PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kaerli_Stronwylle on September 01, 2013, 12:08:01 am
-
One thing with the CavernBelly event: Kaerli has been known to feed people whole Ulbers before (besides: the main character you describe exists, he's called Celrau and is a little Consumer in a fur coat!)
-
a little Consumer in a fur coat? ::|
-
Please, don't OOCly plan an event.
Just make your character attempt to achieve a goal based on what he or she desires or needs. Your character can have small, simple goals, or huge complex goals that require the assistance of other characters. Do whatever is suitable for the character.
If you character does not have goals then they are far too shallow for running an event.
In real life, we can set goals and try to accomplish them. We can even attempt to control the outcome, but ultimately, the outcome is not in our hands. What happens happens. When shit happens, we don't retcon, we deal with it in our own way- whether it's by sulking in a corner, crying on someone's shoulder, or reformulating our plans and trying again.
No OOC planning means:
A. Nobody needs to stay on the railroad that you laid down for everyone.
B. Other characters can do as they will ICly.
C. Nobody gets to complain about the RP not happening the *right* way... because there is no *right* or *wrong* way.
-
I'd disagree. Things get retconned/ignored out of necessity sometimes. For instance, if someone comes through during your event and has diarrhea all over everyone, the earnest/honest intent of the RPer does not make it any less godmodding and people will ignore it even if the person was not intending to godmod to sap the fun from other players. Or maybe there is a misunderstanding and the part RPed shouldn't have logically happened in the context of the RP it is a part of. Things happen and people have different immersion sensitivities.
Overall, I'd say be clear about your RP and what you are trying to do, but don't forget to communicate so that people can decide ahead of time if they want/can be a part of it.
People RP differently since there is no inherent right or wrong and that means people have a right to decide how their RP is going to go if they want... it's their RP. ;) But clarity provides the common ground that lets people play nice with each other. So, if you can't establish a common ground with an RP it's probably best to just let it pass. Not everyone can RP with every other RP style.
-
and that means people have a right to decide how their RP is going to go if they want... it's their RP. ;)
Yeah, this is called railroading. It makes the RP feel unnatural and puts players on eggshells. They end up worrying about saying or doing the wrong thing.
Pro tip: Don't do it or you'll look like a noob ;)
-
If you're going to roleplay, stop planning and just do it. Give players something to react to. Something to challenge them. Something to solve, defeat, overcome.
And those ideas are horribly overdone. Let's please not ever.
Edit: The last one gave me reflux.
-
Good job Illysia a nice set of ideas to work on for people willing to play events for other peoples. :thumbup:
And those ideas are horribly overdone. Let's please not ever.
Edit: The last one gave me reflux.
I'm sure you have a better, exiting and groundbreaking ideas for events... if so why don't you just write them down in a different thread for everyone to shred apart like you're doing with Illisia's idea?
If not you better refrain from speaking at all...
-
and that means people have a right to decide how their RP is going to go if they want... it's their RP. ;)
Yeah, this is called railroading. It makes the RP feel unnatural and puts players on eggshells. They end up worrying about saying or doing the wrong thing.
Pro tip: Don't do it or you'll look like a noob ;)
One thing I've learned in this game is that any "rule" can be bent or broken if done artfully enough. More importantly, if people find something they like to latch on to, they will overlook stuff to a certain degree. Deciding from the beginning that at the end of the event the monster will be vanquished is not railroading necessarily. It allows for resolution that people who can't play more than an hour at a time can use. Alternatively, you can leave a way out mid stream if it looks like you might end up having use for the monster even though it was initially supposed to be a one shot. It's a matter of flexibility and skill not some arbitrary rule of RP written in stone.
People often argue in favor of completely open ended RP but they often peter out without getting fully explored and it makes them seem cheaper than necessary because from the outside it was a nebulous issue to begin with and then it may or may not end up going anywhere. Not to mention leaving it completely open ended means more work for the one doing the events and we see how many people are stepping up for doing events as it is. ;) And yes, I have done completely open ended stuff before. It was fun for others but frustrating to keep track of because it meant way more work for me. In the end my end of the plans failed because of OOC issues not IC issue but since it was all allowed to proceed whatever the case it stood and due to more OOC issue there wasn't even anyway to really build on it. In the end, completely open ended stuff is not the holy grail of RP either.
You can plan stuff OOCly without railroading, people can not have fun while doing something open endedly, and you can also skip an event if it really rubs your fur backwards... very simple. But in any case it shouldn't bother you since you can run your own events. ;)
If you're going to roleplay, stop planning and just do it. Give players something to react to. Something to challenge them. Something to solve, defeat, overcome.
And those ideas are horribly overdone. Let's please not ever.
Edit: The last one gave me reflux.
