PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: Ralua on July 20, 2012, 07:57:27 am
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Do you want to know why I keep leaving?
Dakkru's curse.
I know the reason that it's there is to prevent people travelling by death, but if people do that, surely they are only cheating themselves.
Having it there punishes you for not being a very strong character or a very good player.
I log in, do something silly, die. Spend the ten minutes finding my way out of the underworld and then have to spend my precious internet data quota on staying logged in unable to do anything.
I don't want to drop any of the items that I have spent literally years collecting so I just sit there for hours.
I don't play for long sessions, so it usually seems to take me about three login sessions for the curse to lift.
If there is a way to shorten the curse time, no-one is allowed to tell me because of the spoilers rule.
It's not encouraging me to come back and explore to try and find all those new areas that no-one is allowed to tell me about. If there even was anyone there to ask.
Anyway, thanks for making a pretty nice game, it just needs a few things in the mechanics to be tweaked to make it more playable.
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Do you want to know why I keep leaving?
Dakkru's curse.
Looks like the strength cut to half rendered you overloaded. This problem frustrates players every now and then. Don't hesitate to ask for the help of others. There are many ways to temporarily buff up strength, or somebody could help you carry some things to a storage site.
This comment does not imply that I like the curse - it is abused to easily for gaining extra experience.
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Ralua,
there's no way to shorten the Curse. But have you considered to put some of your items in storage so you don't become over-encumbered and can keep walking?
Any advisor who didn't tell you this in the help channel is a moron not well informed. Because technical advice about the death penalty and the existence of the storage NPCs are definitely not spoilers! ;)
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How often did I see players having their characters drop items as far away as they could, to stand up, pass them, and pick them again, to get to the storage NPC step by step. Instead of asking anyone to help. That's not at all the purpose of a multi-player game...
With a little luck, one may even have found another character who is able to cast "Strength", which lasts long enough to get to the storage.
__
Whoops, this was cut off from "Losing players?", which is locked now...
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The way Dakkru's curse works now, it's an extreme burden to new characters but characters who have high stats (especially strength) aren't really affected by it.
What if Dakkru's curse affected stats differently depending on their level? So a person with 50 strength, 100 endurance, and 150 intelligence might see a 10% drop in strength, 25% drop in endurance, and 40% drop in intelligence. Or something like that.
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When I was new DR was a very scarey place:
1) my version was almost always very dark. I learned to carry a torch at all times (didn't always work well).
2) I spent a lot of time in there due to my habit of running off cliffs (which I still do).
3) There have been some very interesting RPs in that particular place, not all of them nice to a newbie, but most really fun! Call it a learning curve.
4) We didn't have mounts.
5) We didn't have storage.
Now, 2-1/2 yrs later, I still travel very slow in that realm. And still "...fall and die", both in DR and in the rest of the world. But hey, PS is a fantasy world, and a part of it is the DR. I won't complain if you spend 2.5 yrs building up a few stats and skills. I have an older friend who says, "If you have a problem, build a bridge and get over it." Rather sarcastic, I know, but a good attitude actually.
Point is, I help whenever I can. And when I could finally cast "Strength" I didn't have to carry so many potions! Many is the time I helped with a heavy anvil, or guarded loot, etc. Most of us will try to help. Bear with it, and think of DR as a 'learning experience".
Make it a challenge to yourself, and above all, have FUN.
Sanrai :sorcerer:
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If you carry a supply of certain kinds of teas you can drink them to get a temporary strength stat boost which may help you get to storage. I don't think it's as much or as long of a boost as the Strength Spell though.
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Or just check your inventory before you do anything dangerous. Make sure, for example, if you can carry 100 lbs/kilos/whatever, that you're only carrying 50 before you fight a monster you've never fought before, or jump off a high place, or whatever.
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When it happened to come back from the DR over encumbered I always found someone willing to share my weight ot the nearest storage :)
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When Pakerl first got trapped by the curse, she sat down and cried a bit. Suddenly a number of nice and helpful people gathered round her. They cast useful spells and put apples on her head :) . A few weeks later she joined the Family (at that time Acrobat's Family).
Just to show the good side of the curse...
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The power of Dakkru's curse should scale with the power of the player, if possible.
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It does...
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It does...
Sounds like a perfectly balanced curse to me, then.
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It doesn't "scale" with the power of the player. It always cuts a characters stats in half. Which, you may say is "perfectly balanced," but you have to remember that cutting someone's carrying capacity from 90 to 45 is a LOT more a nuisance than cutting it from 300 to 150.
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...It always cuts a characters stats in half. ....
But this is _exactly_ what is called scaling...
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I believe Zoomzoom would prefer to see Dakkru's Curse reducing the stats of weak characters (close to their race defaults) only by less than their half, but by more than their half for maxed stats characters.
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But this is _exactly_ what is called scaling...
