PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Eonwind on June 12, 2012, 04:08:45 pm
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At the next server reboot the mining, harvesting and fishing skills will give items (ore, crystals, plants, ...) with a variable quality based on the following factors:
- relevant skill
- relevant tool quality
- a random factor
This will allow blacksmiths, cooks and herbalists to get higher quality base materials to use.
We hope this rule update will be helpful for your crafting :)
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(http://www.cosgan.de/smiliegenerator/ablage/796/66.png)
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Great, at last there will be some point in using the master crafted rock pick! What about lumium coated sickles for better harvesting? ;D
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The main thing to remember, especially when mining/harvesting/fishing in great numbers is stacking. Different qualities means they won't stack so you'll run out of inv slots fast. And if you stack them of course it means an averaged quality. I'd probably keep 3 stacks - low, medium, and high - or something like that.
Compared to the benefit of variable quality, which is long overdue, it's a minor problem...you just have to develop your own strategy for it. Just something to keep in mind.
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This actually requires a fix. Some might prefer to stack everything. So it introduces an impairment. There should be some trigger which enables or disables stacking by quality. When it's disabled, items should be stacked just by the name.
something like:
/stack_by_quality off
Then dig whatever you want and it will all stack automatically (if you don't mind the averaging of the quality)
/stack_by_quality on
to restore the original mode.
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Are the ground score units going to remain there to pick up and be a standard quality?
Will the npc merchants pay a per quality rate for ores, because I wouldn't unless the quality of the metal made a difference to the quality of a finished product.
Will the merchants that sell products that cannot be acquired elsewhere, milk or whatever, at several different qualities or will those items remain q50 or become available from free sources?
This has been talked about for a long time and is welcome. Let us hope it doesn't cause more complaints.
An alternative to the stack on/off suggestion would be an item stacking function such that items are stacked automatically according to the range: 1-50; 51-100; 101-150, etc. This would reduce the number of inventory slots required. This is also probably just a pipe dream.
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Are the ground score units going to remain there to pick up and be a standard quality?
If you pick a flower they will, at the moment be Q50. The update only changes mined/harvested materials.
Will the npc merchants pay a per quality rate for ores, because I wouldn't unless the quality of the metal made a difference to the quality of a finished product.
Everything has a price scale dependent on Q. A higher Q ore will (technically, but probably not everytime due to the random factor) make a better Q finished product.
Will the merchants that sell products that cannot be acquired elsewhere, milk or whatever, at several different qualities or will those items remain q50 or become available from free sources?
At the moment they are all just Q50.
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Venalan: Is it possible to address the stacking problem?
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Probably, but obviously not without someone coding a system.
This is similar to having all the different Qs in the crafting containers but without the 'take and stack all button'. Some sort of user defined stacking brackets would be nice to have, or, as you suggested with the fixed 50 Q brackets. So 'no stacking', 'stack all' and 'bracket stacking' options in the settings somewhere.
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And probably good idea to provide some command to cycle between these modes, so it could be bound to some key.
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There's one things I want to clarify: the new rules won't give a quality penalty but only bonuses so the worst quality you can mine/harvest will be 50q (which is the normal quality gettable at the moment).
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If you use shortcuts, you can stack items by adding two commands to drop and pick them up.
With light items, you can put your high quality materials and finished stacks in containers to avoid dropping them.
This might be useful as a workaround, but it gets impractical if you want to work with many stacks of 65 items.
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Bravo! \\o// \\o// \\o//
Well done people. Just to make sure someone says it:
You have been steadily making the game better and it is noticed and appreciated.
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Another thing I have thought of in relation to this is that it would be good to have some kind of quality indicator that can be recognized at a glance in the inventory. The biggest problem with the individually stacked by quality is that to make your own averaged range stacks by opening the info window for each item. Some kind of color coded bar running along the bottom of the icon or even as a full border would be useful. A red border would be 0-50q, an orange one 51-100, etc. This might be easier than coding bracket stacking and would make it easier to do so manually. (Roy G. Biv.) :)
Another thing to consider is to have only integer stacks so that q101.024 would stack with q101.24 in a stack of q 101. Standard rounding rules could apply -- round off might be more suitable than round up or round nearest as the two latter might make getting to 300 too easy.