Because just RPing on its own has recovered numbers and interest so much better than planning events over the years. /sarcasm ;)
But seriously, my ideas are meant to cater to specific issues and give them a chance where they may normally get overlooked or pigeonholed into the same niche every time. For instance, the idea is to give cooks; baddies that are not going with the overused "I'm crazy so I kill people" cliche; doctor, healers, and alchemists; and newbies a chance at the spotlight. No offense, but most events in game follow one of two patterns. They are either ice cream socials or let's find out why there are more bodies than usual lying around. Not that there is anything wrong with those events, but some variation doesn't hurt. Sorry if it isn't serious or eat all the noobs enough for you.
Good job Illysia a nice set of ideas to work on for people willing to play events for other peoples. :thumbup:
And those ideas are horribly overdone. Let's please not ever.
Edit: The last one gave me reflux.
I'm sure you have a better, exiting and groundbreaking ideas for events... if so why don't you just write them down in a different thread for everyone to shred apart like you're doing with Illisia's idea?
If not you better refrain from speaking at all...
Thank you. I'll post the rest of the ideas as I get around to writing it out. Two of the biggest hurdles I found in talking with people about running events is that they either don't have ideas or don't know how to start and that scares them out of even attempting an event... That and the behavior of displeased players of course. What I hope people realize is that it doesn't take a lot to start an event idea. The actual hard part is the details and getting people to help you pull it off.
Maybe it will convince people to sit down and write their own ideas out and they may just find they had more to work with than they thought.
As for Volki, no she doesn't like all this talking; she's a go-getter. So she just needs to pick a day and hold her own event and it will awesome because she knows everything that an event doesn't need to have. ;)
-
The event I like the most, by far, is your masquerade facade. In fact, it is the only one that I would be interested in participating in. The rest seem a bit unappealing to say the least (I'm really not trying to be offensive here). I found that RPing a Quarantine gets incredibly tedious, boring, monotonous etc. (I remember the days when a Klyros Cold went around the KJ. Not as fun or amusing as you might think.) It could certainly be done and would assume its success solely based on how many people you can get sick, or in other words, have participate. I find that there just isn't enough of an intellectual element to these RP's. I'm not talking about problem solving, but about the conversations and sentiments that derive from the plot.
As for the picnic with new domers, I think that an intimate mentor-ship is often more productive than a gathering of new players. It should also be noted that it is not 2009 any more, where new players just fall from trees.
I do really like your Masquerade idea, although it would require much preparation, advertisement, and at least 5 or 6 people to be a part of the 'circle of masked rapscallions'. :o This could involve more people than your typical story line, and could be played out in such a way where there is no real victim in the situation. I say this due to the fact that no matter how much 'good players' hate to be victims, the feeling is only surpassed by how much they love putting baddies to shame. In this event there is ample opportunity for both sides of the coin. (If RPed well of course.) It should be obvious that everyone attending will know what they are possibly getting themselves into ahead of time, OOCly. And if something is stolen, I have found to keep it 100% RP (unless agreed otherwise). People get unhappy if they are robbed for something real. Or as real as something can be in a digital RPG
Regardless of my opinions, I do appreciate that you have taken the time to write this up for people to follow. Even if none of these ideas are materialized, they may very well turn into guidelines for future stories, yet to unfold.
Anyways, I am really tired. Hopefully that was coherent enough to understand.
Edit: I'm no good with font sizes
-
Well if you'd like to go with the Masquerade idea, pitch the idea of doing it in game and see who you can get on board. You've already done some work in working out how many people and how to treat victims. See how easy it is to slip into event planning? ;)
If you don't like the other ideas that's fine. :) Truth be told, it's the players that can make or break an RP even more than the initial planning. There are RPs that I can run elsewhere that would never get off the ground in PS and vis versa. It comes down to your pool of characters, what people are willing to spend time on, and how creative people get in responding to the prompt you give. If you know you don't have the resources to successfully pull off an RP to where it is fun for those involved then oh well. Sometimes it really can't be helped.
Regardless of my opinions, I do appreciate that you have taken the time to write this up for people to follow. Even if none of these ideas are materialized, they may very well turn into guideline for future stories, yet to unfold.
Thank you. I've found that people find use for things like this at the oddest times, sometimes even years later so who knows. But maybe someone else might get bitten by the idea bug and might contribute their own ideas. After all, a variety of ideas means it's that much more likely one will catch the attention of someone ready to do an event.
-
I'm sure you have a better, exiting and groundbreaking ideas for events... if so why don't you just write them down in a different thread for everyone to shred apart like you're doing with Illisia's idea?
Because people don't write down roleplay ideas.
