PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Venalan on August 10, 2013, 09:37:55 pm
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Hey guys.
This week all the hard work from those involved in making the new tutorial final got to stage one where we released it, or most of it. One thing which is very important is the new help file you can get HERE (https://www.dropbox.com/s/mfkr19f0buvjf5c/help.xml). It will be available in the next update/release. I really wanted it to be out with the rest of the tutorial but it wasn't to be.
If you want to see it. Click the link which will open it, then you just download it. Once you have it you need to go to the folder where you installed PlaneShift, [ ../program files/PlaneShift/data ] in windows. And just replace the old help.xml file with the new one. Restart the client and when you open the help window next time it will all be there. It's a big improvement so you should all get it. And don't worry about messing up you can just repair the client and it will download the old help file if for some reason it doesn't work.
I've had a few comments back from a few players so far, many of those things I've already corrected and maybe later this week I will ask for the quests to be mirrored again. But what I would like now is to get feed back from people who have done.
Do you love it?
Do you loth it?
Which bits do you love?
Which bits do you hate?
Do the "information" sections make it easier to learn the basics?
Do you think the "information" sections are too long?
Should the the "information" sections be broken up into shorter lines or removed all together maybe into onscreen gold man windows?
Is there information the quests miss out on which players really need? (I know the missing mention to crafting books is one of these which I have already corrected)
Are some quests too long?
Are some bits unclear?
Would some npcs items look better with a little more added to them?
I want people to tear into what we have done. As this place is really important.
If there are clearly good ideas I will apply them immediately (pending release). If there are ideas which are agreed upon by many we will look at working them in.
I would be really really interested in hearing NEW PLAYERS responses to the new tutorial. Their opinions are the ones which really matter. If you have some in your guild or alliance or meet them while playing please ask them to come here and tell us what they think.
Because it's likely we will be tweaking the quests for the next few weeks any changes I make based on responses here I will make known.
With the new tutorial done and released an updated walk through can be found here for any players needing help
http://planeshift.top-ix.org/pswiki/index.php?title=Tutorial_Walk_Through
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Two comments from another thread.
I look a quick look. Here are some first impressions:
* It looks nice - like you are walking through a street market.
* I like the fact that Abelia does not shout at you like a desperate car salesman the moment you arrive. You have some time to look around before getting messages in the NPC tab about Abelia being the starting point.
* Silaces greeted me. This is a very nice touch, however it would be better if she could respond to some basic things that a newbie might say... like:
Hi
Hello
I'm new
Who are you
Where am I?
I am MegaCthuluzon Prime, twisted guardian of the eight dimension and personal saviour of deformed puppies and three eyed kittens.
Even a blanket answer that pre-emptively answers a few questions might be better than "This npc has no quest for you but may be able to answer other questions"
If she is going to greet noobs, then why not make her offer a very basic quest? Just something to think about.
I will add KAs to her right now. A basic quest could be done, but she was really just there to make it seem more alive with someone walking about.
I was annoyed by her greets every time she walked by. I didn't even try to engage with her. I did not see a need for her at all.
Now that i think on it the tutorial world is like a prison and she is the one keeping the trustees (the NPCs offering quests) in line, the players being the prisoners getting released into the real world. I'm sure it is just a passing conceit on my part and nobody else would think that without prompting. :)
That's not quite what we were going for, perhaps we could have her 'remember' greeting you and only do it once in a while and not every time. I would need to ask eonwind about it.
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I may have to be sent to that area by a GM to get to know it...
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The door by the windowless tower will let you in. And it now seems all tutorial quests have been deleted so you can redo them. Lots of players were running about in there today.
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It should also be noted that most of those crafting books are handed out in the various quests in the crafting chain. So in "Introduction to Crafting", Harnquist now talks about them and gives you some clues on where to get them.
Of course, for those of you who have already done that quest, you won't be able to do it now, and it doesn't talk about the mechanics, but for newbies, hopefully it will help answer those questions.
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It's been mentioned to me that players didn't even understand that they needed books for crafting so I've been looking at neave's quest to add in details about how and where to get them. Basically "go see harn for instruction books".
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Harnquist should run for Octarch. He's the most important person in the Dome...
;D
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I think it was a nice improvement. Other than the Silaces problems I have no major gripes. I appreciated all the different items spread around the NPCs, and I liked Telzanna better than Xorgan. I only encountered two small things. One was an information message that caused the chat bubble to scroll, which I thought was odd. It was the one from Xenak about roleplay, which I think is the longest one. I don't think it's much of an issue, I just didn't know the chat bubbles had scroll bars. The other one was Ibhaar. He didn't seem to know anything about rivnaks, and I wish he did because I don't know anything about them either.