Not really. If you look at how taxes are scaled (in the US) people who make less money pay a lesser percentage of their income and people who make more pay a higher percentage. It's not the same percentage for everybody.
This is what we're talking about here. People with low stats should see a small percentage penalty and people with high stats should see a higher percentage penalty.
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I don't think that makes such a big difference. Assume the penalty factor p from the curse is a linear function of the attribute a, maybe p(a)=1-qa/400. If the maximum of the penalized attribute a*p(a) should not be in the range 0<a<400, then the strongest penalty factor you can use is q=1/2.
Much more interesting considerations are - debuffs on skill ranks,
- a lowered gain of practice and experience
- or a penalty that acts on all rolls/ save throws / random ranges.
After all, lowered stats don't necessarily lower your ability to hunt or train, but greatly enhance your gain of experience.
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One can devise non-linear scaling functions of any kind, up to step functions with zero penalty below a certain attribute value and a full value above that. But in common-sense scaling means a simple factor, which is 1/2 in our case.
I firmly believe that these points form a useless discussion, with much ado about (almost) nothing. If really needed one could implement a logistic function with (Bonifarzia's notation) attribute a, penalty p(a) with
p(a) = M+A/(1+exp((a-s)/w)), where A+M is the maximum penalty for high values of a, M the minimum penalty for zero attribute, w sets the width of the increase and s the the midpoint of the change. For small w you have a step at s, for large w you have a linear small slope, and for intermediate values there is an s-shaped increase of the penalty.
Large w and negative M can simulate a linear increase or a proportional one like the now used factor of 0.5.
More complicated models can be found :)
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When I was new DR was a very scarey place:
1) my version was almost always very dark. I learned to carry a torch at all times (didn't always work well).
2) I spent a lot of time in there due to my habit of running off cliffs (which I still do).
3) There have been some very interesting RPs in that particular place, not all of them nice to a newbie, but most really fun! Call it a learning curve.
4) We didn't have mounts.
5) We didn't have storage.
THIS.
I miss those times in DR :love:
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Welcome to the forums NOW. :)
Lolitra and Hagarath in the DR was an exciting time as well.
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Not really. If you look at how taxes are scaled (in the US) people who make less money pay a lesser percentage of their income and people who make more pay a higher percentage. It's not the same percentage for everybody.
You are trying to use the US Tax System as a standard for determining what's fair?!
Haaaa ha hah ha ha *cackle* ha ha ha *piggysnort* ha ha...
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I personally don't see a problem with Dakkrus curse. I normally use the time waiting for it to lift to review unfinished quests, write in my in-game journal or I 'Alt-Tab' out of the game and catch up on the forum or FB, email etc.
It's also a good time to chat, either in the gossip channel or to new players who just pop into existence right before my eyes. Several times, some friendly stranger has come along and cast a Strength spell on my character, allowing me to get to Harns storage and unburden myself.
I agree it can be annoying when you are in the middle of something and you have to wait it out, but as I have yet to find anything in the game that is time-sensitive, it is no more annoying than running out of Stamina while mining/harvesting/running etc.
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Wiping dust of a year off, Rigwyn... :-\
Well, 666 posts. Explains.
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Oops :o ;D Not sure how I managed to do that.... :-[
And as for the mark of the beast, if only I knew.... dammit. I would have saved that post for something special.
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Not really. If you look at how taxes are scaled (in the US) people who make less money pay a lesser percentage of their income and people who make more pay a higher percentage. It's not the same percentage for everybody.
You are trying to use the US Tax System as a standard for determining what's fair?!
Haaaa ha hah ha ha *cackle* ha ha ha *piggysnort* ha ha...
Just to be clear, are you proposing that everyone should pay the same percentage in their taxes???
And no, I was not defending the tax code. I was explaining the definition of the word "scaling."
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And no, I was not defending the tax code. I was explaining the definition of the word "scaling."
by definition a linear function "scale" :P
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And here I thought scaling was what you do to certain fish before you cook them :)
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Not really. If you look at how taxes are scaled (in the US) people who make less money pay a lesser percentage of their income and people who make more pay a higher percentage. It's not the same percentage for everybody.
You are trying to use the US Tax System as a standard for determining what's fair?!
Haaaa ha hah ha ha *cackle* ha ha ha *piggysnort* ha ha...
Just to be clear, are you proposing that everyone should pay the same percentage in their taxes???
And no, I was not defending the tax code. I was explaining the definition of the word "scaling."
As for having a flat tax rate, I really don't know if that would work or not, but that's another topic.
What I found odd about comparing the tax code to the rationale used to determine the time that dakkru's cure should last is that it would be far simpler to propose that it follow a simple curve or slope. I still don't quite agree with the idea though as I don't think it makes much sense from an in-character perspective. Would Dakkru really show pity on those with lower stats and lift her curse a little earlier? Also, from an IC point of view, how would stats affect the intensity and duration of her curse? Is her power relatively absolute or does the character have some ability to resist? Given that she is a goddess, I don't think that a character could really resist her power much... but that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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As for having a flat tax rate, I really don't know if that would work or not, but that's another topic.
