PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: DiosTorta on July 22, 2014, 04:05:14 am
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(20:43:24) Kerel: Waesed I got 8 million for the RcD
(20:43:44) Kerel: well actualy a bit more than 8 million
(20:44:09) Kerel: send you thanks to Magitex :)
(20:44:11) Mishka: Wow what?
(20:44:25) Mishka: What did he sell that was worth so much?
(20:44:48) Kerel: well the Family GH has been robbed aswell
(20:44:51) Magitex: I have never been seen or accused to my face for stealing by anyone
(20:45:05) Resildren: you have now
(20:45:09) Resildren: by the guards
(20:45:09) Zhorala: Well, you have been now. :)
(20:45:14) Magitex: with no in game proof
(20:45:19) Tuon: 8 million? that's not really a lot
(20:45:29) Mishka: Look, buddy
(20:45:33) Zhorala: There was proof even if you did not see it yourself.
(20:45:43) Kerel: First time for everything Magitex
(20:45:45) Mishka: One guy got banned for a whole year for doing that same thing.
(20:45:47) Mishka: So be thankful.
(20:46:05) Mishka: You should've got banned, instead they're just slapping your hand a little.
(20:46:19) Magitex: Mishka, you rarely ever see me and you never saw me steal anything becuase you are never around when im on and you are on other parts of the land
(20:46:28) Resildren: hey if you want, we can talk to the guards, maybe they'll lets us just cut off your hands
(20:46:34) Waesed: There will be a trial.
(20:46:35) Resildren: well maybe feet too?
(20:46:40) Mishka: Look, they're GMs. They know when you steal something.
(20:46:47) Mishka: So don't deny the evidence.
(20:46:50) Mishka: We're not stupid.
(20:46:56) Magitex: ( proof has to be in game chracter mode only)
(20:47:07) Mishka: No, what you did is grieving.
(20:47:18) Mishka: It's both an IC and OOC offense.
(20:47:28) Mishka: I'm very surprised you're not being banned.
(20:47:41) Resildren: wll it seems that that key you had was pretty good ingame proof
(20:47:50) Resildren grins
(20:47:57) Mishka: Now quit whining, man up, and be thankful.
(20:48:05) Magitex: no you are just a sore loser and cant accept being responsible for your own lack of guild responsiubilities..........not losing keys and then just randomlly point fingers at whom you want
(20:48:20) Mishka: Lol I didn't lose anything.
(20:48:23) Resildren points to the dome
(20:48:36) Kaerli: be glad we don't have full-on corporate espionage going on in PS. that is all.
(20:48:41) Magitex: well clearly soemthing went missing and you were not around to see it go misiing
(20:48:43) Resildren: thats where the scums go
(20:48:50) Magitex: thats not my fault
(20:49:10) Mishka: What Mishka does ICly is independent of what I think OOCly, most of the times.
(20:49:29) Magitex: when one does not see thier things go missing then they are not being careful and responsible for thier things
(20:49:44) Mishka: But this time I see the OOC evidence that you griefed not only two but... more than three guilds (including guilds to which guard characters pertains).
(20:49:51) Magitex: (if you have in game chracter proof show me now)
(20:50:15) Tuon: logs you mean?
(20:50:19) Kerel: its been ic
(20:50:35) Zhorala: Magitex: You sold items to an NPC. IC that NPC is a person who is answerable to the guards when they ask questions. You should be able to work out the IC logic from there.
(20:50:36) Magitex: logs dont count. if not inchracter
(20:50:42) Kerel: Gardr reconized you
(20:50:54) Kerel: you sold him many stoled items
(20:51:02) Magitex: Gardr is not a real player
(20:51:04) Kerel: we made investigation
(20:51:04) Zhorala: The theft was also fully reported IC. We IC gathered a list of items and a list of keyholders and worked from there.
(20:51:11) Kerel: and ?
(20:51:22) Magitex: therefore not a real life form to give proof to others
(20:51:24) Mishka: Gardr is a part of the game and thus an IC proof.
(20:51:37) Kerel: for sure he is
(20:51:40) Zhorala: As far as the game is concerned, Gadr as as real as any player character.
(20:51:44) Mishka: Kra is not an OOC entity, but an IC one. And way more IC than you.