Sure, let me go ahead and write down my entire script before anyone's had a chance to play it! As soon as someone realizes they've seen the script before, the fun is lost. You'd know the end already. If I knew how to defeat a monster, solve a case, cure a plague, whatever, I'd probably find some way to speed the IC process. There's no novelty or mystery, so what is the point? And don't tell me roleplay doesn't require novelty. Novelty is the heart of roleplay.
Because just RPing on its own has recovered numbers and interest so much better than planning events over the years. /sarcasm ;)
As for roleplaying on your own, as a character, I honestly think that is better than having roleplay spelled out for you. This game has the strongest character-driven plots I've seen.
But seriously, my ideas are meant to cater to specific issues and give them a chance where they may normally get overlooked or pigeonholed into the same niche every time. For instance, the idea is to give cooks; baddies that are not going with the overused "I'm crazy so I kill people" cliche; doctor, healers, and alchemists; and newbies a chance at the spotlight. No offense, but most events in game follow one of two patterns. They are either ice cream socials or let's find out why there are more bodies than usual lying around. Not that there is anything wrong with those events, but some variation doesn't hurt. Sorry if it isn't serious or eat all the noobs enough for you.
Variation? That's exactly what it's lacking. These are cookie-cutter roleplays. There's no creativity. It's like you're trying to give us jobs rather than entertain us. And I feel calling them "events" is inappropriate. Roleplay is a series of events, not one. Events affect one another. You have a reference to one situation in another, for example, and somehow that helps solve an issue or possibly complicate it.
Don't force people into the spotlight. Not everyone wants to be there. (Especially noobs! They are meant to watch, learn, and participate once they feel ready.)
Thank you. I'll post the rest of the ideas as I get around to writing it out. Two of the biggest hurdles I found in talking with people about running events is that they either don't have ideas or don't know how to start and that scares them out of even attempting an event... That and the behavior of displeased players of course. What I hope people realize is that it doesn't take a lot to start an event idea. The actual hard part is the details and getting people to help you pull it off.
Maybe it will convince people to sit down and write their own ideas out and they may just find they had more to work with than they thought.
If coming up with ideas and running an "event" appears too daunting, then these players should not be orchestrating anything. There are those who want to essentially be a game master, while there are those who only want to play the adventures set out for them. That's just how it is.
Describing it as "more to work with than they thought" is not aiding your argument.
As for Volki, no she doesn't like all this talking; she's a go-getter. So she just needs to pick a day and hold her own event and it will awesome because she knows everything that an event doesn't need to have. ;)
Yeah, we don't need "events" like how you understand them...
I might as well go ahead and run my own roleplay. It would be awesome, though, if the game was more conducive to running RPs. This is the only reason I haven't bothered. Because it's too damn hard when all I can do is /me and /my. With one setting, I could entertain a number of players greater than the population of PS for longer than a month. On PS, that's impossible.
-
Well, I'll put it this way. It doesn't appeal to you and others that RP like you... and that's ok. There are people who can run events like the ones you like to do. But, I've successfully used this model to generate RP where others had fun. The Masqerade Ball was an event that was planned for at least 2 month in advance with predetermined outcome and specific things that could be done. Amazingly enough, holding it didn't kill the game.
But, if you are of the opinion RP can only be enjoyed one way then the long explanations I normally do to try to give people enough info to understand what I am doing is useless. I'll spare us both since I don't really have the energy these days for my old lectures. I'll just accept that you don't get the framework I am trying to establish. But I will say this, it is not a script it is a guideline, if you don't see more potential and room for customizing that's because you expect me to fill in all the blanks and do the work for you... Use your imagination or accept that you personally can't do anything with it. I can easily develop those ideas into more complex plots but the idea was start people off not to spoon feed them.
But let me see if I get this right from your post... To paraphrase: Don't do anything to try and boost RP in your own way unless you match my standard because newbies have nothing to contribute, players who don't match my standard of spontaneity don't have anything to contribute, and I would do more but I just don't feel I have my ideal circumstance... but that is still more of a contribution than actually running an event that I personally don't like the sound of.
I miss anything?
Trying to knock the legs out from under people is for sure not helpful. But oh well, that's part of why it is hard to keep interest in doing events here... The water looks more dangerous than it is due to people snapping at things that could be forgiven or are simply a difference in preference. Since I've had to pass on several events since they did not appeal to me, I feel no pain in saying that anyone that really objects to these ideas should simply avoid any events based on them. Problem solved.
-
Planned role-plays can be fun. This is fact, and it is irrefutable. Thousands of role-players across the globe can attest to it. You merely need to attentively scan role-play forums that litter the internet. End of argument. The mic drops.