Harnquist should run for Octarch. He's the most important person in the Dome...
;D
I think he prefers to be the puppetmaster behind the scenes. Maybe he isn't simply a blacksmith, but something entirely more sinister... :D
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So I went through the tutorial with a new character this morning. Aside from my comment about needing a sign to tutorial land, here is feedback.
Do you love it?
Yes
Do you loth it?
No
Which bits do you love?
There are several things that I like, specifically:
* You can return to the tutorial world.
* Other players can enter the tutorial
* Being given a glyph and weapon of your choosing
* The quality and quantity of information given
* The ease of completing the tutorial
* The extra OOC info given such as references to the help section
* The book given at the end - this is a big plus
Which bits do you hate?
I hate nothing, but I think that the chat bubble dialogue is a little fast.
Do the "information" sections make it easier to learn the basics?
Yes
Do you think the "information" sections are too long?
This is tricky. You want to give lots of information, but with as few words as possible. I think you did this very well. I would not reduce the amount of information given to shorten it, but if it can be compressed further, then that might be good. Its a little long winded, but everything said is worth saying.
Should the the "information" sections be broken up into shorter lines or removed all together maybe into onscreen gold man windows?
More pauses between sentences might make the reading pace a little more comfortable, though too much will make it a drag. This is a catch 22.
Is there information the quests miss out on which players really need? (I know the missing mention to crafting books is one of these which I have already corrected)
I don't think so.
Are some quests too long?
I think its a necessary evil.
Are some bits unclear?
I didn't think so.
Would some npcs items look better with a little more added to them?
Not that I noticed.
One thing that is a little iffy is the last trainer's dialogue about IC/OOC information. From start to end, the tutorial is presented in an IC voice. You are lead to believe that you are talking to characters -- this is great. You even illustrate with the magic trainer that the character's logic is different from the player' logic via the explanation for why the apple reappears. The last trainer steps out of character and breaks this when she talks about OOC vs IC informaiton - the whole topic can only be discussed from an OOC point of view as it does not exist in characterland. But how do you discuss this with a character? The only way I could imagine this would be for the character to deliberately suspend their acting - in a very obvious way - and talk to you as a player and not a character. A very deliberate transition like this might actually help to reinforce this distinction... This is a tiny point. I think it was all made quite clear otherwise.
Aside from this tiny technical point, I think this was presented and explained excellently.
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It might be nice if when mentioning the initial combat trainers those in other towns were mentioned as well. This would show to the new player that there might be options other than returning to hydlaa to train if they level closer to the other towns. I am pretty certain there are 0 level trainers in oja leftover from when enkis spawned there and there might be one or two in gugrontid.
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made a new character and gave it a try. Lots of good things but why a drum? I also like the fact that the character gets some training in combat and magic. It is a bit long, but might not seem that bad for a new player. The shock was getting only 3 PP and 600 tria, but that seems to be made up for by pointing them to people with quests.
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@ Dihenis
That might be a resolution thing, but I'm thinking of breaking the text up so it doesn't appear all at once. I'll look into it.
@ Rigwyn
Thanks a lot for answering it all point by point.
The idea I went for was to get Telzanna to talk about acting like a profession within PS and to talk about how you would go about acting in a way that would be entertaining. So kinda talking about an RP in an RP.. a bit Inception-y. The idea came from talking with Illysia some time ago when we discussed having IC acting lessons in PS, to allow players to RP something they would never do normally which would keep essentially a break in character completely IC.
@ bilbous
A nice idea I'll look to see if enough trainers are still about to let some sit in another city from the start and have enough trainers there to keep them busy.
@ cdmoreland
A drum... I laughed when I had her drumming along and talking to you :D
There are actually no PP/Tria rewards for any of the quests. I'll add PPs and maybe let Ibhaar buy rat hides.
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All in all I'm pleased this has all gone down so well with nothing more than minor comments and no big complaints.
Please keep getting people to reply here, I really want as many people as possible to post.
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I ran through all the tutorial quests with an old character, pretending I'm new. :P
It felt much more solid than the old tutorial, and definitely much more immersing. One negative point, it still felt pretty long, I think I would have pressed myself as a new player to read through it but I don't think that would be the case for any new, hurried player. Good thing you can skip though the quests and return later.
