PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Cirerey on June 06, 2012, 04:11:02 pm
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I'd love to see a view mode of a map, seen from overhead. As one develops a mapping skill it would become more accurate and detailed and one could mark it up with item locations, and eventually publish maps based on it.
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An "in-game automap" has been rejected several times...
A view from far above can be provoked by editing the camera.xml file in your private options sub-folder; but it works only until you change the camera distance again (e.g. with the mousewheel), if at all, and only in certain camera modes.
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You do it wrong Ligh...just change "MaxCameraDistance" to 500 for freerotation camera mode in ~/.PlaneShift/options.camera.xml. That way you can scroll with the wheel as much as you want and still don't reset the setting. And if you want an overview just go to free-rotation camera mode and scroll out as far as you want. The only time this gets reset is if you do some changes in the camera-options tab in the in-game options...what I think nobody ever does at all. And while at it...disable the camera collision by setting "UseCollisionDetection" to "off" in the general section of that file.
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Well, honestly I have wondered, since the first time I joined PS, why there isn't a useful map (not the one you get when you finish the tutorial...) in game... And Cyrerey idea seems very good to me. At the very first time it could be a blank sheet, then, the more you train the more it get detailed, perhaps it shows only the places you already visited... Why not?
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What Aiw said...
Also: There are several maps of PSland that have been made over the years. Several of them are very good ones, too.
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Also as a result of the game lacking of a map put in by the devs players have done their own and you buy and sell them and collect em and they all look rather lovely and helpful when done well. Encourages player creativity ;)
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What Aiw said...
Also: There are several maps of PSland that have been made over the years. Several of them are very good ones, too.
I like not reading over peoples points so I can just repeat in different words the exact same point. Sorry!
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>_> It's all good, Roberet.
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Not really a minimap, but zooming hack - you change max zooming distance in the camera xml, and zoom out to the "birdeye view".
UPDATE: I see Aiwendil and LigH already mentioned this :)
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Holy racoons, i dunno about creativity, but focusing on "Where the f...ing God i am?" instead of roleplaying looks over9000 strange - this way I don't have enough time to focus on personality of my character!
Without minimap and automap I don't see any future of PS on the market. The character I play grew in this world and by frigging default can't have such navigation problems I have! So, dear developers, as it said - put up you trousers or put off your holy cross ;)
Sincerely and so on!
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What about some sort of compromise?
What if we give new players a VERY rough map of just Hydlaa to go along with their "Letter from a friend." This map can be pretty much exactly like an editable scroll except it will have a very rough outline of Hydlaa as the background instead of just a blank slate. By editing this map like any other scroll, players will be able to add details to the map and mark important locations/NPCs/etc. For a start, the map should have markings for people/places mentioned in the letter (aka Harnquists shop, the library, maybe the temple).
Personally I love the idea of RP cartographers. I've bought an herbal wilderness map in-game and love it. I wish there was more of this. But the fact is I haven't seen it at all and I've been playing for a while. New players aren't going to have a clue how to find one.
Cartographers will still be able to map out the wilderness for various purposes (hunting maps, mineral maps, herbal maps, general locations of interest) and would still be able to provide "completed" maps of the cities. But a simple map of Hydlaa would make sense to be given to newcomers ICly and would help new players a lot.
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I thought new players were being given basic maps of Hydlaa. I saw enough of them littered around Harn's...or have they changed that?
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Hmm... Might be true, I'm not really sure. If so, the ability to edit these maps would be very useful. To add locations of NPCs and points of interest.
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Hmmm, there's one more idea: basic, player's initial map (with "i'm here") can be upgraded through advanced maps, you've mentoined up there :) So, player will have two ways of opening uncharted areas or unknown details - firstly, go there and find out everything himself (long way), secondary - buying expanded or detailed maps from other players/NPC (expensive way). Amount of efforts should be about the same.
P.S.: There's a good idiom in Russian, that can be translated like "Rabbit cultivation manual". So .. :whistling:
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Already discussed
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Just to add my two cents.. I try to think of Ps taken as a real life view point for my character. So I have always enjoyed not having a mini map and only getting those couple of starting maps when making a new character. But this is of course just my personnel opinion. I know of a few different people who have managed to make some amazing maps and other cool looking trinkets using the scrolls. Most tend to use an out of game program to make whatever it is they want then transfer the data in game so it shows when looking at the right scroll. They manage to make some particularly cool looking things from this. I myself or Naira at least tries to make some wilderness herbal location maps. That I have sold during markets. I have only ever used the scrolls in game program to make these and they are very time consuming to make one. I want to be able to have a set for every "wilderness" map one day but they are quite long to finish just one. I have only ever managed to map out so far the roads from Hydlaa to Oja. Figure it is a good start as well as you never really run into a new player asking how to get to Grug before they have at least made their way to Oja.
