PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: Jacula on April 03, 2012, 12:55:45 pm
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Sticking to one's claims and promises would be a start.
I did previously consider joining Planeshift anew, raising the idea of name change changes to bring forth a fresh start to Role-players of old.
I was told a variation of the concept was in the works, weeks of discussion passing before I realized the futility in pressing the cause.
I was told that an answer would be given, for better or worse, yet none was received. Months now having passed.
It would be naive to uphold a sense of trust, as well as contribute to a project shrouded in deception.
If a request is denied by the general consensus of the time, simply say so rather than make a month long song and dance about it.
Having previously enjoyed Planeshift for years, I write so not to insult. But clarity is something I've perceived to be ridiculously lacking.
Source:
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=40621.0 (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=40621.0)
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Sticking to one's claims and promises would be a start.
I did previously consider joining Planeshift anew, raising the idea of name change changes to bring forth a fresh start to Role-players of old.
I was told a variation of the concept was in the works, weeks of discussion passing before I realized the futility in pressing the cause.
I was told that an answer would be given, for better or worse, yet none was received. Months now having passed.
It would be naive to uphold a sense of trust, as well as contribute to a project shrouded in deception.
If a request is denied by the general consensus of the time, simply say so rather than make a month long song and dance about it.
Having previously enjoyed Planeshift for years, I write so not to insult. But clarity is something I've perceived to be ridiculously lacking.
This is the best, most polite way I have seen it put. Talad (and others who have any authority to make changes without having to answer to Talad first), I completely agree with Jacula statement and think you should really consider it. Like Jacula, I played PS for many years. I have come to the same opinion. This is how I felt when working with the rules of both being a player and GM. Lack of clarity, direction and trust.
I love PS and I think it has great potential. I have met a great deal of wonderful, talented people in this community. Finding the talent isn't the problem, its what Jacula had pointed out in his/her post. Just my two cents worth.
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I feel its less deception and more plain lack of executive functioning. :sweatdrop: I believe that everyone who works on PS really does want to see it go somewhere. Open-Source code is a mixed blessing. On one hand you can get so many creative people from all over the globe, but on the other hand there is little communication between them, and that just makes things confusing.
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A project being Open-Source does not imply little communication between participants. It just has to be wanted and to be organized. I have only little information about "competing" projects, but immediately remember one which holds regular meetings and uses a very elaborate software to share results of the departments.
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This is strange. People hacking at the devs for not listening and stuff. Wake up! _They_ are doing the work. And if it is too much some times, they drop things and do them later or never.
We can propose our ideas, and they will take the proposals at their leisure - or not. There is no right here to get your proposals through. No one can guarantee your proposal is good and not a nail in a coffin. It is the dev's responsibility, so tell your ideas and be done. If they are accepted, good. If not, the same. Neither pushing nor whining is necessary or helpful.
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It is not a matter of whining from my side.
I do not expect whatever proposals I might have forwarded to be simply accepted, nor do I delude myself to think that I have a special right to see them come to fruition.
What I do find a fair courtesy. And even what should be a development function, is to provide a straight answer.
Leading someone on by claiming processing and implementation of a proposal, only to drop it once the proposing player loses both faith and interest is in many ways fallible.
To start it creates a significant lack of trust, damaging relations between players and the developing team.
More so, it cripples what could be a meaningful exchange of ideas rather than aiding it.
To simply provide a "yes" or a "no" is a function of authority, and to disregard it in favor of obfuscating, lying and proceeding to mince words is ultimately ridiculous.
Turning ideas and concepts down off the bat is far more progressive than leading players on, and if the motivation to uphold such a charade is derived from the idea that "some players just can't take a no", then those weighing decisions truly needs to reevaluate what it means to wield authority over others.
If there is a gripping fear of being rendered unpopular or losing players in doing so, guess what?
deceptively obfuscating and abusing whatever sense of trust players have provides the very same at what appears even more staggering rates.
I truly wish the best for this project, so again, I say this with no intent to insult. But this infantile execution of authority needs to be reconsidered.
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It is not a matter of whining from my side.
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What I do find a fair courtesy. And even what should be a development function, is to provide a straight answer.
As I see it, you are not whining, but pushing. Your original proposal has a number of pros and cons, as discussed there. And the answer is not simple. Which is (probably) why there is none. A simple answer there would be a prejudice to a number of related problems and might change large parts of the game, maybe involuntarily. So, no simple answer, because there is none. And no discussion of this, because devs have other things to do...
Again, I am only guessing, not knowing :)
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I don't know how long you have played the game Pakarro but you sound like a noob, devs are always telling use to let them know what we think about new features. So far I have not seen any complaints get any changes making it look like they just want a lot of compliments. Looking at the game and how it has progressed I would say most of the devs have never tried to lvl up a char so they have no idea what its like to play the game. Maybe if they did lvl up a char instead of just spawning one with maxed stats and skills they would see why we are not pleased with sertain changes. We are always being told we can help shape the world of yliakum but new content and projects under way are hidden or atleast realy hard to find any information on. Making if very hard to sugest anything that might fit well or anything that could be changed before it is put in game that will avoid problems later. I have played ps for about 3 years now and agree with most of what Jacula says.
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To simply provide a "yes" or a "no" is a function of authority, and to disregard it in favor of obfuscating, lying and proceeding to mince words is ultimately ridiculous.
We just didn't have the time to look at your request, this doesn't imply any lying, obfuscating or similar. I really don't understand how you can go to those conclusions. We just have limited time, like everyone else.
We are always being told we can help shape the world of yliakum but new content and projects under way are hidden or atleast realy hard to find any information on.
