PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: neogeomanus on June 08, 2003, 10:09:58 am
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I would like to see a log of member\'s guild movements so say if I want to see how many guilds they have been in I could just type in the characters name and boom, the following information would show:
-Previous Guilds:
-Current Guild:
-Current Guilds Rank:
-Current Guild\'s Leader:
-Guiilds Left of Own Will:
-Guilds Kicked out of:
-Total Guild Movements:
I figure this would also help as a resume type thing when wanting to join a guild so the leader of the guild could check out his status. Im also thinking maybe only guild leaders with 20 members or so should gain access to these logs.
This was also just entered into the official request system, but I would like to hear more ideas come from this one, if any of you have anything to add, be my guest ;)
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uh huh just incase another guild has spies or something u might be able to figure it out ;)
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sounds good
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Originally posted by Bonez
uh huh just incase another guild has spies or something u might be able to figure it out ;)
Thats why only the leader of a 20 member guild (20 members not including the leader) would be able to access this power so he can check to see this info out. Anbother addition that would be good is, before the leader invites somone he could view this information, but only with the users consent ofcourse. Another one would be that if a person is in another guild, the clan leader of another guild couldnt even request the persons information, but this might not be good say if the person is looking to move to another guild but doesnt want to leave his place until he is assured that he will have another guild to join.
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why would there be guild spies?????
in a non pvp game there is not gonna be much guild strife. this has been proven countless times in non pvp everquest.... im my 3 years of playing that game i have not once seen a guild war occur
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Yeah, that\'s true. But i think it is still a good idea, be it only for the resume thing when joining a guild. It\'s too powerful as a spie thingie. Just use it to evaluate want-to-be-members of a guild.
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Originally posted by Nadius
why would there be guild spies?????
in a non pvp game there is not gonna be much guild strife. this has been proven countless times in non pvp everquest.... im my 3 years of playing that game i have not once seen a guild war occur
There WILL be pvp : Arena fights, Duals and we will have Guild Wars !
So there will be spies ...
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Now that you mention it. Yeah, true. totally slipped my mind. How would you spie then ? could anyone explain to me the mechanism of spying on other guilds, and what benefits this gives you (apart from the obvious ones... ^_^)
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Originally posted by Nadius
why would there be guild spies?????
in a non pvp game there is not gonna be much guild strife. this has been proven countless times in non pvp everquest.... im my 3 years of playing that game i have not once seen a guild war occur
this is actually the first time you brought up this incredably good point.
EQs guilds lack strife, the only guild wars I was ever a part of was purely role playing at it\'s finest.
What EQ lacked was strife between guilds, or incentives to go to war. Now while I don\'t think anyone of the devs wants the game to boil down to being about warring guilds, there will be plenty of incentives for guilds to go to war.
the trick is in finding the balance between good incentives, and loss. Even a guild that wins a guild war should not be able to sustain it over and over and over. because casualties will be short, people don\'t die permaatly. the balance must lay elseware.
As far as incentive to go to war there will be many, and for those that even are guilds of bakers or blacksmiths...they too will often want to go to war even seaking allies.
The other balancing act will be in diswading overly powerfull guilds from praying on less powerfull guilds. and never accepting challenges from equally powerfull guilds.
I predict that by when the game is in beta, there will be at least one guild at war with another 95% of the time. but very few guilds will be at war anymore then 10% of the time.
with most guilds having a 2 day war once every 2 months... though mercenary guilds I am sure will probably be on the high end of the spectum and gatherers on the low. Most guilds I am sure will be focused on adventuring of some type or another.
but guilds I hope will have their own type of progression, like their experience they will have influence and power, or some other commodity depending on the type of guild they are, and often to ensure their position or philosophy they will colode with a guild that wants the opposite, or for the other guild to cease to exist...
that is one option I am not sure will be implemented, but if it was it would go something like this.