What I found odd about comparing the tax code to the rationale used to determine the time that dakkru's cure should last is that it would be far simpler to propose that it follow a simple curve or slope. I still don't quite agree with the idea though as I don't think it makes much sense from an in-character perspective. Would Dakkru really show pity on those with lower stats and lift her curse a little earlier? Also, from an IC point of view, how would stats affect the intensity and duration of her curse? Is her power relatively absolute or does the character have some ability to resist? Given that she is a goddess, I don't think that a character could really resist her power much... but that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
She's a goddess, no mortal can resist her power, especially within the boundaries of her domain.
That said... could we keep tax rates out of this discussion? :P
There could be tons of things to be said about taxes but it's not something even remotely related to the topic.
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You are trying to use the US Tax System as a standard for determining what's fair?!
Haaaa ha hah ha ha *cackle* ha ha ha *piggysnort* ha ha...
Nova piggysnorts as well.
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What I found odd about comparing the tax code to the rationale used to determine the time that dakkru's cure should last is that it would be far simpler to propose that it follow a simple curve or slope. I still don't quite agree with the idea though as I don't think it makes much sense from an in-character perspective. Would Dakkru really show pity on those with lower stats and lift her curse a little earlier? Also, from an IC point of view, how would stats affect the intensity and duration of her curse? Is her power relatively absolute or does the character have some ability to resist? Given that she is a goddess, I don't think that a character could really resist her power much... but that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
From an in character perspective, we have no idea why a goddess would take pity on weaklings. Or why she wouldn't. Considering I (and I'm assuming everyone else :P ) am a mortal I have no comprehension of what goes on in the mind of a god.
From an OOC perspective my point was that it would make things easier on newer players. Cutting strength from 300 to 150 is not that big of a deal. You can still carry all your equipment and then some. Cutting a new players strength from 60 to 30 is extremely debilitating. So having a smaller penalty for weaker players will make it a little easier on them. Nothing is more boring for a new player than being forced to sit still for 30 minutes because they glitched off a cliff or got killed by a monster on the road. That definitely doesn't help keep them in the game.
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Since my arrival on PS (18.Jun.2010) my total visits to the DR has been 34 times. Yeah I keep notes on each death. That is a little less than once a month. This thread is irrelevant.
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It's not irrelevant to the new player who started this thread who quit the game because of Dakkru's curse.
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It's a curse, goddammit. It's supposed to suck!
Ngwyankk: Oh woe is me. I have Bubonic Plague and now I shall die a virgin!
Nlthronpth: ROFLMAO!. I got it too yo, but I'm a noob so it only lasted for like 1.875 minutes at %6.25 severity.
:)
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Unfortunately if you took away the curse it would detract from in-game mechanics that support RP/immersion. But on the other hand it helps casual gamers. Which is really a conflict in all games, between the core players and the casuals.
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The point is right now it ONLY hurts new players. When I die I can still carry all of my armor and equipment plus a hundred or so kg of stuff. I can still spam spells at monsters. Sure, my max magic is lower, but I have stacks and stacks of potions for that. My combat stats are lower, but my high quality armor and skills mean I still barely get hurt unless I fight the real tough ones. Plus it's easy enough not to get hit often.
But for new players, they end up not even able to carry their weapons and equipment. So they have to tediously drop things and edge their way to Harny or sit there and do nothing for a half hour. The stat debuffs can literally mean that they can't cast spells until it wears off because their magic bar isn't big enough for even a single spell. They can't carry enough to make it worth mining or gathering materials. For someone just starting it can really ruin the game experience. So much so that someone came and posted on the forum telling you this is why they quit.
Note this is ESPECIALLY frustrating for new players when the death is not the players fault, like when lag while running causes them to glitch off a cliff or when the game randomly crashes during a fight and the player finds their char in the DR upon the next login.
What about a compromise? What if all stats were cut in half still, but carry weight stays unchanged, or changed by a smaller amount?
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Is it possible for the curse to only affect accounts after a certain amount of play time logged?
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Is it possible for the curse to only affect accounts after a certain amount of play time logged?
it does....
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Really? I haven't played a new character in a year. If so, then the time might need an extension.
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Last time I checked, noob characters were less prone to tiring out. Its not like the old days where you were constantly having to rest.
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I remember those days. Those were the good -- wait, those days kind of sucked! :P
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What, don't you miss the jokes about "Smoking" and being out of breath?