So really before this becomes to long. There is the possibility to have maps in game. Make them, find them, Role play to find out some names of people who might have made something amazing already. If you want to find out who might have some maps already made best advice , Rp those questions. Also if you have trouble finding your way around without a minimap. Use that as inspiration for rp. Don't force role play but something like getting lost easily sounds like a perfect trait to explore rp venues with and for a large variety of other players.
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something like getting lost easily sounds like a perfect trait to explore rp venues with and for a large variety of other players.
This. If people tried playing the more popular rpgs without ever using the map it would be well known, not having a map immerses the player to the game significantly. The real problem with PS is we don't have an appealing and dynamic environment yet, this takes much part of the beauty of exploring while also making it easier to get lost, since most areas use always the same, few, small textures. Concerning the dynamic environment its actually being worked on, npcs will have more interesting behaviors soon... as for the appealing nature part I don't know when we will work on it yet, with all the char models, animations etc being on the way. But in any case, throwing a map in the game is not much of a solution :)
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Frankly, I've never really noticed a difference in immersion between games with a minimap and games that don't have one. If I'm roleplaying, the map is useful as the characters I play usually ought to know their way around paces I as a player don't. Having played PS for years, I don't get lost much any more, but much of the game looks so samey that it might be useful for newer players to find the road. It doesn't really encourage roleplay much if you're lost in bd2 with no other players on the map, or nowhere near the path more experienced players would travel to the EBD on. Even a system with little markers that show you where things within a certain distance are would be nice, especially if players had the option of toggling it on and off.
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If I'm roleplaying, the map is useful as the characters I play usually ought to know their way around paces I as a player don't.
This. If you're lost in an area your character is supposed to be familiar with (the streets of Hydlaa), then you're being OOC and there's nothing you can do about it. And if you're lost in the wilderness, you're probably not going to run into anyone who can help.
Has anyone considered maybe just a compass? If you're lost on the road to Oja, but you know that Oja is east and Hydlaa is west, then a compass would be enough to find your way without giving away any "spoilers" (idk if I would consider a map a "spoiler" in the first place but whatever).
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When Pakerl first came to Yliakum it was quite hard to see how to survive without map features. But, I soon found out that it greatly enhances the reality of the situation, enhancing immersion. I think that the ps way to enforce inter-player contacts that way is really nice and useful. Maybe when coming in spoiled from single player adventures with rp character, one has to learn a little...
As always, just my personal opinion...
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/me announces again:
The Department of Stalactite Studies in the Yliakum Universitsy of the Knowledge Seekers offers courses in Yliacography, orientation and Ranger skills... ;)
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Has anyone considered maybe just a compass?
Venorel had a compass of sorts when first journeying from her home village. One can use the /pos command (think that is what it is named). It will give the x,y,z position of the character on the current map.
- Nova
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@ tman:
You may be forgiven to be new.
A simple compass has been denied for years already. You won't believe how the "Hydlaa East" quarter forced the Settings to invent a Vigesimi named East Stronghand to deny any relation to directions.
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A simple compass has been denied for years already. You won't believe how the "Hydlaa East" quarter forced the Settings to invent a Vigesimi named East Stronghand to deny any relation to directions.
Forgive me for my ignorance, but that just sounds stupid. No complex civilization is going to develop without some way to describe locations in relation to one another. It's such a simple thing. I don't care if they call north "shlorb" and south "bonerfart" but they would have developed words for these concepts.
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Many solutions have been offered already which do not even rely on a magnetic or magic field. Like the direction towards the Eagle Bronze Doors being "north". Or the direction towards the center being special.
The available part of the world is still a very small fraction. We will see if any degree of change will happen while it grows.
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Concerning suggestions for cardinal directions:
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/flyspray/index.php?do=details&task_id=4668
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Yliakum is, by all means, different from Earth. By different I mean everything, its races, its plants, its topology, geography, climate, everything. A compass or other navigation terms and themes won't apply to Yliakum IMO. We should use something totally different. Something depth and angle based maybe. But a compass would be inappropriate for Yliakum. And probably wouldn't work either.