I understand Eonwind's point about base quality of harvested-mined-fished item not being reduced but the stacking system is used for other processes as well which can reduce quality below 50 on abject failure.
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Good bye ore market and welcome hyperinflation.
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Good bye ore market and welcome hyperinflation.
heh it's a little late to start complaining about the economy now...
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He's got a point....
We need tria sinks! >:(
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There seems to be some discrepancies in quality. Night mushrooms by the magic shop were harvested at q300 with 6 skill.
everything I tried to dig under the temple (all crystals and iron) was also q300 but mining skill is 39. Tin out at the ruins was also 300, using the same q80 mc pick.
juiceberry berries were in the 100 range and carp fish were too.
stats are all maxed if that makes a difference.
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It has now been tweaked. I mined several ores yesterday and every single one was Q300. It should no longer be the case now.
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No; instead, I heard that miners with skill >50 never get an ore with a quality >60. So let's hope we do not really need level 200 miners to reach Q300 results after smithing etc.
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Does the input quality of the ore really make that much difference to the output ingots? I haven't tested it at all but all the same if the rules haven't changed so that the input quality of the ingots has much effect on the output finished product (helm, weapon etc.) then this feature is mostly useless. Perhaps it has been too long since I did any crafting. I really think that instead of increased quality of ingredients, increased quantity is a more suitable result of better skill.
I suppose short process products suffer more from low quality ingredients but really what does a q300 peeled apple represent? Is it so much better than a q150 peeled apple or does the law of diminishing returns come into play at some point? Not everything needs 300 levels of quality.
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With the last rules, input quality is a small factor, most is randomized.
If that ever changes, input quality might become improtant. Who knows. Better take it into account early.
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I am not quite sure, LigH. It probably depends on the length of the process chain.
I hear of disappointed mages that mostly shatter their gems while trying to enchant them. Maybe this is one of the cases where the raw materials quality does matter much.
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I hear of disappointed mages that mostly shatter their gems while trying to enchant them. Maybe this is one of the cases where the raw materials quality does matter much.
exactly Bonifarzia in this case (but not only) gems quality matters against the chance of enchanting failure.
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I'm getting about 25% success rate with q50 gems, are you saying higher quality gems will work better? If that is the case it would be nice if there were some way to improve them before enchanting as digging them from the ground does not increase the gem quality much at my 39 mining skill and that skill does not increase very fast. At that success rate I'm not going to /dig the gems because I will need so many to make it cost effective. My magic skill is also relatively low with crystal way the highest around 76. it is nice that gem enchanting will help boost my magic skill faster than endless casting.
I do wonder why this was implemented before gem cutting as I would expect that to be a prerequisite skill, however, it is nice to have new things to try.
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At that success rate I'm not going to /dig the gems because I will need so many to make it cost effective.
I think it would be a good thing if this had an effect to promote player to player trade. I am inpatient and stubborn, both IC and OoC, and therefore I would never train mining to succeed with some gem enchanting. I would rather buy the gems from miners.
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at this point 2 rules are being discussed:
- the mining chance formula to get ore will be reworked very soon, at the moment it gives too low results;
- second we are thinking about awarding practice points for mining/harvesting even for failures, this will improve the overall training speed for those skills but we did not came to decision yet
however please remember this is a multiplayer game so it will be very hard to be able to max out every skill and increasing cooperation between players is one of the devs objectives
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The problem with that is that mining practice is so slow to acquire that training it is rather discouraging. Even when I created dust while enchanting the gems I was getting magic practice but failure in mining historically gets none -- has that changed? Is it like that to prevent people getting practice in mining where there is no mine? Also gems seem to be among the more difficult things to mine.
Eowind's post was posted while I typed this one and as you can see I whole-heartedly support both those considered rule changes. The second would seem more important to me.
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at this point 2 rules are being discussed:
- the mining chance formula to get ore will be reworked very soon, at the moment it gives too low results;
- second we are thinking about awarding practice points for mining/harvesting even for failures, this will improve the overall training speed for those skills but we did not came to decision yet
however please remember this is a multiplayer game so it will be very hard to be able to max out every skill and increasing cooperation between players is one of the devs objectives
Yes, please! I fully supprot these points, and thank the devs for the good decisions.