Guild War to the death...equal number of coinage or other valuables are put into escrow, guild war begins...will last 14 days, all mercenaries or allies who enter agree to the same terms, (same money is put in escrow) and all on one side share the fate of the main guild they are fighting with.
fight begins, based on overall combat levels of difference (some formula will be made) each member of each guild will only be allowed to die X number of times during the 14 days, after they die more then that, they are no longer part of the fight and can not communicate with any member of their former guild except in say format.
After the end of the 14 days the guild that wins gets all the other guilds holdings and the valuables given and gets 2 times their exp in a ready to burn format (usually guild exp is used for something but that exp refreshes all it\'s use as all uses are temporary, for the winners it will be a one time spending spree. But guild buildings and property will be transfered to the winners. To the loser\'s, they all become ex-members of that guild and they can not join another guild for 14 days nor can they communicate with former members of their guild other then in Say for 14 days. all merc Guilds, assassin guilds, or allies that joined the fray get their share of the loot, or are disbanded again and can not communicate other then in say with any members of the alliance.
Sadly I do not expect that system to be implemented, and even if it is, I doubt it will happen more then twice.
but I share that example so that it shows some of concepts that we have for guild conflict, each guild type will be able to use their exp in different ways, most will use it to enhance skills, some will use it to influence their local government to charge them less taxes, or even pay them for the privilege of being near them and helping their economy, others may use it to get their guildmates in prominate positions of power and then get some of the cool guild quests we have planed. how the points are spent and how the points are gained in the first place is dependant on the guild type...We do not have the types defined yet. and though it will be more likely that a couple of baker guild will have a cook off instead of a war, it also won\'t be unheard of that they might go to war, or hire a saboteur to put foul basilisk eggs in their opponents mix...hell that alone could start a war :-)
also we will likely have ways of annoying other guilds to intice a fight,but it will need to be tailored the right way so that uber guilds do not take advantage of the lesser guilds or that really skilled guilds do not ruin the fun of social guilds.
I hope this whets your appetite for what guilds will be doing, as I said in the past, this game will have intrigue, as well as adventuring, and guilds will have the ability to choose their fate.
I originally wrote out a long description defining a possable system that it could follow, but the time is not right and I would like to have the continues insight of the members of the board. as often very good deductions or insight comes from here.
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as far as spying...there are two ways.
in most games guilds are not too disseminate and may allow people they don\'t know well or people they know from a good group in the past in, mean while this new member is actually a member of another guild, he himself with another character or even the same character, and he will make copies of the other guilds website and e-mail it to the people who run his true guild, and he may even take screen shots of the guilds locations, and a number of other great or private stuff. this is a very difficult thing when you are allowing guilds and even encouraging guilds to fight.
what we have plans for is for allot of guild controls and we hope this goes beyond the game and onto their websites and such.
on the other side, I hope we have legitimate spies, not ones that take advantage of the way the game is played, but who through skill and intelligence inflitrates a guild house, and once there for a while is able to gather information that we keep on the guild.
to do this right, he should only be allowed to do so when there is open hostility and the amount of information spy\'s can get at one time can depend on many factors but should be limited...the spy to learn everything about the guild and even intersept \"guild chat\" should have been to most of the guilds holdings and have been to many places often (as in a 3 of times during a week) now if the spy is found...he should suffer something, and it could even be information on his employer, or guild...however if this is done it will be negotiated through chat but the info given will be by the game engine, similar to the info he gathered. Of course he will have the option to lie, exaggerate, or give a half truth...but if discovered then his penalty could increase :-)
but to tell the truth this is truly hard to do well, it will have to be thought through and all exploits taken out if it is ever to be a reality. As such it is very far off.
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I dont see many expliots coming from this simple list that I propose to be implemented, that really only tells where the person has been...
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Originally posted by paxx
fight begins, based on overall combat levels of difference (some formula will be made) each member of each guild will only be allowed to die X number of times during the 14 days, after they die more then that, they are no longer part of the fight and can not communicate with any member of their former guild except in say format
That\'s a GREAT idea.