About the fenki guard, it felt kinda weird she was greeting me, an unknown newcomer, instead of the npcs she sees every day. Just something to keep in mind, perhaps a guard shouldn't be all friendly and nice to any new lad or lass that arrives, aren't guards supposed to be a little investigative and alert when a crowd of who-knows-what-kind-of-weirdo-refugees come in fleeing from an invasion (are they all of them?)
We sure want a friendly environment for newbies but also a consistent one. Where is all the "I'm watching you " and "Don't cause any trouble" remarks? (FYI: TES games traditionally start off trying to chop your head off and people still love it!)
I personally liked the play of the last NPC, between IC and OOC, very much, given how funny she was and everything. It would be really nice though if she gave a filled music track and instructions on how to play music, perhaps some basic music tracks should be made available from the game for aspiring musicians but that's another story...
Overall it was a very interesting read and totally planeshift-style! I'd rate it surely over average for this game's opening. :)
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It would be really nice though if she gave a filled music track and instructions on how to play music, perhaps some basic music tracks should be made available from the game for aspiring musicians but that's another story...
I would say make this an optional quest outside of the tutorial, and have the person in the tutorial point you there. The in-game music seems sort of a niche thing and there's no point taking the time introducing every new player to it if only a handful will be interested.
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Funny, when I did the tutorial, I was hoping that I would not need to complete a music instrument lesson. The thought of Hydlaa being filled with newbs with drums was rather amusing, I admit.
I like how Abelia tells you that you are from outside and entering Hydlaa. This makes a lot of sense RP-wise. What is good too is that the tutorial gives you some time to think about who and what your character is - or will become.
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I think the new items in the tutorial make it look more like a part of the city :), really like the new look \\o//
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Typo in a book title:
Lilbrary Announcement
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Another few in the INFORMATION part of Telzanna:
... you can right click on one and choose the "BYE BUY/SELL" icon...
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Typo in a book title:
Lilbrary Announcement
__
Another few in the INFORMATION part of Telzanna:
Even those of us where English is our first (and in my case, only) language have trouble! ;D
... you can right click on one and choose the "BYE BUY/SELL" icon...
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I enjoyed many, many aspects of the new welcome area - thank you, devs, for your hard work! :)
likes:
overall, i think the mood is set really well, the dialogue and information natural and relevant - everything comes together to position a character and a world - and a character in a world - adeptly. at last! a reason for picking up and honing those combat skills (besides that the law mandates self-protection or that the beasts and the trainers "are there").
dislikes - and it might just be me:
- yes the OOC information at the end of NPC dialogue seems long and obtrusive. i favour the 'golden man' icon (or some other icon that when clicked opens the information in a separate small window).
- Ibhaar wants the rats killed just because his mount is skittish? well, okaaay, but perhaps if he mentioned the threat of disease or plague it would tie in better with a couple of in-game quests ...
- I'm not sure the roleplaying discussion works, but I understand where Telzanna is coming from and it's certainly a creative way to make such a discussion IC. It felt like a character might respond by not being interested in discussing acting ("cos that's just for thesps and i'm a war-war-warrior"), or by looking to join a drama troupe in game. I'd be happy if Telzanna simply raved about the many choices and paths open to the newcomer - sure, even more so than she already does - because this makes a player think about the kind of character they could have. On that note, might I suggest encouraging the writing of a description, however basic. (Sorry if it's already there and I missed it.) OOC roleplaying instructions could be covered by the clickable icon. This might also help with the last thing, which is
- Xenak's line of dialogue, referring to staying in character, seems OOC: "Try and stick as closely as possible to that as people here are very welcoming to those who stick to their character."
But yes, these are small concerns. Overall it's such a good experience that I'm considering having a character permanently live in the tutorial.
just kidding.
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Overall it's such a good experience that I'm considering having a character permanently live in the tutorial.
just kidding.
There's nothing wrong with hanging around in tutorial land to help out..... or make it look like lots of people are joining.
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I have mixed feelings about the tutorial in which I just experienced last night.
Did not like:
~There was far too much text to read, which was mostly fluff.
~There was not a way to read the text faster, like click on the speech bubbles to move to the next faster, or something like that.
~Would like to have picked an instrument, rather than everyone get a drum.
~Would liked to have had a taste of a few more skills like cooking, fishing, alchemy.
Loved:
~The story of the characters and their personalities.
~Getting a taste of some of the elements in the game like fighting, magic, and blacksmithing.
~It was easy to navigate from one place to the next and to follow quests.
~The pop ups explaining how to do certain things.
~The overall feel, story, characters, graphics, ambiance, were all wonderful.