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Is diamond dust used anywhere by the way? It should be applied as a tool to make sharper blades.
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at this point 2 rules are being discussed:
- the mining chance formula to get ore will be reworked very soon, at the moment it gives too low results;
- second we are thinking about awarding practice points for mining/harvesting even for failures, this will improve the overall training speed for those skills but we did not came to decision yet
Those are great and logical ideas. Failing still should give practice, since one learns on errors. Also, please fix the sapphire weight bug - they are 4 times heavier than other gems (2 vs 0.5) at the moment.
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If enchanting of crystals is going to remain one at a time--/use the enchanter can the enchanter be changed to an anvil type thing so we can shortcut the process? or is there some kind of booster that goes in the off hand as someone suggested to me.
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Hi all
Any news on when the mining chance formula to get ore will be reworked?
I am currently getting somewhere in the range of 1/3 to 1/4 of the success rate I had before the change.
This is with mining skill level 11 digging for iron.
I am in the same spot as before the change, meaning I am equally close or far to the sweet spot of the mine.
/Fenor
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Hi all
Any news on when the mining chance formula to get ore will be reworked?
I am currently getting somewhere in the range of 1/3 to 1/4 of the success rate I had before the change.
This is with mining skill level 11 digging for iron.
I am in the same spot as before the change, meaning I am equally close or far to the sweet spot of the mine.
/Fenor
hi the mining chance formula has been reworked and released, the lowest mining chance has been raised with the new formula. however before the change in mining quality there were too low skill requirements and this meant that almost everyone was able to get 300q ore very easily and this had to be fixed. Rising your skill will surely improve your chances. Also we are thinking about assigning practice point even for failed attempt.
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Also we are thinking about assigning practice point even for failed attempt.
Yes, please! Mathematically, one could do the same by adjusting the practice points for the skill. But this is more intuitive :)
Have a nice time!
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I would recommend anyone responsible for the current formula to start a new character and raise your mining skill.
/Fenor
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RP wise - ore is ore. I have hard time imagining what 300q ore vs 50q ore means, when you simply use a rockpick in the mine. The skill can affect speed, and ability to find a good vein, but when you dig in the same place - resulting quality will be the same, no matter what the skill.
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When you are using a pick against a rock-face you will get pieces of varying sizes and consistency. I think it is fairly rare to have ore-beds that are big enough to follow without chewing through a lot of dross as well. It isn't like here is this seam and it is 1 foot wide going straight back into the cliff 20 feet so all I have to do is keep my pick on line. A quality 300 ore will be one that is almost pure hematite not mixed with calcite or serpentine, for example. A quality 50 ore could have bubbles of hematite bound up in the calcite constituting less than 50% of the mass. It would be theoretically possible to pre-process the ore to improve the quality which could be using a hammer and chisel to remove more of the unwanted material.
It is this way of understanding -- right or wrong -- that makes me think it would be better to have no quality associated with ore and the results differentiated by the amount of ore you get. The quality of the ore is irrelevant for crafting purposes and the only real benefit to the current system is that miners can sell to the npc's and not be beholden to the metallurgists.
All the same this is what we have so we need to work with it.
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RP wise a better quality ore means the miner was able to get an ore with less impurity, which is more valuable, and the quality of ore and plants does affect the crafted item quality.
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I mean - purity of the ore is determined by the location, not so much by the skill. But I may be wrong.
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On a side note, placement of gem mines is a bit strange. For example vandalizing the floor in the great hall to extract gems from there doesn't look like something acceptable :)
Since you already moving the mines around, can you place some gem mines in the caves in the crater or some other logical places? Caves for sure could benefit from some mines, since now they are barely visited by anyone (there is nothing of interest there).
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Since you already moving the mines around, can you place some gem mines in the caves in the crater or some other logical places? Caves for sure could benefit from some mines, since now they are barely visited by anyone (there is nothing of interest there).
sounds like a good idea