(20:51:47) Zhorala: Gardr*
(20:52:09) Magitex: if you can proove that NPC can talk to me like a real player can with his own mind, ill allow it
(20:52:14) Magitex: which is not possible
(20:52:18) Mishka: It is possible.
(20:52:31) Magitex: exactly, so NPC is not proof
(20:52:33) Mishka: And Harnquist has given me quests like that in small events.
(20:52:36) Kerel: everything is possible
(20:52:51) Magitex: only players can witness soemthing and state proof
(20:52:54) Asmo: NPC conversations are available tools for RPs.
(20:52:56) Magitex: in game
(20:52:58) Kerel: we asked him to come tomorrow
(20:53:09) Asmo: GMs can interact as NPCs
(20:53:25) Zhorala: We'll have him come and pay a visit to confirm your identiy sometime, okay Magitex? Will that be acceptable then?
(20:53:26) Magitex: (NPC is not coded to talk about what Magitex sells every time i see him)
(20:53:33) Mishka: Exactly, thanks to the /impersonate command. Don't try to outsmart the GMs and the seasoned players, Magitex.
(20:53:33) Asmo: Thus if the NPC knows something, a GM can rp the npc.
(20:53:59) Magitex: RP ing agaisnt the will of NPC is not proof
(20:54:13) Zhorala: But I thought you just said NPC has no will...?
(20:54:14) Magitex: thats mutiny
(20:54:18) Magitex: against me
(20:54:18) Mishka: Now I'm sure this has gone full pants-on-head retarded.
(20:54:22) Tuon: are you really arguing with the gms about the mechanics of the game?
(20:54:24) Fyodor: haha it really has
(20:54:32) Mishka: What Tuon asked.
(20:54:34) Asmo: We have to work for you to mutinize...
(20:54:36) Tharkas: are you really trying to reason with him? XD
(20:54:37) Magitex: im innocent in game chracter mode
(20:54:39) Zhorala: Yes Tuon, he is :)
(20:54:41) Magitex: im innocent in game chracter mode
(20:55:06) Venalan: Magitex if you'd like I'll ban you for a few months in place of all this IC stuff?
(20:55:16) Mishka: No, you're not innocent and believe me that if I were a GM I'd be asking for you to get banned for a year.
(20:55:25) Mishka: Like Venalan just suggested.
(20:55:29) Zhorala smiles to Venalan.
(20:55:37) Anyastaysia: and heres venelan
(20:56:03) Magitex: and this is why games fail in todays world........GM's abuse thier powers and do not honor nRP in game style
(20:56:11) Zhorala: You have your options Magitex.
(20:56:11) Magitex: they use everything against the player
(20:56:24) Magitex: you either dont use cheat tools or you do
(20:56:28) Fyodor: if you break a rule ooc why should they only follow ic proof?
(20:56:30) Waesed: cops do that all the time :-)
(20:56:32) Mishka: Oh, be sure that if the GMs didn't do anything we, the players, would be making your life impossible after we found out.
(20:56:43) Magitex: if you do, then IC mode should not exsist
(20:56:58) Anyastaysia bashes her head against a wall
(20:57:05) Mishka: The GMs are there to make sure people like you don't grief the other players. Then again, if you don't like the game...
(20:57:09) Mishka: Feel free to leave.
(20:57:15) Mishka points to the door.
(20:57:35) Magitex: griefing is lack of responsibility of the player being dumb and not being careful
(20:57:41) Tharkas: doing something against a large player colective, then complain everyone's against him
(20:57:42) Tharkas: classy
(20:57:45) Magitex: lack of careful planning, timing and decision making
(20:57:59) Mishka: Want me to read a list of charges against your person?
(20:58:10) Magitex: sure, innocent, innocent, innocent
(20:58:13) Kaerli: you really don't know how to be a griefer anyway Magitex, and your whining just makes it worse.
(20:58:15) Magitex: THE END
(20:58:26) Mishka: Griefing, godmodding, berating GMs, berating players, OOC chatter in Main...
(20:58:29) Magitex: whiner? I have never whined
(20:58:42) Mishka: That's grounds for a lifetime ban.