Also i think, since there is a Guild symbol command, that the Guild (which won the war) took the guild symbol of his oponment for these 14 days. (That s more for the RolePlaying aspect of course)
Btw i hope the guild which lost will not be auto-disbanded (i admit i didn\'t understand well this part, Paxx).
Forbidding Guild Chat is enough as to me.
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there should be some war benefits that maybe u put up against the other guild maybe like a bet... if we win we want such and such if u win u get such and such
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While there is much to be worked out, what I outlined was the ?fight to the death? for guilds?guildicide???? This is probably not a likely thing to be implemented, but it gives an idea of what a guild war system can and likely will look somewhat like, if the whole package was implemented, guild war type events would go from a cook off, or arena match depending on the types of guilds, to full on two guilds start one guild ends it losers lose their guild. There will be many, many options in-between, and in many of the wars types or perhaps they should be called aggression levels or something other then guild war.
But in the end it will likely that the most extreme (the one outlined above) will be the least used if it is even made?all that example was for, was to give you an idea of the line of thinking what we have regarding guilds and there interaction. How will the others work?not going to say, and we have much to work on even before any of this really gets mulled over, this will likely change a lot in the months ahead.
However ideas of different guild aggression levels might be nice to from you guys, I won?t answer much, but when there is a really good idea I?ll say so.
And the temporary disband of the guild is not a bad idea?say for 7 or 10 days, that might be the level just below full fight to the death of guilds?but all this is a long way off and will likely be unrecognizable from what is outlined.
The (opponents guild standard) being used by the winners is something we have plans for, but they won?t be used in flattering ways.
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Paxx, aftre the guild dismantle period is over, can\'t all the members of the ex-guild just come together and start a new one. All that would maybe change is their name, and for the rest they would be the same guild right ? It woould be annoying yes, but i don(t see the penalty in that. In the meantime they would juts probably go out and train like hell on monsters so they get a whole lot stronger and when the guild is reassambled, it will be as though nothing happened.
Another thing, spying doens\'t have to be made such a difficult thing. logs could be made of guildwars, adn kept in libraries (library topic (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=3791&boardid=11&styleid=2&sid=7b012cb615e4cff9130cec6b193feec9)) and a \"spie\" shouldn\'t necessarly have to go and infiltrate in the enemy guildhouse. He could just read the logs and lear na l ot on their fighting style, there tactics, etc... It\'s called research. Also, this dosn\'t have to be done by a spy, a \"normal\" guildmemeber (who could read ;) )would be enough.
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Well, research is one thing, and would likely be harder to do then the spy system. because then we need to logg and make the information understandable.
On the penalty front, if the guild is gaining exp and resources as an organization...loosing everything is a penalty. in many of the commercial MMOGs I have seen very high end guilds fall apart after a single failed raid, imagine after a failed guild war where all the things worked for are now gone, and to top it all off, you can not communicate in the game well.
sure there are ways to communicate outside the guild, but will everyone do that.
All things considered I am very much willing to allow a guild to reform, in fact I would encourage it. But they gambled on their superiority and lost. and as such loose allot of work.
if you do not think of this as a penalty, eather you have not been in any major one game guilds, or your guilds where very close.
multigame guilds stay in touch much better and it would not be too major of an issue for them, but their goals are different and as such would probably not be willing to engage in such an activity.
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we could also have a guild war section... whenever u win a war u get a point.... war winners are posted and they show their points... maybe even points could be traded in for guild things such as additon to the guild house
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guild spying isn\'t nearly as hard as you might think, in DAoC, they tried to keep peeps from doing it by causing the game to freeze if someone alt-tabbed out, so peeps with second computers got second accounts and played on seperate realms, gathering info on one realm and relaying it to peeps in his guild, so they knew when such and such guild was going to raid whichever castle, the guild my guild was associated with was notorious for this kinda thing, and they ruled the daytime hours
too bad that game was so boring. it had a lot of potential, but after a couple of weeks everything began to have a generic feel, at least other games like AC and EQ have continued to evolve on a regular basis, DAoC, after an expansion pack and months of updates is the same game it was when it was released...