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The curse is just there to keep the DR from being a highway like in the past, so there has to be something penalizing... We know for a fact that it gets even less respect without a penalty. But it really doesn't matter how you slice it mechanically, either the DR will be an even easier revolving door thus further diminishing respect for it, or someone is going to complain that some new person is too burdened by the death mechanics be it curse, DR expansion, or some other method. The real question is actually which is more important, trying to make it completely easy on the new people that will give up after dying or maintaining some settings/gameplay harmony.
I don't mean to be rude or anything but that is the actual underlying problem. It's not so much that I have anything against making it easier for new players but I guarantee you that no matter how much you tweak the mechanics, someone will still feel exactly the same about the change. For those that may not remember, the curse was already tweaked at least once because it was too hard on new players.
I think Ralua just needs someone to help out. I've played on many characters and most of them untrained but it was typically not a problem on those rare occasions when I died. Crashing in the DR was usually my concern. I think it is a matter of getting better information to new players so they can cope with it. For instance, maybe new people should get blatant Avoid this monster! warnings for mobs they for sure can't handle, a proximity warning for when a mob that out classes you is approaching, a warning for eating after indigestion, a warning for getting too close to a tall ledge, and so on. That way, they are more aware of what can kill their character. Once you know what can kill you, it is much easier to avoid the more aggravating deaths.
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People take this stuff way too seriously. Its not like you are going to like... die and not come back to life or something - or like PS is going to delete your account and block your ip address.
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And that is why the curse exists and the DR gets no respect... everyone knows you can redo. ;) But there has be a way to ease the aggravation without lifting the penalty. Maybe give a perk to something like crafts so that they have reason to be mindful when out about. For instance, never carry more than half your capacity but keep a hammer so that if you do die, when you get back and your "mind is cleared and enlightened" you can put it to good use.
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I concur.
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Better yet, make it so you need to kill someone else to get out >.>
That hammer could really be put to good use.
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That would just prompt people to go around killing other people just to make sure there is someone else in the DR in case they go... then it'd really be a revolving door and a bloodbath on either side. :P
Set up a pond in the DR and make people go fishing for Get Out of DR Free Tokens. They can either wait around and fish up a token or they can run through and suffer the penalty.
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O_o
How about people bake a pink cupcake with spinkles for Dakkru to get out?
(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/346/8/f/bitches_love_them_cupcakes_by_egloo422-d5nua7q.jpg)
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Pony impostors... >.>
*banishes Rigwyn to the DR with no cupcakes or Tokens*
Although that raises the possibility of having dead players making offerings to assuage Dakkru so that they can leave with no curse. Just make sure everything for it is in the DR and that it takes up an equivalent amount of time then it all works out the same. Not to mention it gives people something to do other than sit and wait if they are overloaded for dying.
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Create a resurrection spell so that if you die, you have 1 RL day to resurrect. Else, you go to Dakkru's Realm, and come back as a spirit, and you need to find your body, but you can only walk at the ludicrous walk speed they've given us.
I totally did not steal this idea from WoW
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I've often thought there should be some way to give an offering or prayer to Dakkru that diminishes or eliminates the curse, especially since some quests and skills require you to go to the DR to advance. Make it so it only works a percentage of time or only once every so many days (in game or in RL). "Dakkru takes pity on your poor soul and returns you to life without a curse." "Dakkru ignores your plea." "Dakkru is annoyed by your frequent trips through the Death Realm and begging for mercy and doubles the curse."
Considering that players respawn next to Harquist's smithy and can drop stuff without worrying about someone taking it while they put stuff in storage, I don't see it as a major problem. I was usually able to find something to do to pass the time while waited for the curse to lift.
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This "risky prayer" is a funny idea. Like it. :thumbup:
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Uness I am terribly mistaken, to Dakkru, there is no such thing as a noob ( new players are an ooc concept ) and if you read about her in the DR books, she does not come across as someone who would show such pity. This is not the virgin mary dressed in lacy goth attire with black fingernails and black emo lipstick. This is someone entirely different. Read the books the next time you are in the DR. ;)
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I never suggested Dakkru ICly "takes pity" on new players. Just that the curse has slightly different effects. After all it stands to reason that a weakness curse is going to be more debilitating to a character of great strength. Or a stupidity curse has a greater effect on a genius than on someone who's already stupid.
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i'm with Riggy the Dakkru I read about couldn't care less about any form of compassion as humans understand it. BUT the idea of doing some quest/task to get out is cool, there could be an alchemy npc down there you have to do something for ... and I like the variable response idea a lot- either you get out with some relief from the npc (not from Dakkru) or you get out with the curse as usual, or you get out with double the curse, yeah, arbitrary, non ethically based punishment. AND (who will slap me down for this) what if the punishment time back on DomeEarth increases with your stats- the DR visit being the one place where you can't healing flash yourself out of trouble?!
YIKES!! No more /die ing on the BDs to cut down travel time for us grinders and levelers!!! HAHAHAHA :devil: :devil: