insecurity; They could feel vulnerable since someone dominated them in such an obvious way. And so on, There is so much that it causes and all on the psychological level, I myself am not a woman and have never been raped, in fact no one ever had an edge on me in any situation apart from my mother (which is natural) so I can’t even begin to imagine what it must be like to feel so weak, helpless and tainted. Truth is I handle physical pain with great skill and I never even got phased by mental torture (Well not necessarily torture but assault would be more accurate) But I do think that if I were to be raped, I would most likely commit suicide hoping it would clean me. (Yes that is my personal belief, I do NOT recommend this course of action to any rape victim, regardless of how bad it feels, I can’t say I know thus I won’t say I understand but think of what you would make your friends and loved ones endure, this kept me going a very long time while I was depressed)
So in terms of torture I recommend you ask the player OOC how comfortable they are with roleplaying, Hardcore roleplayers will always do it the whole thing, so make sure they are comfortable and not just hardcore roleplayers. As for the rape keep it as general as possible so the player will not suffer it. I can imagine to a point how it feels and I swear I hate it the feeling of disgust in one’s self is unbearable. And a proud person like me would rather die than feel such humiliation (again, death is not the answer to anything, neither yours nor another’s death)
Rape is (I believe) forbidden as by roleplay rules, if it isn’t it should be. This is for the good reason that even if roleplayed it can bring back bad memories for victims and/or make a person suffer the humiliation (even if less than being actually raped) so keep is vague, no details and make sure that no matter what you do, the moment you start performing some evil action, make sure that the players you are involved with are comfortable with details and how much they are comfortable with.
Also, a rape does not take 5 seconds to occur so if you ever fall in such a situation in game (let us all hope not) you can agree how long it’ll last and simply talk OOC in whisper so not to feel awkward or bad and once done resume the rp from there. Remember: No matter what there is always a way to go around normal restrictions to make things go smoother and be less painful, (No I am NOT making an innuendo…) I hope this helps, I’ll gladly add on in the future should anyone request something, I hope I am being useful to all of you. Have fun in game and let’s hope your never on the bad end of these two situations
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I want to try it too:
"You two are like cherries on a tree, thinking you're apart when you're actually hanging together, waiting to decay. I'm the seed within and without, I'm what remains after you're eaten and I'm what eats. Not the tissue, but the stuff of life itself, its process.
Because, unlike you who were or believe you shall be, I actually am. And while you waste time with the how, who and what, I'm earning it without question."
Am I doing it right?
Frois, Rinenud's just pulling your leg like a cruel bum. I couldn't sit and watch.
Anyway, we can make characters be more or less evil, but the general guidelines are the same for every type of character. Create a personality, create a background, base it on stuff you know.
Following stricter guidelines (based on motivations) for this and that type of character is exactly what makes some characters pretty poor and shallow: monotony. If everyone had the same idea of what a cool evil character is, then we would all have Jekkars around and a game as boring as a swamp. If everyone thinks a character can only be evil because of an actual definite reason, then the only difference would be we'd all play raped Jekkars.
It's good that some people make very different characters and that some of them just happen to be retards and not actually evil, it's good that some characters have reasons to be evil and others don't, even if the players have the intention or not. It's just not cool when people don't even try and end up ruining things for everyone with overworked clichés or obvious nothings. The rest is just about different levels of effort and success.
I'd advise a player not to build his character based on the Evil vs Good choice, but rather on what type of action he wants to see: intrigue, war, romance, etc. Afterwards the resulting background and personality should be fit to belong to one of those blurry notions with pride.
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As for the rape… Well the rape is harder to explain for most of the time it isn’t meant to cause pain or suffering, it’s usually to satisfy sexual urges that can’t be satisfied otherwise.
Wrong. No offense, but this is dead wrong. Rape is rarely about sexual urges, and much more often about dominance and the assertion of authority over the victim. But there is no need to roleplay rape, nor would I consider it a good idea to play a rapist ICly.
Someone posted something a while back regarding the various types of evil [chaotic, etc] that I found to be very helpful. But honestly... I've never set out to make my characters evil or good. I let the society around them make them they way they become for me, and their actions are not so easily defined as some of these guidelines you've posed. I think too, you might consider that some evil characters are driven by multiple motives.
[And I wish I knew Jekkar or Rinenud in game... but Sangwa is totally the man.]
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Agreed, and I knew he was pulling my leg but it did show that I forgot to mention stuff, which I do alot. And ''guidelines" Are only there to give an idea, anyone can make anything they want out of it, I made them only so that if they feel like being evil (I made my character just for the sake of playing an evil one, to try it out) but dunno how they could have ideas, My character fits none of these to be honest and is a combination of alot of those. I simply wanted to show people a few things so they would have a bit more of an idea of what they could do, once they have a view on the matter, and as they read they can probably come up with ideas, in fact I'd personally be coming up with about 7 or 8 ideas for characters from reading these guidelines.
So basically I made that to bring inspiration to the hearts of those inspiring evil doers. I agree if they follow these guidelines strictly it'd be boring as heck but if they are the slightest bit immaginative they can pick details from here and there and make their own cool custom type evil character. Roleplay is all about taking things we know and using them in new ways to make an awesome story so, sangwa, these are only ideas I have which I wanted people to see so they could be inspired and maybe use in a way or another, regardless of wether it's to sprout an idea of their own, or to guide themselvs a bit. as long as I'm helpful i'm happy and well even if the guidelines themselvs are useless the fact I wrote this got you to talk about the fact they shouldn't be followed, and players who see this will read your post and thus know not to follow the guidelines and rather make their own.
And Tessra, sorry for getting this wrong, I am usualy a good guy and don't feel these kinds of needs (neither sexual urges nor the need to asert dominance) so I couldn't tell. In fact I tend to stay away from evil subjects trying to supress my own darkness and not wanting to let it loose (I know it's unhealthy but I do it that way and not gonna change) So thanks for clearing that up.
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There is something I don't quite understand about people playing evil characters. We aren't our characters. We aren't playing ourselves or our own urges. We are playing someone who in theory should be entirely different from us. When my character tortures someone, or murders someone, I don't feel guilt about it. It isn't *me* doing it. It's a pixellated being who has their own sense of morality and ethics, which should be comepletely different from my own.
Some people tend to feel bad about "getting in character." Maybe I'm just too evil in real life. :whistling: But I don't get upset about the actions my character takes, nor do I feel psychotic when my character acts a bit like a psychopath. The only time I ever get upset about something my character does is if his/her/kra's actions cause another *player* to become upset. This is a game, and should be fun.
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Yes I see your point, we shouldn't be affected by what our characters do but I'm not sure in other people's case but personally when I play my character I completely forget my own self and become the character, my mind works like his/her's/kra's and I now am the character, I of course know it's only a game and a character but my personality adapts, this is why I can roleplay so many characters (not at once but I have several that I use alot) while keeping rp smooth and never mixing OOC with IC
Alot of people who read alot of novels (in my case mostly medieval fantasy novels) will know what I'm talking about, I get so cought up in the book (or game) that I share the character's pains, joys and desires. Same happens when I watch anime I do get influenced by the character's actions. Although this always only result in small variations in my main personality it does make me feel sadness when my favorite character dies (Honestly this is truly pathetic but when my favorite character in my favorite anime of all times died I felt depressed for over a month, well I was on the edge of depression I guess it pushed me over lol)
maybe you simply are one of those who find the midle in RPGs, you are enough in character to allow smooth rp while preventing negative repercutions on yourself, as for others some can't go IC enough so their RP is sometimes inconcistent or chaotic. and as for those like me, (assuming I'm not alone) we get IC too much and thus override our personalyties with that of our character. then once done we return to a backup which got currupted (I rarely make annalogies with electronics but I've been messing with my two computers lately so that's what's mainly in my head XD)
It is hard to find the middle between too IC and not enough IC, maybe you could post a topic to say how you do it it could be interesting and useful.
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I truly doubt you understand the full extent of suffering torture, and as for delving within my inner darkness I will not let anyone do that, in fact I don't myself. Being a proud person means I also refuse to be imperfect (yes I am that proud.... which I also repress. odd in a way) besides this is not the reason this topic was made and thus I would require that you stop trying. This topic is so we discuss how to roleplay an evil character. not to undo the chains on one's inner darkness. Which , by the way, can be a really bad thing.
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Ninja assassin isn't an anime...
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huh I don't even get what you just said, regardless from this point on I will disregard anything you say since it is off topic
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keep in mind, no matter what type of character you play, that people always choose to do what they sincerely believe is the right thing to do. it is society that deems someone good or evil, a hero or a villain. even the most universally accepted as pure evil historical figures (your hitlers, stalins, caligulas, pol pots, etc.) acted in what they believed was the right. and they had followers, supporters, then and even now. nobody acts on what they think is an evil or bad choice. we all try to do what we think is good, it's just that some people are twisted enough to believe that murder, rape, theft, even genocide are the right and good choices. nobody thinks of themself as a villain, everybody thinks of themself as the hero. even the joker thinks that he's the hero and batman is the villain.
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very true, in the real world nobody claims to be evil (those that do are not much of a threat) and only in movies, on tv and in books do people do things only for the sake of destroying everything (there may be a few real world cases but so rare they don't really count) We all act on our own beliefs of what is good or wrong, there is no ultimate rule and even law doesn't care wether it's right or wrong, even if you save lives by killing someone you can still go to jail for life (I think this is BS but I can't do anything about it)
Even Hitler had good motives; yes his method was way wrong since it involved so many dying but the purification of the human race does sound good, but then again if you want to cleans all that is wrong you might very well blow up the whole univers, since wrong is everywhere where there is right
It's very important, as you said, to know that even pure evil thinks it's good. And yes the joker did concider batman to be the villain as all "evil" think those against them are evil "I am justice and you who try and interfeer you are truly evil" (Quote from Death Note)
In fact I'm certain that a character that would do evil just for the sake of doing evil would be boring (Mine has yet to make a big move, since I have to raise my stats because most will refuse to bow to roleplay powers regardless of how much sense there is in my char's backstory) but he has a plan which sounds awesome, I mean his ways are wrong but his plans are awesome. Anyways getting off topic and revealing things about future RPs :P
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Look what I'm dealing with, man. I'm dealing with fools and trolls. I'm dealing with soft targets, and it's just strafing runs in my underwear before my first cup of coffee … they lay down with their ugly wives and their ugly children and just look at their loser lives and then they look at me and say, 'I can't process it.' Well, no, and you never will! Stop trying! Just sit back and enjoy the show.
Charlie Sheen. :P
Don't be ripping off that crazy drughead. XD
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what the hell is an inner darkness?
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just the name I use for the "evil" or "darkness" people repress, jealousy, lust, glutony, greed. That kind of thing, when people repress enough of it it becomes a burden and can be called "an inner evil" or "inner darkness" it's really just a name for the concept of darkness within light.
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you mean a deadly sin? a vice?
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well sort of, let's take for example a model worker, He worked at the same place for years and his life is boring but everyday he is being harrased by his boss, his boss keeps saying that his work is mediocre and the such. Well the worker won't ever say it out loud but inside he'll be brewing hatred and anger towards his boss. This is that worker's inner darkness, if it's left to gather it can explode and make the man come into the office with a weapon and start shooting everyone.
If he exposes it to someone and that person doesn't listen or even critiscises the man then the rage will be fueled and spread on more people. if it is listenned to and people give him support it will be managed, inside He'll always hate the man even if he claims not to.
This is what I mean by inner darkness, although it's not always rage it usualy evolvs into pure rage for X or Y reason
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The man's rage doesn't shoot anyone. No matter what his state of mind, he chooses to do that. He has to make the mental decision to take certain actions that lead to other actions. He is not a victim. He makes a choice. Seeing it as anything else is allowing the evil to manipulate you. Its interesting to see so many romantic takes on evil. Evil in real life is not so interesting.
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What about forum rage? Imagine this purely hypothetical scenario: a poster posts ludicrous message after message, so ludicrous that one doubts the sanity of the poster. The poster clearly has psychological issues, but with each post one feesl one's tolerance being stretched that little bit further. Could one not snap, lose one's reason and iindulge in some murderous vendetta against the poster?
Two typos in one paragraph, I shall treasure this post always.
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@verden, there are psychological disorders that cause people to commit evil crimes, whether they wanted to or not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman example!
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Rinenud's losing market value...
It's no use discussing psychology with anyone who hasn't studied it at all. There are tons of people that believe that we can all choose what to think and what to feel. Truth is all your thoughts and demeanors are dictated by chemical reactions which can be affected by genetic or environmental issues. Saying a depressed (talking about pathology and not the mundane meaning) person can choose to be happy is just as smart as saying a blind man should see just because he has eye balls. Saying that a person with rage issues is able to choose what it does is just as smart. There are genetic reasons for people to be more prone to this and that feeling and therefore to undergo this and that action. You say we all choose everything. I say a "choice" only happens subjectively and therefore we must see it in the optic of the object: does the object perceive the choice or not? Crazy (the word's unethical, I know) people don't.
Things aren't as disgustingly simple as some of you make them look. And that's why I don't like overworked character backgrounds and personalities, because you end up adding so much formulas and rules to it that it ends up looking plastic. Like those "beautiful" models which all look alike.
Genetics and environment are so deeply connected that it gets hard to determine what is what at the edges. Different people under the same conditions might respond differently, or not. It's barely predictable, because it contains so many factors it becomes what we call random.
Spontaneity is what compensates this lack of precision and it's exactly what experienced players have that beginners don't (despite their knowledge of human behaviour). It's a sort of intuition you earn with playing, not just by knowing your own emotions, but by experimenting with emotions you know of and improving your approach on them based on other players' feedback.
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Even someone who is insane must make a basic decision to act on some compulsion. Those who follow some different take on it are being manipulated by criminals who have learned that clueless people can be taught to treat them as victims rather than transgressors. The inability to assign blame to a person and their choices is a fallacy that has been propagated by those who don't want to admit that everyone carries blame for anything that they do. It is manipulation and mind control and it does not work in reality. If you are so keen on not blaming people for their choices, there are many people released from prison every year that were obviously victims of their environment. Please feel free to invite them to come live with you for a while so that you can prove your ideas on this.
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At least read what I go through the trouble of typing, if you want to reply to it.
Instead of saying (in your fashion) that no one is accountable for their choices, I said that it depends on whether people perceive this choice or not. That's how law deals with the problem. If it's proved the person didn't perceive a choice (i.e. "temporarily/permanent madness") then people aren't guilty. I'm not telling you my opinion, I'm telling what the current convention says for this area. When you get a country of your own, you can establish whatever convention you want. For now, you'll have to bear with me.
Also, you don't make a choice to act compulsively. You have a compulsive attitude (built by random experience) towards a subject and that might influence your choice. That's actually how that concept works. There are different degrees of compulsion and some border pathology. It's up to experts (not you, not me) to decide which go over that border and which are behind it.
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Certainly. Your eyes saw the information I so wisely displayed in front of you, ,triggering some electrical impulses and chemical reactions within your tight skull. We call it analyzing information. These impulses are influenced by previous similar reactions, which combined with the present ones lead to even some more of these reactions (which we know exist but we can't quantify or specify results yet, because we do not know how the "reading" mechanism works). These reactions make you feel the need to look witty and so, respecting the extent of your intellect, the result was your previous post.