-
Planned role-plays can be fun. This is fact, and it is irrefutable. Thousands of role-players across the globe can attest to it. You merely need to attentively scan role-play forums that litter the internet. End of argument. The mic drops.
You better not be talking to me, because I never once said planned roleplays were not fun. However, roleplays are not events in the way Illysia understands that term.
Illysia misunderstood 100% of what I said. She doesn't seem to be trying to understand, either. What she presented were not events (except for the Ball, obviously). They were simply roleplay ideas. Calling them events makes no sense, and neither does revealing her ideas before they've been executed.
Well, I'll put it this way. It doesn't appeal to you and others that RP like you... and that's ok.
What does this mean, even?
But let me see if I get this right from your post... To paraphrase: Don't do anything to try and boost RP in your own way unless you match my standard because newbies have nothing to contribute, players who don't match my standard of spontaneity don't have anything to contribute, and I would do more but I just don't feel I have my ideal circumstance... but that is still more of a contribution than actually running an event that I personally don't like the sound of.
I miss anything?
You missed everything. Like where I said noobs are meant to learn and watch until they feel ready to participate. Throwing inexperienced people in the spotlight is detrimental to practically every medium of entertainment everywhere. This is why noobs are usually separated from high level players in games. Also have no idea where I praised spontaneous roleplay since I'm not a big fan of spontaneity, as it's pretty much always illogical, annoying, and quickly forgotten. And finally, I have helped run roleplays before (on PS), which were very low-key, yet unfortunately failed because they were being led by very inexperienced roleplayers. In those, I realized how incredibly hard it is to run RP in this game, so I haven't bothered myself. But like I said, I might as well do it anyway. Just to get you to shut up.
Trying to knock the legs out from under people is for sure not helpful. But oh well, that's part of why it is hard to keep interest in doing events here... The water looks more dangerous than it is due to people snapping at things that could be forgiven or are simply a difference in preference. Since I've had to pass on several events since they did not appeal to me, I feel no pain in saying that anyone that really objects to these ideas should simply avoid any events based on them. Problem solved.
Can see you're trying to garner sympathy here. Look at my argument again. You think I'm attacking you, for whatever reason, possibly a "difference in play style". Well, I'm just disagreeing with you. It has nothing to do with "play style". I am telling you what works and what doesn't. Stop making speeches for once and listen to others.
-
...Yeah... not worth it. I am not going through my usual efforts to try to get everyone on board today. I used English Volki and at this point I'm not in the mood for English lessons as well. If you don't understand then fine... I have better things to do than argue over things that you feel the need to fight. I will continue the thread as I was intending, don't like it then feel free to remember to your gif as a valid option, and when in doubt better to take your own advice.
If you're going to roleplay, stop planning and just do it. Give players something to react to.
Although, I'd change stop planning to stop arguing. I have no intent of going through the usual run around on this forum with you.
Edit: Updated first post with two more events
-
Illysia: can't come up with valid, mature argument, so accuses players with different views of fighting.
The point of forums is to allow people to argue their points. You are making this an emotional matter. I am giving you a typical forum discussion, and you are twisting it and throwing it in my face. I'm done trying to help since you can't seem to argue your point without becoming personal. Please don't assume that because I disagree with your ideas that I dislike you, or whatever it is you believe. And don't you dare think for one second that you can post an idea without someone disagreeing. If you don't like it, stop posting on forums.
-
And that Volki is part of the problem. A discussion does not equal an argument. I understand that you are trying be helpful but the way you are doing it is trialsome and I have no extra patience or energy for hassling with you. There is nothing to discuss at this point. I do not agree with you and actually I don't HAVE to justify that to you. I disagree with people without it never becoming an argument all the time... I have no problem with disagreements but I AM NOT struggling with you on this. I actually don't have to answer for a blessed thing to you or bow to your opinion. The sooner you accept this the better.
Let me pass on two life lessons that will serve you well. One, listening to someone is not to be confused with obeying. Listening to you does not mean I have to do what you say. Two, explaining yourself is not a guarantee that anyone will agree with you. Look at the years of forum dissertations I've done of the years... case in point.
If you don't like what I am doing, do like the other people who don't care, find another part of the forum. That is being mature.
-
Sorry, but LOL. I'm guessing this is the only forum you use. That would not fly anywhere else. Respect other people, hear their arguments, and get off your high horse.
Arguments make up a discussion. You're not defending yourself. You're getting personal, insulting me as a person, instead of hearing my opinion and creating a counter argument. Congratulations, you've lost all respect from me.
I'm going to ignore this thread for now. Feel free to have the last word, as I assume you will. But now that I've said that, maybe you won't... Now that I've said that, maybe you will! Who knows, will Illysia feel the need to throw in one last quip?
-
Yes... feel better now? ;)
-
/me sits down with a bowl of popcorn to watch the fight.