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That is why guilds should have some control on who gets what information.
that type of spying is way too easy, and it is our job as Devs to try to lessen it\'s effects in some fashion.
Being that this game is free only makes it easier.
I think I addressed this earlier on this thread. Spying should be based on character skill, not on how many accounts I have. But to a large degree it will be up to guilds to maintain control on different levels of it\'s secrets.
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ooh, spying skill, I like that, as you raise ranks, you could infiltrate, low skill simply shows you as being registered as a member of the guild you\'re infiltrating, which could slip if your skill is too low, showing you for what you are. Later, you gain access to guild chat, that sort of thing? that could be fun...
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Haha, very interesting idea. This should be a difficult skill to raise. This way we don\'t have spies picking apart every single guild in the game. So say you have a 100 skill in spying and then you can start working on your infiltrating skill for a specific guild. By making it two seperate skills you don\'t have a master infiltrater who can spy on every guild at once.
So you start by picking locks, pickpocketing NPC\'s, and doing quests. Then you move onto a specific guild and work on your skill.
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It could easily be directly tied to thieving or bardic skills, pickpocketing, some kind of performing skill and disquise could be requirements for a person to gain the skill, after which, different lvls could have further requirements, such as a high charisma(or some equivelent) in order to gain access to the guild chat channel.
and as far as the master spy thing, the only restriction I would put in would be that they could only infiltrate one guild at any given time, having to drop one in order to infiltrate another
heh, It could even be possible for a person to disquise him/herself as an npc, giving a \"quest\" to pcs, when the pc performs his task, bringing the spy a valuable item, they receive some bauble that\'s hardly worth going after... all that good stuff, hehe, it would surely put a damper on those that would write up a website giving answers to all the quests... find out that the npc they just got a trinket from isn\'t there the next day
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There could be a profession, tipper (in a lack of a better word). That person could have spying as his major skill, and take on job offers from different guilds to spy on other guilds.
And there could be a skill to counter infiltration.
Not quite sure how it would work, give me some time to figure out the details..
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Yeah i really like that. could we call your \"tipper\" a private detective ? Or something like that. Let us know when u get there with your counter spying idea.
Spying skill should be extremely hard to raise. It\'s too powerful.
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hmmm good idea. The private detective could also find stolen items etc. Find missing persons and all.
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so after a very long time of not checking this thread :D, I would like to ask how likely, or possible, this will be implemented into the game. Just giving my point of view, but this may in many ways revolutionize the way clans are created. This to my knowledge has never been implemented into other games before, and if its a success this game would be known as the one that started it. Maybe Im just high on my own ideas :)...
edit: I tried running a clan before, it failed. But the point Im making is I have somewhat more experience in people who have not run clans and I know that I would use this feature alot, every time I would invite a player to join my clan.
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Back to the original topic of this thread.
I think the CV idea for player histories is a good idea.
The easy way to choose who can view it is that you can only see it if the player allows you to. So if they want to join a guild they can show the guild leader. If they wont show you their CV then you know there\'s probably something dodgy about their past and its up to you how much you care.
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I would say that only guild officials can once the person is being considered by the guild?if he is simply a person who has nothing to do with the guild?I would not want a ton of guild leaders spamming me with requests to see my records. And as a guild official, I would want to see who is being considered for my guild even if they are not online.
Guild notes can be added in some form, so that the guild officials can discuss a particular person at the time. Adding notes such as, Helped a member attain swindler maxumus, told off member when asked what his name was about?.
Keeping tabs on the guild and who is who in your guild I think is very important.