I guess you missed the fact we host every two weeks a "meet the devs" meeting in game where we discuss about what we are working on and we answer to players' questions. I don't see how what we are working on is "hidden", as we discuss it publicly on those meetings.
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To simply provide a "yes" or a "no" is a function of authority, and to disregard it in favor of obfuscating, lying and proceeding to mince words is ultimately ridiculous.
We just didn't have the time to look at your request, this doesn't imply any lying, obfuscating or similar. I really don't understand how you can go to those conclusions. We just have limited time, like everyone else.
My conclusion would be the product of the claims offered by the GM I had contact with throughout what appeared an implementation process of the concept I had raised.
That leads me to believe that either the GM's have the authority necessary to alter or add to policy without higher consent, or that there simply was no contact what so ever between the GM's and developers when it came to this particular proposal.
Either way, I find my reaction reasonable.
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devs are always telling use to let them know what we think about new features. So far I have not seen any complaints get any changes
I complained about the low loot rates for medium hides and they were bumped up. Some things are easily fixed others are not. I complained about having to buy tanning acid crystals one at a time, this also was promptly changed. I have had numerous other suggestions left undiscussed beyond a minimal point, that is just the way it goes. If you really want to have a definite say in things you have to join the team, implement your ideas and show how they work. Even then it is not a given that they will be accepted. Doers are more important than thinkers, I can think of lots of stuff to improve aspects of the game but unless I am prepared to code I have to hope it gives someone who does some inspiration.
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To simply provide a "yes" or a "no" is a function of authority, and to disregard it in favor of obfuscating, lying and proceeding to mince words is ultimately ridiculous.
We just didn't have the time to look at your request, this doesn't imply any lying, obfuscating or similar. I really don't understand how you can go to those conclusions. We just have limited time, like everyone else.
My conclusion would be the product of the claims offered by the GM I had contact with throughout what appeared an implementation process of the concept I had raised.
That leads me to believe that either the GM's have the authority necessary to alter or add to policy without higher consent, or that there simply was no contact what so ever between the GM's and developers when it came to this particular proposal.
Either way, I find my reaction reasonable.
we didn't see anything of such, so maybe you could ask your contact about that.
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devs are always telling use to let them know what we think about new features. So far I have not seen any complaints get any changes
I complained about the low loot rates for medium hides and they were bumped up. Some things are easily fixed others are not. I complained about having to buy tanning acid crystals one at a time, this also was promptly changed. I have had numerous other suggestions left undiscussed beyond a minimal point, that is just the way it goes. If you really want to have a definite say in things you have to join the team, implement your ideas and show how they work. Even then it is not a given that they will be accepted. Doers are more important than thinkers, I can think of lots of stuff to improve aspects of the game but unless I am prepared to code I have to hope it gives someone who does some inspiration.
/me is reminded of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGF9NbPFfRo)
PS is a sentient beast. The Devs are its genetic code. Us forum dwellers are whispering spirits dwelling in the ether, trying to dictate which way it should grow.
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I have one comment about gm's and it's about their busy schedules. I think gm's are doing jobs that they can organize groups of players to do. I looked at the different responsibilities of a gm and was shocked to see they are testing new features and bugs that occur in the games. It's no wonder there is so much time when there is no gm in the game at all when I play if they are doing all that work. I wonder if anyone has proposed creating a team of players who can test bugs and new features so that the gm's don't have to do that. You can have one gm in charge of the team and in control of what the players are doing. That way players are helping out more and can ease the burdens on the gm team. I would be happy to help get such a thing organized and going if everyone thinks it's a good idea. I bet it would allow the gm's to focus on other issues in the game.
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the testing team has always been there. afaik it's empty right now.
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I just PMed Talad about it, I would be happy to join it. I am useless though if I have to do more then test in game bugs. I can't read code.
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you need to be able to build the game from sources. there is a sticky topic about it somewhere.
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:'( probably the reason I never applied to start with. Hmm I might no some others in game though I can talk too.
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well you could try and learn some skills in between. it doesn't require understanding what you are compiling.
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I have been a member of the community since 2004. Finally after the meet the devs series and calls for the community to help, I finally decided to join the team just to help out a bit. This was in May 2011. Initially I applied to just be a tester but in those 7 years, I had never built a client...couldn't dream of it, didn't think I had a chance.
But I got lucky...I finally gave it a shot, went through the guide, and most importantly I had f-rd (aurelynt) to walk me through it. I was done in 20 minutes. Sadly, one day a few weeks later, f-rd logged out of irc and hasn't been seen since.
So what we need here is someone who
a) knows client building enough to troubleshoot when things go wrong (and it seems something always does) and
b) has a good skill of walking someone through it and can be there a good amount of time whenever someone may give it a shot.
Also keep it mind, it varies by OS. So you may need one person per platform.
Another problem with the built client approach to testing, is it does not update art. And many of the things that have to be tested as of late (map updates, animation, etc.) requires one to see new art.
There is an internal dev updater for that but I doubt Talad would be willing to give too much access to that. The alternative would be to have a separate site like that dedicated to testers (maybe use ezpcusa?), but then that would mean uploading all that stuff twice.
I'm not sure what the best solution here is but it seems given there not much of a testing team at the moment (there's the dev team ourselves, and LigH at least), we need something other than the built client approach. That seems to be a real blocker.
Of course one could say we are -all- testers, but there are various stages. There's testing things before they come out, just to see if it works in the first place, then there's testing once it's released (us, the community).
(and by the way, after a hard drive crash in October, I never built the client again. :P )