:)
-
*pours salted evil on the popcorn*
I assume butter won't do.
-
Deciding from the beginning that at the end of the event the monster will be vanquished is not railroading necessarily.
Yeah... that's exactly what railroading is. You lay down the track and as a result, you predetermine the path of the train. Now that this has been done, any choice that deviates from the tracks is wrong or incorrect. It puts a limit on the player's freedom and they end up making their characters do what they think the runner expects them to do. If I'm going to imply to players that they should follow a certain path, then I might as well just play for them - and *correctly* too.
I don't think anyone really intends to do this, but this is what ends up happening.
The plot ideas are all fine but some assume a certain response to the conflict and outcome. If you remove all assumptions about how players will respond and how it will end and let players know that you are flexible enough that they can do as their character would, then you'll have a far more natural RP that's fun for everyone.
If you see that your idea can be trashed or broken by a player who has terribly different ideas ( assuming there is no meta gaming at play ), then perhaps your plan is too strict or too fragile. Perhaps you need to think it through a bit more.
-
Some people like to follow the cruise director around and others like to wander away to explore on their own.
more news and breaking stories at 11
-
While your basic points are not wrong you're extrapolating farther than these ideas are actually going. The destination is set the path is not. Many paths lead to the same end and the event is no more trashed because someone did something differently than the Ball was ruined because how players responded more or less made the plot irrelevant. The idea is give people something to do and a reason to be in game not to try and explore every single what-if in one event. To be fair, the larger the event the less likely you are to even have a wildly out there solution since most people will go with what the group decides even if a wild one occurs to them.
However there are even problems with assuming that an RP always has to be fully open ended and that you always have to take on the grand sum total of all possibility even when you try to plan even the slightest RP action. It makes it feel too burdensome to try to run events since you have to try to account for everything. Too much is expected for anyone that even attempts an event. It's why it's so burdensome even for you to run events. You make it so that it requires more of you than it needs to and it burns you out if you don't have enough return. You take on way more effort than you will get back. If nothing else, balance the equation. ;) Effort put in = RP return you can realistically expect for your investment.
You'd see more events overall if running events wasn't made like carrying Atlas' load. Not to mention, you'd see more variety because people wouldn't stick by the "safe" ideas and do mostly the same events over and over. People are scared of getting chewed out for a "failure" when a learning curve, or even an outright fail is not the end of the world. Even if the idea of predetermined ends gets your goat, it's an easier model for an event. If all else fails let people get some practice in and then maybe you'll have more people to work with who will go on to do the more complex open ended events. As it stands, people will never get experience in running events because the idea of even attempting one will be too scary or they will get shouted down if they don't do an event exactly like the ones preceding theirs.
Also, as I said earlier, flexibility... If you need to adjust an idea to change an outcome to work logically then do so. What's the point of being on hand for your own event if you aren't going to keep it going? Sometimes someone has to stop playing for a sec and actually manage the event. But I noticed something over the last few years Rig... We talk a lot about having options and players coming up with event breaking ideas and you know what the reality has been? It almost never happens... Most players stand around either wondering what to do or will pick the most obvious answer even if it is an open event and there are 50 million possibilities. Regardless of why it happens, it typically does. Larger scale events don't run like an RP with 4 to 10 people. It's why people who run complex RPs often complain that they don't get explored fully. How often can you remember a "baddie" character being met with "kill it" and "kill it faster" which bypasses the story? So rather than make a Sherlock case out of it, these ideas are straight forward. There is an overarching resolution but some wiggle room in how you get there.
But, if you have no use for the alternate paths to the same end then fine. If knowing the end result is too much strain for you to RP under then fine. Do like I had to do with dark events and events that could easily get hijacked into those themes, avoid. Not everyone can adapt to every kind of event. Or, if you prefer, modify the idea to better suit your tastes.
Some people like to follow the cruise director around and others like to wander away to explore on their own.
more news and breaking stories at 11
Exactly. As I've said, it's a matter of taste. ;) If it were inconceivable we wouldn't have these conversation periodically as the idea would never occur to anyone to do differently.
-
Now that it's back on topic... I agree completely with Rigwyn.
For example, there was this one GM-run event in which there was a character who owned another character as a slave. I stumbled across it in the beginning, and the number of players rose to about twenty. Somehow it lasted hours, and it didn't need to. I actually left before the end because it was so boring. Why was it so boring? Well, players kept coming up with ingenious ideas, each one equally capable of ending the conflict, but none were accepted by the GM because he wanted it to end one way, and one way only.
People don't like participating in roleplays with a pre-determined outcome. They want to change the future and have an effect.
Whenever I used to run roleplays, I never came up with one single ending. I'd think of several possible endings. But those weren't necessarily going to happen, either. It is possible, though, to lead players to a certain outcome if you play your cards right. Of course, you have to be subtle enough that they won't notice.
By the way, running roleplays is hard, and you're not supposed to expect some "return". For me, it's fun by itself, and I never got burnt out doing it. Even when players decided to turn everything upside-down, I'd go along with it. If my ideas and plans were destroyed, then so be it. As long as everyone else is having fun, I don't care. (Unless of course they're breaking the basic rules.)
-
Gm events... LOL
Gm's have certain restrictions that they need to work with. Their event ideas need to be approved by a lead gm or settings in advance. They have limitations on what they can give out and so on. As players, we have it a bit easier.
We have all seen some pretty horrible gm events or at least heard of them. Again, people say they feel artificial or like a game show.
Some things that spoil an rp:
* Too many people ( a handful of players is ideal for a single group/gathering )
* reliance on gifts to make an event or rp successful
* having predetermined endings
* using new, unfamiliar characters that nobody knows.
* railroading and steering the rp rather than letting the players actively shape it.
-
I used a GM event as an example because I don't feel like blaming any actual players for poopy roleplay. <_<
-
..Somehow it lasted hours, and it didn't need to...
...People don't like participating in roleplays with a pre-determined outcome. They want to change the future and have an effect...
Obviously they were still inclined to participate in the RP since they were still there at the event, so you've negated your own statement with that example. ;) People still wanted to see the how the solution lead to the end so obviously there was still something they felt they could work with. People will wander off when there is nothing else they want out of an event. It is that simple... Accept that those people felt at least slightly differently about it. Also, blanket statements such as people never do X are rarely true and this is another case of that. In the end, it's still a matter of style.
@Rigwyn: the title of the thread is "Event Ideas" Rig... that inherently means the idea is to have more than a handful of people. Not one of those ideas or any of the rest to follow are for a handful of people. ;)
If it makes you feel better think of the end as a goal. No RP need be set in stone but if you don't know what are heading for you are just wasting people's time and I hate when people waste my time because they feel like going on a magical mystery tour with no real idea of resolution.
-
Hahaha, no. Several people left, including myself. The only players who remained were there for the OOC reward (they were all power-levelers).
Get it now?
-
Ok, but let me put it this way. The thread is not changing. :) I know for a fact it can work different. If no one in PS can work with it then fine but I doubt that. However the matter resolves itself in that if you are right no one will try to do any of these events and you don't have to deal with it. But I suspect that not all of the people that can get with these kinds of RP have left the game
-
You can have a large event without having 50 players in close proximity talking at the same time. What I mean is when you have a few people having a conversation, it flows pretty well. Try having a conversation with 50 people. It does not scale well - especially when they all feel a need to say something - which I think was volki's point.
If you measure succss by the size of the crowd, then you will run into these scalability problems. Why did the older gm events feel like an over crowded version of jeopardy?
A. Uber prizes for the correct answer?
B. Huge crowds drawn in by the promise of gm prizes?
C. Players who can't rp for spit trying to "win the event"
D. Gms who are like "screw the story, we just need gm gear, prizes and /shout"
E. all of the above plus some
-
Ok, but let me put it this way. The thread is not changing. :) I know for a fact it can work different.
I :) know :) you :) never :) change :) your :) mind.
Do it, then. Try something that isn't a ball, a date night, or whatever it is you usually do. Try something with an actual conflict and see what happens.
-
@Rigwyn: That might be, but at this rate you need 50 players available at the same time to have that problem and that usually doesn't happen. See most of these ideas were fine when there were 200 people online at a time, but the thinking need to change on some counts to adapt to the new norm of 50 or so. Part of why you can't do better stories is you don't have the characters you need to develop the stories.
But you'll never get those characters if you don't get more people to interact with. One person with 50 alts won't cut it. The game needs ways to keep people in game longer. Events regardless of whether they are like Jeopardy or not keep people in game and that can allow for other things to happen.
People are going to have to get over the notion that things will correct themselves and they can just keep on like they usually do. Putting out what you usually do will get what you usually get. It's time to try a different tactic.
@Volki: I've already put in way more effort than you just in making a thread and I've already proven myself whether or not you like it. If anything you need to run an event before I even remotely have to prove anything to you. Use half the effort you put into arguing here into running an event rather than just talking and you just might help the game.
-
First of all, you have no idea what I've done in PS. Secondly, I have no idea what you mean when you say "event" since it doesn't follow anyone else's definition. Thirdly, since you seem to love getting personal, I want you to know that I've never enjoyed any events run by you. <insert passive-aggressive smiley> (Note that this has no bearing on my opinion of what you're trying to do here. It just means I don't enjoy your style.)