There you go.
Everyone thinks they know how the mind works, just because they have one. Very few go to the trouble of actually investigating it and these few are unfortunately unable to exercise their knowledge with the other part of the community, whose philosophy of life seems to override the reasonable.
What matters here is not the above theories, which are well explained and written by this piece of heaven you all got to know. What matters is what I said about applying human behaviour knowledge in roleplay and how its results pale in front of a trained intuition.
My guidelines: follow any general RP how to, give it a try in game, listen to opinions, profit.
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Not upset... It's just that it's hard to explain 2+2. Anyway, what do you think about my idea about the topic?
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interesting.
No you won't be able to create a character and be the aura of ultimate evil walking through the plaza.
But the evil you talk about is psychopaths, they don't have to be mental. There are many kinds of evil that's true and what someone should do when wanting to play an evil character (any character) is to define their personality, read it over and think if he would be evil.
this is an example of someone evil
someone who's highly selfish
big ego
highly set on accomplishing things in life
high belief in his beliefs
careless about everything but his own interests
doesn't believe in the relationship to other people (base on his own personality that everyone to their own)
which also gives him some trust issues
bad social skills
believes in anarchy
this could be a potential evil character, since he spends time only with himself he has a lot of time on his hands, and he's very set on accomplishing things in his life. He could then learn the art of being a skilled assassin taking out leaders of society.
Having an understanding of psychology is a great asset when you want to create an evil personality
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The only evil that PlaneShift really lends itself to is the murderers and dark magicians. And even then, they are generally dealt with quickly by vigilantes. The only way true, interesting evil will ever grace Yliakum is if there are guards and officials, both of which can be corrupted. NPCs are great, but they can't react. If I kill somebody next to Jefecra, then I'll RP going to jail. But, I -always- know where he is. I know where every guard is. Added to which, I could also RP having bribed him in advance or some such (maybe not Jefecra but, you get the idea).
Planeshift needs a player government in order to thrive. It's very hard to RP in a world where all the most important people never move and can't understand English.
As for RPing evil in today's Yliakum. If you're a murderer/kidnapper or what not, you'll get vigilanted, congrats. Generally, the only way to be continuously successful as somebody Evil is to come off as good. It's a PR campaign; in stead of walking the fine line of the law you walk the fine line of the vigilantes opinions.
Funny enough, the true evil in Hydlaa are those who kill the baddies time and time again.
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Wow it's honestly the first time in my life that I see people arguing by hiding the insults within biological talks... Wow! Anyways as for "All thoughts and actions are dictated by chemical reactions" This is not just a made up idea it's a proven fact, the brain is a bio-chemical computer and is too complex for today's science to explain completely. Also these guidelines I offered were for beginners, those who are new to rp entirely. Anyone who has any kind of experience will have met many evil characters and know how to use them besides when you act out your character's action you don't give a **** about if he's evil or just all you do is act, this is rp.
These were examples because, as previously said, all bad guys get vigilanted away and also a government made of NPCs who can't even tell you where is what is pointless and there may as well be no government and players would simply replace it with their own roleplay, the strong would lead the weak eventually leading to struggles of power, evil, chaos destruction etc untill a brave hero rallies the people and overthrows this government... And so on.
I repeat that those guidelines were for rp newbies. Not pros. I personally don't even need to have a basis to make my character he'll be shaped by how the first rp with him is done (my main was made that way, based on the first rp and the reactions that came instinctively without being my own choices was what made his personality.) Now if you are not happy with the guidelines you can say that it's not good to adhere to "rp rules" and to simply stop there, no need to start a debate on wether or not the human thoughts are nothing more than chemical reactions and jolts of electricity (a F****** FACT!)....
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Do not forget Rineud, Charlie is also a warlock with Madonna's DNA.
And i agree with the evil people who are obviously evil are vigilanted away right quickly without a PR campaign. And even those with it need to be careful OOC, as a TON of people will 'bleed in' this information to their characters, and you get vigilanted.
The most successfull evil people are either extremely tight lipped OOC and IC, or know all the frequent vigilantes from a good account and ask them to not suddenly gain omnipotence. As far as ive seen.
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I can honestly and 100% truthfully say that Phantom, Rinenud and Sangwa are my heroes, and I spend hours emotionally flogging myself over the fact that I will never be so skilled and verbose, yet witty and charmingly cunning at the same time.
As to the biological argument, its quite well studied the effects of certain neurotransmitters on both decision making, as well as consequence realization and remorse. One day, if I can be arsed, I'll look up the results of some of the studies conducted on known sociopaths. There is, if I remember correctly, a noticeable difference in the levels of serotonin and dopamine in those individuals who seem to show a significant lack of "morality."
Even beyond that, a lack of basic neurotransmitters in the brain, i.e. those which are present universally at synapses, would cause there to be no processing of information such as the two statements regarding mortality and Socrates, at many levels. Without these chemicals, one would not be able to integrate the electrical impulse at the primary visual center, nor shift it to the visual association area of the cortex, as well as the numerous other known functional areas, such as the prefrontal for analysis and decision making. So, one would not even be able to make it to the "thinking" stage about said statements to even begin to draw conclusions without said chemicals.
More to the point however, it is a sad fact that most evil villains are indeed vigilante-d in a most ridiculous fashion. There have been a few RPs I have been in where to play my character true to form, she would have intervened and stopped the murder of some other poor, unfortunate soul. But that would have been no fun as far as the RP was concerned. So instead, with about as much feeling and emotion as a 14 day old corpse, she began to try to pull the murderer away. [Read that as: help, help, oh won't someone help..is that a butterfly? I think it is... what a lovely butterfly... oops, that poor guy died while I was over here.] Which while being just a smidge OOC for my character, allowed the RP to continue in a way that was more beneficial to the scumbag.
Someone should start a Villain Protection Agency. Seriously, let's all exercise that frontal lobe and try a little common sense. If you break your toys, you won't have any left to play with. ;)
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I can honestly and 100% truthfully say that Phantom, Rinenud and Sangwa are my heroes
The interesting thing is that I'm a hero of all three of them!
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I remember hearing/seeing someone say(Can't remember who) that the best type of 'evil' character is most often the 'grey' kind. I whole-heartedly agree with this. People tend not to be completely evil or good. Most likely a little of both in everyone the reasoning is up to the player. Also, I'd like to see more people that are simply not nice to others in Yliakum... There is so much of this in real life that it is unrealistic that everybody is nice and friendly. Or at least quiet-but-friendly. If this doesn't make any sense, don't worry, hehe I'm realy tired right now and my thoughts are astray.
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Mekora you are totally right, the number of people who are just mean or not nice is far too few, there is nowhere near a descent amount of the "bad" side of society in Yliakum.
And Tessra, my guild does offer their services in the field of protection (visit the forum of "The shadow Hand" for more information) although it is not written as an official service we do provide it, given a certain price is met ;P
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I remember hearing/seeing someone say(Can't remember who) that the best type of 'evil' character is most often the 'grey' kind. I whole-heartedly agree with this. People tend not to be completely evil or good. Most likely a little of both in everyone the reasoning is up to the player. Also, I'd like to see more people that are simply not nice to others in Yliakum... There is so much of this in real life that it is unrealistic that everybody is nice and friendly. Or at least quiet-but-friendly. If this doesn't make any sense, don't worry, hehe I'm realy tired right now and my thoughts are astray.
That was me.
I try to stick to those principles when I play my character. I find you can entertain yourself and others more appropriately if you take a more "conservative" approach and catch them off-guard by doing things they're confused about.
There's no reason to play somone truly evil. Lawyers, politicians, salesmen have their way of screwing over people as well.
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It's not hard to understand that mammals are better with language because they have a developed neocortex and that humans are better at language than other mammals because their neocortex is even better developed than them. There are scientific articles that make the correlation, I think. It's just hard to explain the processes that happen within this neocortex (and without) when I haven't studied it that deep and when the scientific field itself isn't developed to that point.
And even if it was so, it'd be hard to tell it to someone who probably believe it's magic that produces thoughts.
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I can see you learned. That's good enough, don't need to admit it.
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If telling you a brain is responsible for thoughts and communication is not enough to explain why you had a thought and communicated it... Then you're right. I'm talking to myself.
Hence why I edited my previous post.
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... Can you guys please stop arguing? This is WAY off topic. so please unless you wish to discuss ways that new roleplayers can rp their characters as an "evil" sort (Yes I did only give examples for super evils, but there are less evil ones) then please don't argue. do that through the use of PMs or find somewhere where it'll actually be welcomed.
Thank you for understanding
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I stopped reading your posts 5 posts ago. besides arguements that are as pointless as this one are not welcome anywhere, if it had a valid purpose I would even welcome it but as to wether the human mind is the result of chemical reactions or something greater is irrelevant as to how a character will be played out. So it IS off topic
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8) what was the topic again. oh yeah evil character's or something nice idea though
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The other part of this problem is that playing "evil" in a game that is based upon character progression is like positing a negative. Evil is destructive and regressive. It does not give a fig about MMO's or RP, so any "evil" in this game ultimately feels lame. The lameness prevents many from actively trying to play evil characters, and leads to these sorts of discussions here, again and again. Evil has to be accomplished in PS through settings and OOC mechanisms, the player characters can't do it sincerely enough to be taken seriously. Give one GM permadeath powers and let them go psycho IG, that would be the closest to true evil that we could have here.
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I think you're wrong. You just think "Evil" = "World Domination" or that it has to exist in the player so it can exist in-game (i.e. if player is evil he doesn't play MMORPGs). That's far from truth.
Your character can be evil in PS, he can't just dominate the world. He can harm people for his personal gains, it's easy and it's daily done. Another thing that should be taken into consideration is that, like in RL, people are a mix of good and evil and not a coherent incarnation of it.
The part where you use in-game mechanisms is the part where you don't have witnesses, where you're cruel but not a lawbreaker and where you disguise your real intentions. No need to go OOC.
The reason why we go into off-topic endless discussions is because both me and Rinenud enjoy rhetoric and trying to sound smarter than the other. I gotta give Rinenud some internets today, because he pulled my leg like he pulled Frois after I warned him. Next time I shall win.
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Hum. You do realize that all you did was ask me about something no one knows for no actual reason, right? I did say something banal, but it had other consequences (explaining that choice is a subjective concept) than the ones you drew (trolling), since some people were actually misinformed.
Don't tell me you're really losing market value...
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No, actually, I understand the difference between real world evil and IG evil. Here is the problem, evil in game will never be sincere enough to work as expected. If it did, we would not be having this discussion year after year. You can play a "bad" character, but not an "evil" one.
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Verden, you can't take every thread in this forum for real. Just because some people aren't satisfied, it doesn't mean that others aren't doing things right.
Rinenud, it's kinda like your turn to try. That last attempt... Well let's be kind and just say it's not really market worthy.
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Well, it seems you failed your aim by a mile then. Your responses to me are all a reflection of that, including this attempt of doing my bidding.
You haven't continued with the discussion I keep prompting... Saying to continue with it doesn't actually count as participating, you know?
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To we have to pick between good and evil? Personally I have a hero character and an evil one. The evil Guy is rarely users, but the potential is there. I agree more villianns are needed in PS. It's just more fun having to always be paranormal that the enemy could be anywere or doing anything.
*Edit*
LOL sorry I posted this in the wrong thread. Suppose that's what hathoughhen you draft and post from a phone though
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Lol
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Evil characters are D.O.A. in PlaneShift.
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Well, a few people have pointed out that no character should be "only evil" or "only good." People have a wide range of actions and motivations, and a well-developed character will as well.
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I had to skip ahead some in this discussion since it turned into a flame war... Look up at the subject people. Why you dislike someone is not the topic.
My contribution to this thread is http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StupidEvil (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StupidEvil). It is short and gives you a bit to think about.
These are the people who seem to think having an evil alignment means doing nothing but evil every waking moment, even out in broad daylight. Like, say, stabbing a peasant while several high-level town guards are watching for no reason other than you were bored.
So I believe that a character who is evil should probably try to appear to be good-ish, unless they are playing a stupid evil person, who tends to cut of their nose to spite their face and end up in prison, an asylum, or some other consequence. That is my opinion on it anyway.
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Between the flame that same point of view and link was conveyed. Your help is always welcome though, against the likes of Rinenud.
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Evil characters are D.O.A. in PlaneShift.
Yup. Pretty sad in my opinion. My character is evil, and all the people who are "old, wise sages," "booze-chugging partygoers" or "aged warriors with a twinkle in their eye and a story to tell" seem to like poking fun. That's not because I play it badly, it's cause they just don't like the fact that there is Horde in Yliakum >:D jk
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If you tell them you touched the brim of the Crystal, they'll certainly think you're playing it badly.
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Evil characters are not D.O.A in Planeshift. Players who are capable of having a thick enough OOC skin to deal with godmodding and superhero-esque good guys are hard to come by though.
People get so eager to play with a "bad guy" that they go overboard and burn out the bad guy's player. Use some restraint, and play with common sense, and we won't have this problem.
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So, the hints you have are not actually for anyone who is playing a "bad guy" they're for anyone who's not.
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Evil does not translate well into this game. Part of it is settings, part mechanics, and the other part is the bit that nobody gets.
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I agree. That's one of the reasons why the Dark Empire's focus has changed over the times, from lawful evil to lawfully ambitious.
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I wouldn't call the criminals in-game 'evil.' Just... Being very ambitious in their goals.
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I agree. That's one of the reasons why the Dark Empire's focus has changed over the times, from lawful evil to lawfully ambitious.
Haha, I love this.
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Evil does not translate well into this game. Part of it is settings, part mechanics, and the other part is the bit that nobody gets.
There should be nothing in any MMORPG that prevents its players from being evil. Nothing at all. The fact that you say there is here is true, but sickening.
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Now thinking about the topic further, evil is so over-done and... unrealistic. Corruption is much more realistic and interesting. To some they are interchangeable, but to me they are not. Then again, Planeshift may not be made to be 'perfectly' realistic.
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http://www.pandora.com/music/song/cage+elephant/aint+no+rest+for+wicked#lyrics (http://www.pandora.com/music/song/cage+elephant/aint+no+rest+for+wicked#lyrics)
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Now thinking about the topic further, evil is so over-done and... unrealistic. Corruption is much more realistic and interesting. To some they are interchangeable, but to me they are not. Then again, Planeshift may not be made to be 'perfectly' realistic.
Well, if you talk about evil you need to somehow define it (an be careful towards not letting the following discussion slip into the ususal internet-ugliness). From a story point of view, you're completely right (since corruption, or lets say, the slow decline of a character's morals to a much greyer - or even darker - spectrum makes very nice conflicts possible that fuel rp if done right). I even think that this is the best source for all those cliché "Light vs Dark" conflicts that's feasible for the community with the current game mechanics.
As far as I can tell, the community is partly avoiding those kind of things because of OOC reasons (they do not want to cause or be on the receiving end of grief and nasty OOC feuds). The absence of death as a threat is also a IC and OOC problem. Then again, this all seems solvable.
http://www.pandora.com/music/song/cage+elephant/aint+no+rest+for+wicked#lyrics (http://www.pandora.com/music/song/cage+elephant/aint+no+rest+for+wicked#lyrics)
Cease and repent! ;)