PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xanthan on June 24, 2011, 06:36:59 pm
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A question for the settings team. To avoid spoilers I'm going to be a bit vague here - sorry about that.
There is a very strong affinity between Laanx and the Dark Way that is implied by a certain magic item. I haven't seen this association referenced elsewhere in the settings. I'm wondering which of these things is true:
1) This association is no longer consistent with settings.
2) I'm overlooking something, or haven't encountered it yet.
3) This association is valid, but hasn't been developed yet in settings.
I'm asking because people tend to look at the Dark Way negatively and this strong connection with Laanx has huge implications for this perception, for role play, and for the implementation of the Dark Circle faction.
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An interesting and well justified question.
I always had the impression that the deities should not be associated with particular and single ways of magic.
And some of the rules for attributes resulting from random loot affixes seem quite arbitrary.
I am looking forward to reading a statement from the settings department about this case here.
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Yes, a good question. Settings suggest the affinity of dark way to Dakkru (thus you get Dakkru's followers as DW trainers, Dark Crystal being related to the Death Realm and etc.).
If something, may be Black Flame fits it better, being somehow related to Laanx. May be the item really hints to that? This raises the question, whether users of such items are really hinting to their BF association?
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I'm hardly a lore expert by any means, but the gist I got from character creation and the questlines I've pursued is that Laanx, Dakkru and Black Flame are the evil religions, and Talad and Xiosia are the good religions. Crystal and Blue way are the sole providence of the good, black and red are the sole providence of evil, azure and brown are fairly neutral. In summation, one's choice of magic ways is one of the greatest determinants of what sort of character you roleplay, because you can't get certain glyphs without doing certain deeds, and the quests' morality aren't often subtle. I tend to make my characters worship Talad and focus on crystal, blue and to a lesser extent, azure, because to make any other choice means being a psychopath. You might worship Laanx, and Laanx might not be intended to be evil, but so far as I've been able to learn, the only way to get certain dark way glyphs, for example, is to do some pretty unsavory things. Not sure how much of this is just limitations of the unfinished game status, and how much of this is intentional.
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No, Laanx and Dakkru are not positioned as evil. Black Flame on the other hand is.
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many consider drakku evil but she's not. instead her followers many times don't have their mind perfectly ok :P
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Crystal and Blue way are the sole providence of the good, black and red are the sole providence of evil, azure and brown are fairly neutral.
I'm unsure about the Azure way being neutral- especially considering that Levrus says the way is raft with problems, and the mind-control aspect of it. I indeed suspect one could play a very evil mage using nothing but the azure way.
I'm not sure necessarily that any of the ways are necessarily 'evil.' The red way simply calls on the power of chaos, the dark way the powers of death and the afterlife. I would love to see a very high-realm dark way spell that actually prevents dying, and I think it would fit very well into that circle of magic (who knows, maybe there is one and I'm simply not skilled enough).
I think this was an excellent question Xanthan, I hope the settings devs look into all the connections very thoroughly.
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2) I'm overlooking something, or haven't encountered it yet.
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Is there a difference between the literal alignment of a way, and the necessary alignment of a follower progressing in it? Philosophically, sure, but not in practice. I imagine, once the game goes 1.0, there will be, for example, evil ways to get good glyphs, and good ways to get evil glyphs, so to speak. Otherwise, the gods and the ways are the same as their followers in the eyes of the public, and so are the players that join them.
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There is a difference. Ways are neutral in essence, their application by mages is aligned. For example CW mage can kill innocents with missile shower, acting evil. The moral choice of the way user makes the difference.
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Gilrond´s interpretation - that the ways are neutral, it´s how they are used that is good or evil - was always mine. The association of Laanx with the Dark way (as well as others) fits with this. However, I see many hints in the settings that Dark is perceived as evil. While I can see that this would be a common perception, I´m hoping that its interpretation in settings as a whole will not be so clichéd. I see the Laanx connection as evidence of some subtlety and depth. I am intrigued and I want to know more! I am also basing a lot of character story and roleplay on this, so I´d like to make sure I´m not barking up the wrong tree.
Consider e.g. that the most offensive spells in the game have typically been Crystal Way spells rather than Dark, and that Dark spells can potentially offer ways to neutralize your enemies without killing them.
Perlam, your comment would be more useful if you followed it up with a mention of what you´re referring to.
I don´t know who is on the Settings team, so if anyone is replying in an official capacity would you please let us know that.
Thanks for the thoughtful responses so far.
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agreed with Gilrond. The ways are neutral. The glyphs and the magic energies they contain are universal, even the gods used a glyph to create the world. Dark Way has many evil connotations (As canon because they're mentioned by NPCs, or just as player reactions), as does AW and slightly less RW, but I chalk those up to superstitions and misunderstandings, not actual fact.
I play a Xiosian Priestess who studies RW, AW, and CW. I think these Ways fit her character, Red because of her faith in will over chaos, Azure because of her umm, psychological intuitiveness?, and CW for her passion for healing and helping others. There were some quests which rewarded RW and AW glyphs that I chose not to run because they called on my character to do things she wouldn't do because of her Neutral-Good Alignment, her Post-Conventional Stage 5 Moral Development, and her faith in the ways of Xiosia. So I either obtained those glyphs by having an Alt with a different set of morals run the quests or buying them from a player merchant.
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No, Laanx and Dakkru are not positioned as evil. Black Flame on the other hand is.
I'm of the impression that BF is more indifferent rather than pure evil. As long as the goal is reached (whatever it is) the means of getting there doesn't matter.
Also, Laanx slaying a whole bunch of Klyroses cause they wouldn't bow to her/his divinity sounds a bit evil to me. S/he even used a Dark Way spell to do it :detective: That being said, I also believe that the evil/good of a particular Way should be based on the individual using it rather than the way itself.
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As long as the goal is reached (whatever it is) the means of getting there doesn't matter.
This is pretty evil in essence.
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As long as the goal is reached (whatever it is) the means of getting there doesn't matter.
Yeah, that is evil.
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the goal is destruction.
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It doesn't seem evil to me. The goal is the raise of BF, and both evil and good actions are necessary. Consider that BF even eliminated a corrupted Octarch ;) Then, the order is hated and outlawed, because of his positions against the Octarchy and the other gods. But this doesn't make the order evil, just some of his actions can be. It is a secret society, that keeps a huge secret, is obvious that it has to act that way. Also mind that the followers don't do evil for fun, but just to reach their goal. I would consider pure evil, someone that only wants destruction of everything and everyone, which is not the goal of BF (at least, not the one that the followers are told).
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i'll have to trust those who've run the BF quests, but I was under the impression that BF was more chaotic than evil.
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I'm still hoping to hear from the settings team about the Laanx issue. Perhaps we should start a new thread re BF.
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the scope of bf is the destruction of the whole yliakum.
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Is not what the quests or the books tell. Has been said many times that no one knows the true goal of BF...and everyone i know that plays a BF follower surely don't want the destruction of Yliakum.
Also...sorry for the :offtopic:
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and that's the ic knownledge :)
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Perlam, your comment would be more useful if you followed it up with a mention of what you´re referring to.
the answer is 2, Xanthan, i just don't so spoilers in here, so i cannot elaborate
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Thanks Perlam- I will take that as a sign that I am not mistaken in assuming a strong Laanx connection to the Dark Way and can safely roleplay that. Whether that is true or not, one of my characters believes it :-)