-
Please allow me to have enjoyed any of Illysia's events. They did not miss my expectations completely. I don't know if that was due to my level of expectations or her level of event management.
-
It just means I don't enjoy your style.
Otherwise known as do your own since it all boils down to style... thank you for finally arriving at the point. Let me distilll the real meaning of pages of dispute. Don't make demands that you aren't willing to execute yourself. The time you waste trying to get me to do it for you is better spent doing it yourself.
Please allow me to have enjoyed any of Illysia's events. They did not miss my expectations completely. I don't know if that was due to my level of expectations or her level of event management.
Thank you LigH. :)
-
Otherwise known as do your own since it all boils down to style... thank you for finally arriving at the point. Let me distilll the real meaning of pages of dispute. Don't make demands that you aren't willing to execute yourself. The time you waste trying to get me to do it for you is better spent doing it yourself.
I have no idea how you keep missing the point.
I believe I am very clear in what I am saying.
You speak English as a first language, yes?
I will break it down for you.
"I've never enjoyed any events run by you." This seems rude, doesn't it? But then...
"It just means I don't enjoy your style." Your style of roleplay. Your style of roleplay bores me. By this, I mean I do not enjoy sitting around chatting, listening to people on a stage, whatever it is you like to do. It is mundane to me. It's more of a personality thing than a roleplay thing. I enjoy quick action, complex plots, competition, etc.
This has nothing to do with how you run events.
"Note that this has no bearing on my opinion of what you're trying to do here." I even stated that the fact that I cannot enjoy your style has nothing to do with my argument here.
If you don't understand this, I am not bothering with you anymore, as I honestly think you must have an unexplainable personal vendetta against me or you are mentally challenged and making no effort to compensate.
-
This thread is based on that style it is about running events, therefore stop trying to change/derail the thread and put your efforts on creating what you don't find boring. If you dislike the idea, do better and be done with it. The original focus of this thread will be continued as I started it.
I might add that you were supposed already be ignoring this thread but you have done a wonderful job at that. It's not a personal vendetta, you are making a pest of yourself and I'm not in the mood to indulge it these days. If I could get some sleep I wouldn't even be dealing with this now. Feel what you want, but please just find someone else to pester.
-
a little Consumer in a fur coat? ::|
Once you meet Celrau IG, you'll figure out where that remark came from. ;)
-
Volki re the GM event you talked about above. The event didn't run on for so long because there was a predetermined outcome that the GMs were trying to achieve. The event ran on for so long because the players involved couldn't decide which of the two characters to believe and thus couldn't come up with a course of action that the majority of the players could agree upon. Yes the GMs were trying to get the majority of the players in the event to side with their character and thus come to a conclusion that was best for their character in the event. The only "problem" with the event was that the players were pretty much evenly split on which GM character was telling the truth so the players couldn't come up with a course of action. When GM events are developed there are several possible outcomes that are considered and outlined based on different actions the players might take. There is no set determination that a GM event has to end in a certain way.
-
a little Consumer in a fur coat? ::|
Once you meet Celrau IG, you'll figure out where that remark came from. ;)
That sounds ... creepy o.O
-
@Illysia, until you can see past your prejudices, I am not going to respond to you.
@Sarva, I can see several issues with the roleplay you described. :/ You say that it didn't run on for so long due to a predetermined outcome, but that's what I'm understanding the problem to be. If we must rely on a variable that could potentially come up with no outcome (who believes who being evenly matched), then there's an issue. Eventually someone, hopefully a player, should be able to come up with an idea that ignores the variable. Unfortunately, those ideas were shot down by both GM characters.
That was my problem with the event. If it was that way on purpose, then I have another problem with it. Humans are fluid and able to adapt. If an attempt to solve an issue does not work, they'll go at it from a different angle. But when all other attempts are shut down at the conception, and they are forced to use their original method, they'll become frustrated. When that original method fails again and again, they give up.
-
Gm events... LOL
Gm's have certain restrictions that they need to work with. Their event ideas need to be approved by a lead gm or settings in advance. They have limitations on what they can give out and so on. As players, we have it a bit easier.
We have all seen some pretty horrible gm events or at least heard of them. Again, people say they feel artificial or like a game show.
Some things that spoil an rp:
* Too many people ( a handful of players is ideal for a single group/gathering )
* reliance on gifts to make an event or rp successful
* having predetermined endings
* using new, unfamiliar characters that nobody knows.
* railroading and steering the rp rather than letting the players actively shape it.
Hi, new to using the forums, so please excuse me if I make a mistake with the quoting system.
I'd like to respond to the 5 items you listed about RP, if I may:
1. Whether or not there are too many people might depend a bit on the RP. Some work better in small groups, others in large.
2. Yeah, actually, unless it's a GM-run official event, this may not be a good idea in most cases.
3. This actually may not be a bad thing; I think it might be okay to know what the ending is, but we don't have to know how to get to it. We can let people use their creativity in achieving the end goal. (For example, if Celrau DID become CavernBelly, we could let it go on until someone tries something like feeding him a carrot [IC joke ;-) ] or something similar. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we don't need to pre-plan how we reach the goal, and can just run it indefinitely until reached.
4. I will have to disagree here. When my character was a new face and jumped into an RP, he (and his IC brother) actually added a pretty good bit to it. Our mysterious-ness kept people guessing. In short, to have 'new' faces isn't always a bad thing, but isn't always good, either.
5. Similar to point 3. Players can still shape how the end goal is reached... and, actually, if part of the group disagrees that the ending is sufficient, than that part can continue on with the RP until they reach their goal (For example, maybe the carrot didn't do Celrau in, so the rest of the group tries to find something else).
At any rate, the purpose of a game, any game, is to have fun. If an event doesn't sound fun to you, than you don't need to join. ;-)
Celroc
-
a little Consumer in a fur coat? ::|
Once you meet Celrau IG, you'll figure out where that remark came from. ;)
That sounds ... creepy o.O
Celrau's a nice character IC, although a bit hungry. He -probably- won't eat any of you if you meet him. ;)
-
What I mean in point #4 by new characters should be clarified a bit.
New players, I have no problem with.
Sometimes GMs or players will create a brand spanking new character for an event or for a rp chain - whatever you want to call it. GMs did this all the time - I don't know if they still do.
The problem is that these new characters have no history and are not connected to anyone. They are complete strangers - which can be ok if a stranger is needed. When this stranger gets into a conflict or has a crisis or whatever, it really doesn't affect anyone. There is no ripple effect, there is nothing for characters to gossip about. You end up with a situation where either you bend your character so that he or she cares, or you just walk away.
This is not a mortal sin, but it could be done better. Taking the time to introduce a character to the group, establish them, and know them would make a big difference. When that character is bonded and connected with other characters, things that effect that characters will be more likely to affect others. The former example results in isolated rp, the latter in contagious, long lasting rp.
-
However, while it may be better to have rippling RP, not everyone has the time to devote to its creation. So many people don't try to run anything since they can't have the ideal and thus you have a net of zero... Better to have some events then none. Lillia and Edaru were not connected to the regular character pool but they were still able to have enough of an affect that allowed others to care enough to join in.
What you need is a compelling reason for characters to interact so make sure you use a storyline that better suits characters that people don't have a previous connections to... If you run into town screaming that your brother died, it might be less effective than if your character comes in with "business" propositions for the local populace.
-
What I mean in point #4 by new characters should be clarified a bit.
New players, I have no problem with.
Sometimes GMs or players will create a brand spanking new character for an event or for a rp chain - whatever you want to call it. GMs did this all the time - I don't know if they still do.
The problem is that these new characters have no history and are not connected to anyone. They are complete strangers - which can be ok if a stranger is needed. When this stranger gets into a conflict or has a crisis or whatever, it really doesn't affect anyone. There is no ripple effect, there is nothing for characters to gossip about. You end up with a situation where either you bend your character so that he or she cares, or you just walk away.
This is not a mortal sin, but it could be done better. Taking the time to introduce a character to the group, establish them, and know them would make a big difference. When that character is bonded and connected with other characters, things that effect that characters will be more likely to affect others. The former example results in isolated rp, the latter in contagious, long lasting rp.
Actually, the "no history" thing worked to the character's advantage. Because nobody knew them, it started a whole bunch of rumors in the RP that they were spies for one side and kept people guessing and entertained. I think that, sometimes, the effect of a mysterious new face can add a bit of a twist or turn to the RP. But, I do have to agree that this is not always the case. ;-)
-
I didn't want to post on this at all because for a while it seemed like more of a passive (or not-so-passive) aggressive flame war. But whatever.
About using a totally new character, it depends on the situation. Yes, ideally RP would be ongoing character pieces with other characters you know and interact with. But a lot of people have school and/or work and just don't have time to be on a lot, or have to take long breaks from the game, and having these ongoing relationships between the characters is difficult, especially when so much goes on when you are away. Sometimes people just want an "episodic" RP, where some event happens that captures the character's attention, a group forms, and stuff happens. This is what a lot of GM events seemed like to me and I really enjoyed them. Plus, they put you in a position to meet other characters who can continue the RP after the "episode" is over. So, I think using a new character for "episodes" in this way is ok because it brings other characters together.
</end rant-nobody-cares-about-and-off-topic-to-OP>