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Technically speaking, the people of Yliakum wouldn't have much trouble with orientation simply because they would always be able to see the crystal that never changes position. Thus a thing as a compass wouldn't ever need to be invented because the sun itself is a reliable point of reference. In real life we need compasses because the sun changes position with time, actually it is even possible to use a simple hand watch instead of a compass if you configure it right.
The fact sun never changes position would also mean parts of land behind hills and big rocks would always be shaded and a bit colder than the rest allowing the flora to develop in interesting ways (and shapes) along the land. For the warmer areas as the Dome plants should flourish in these parts as water wouldn't dry off as easily after the rain. With time we could even get plants that prefer the shade over others that prefer light.
I don't think anyone has put much thought to these things yet but it would be interesting. ;D
And sorry for the :offtopic:
edit: mistnmc, great minds meet! ;D
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A compass doesn't have to be magnetic. Have a compass with a small magically charged crystal that always points to the Azure sun. Call that direction "crys" or something, name the other three relative to them, and suddenly you have a coordinate system that makes sense.
The whole "looking toward the sun" thing works great. As long as you're not in a cave or dungeon or sewer (the places someone new is probably most likely to get lost).
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I think that the ps way to enforce inter-player contacts that way is really nice and useful.
The problem with forcing player interaction is, you need players. Which we lack much of the time, and even when they are on they can't always be found and not everyone has gossip on. Yes, some stay, but frustrating players out of the game because they get lost is counter-productive to getting more people in the PlaneShift community.
The fact sun never changes position would also mean parts of land behind hills and big rocks would always be shaded and a bit colder than the rest allowing the flora to develop in interesting ways (and shapes) along the land. For the warmer areas as the Dome plants should flourish in these parts as water wouldn't dry off as easily after the rain. With time we could even get plants that prefer the shade over others that prefer light.
I don't think anyone has put much thought to these things yet but it would be interesting. ;D
This sounds brilliant, and can even be brought on-topic - perhaps if there were some "rule" to it (like the myth that moss always grows on the north side of trees. Untrue in real life but still useful if you're lost, like the one-side rule in a maze), then we wouldn't even need maps or compasses.
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This sounds brilliant, and can even be brought on-topic - perhaps if there were some "rule" to it (like the myth that moss always grows on the north side of trees. Untrue in real life but still useful if you're lost, like the one-side rule in a maze), then we wouldn't even need maps or compasses.
Still this only works for people who are outdoors. Doesn't help at all for someone stuck in the sewers or caves.
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Still this only works for people who are outdoors. Doesn't help at all for someone stuck in the sewers or caves.
And, this is the exact point why auto-maps of any kind are counter-productive in ic rp. You cannot walk into an underground system, whistling a song and not think about getting lost down there. You have to find someone who can search for you, or progress very carefully...
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Which is still a good argument for a compass. If I walk south into a cave, I'll at least have a general idea that I'll need to go north to get out.
I'm surprised no one has brought up the fact that the players who are lost and want a map will probably just end up googling one if there's no IC way to obtain one. I agree that a whole moving minimap with a "You are here" arrow would be too much for realism, but city maps and even wilderness road maps seem like they shouldn't be that difficult to obtain (from both an IC and player point of view). I would LOVE if there were more cartographer characters willing to put in the time and effort to make basic maps, and then to be online enough to distribute them. But the fact is they just aren't out there right now.
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My initial thought had been for a cartography skill. You would need to stand still to map the area within your line of sight when you executed a "/map survey" command. Quality of the resulting map would depend on your skill level. Integrating map segments would require that they be contiguous. So your map might have multiple maps on it until you mapped the areas between. Producing copies might be possible, but would also require some effort. Annotating the map would require that you stand next to a named object or a signpost and "/map annotate". So it wouldn't be too easy or quick. It might even require or benefit from specialized survey equipment like a transit or at least a compass. And some areas could be declared magically unmappable if desired. Reading the map would be a "/map read" (or just /map) command. This would mean you would have to study a little to read a map effectively even if you were given or purchased one.
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I like the idea in that it at least provides a framework for players to learn their way around without giving the information to them in an OOC way. I just have two concerns:
1. Learning a new skill in PS is always long and tedious, so by the time players have played enough to get to level 20 they'll probably already know their way around all of the main areas anyway.
2. From an IC point of view, there's no reason for everyone to be mapping the same areas. It's like every character is reinventing the wheel. Presumably (in a realistic world) this is all information that would have been recorded long ago by explorers/cartographers and be available to anyone through the library or by purchase.