(20:58:44) Magitex: no such charges
(20:58:46) Fyodor: you've actually really just admitted to everything anyway, why are you still tryna say you didn't do anything
(20:59:18) Magitex: because i want the in game chracters in IC mode to take a lose and not get GMs invloved OOC
(20:59:20) Anyastaysia thinks she should just lop his head off
(20:59:31) Magitex: thats griving
(20:59:31) Mishka thinks he should just get banned.
(20:59:49) Mishka: Since he doesn't come to reason, seemingly.
(20:59:52) Magitex: banning me for playing IC is allowed
(21:00:02) Magitex: is not allowed
(21:00:07) Waesed: fly him into the crystal!
(21:00:18) Mishka: No, but for grieving OOCly is, which is what you did. The sooner you admit it, the sooner we'll forgive you.
(21:00:20) Magitex: I played IC so i did nothing wrong
(21:00:43) Mishka: Now we may be bashing on you, but if you admit to doing wrong, and apologize for it, we can be forgiving.
(21:00:46) Asmo: So IC is magitex a criminal?
(21:00:50) Magitex: I want my tria back and ill explain the whole process
(21:00:56) Magitex: to help the DEVS code better
(21:01:11) Tharkas: our hero
(21:01:16) Zhorala: There is really nothing for you to explain.
(21:01:24) Magitex: thats fair since now everyone is hung up on OOC
(21:01:32) Wrenn: For the record, I was careful with my belongings. I locled them in the guildhouse, where I assumed they would be safe, never dreaming that a guildmate would steal from his guild!
(21:01:33) Magitex: which is not RPing
(21:01:53) Gardr: hello
(21:01:56) Asmo: Would the Magitex character act as a criminal?
(21:01:59) Zhorala: Oh, look who's here.
(21:02:00) Mishka: :D
(21:02:08) Magitex: I never stole anyone from guild because no one from guild has ever accused me of stealing nor seen me do anything wrong
(21:02:10) Zhorala: Hi Gardr. I'm glad you could join us.
(21:02:20) Tharkas: interest caught
(21:02:31) Magitex: GARDR is now in GM MODE
(21:02:36) Magitex: this is treason
(21:02:41) Anyastaysia shakes her head in dibelief at gargr being in channel
(21:02:44) Mishka: As I said: Feel free to leave.
(21:02:46) Fyodor: treason?
(21:02:50) Fyodor: explain?
(21:02:51) Asmo: Treason??
(21:02:55) Kaerli: lol, this is awesome with Gardr in the channel
(21:03:01) Asmo: wow....
(21:03:05) Magitex: GM mode against the will of NPC is cheating
(21:03:07) Kaerli: I should put these logs up for a special Ragequit Theatre
(21:03:07) Tuon: treason? Gardr is not exactly committing a crime against the dome
(21:03:19) Fyodor: against the will of an NPC
(21:03:24) Fyodor: cheating?
(21:03:24) Rykia: Good morning Gardr. Shouldn't you be asleep this time of night?
(21:03:31) Magitex: NPC is being forced to lie against innocent IC chracter
(21:03:42) Fyodor: lie?
(21:03:48) Magitex: yes lie
(21:03:52) Magitex: so please dont do it
(21:03:56) Asmo: OOCly did you take the stuff?
(21:03:56) Tuon: NPC's have will? they are programed constructs, their will is the will of the puppet master
(21:04:17) Mishka: Look, dude. I write quests.
(21:04:20) Magitex: ill tell you 100% the truth if i get to continue playing my chracter with my tria in full
(21:04:30) Magitex: ill even give you a tour
(21:04:31) Mishka: If I want Gardr to say you're guilty, I'll write a quest for him to do so.
(21:04:48) Asmo: if you did, then the npc would know if you sold it to them.
(21:04:54) Fyodor: is there a record of what players sell to npcs?
(21:04:59) Mishka: Yes
(21:04:59) Magitex: NPCs are not real
(21:05:06) Magitex: get that through your thick haead
(21:05:17) Anyastaysia growls
(21:05:22) Asmo: No, but for the purpose of RPing there is no such thing as a person that isn't real.
(21:05:27) Magitex: im just being honest and truew
(21:05:30) Anyastaysia: npc's exist in game and are therefor in game characters
(21:05:40) Fyodor: if there is a record of what a player sold to an npc, then it wouldn't be cheating or anything else for a GM to use an npc to report what a player had sold to them
(21:05:46) Fyodor: it wouldn't be lying or ooc
(21:05:48) Magitex: NPCs are only IC if they can speak freely like me or you
(21:05:52) Asmo: Do you walk up to people on the street and tell them you're not real?
(21:05:54) Magitex: without GM modding
(21:05:56) Melada: I think Magitex isn't real.. he isn't believable
(21:05:56) Rykia: So you were trusted with a key to the RCD Magitex? I popped in after all this chat was already started.
(21:05:57) Anyastaysia: as long as they stay in personality while being played by a gm its fine
(21:06:21) Mishka: He stole Wrenn's.
(21:06:31) Asmo: exactly Anya, Gardr is an npc on good standing with the guards.
(21:06:34) Wrenn: Yes, he did!
(21:06:36) Magitex: ill tell you 100% truth if i can be unjailed, given back my tria dn allowed to explain myself for better coding
(21:06:54) Tuon: hwo do you steel a key?
(21:20:02) Tharkas: making demands and all
(21:20:03) Magitex: its amazing isnt it
(21:20:03) Tuon: steal
(21:20:05) Fyodor: ...you'll admit to cheating on the condition that you not be punished for it
(21:20:06) Tharkas: my mind is honestly blown XD
(21:20:25) Magitex: no punishment and back to normal status and ill explain in full
(21:20:41) Fyodor: why would anyone agree to taht
(21:20:48) Mishka: I'm so used to dealing with brainless 13 years old on internet forums this is normal to me.
(21:20:52) Asmo: That part I haven't figured out yet, as I wouldn't have set the key down.
(21:20:57) Magitex: because i foolwed IC mode playability
(21:21:13) Magitex: and did not cheat or steal according to 0 witnesses
(21:21:25) Kaerli: this is brainless. :p
(21:21:34) Rykia: Braineless... seeing a key and using it? It's a pity that opportunity presented itself in the first place
(21:21:39) Mishka dusts the RCD and finds Magitex's shoeprints.
(21:21:52) Magitex: It would be best if guild accepts its defeat
(21:21:57) Mishka dusts the counter and finds Magitex's fingeprints.
(21:22:04) Magitex: and stop punishing smart players IC mode
(21:22:13) Asmo: That's as much as admitting.
(21:22:19) Fyodor: really is
(21:22:37) Magitex: until i say word for word I stole something: I am innocent
(21:22:50) Tuon: I feel like we're arguing with an autistic kid
(21:22:50) Fyodor: according to the rules you just made up?
(21:10:00) Anyastaysia: it doesn't even matter if he is banned, as all players that know about this now dislike him and will make life difficult
(21:10:17) Asmo: ICly I can't though.
(21:10:18) Magitex: no IC mode witnesses, no stealing
(21:10:24) Magitex: simple as that
(21:10:24) Mishka: Can someone unlock the jail door or t-port us in?
(21:10:31) Fyodor: according to the rule you just made up.
(21:10:40) Mishka: Mishka, Jerada, Waesed, Xola and Gardr.
(21:10:44) Magitex: thats normal procedure
(21:10:55) Fyodor: no it isn't
(21:11:01) Magitex: IC mode is not 100% full proof
(21:11:10) Fyodor: that's why we have GMs
(21:11:11) Magitex: until coded better
(21:11:28) Magitex: GMs are there to also follow IC mode and be fair to ALL
(21:11:35) Magitex: this is not the case
(21:11:46) Magitex: and here i am sitting in jail
(21:11:47) Fyodor: they're hardly being fair if they let you off the hook for cheating, that's true, I don't think they're being fair
(21:11:53) Magitex: innocent man IC mode
(21:11:54) Fyodor: you should be banned, tbh
(21:11:58) Tuon: how many alts do you have in other guilds?
(21:12:27) Magitex: I speak on behalf on IC mode Magitex
(21:12:42) Magitex: and he is innocent
(21:12:44) Tuon: gossip isn't IC
(21:12:48) Magitex: 0 witnesses
(21:13:00) Gardr: are you talking about fairness Magitex, was it fair to steal and sell good that some were collecting for age ?
(21:13:21) Magitex: GARDR = GM mode = NULL AND VOID
(21:13:42) Anyastaysia disagrees with Magitex
(21:13:42) Magitex: IC Magitex cannot answer to a NPC agaisnt free will
(21:13:45) Fyodor: we've explained why Gardr controlled by a GM istotally valid
(21:14:03) Fyodor: an NPC controlled by an NPC is still 100% valid ic
(21:14:12) Anyastaysia: for events npc's become active.. it is normal
(21:14:14) Magitex: not vailid, its called manipulation against IC mode Magitex s innocence
(21:14:26) Fyodor: you're the only one calling it taht
(21:14:32) Fyodor: and like, you're wrong, so
(21:14:42) Magitex: facts are facts, IC mode i am innocent
(21:14:49) Anyastaysia: nobody else agrees with you, Magitex
(21:14:55) Magitex: take a lose and accept you are wrong
(21:14:57) Mishka: Yep, pretty much nobody does.
(21:15:01) Mishka: LOL no
(21:15:09) Mishka: You know what, I'll say what everyone is thinking.
(21:15:16) Mishka: Even if I risk being told off.
(21:15:20) Magitex: I played my IC mode role very well and kept to myself
(21:15:23) Mishka: You. Big. Noob.
(21:15:28) Magitex: this is normal game play
(21:15:57) Magitex: i have a proposal
(21:16:01) Melada: never seen normal game play with you around, Magitex
(21:16:06) Mishka: Me neither.
(21:16:08) Anyastaysia: i'm a noob and i understand that he is being unreasonable
(21:17:04) Magitex: GM gives back my tira in full, learns from this whole odeal, can block me from entering Hydlaa for a year real time and we all are happy, im willing to go with this
(21:17:09) Wrenn: For the love of Talad, I didn;t just set my key down, I locked it in the guildhouse.
(21:17:34) Potare: lol
(21:17:37) Asmo: Ouch, alright.
(21:17:52) Magitex: IC chracters will learn to be better players and next time learn to catch the criminal and not point fingers without proof
(21:18:00) Asmo makes a note not to do that with the only key he has...
(21:18:02) Tuon: why would you lock a key in a guild house?
(21:18:25) Asmo: Because it should be safe in there.
(21:18:34) Magitex: IC mode Magitex is innocent and should now be released
(21:18:39) Tuon: 8 million isn't really that much if you can craft
(21:18:44) Mishka always carries her key with herself...
(21:18:55) Tuon: i leave mine in storage
(21:19:04) Fyodor: I'm not in a guild so
(21:19:05) Melada: sometimes you need to drop a key if you want to transfer it to an alt
(21:19:07) Fyodor shrugs
(21:19:08) Magitex: guild key is the responbsibility of the player who owns it
(21:19:15) Asmo: Trie making that much as an alchemist Tuon...
(21:19:19) Magitex: no one is to blame but the owner
(21:19:30) Asmo: try*
(21:19:31) Magitex: same goes for all things
(21:19:33) Mishka: But Wrenn here demonstrated being careless, but also trusting of her own guildmates. I can't blame her for the second statement.
(21:20:33) Magitex: Being careless is not anyone fault but the person who was careless
(21:20:54) Magitex: I treat all equally on this point
(21:20:55) Asmo: Yes, but you took advantage of that carelessness.
(21:21:14) Magitex: thats backwards talk, not valid
(21:21:31) Mishka: Your point is not valid whatsoever.
(21:21:33) Magitex: I played IC mode fairly and carefully
(21:21:34) Kaerli: there's also an environmental factor here
(21:21:37) Mishka: Nobody here takes you seriously anymore.
(21:21:40) Magitex: I played IC mode fairly and carefully
(21:21:49) Asmo: So... if I stole a million tria from you OOCly Magitex...
(21:21:54) Anyastaysia: i'll play ic and chop your head off
(21:22:08) Asmo: No hard feelings?
(21:22:13) Magitex: if you stole 1 million tria OOC with hacking or GM tools thats cheating
(21:22:27) Asmo: Not with hacking or GM tools.
(21:22:39) Magitex: but if your chracter is running around and knows how to take soemthing without being seen, thats a skill
(21:22:41) Asmo: But simply OOCly.
(21:22:58) Magitex: its called being invinsible
(21:23:10) Fyodor: invinsible really
(21:23:11) Asmo: I can't be invisible.
(21:23:14) Magitex: or in this game soon to be future HIDING
(21:23:24) Magitex: HIDING will be very valuable
(21:23:35) Magitex: imagine the stealing
(21:23:36) Asmo: However, I can be cunning.
(21:23:36) Wrenn: Look, buddy, I wasn't careless. IRL, I've been dealing with a heel bone shattered in 10 pieces and finally getting to return to work after 12 weeks. That was two weeks ago, when I stored all of my best pieces in the GH for safekeeping. Jokes on me. Lesson learned. Trust no one.
(21:23:40) Magitex: IC mode this is ok
(21:23:42) Tuon: a bit late, i'm only half following this conversation, asmo well if you pick making something that isn't in high demand.... you're not going to make much $$$
(21:24:15) Magitex: I found a key and someone was careless
(21:24:19) Chays: I see there's been no lack of drama while I've been gone. Never change, PS <3
(21:24:21) Magitex: OOC mode
(21:24:30) Fyodor: so you're admitting it straight up now
(21:24:35) Magitex: OOC yes
(21:24:45) Magitex: but this is not proof
(21:24:53) Magitex: nor a crime
(21:24:56) Llyr: I don't really know the full context of this convo (not really my business) but I'd kind of have to think ICly they'd have the same provision pretty much every legal system has, where someone else being careless with their property doesn't exactly make it not theft to take it.
(21:24:58) Anyastaysia: not gonna change how you are treated in game
(21:25:24) Magitex: stealing means to be seen by another to take it by force and never return it
(21:25:33) Fyodor: seen or caught
(21:25:40) Magitex: seen or caught i agree
(21:25:43) Fyodor: in this case with the testemony of Gardr
(21:25:44) Magitex: which i was not
(21:25:58) Fyodor: which is fully valid
(21:25:59) Magitex: Gardr is not a real IC player
(21:26:02) Magitex: not valid
(21:26:02) Asmo: You sold it to the wrong person.
(21:26:04) Fyodor: that doesn't matter
(21:26:11) Magitex: it matters
(21:26:21) Asmo: I'll remember that, store clerks aren't people...
(21:26:25) Fyodor: there are NPCs where it would have been OOC for them to report to the guards
(21:26:27) Magitex: exactly
(21:26:33) Mishka: So we can kill them GTA style?
(21:26:33) Fyodor: but Gardr isn't one of them
(21:26:38) Magitex: exactly
(21:26:50) Wrenn: Robbery is theft by force. Know your trade.
(21:26:52) Magitex: Gardr is a lonely NPC that one rarely visitis
(21:26:56) Fyodor: so for Gardr to stand witness isn't ooc
(21:26:58) Kaerli: lol :P
(21:27:08) Kaerli: you got busted by your fence. dealwidit.
(21:27:14) Magitex: its quite simple a case
(21:27:22) Mishka: I visit kra at least once a week.
(21:27:25) Asmo: Kisatol is a better fence.
(21:27:32) Magitex: soemthing went missing, no witnesses, no criminal case
(21:27:37) Wrenn: I'd like for someone to explain to me how locking your things in a GH is careless. Please.
(21:27:38) Asmo: Though he doesn't buy much.
(21:27:58) Magitex: IC mode
(21:28:03) Fyodor: Gardr as witness
(21:28:13) Fyodor: who we've already determined is a valid witness
(21:28:14) Magitex: Gardr is not a real IC player
(21:28:16) Magitex: not valid
(21:28:29) Fyodor: as I said, we've already determined Gardr is a valid witness
(21:28:35) Fyodor: so it's a pretty clean case
(21:28:36) Llyr: Being in possession (and then selling) stolen items is absolutely illegal :p
(21:28:45) Magitex: you cant change the facts, facts are facts
(21:28:48) Fyodor: stuff does missing, you have the stuff, closed case
(21:29:20) Fyodor: you can't change facts either?
(21:29:21) Magitex: if caught with stolen items, not even after selling then, then you have a case
(21:29:31) Magitex: zero witnesses
(21:29:39) Tuon: if a fence turns you in...
(21:29:41) Magitex: zero real IC witnesses
(21:29:53) Magitex: be fair
(21:30:03) Fyodor: right, well we've already determined that we've got a valid IC witness so to be fair, the case is pretty solid
(21:30:25) Magitex: no real IC witnesses, because i was never caught stealing
(21:30:38) Tuon: you were caught stolen goods
(21:30:42) Fyodor: witnessed with stolen goods
(21:30:51) Magitex: OOC mode is not legit
(21:31:03) Fyodor: we've been over this, repeatedly
(21:31:04) Anyastaysia tears at her fur
(21:31:07) Magitex: evidence MUST BE IC MODE ONLY
(21:31:11) Asmo: There was a list given to the guards of what was stolen.
(21:31:17) Fyodor: if there's a record of what a player has sold to an npc
(21:31:20) Asmo: The guards asked around.
(21:31:30) Chays: I really wish PS had a buyback feature
(21:31:37) Mishka: Like in WoW :D
(21:31:40) Asmo: when enough items turned up from said list, being sold by the same person.
(21:31:48) Magitex: also, unless you have actually taken the items off chracter, which you did not, then nothing is traceable
(21:31:50) Darryel: He's not going to change his mind, leave him be and let the GM solve this, he has the logs of the NPC
(21:31:52) Fyodor: and a gm plays that npc, they can play the npc with that knowledge and it is completely ic knowledge
(21:31:55) Magitex: IC mode
(21:31:56) Fyodor: because the npc would know it
(21:32:28) Anyastaysia: we may as well be talking to a brick wall right about npw
(21:32:28) Rykia: Great advice Darryel
(21:32:31) Anyastaysia: now*
(21:32:33) Mishka: What do you know of IC and OOC mode, when you call everyone by their names when you haven't met them, and have the worst, THE WORST description I've ever seen!
(21:32:39) Magitex: once items are convereted to tria IC mode, and no one witnessed it, thats not stealing anymore nor traceable since items no longer exist
(21:32:56) Mishka: You're a very lousy troll, a stupid kid, a numbnuts, or all at the same time.
(21:32:58) Magitex: fair is fair
(21:32:59) Llyr: You can't buy comedy like this conversation.
(21:33:09) Asmo: That is using an OOC concept for IC convenience.
(21:33:12) Magitex: im smart and mishka cant accept i play IC mode very well
(21:33:16) Anyastaysia: yes, Asmo
(21:33:18) Fyodor: haha
(21:33:31) Mishka: Ooookay so /ignore it is.
(21:33:44) Mishka: Strange, I had him on my ignore list... wonder why he isn't.
(21:33:47) Magitex: with enough time any real IC chracter can think of creative ways to play fiarly and get away with it
(21:33:48) Darryel: Stop feeding the troll lol, use the ignore as Mishka says
(21:33:55) Asmo: You have to realise, ICly it's the same as if you were there. Nothing just disappears.
(21:33:58) Wrenn: Headed to bed. Rot in hell, Magitex.
(21:34:24) Magitex: Thanks Wrenn. I hope you regret saying that, since Im IC mode innocent
(21:34:32) Magitex: i was never mean to you
(21:34:43) Anyastaysia: ooc mean is still mean
(21:34:59) Magitex: i was never mean to Wrenn OOC either
(21:35:09) Magitex: so once agin im innocent
(21:35:10) Anyastaysia: stealing her stuff
(21:35:30) Magitex: If you can witness me stealing ill ban myself
(21:35:39) Magitex: honor system
(21:35:58) Anyastaysia: you motherfin admited to stealin her stuff.. ooc that is mean
(21:36:16) Magitex: If any IC chracter can witness me stealing IC mode then ill BAN myself
(21:36:25) Magitex: never come back
(21:36:35) Tuon: Not sure many will want to play with you anyways
(21:36:36) Magitex: but until then i am innocent and played IC MODE FAIRLY
(21:37:17) Magitex: i did not hack or abuse the game IC mode
(21:37:23) Anyastaysia: so you want us to let you out so you can try to steal from us
(21:37:26) Anyastaysia: why would we do that
(21:37:36) Anyastaysia: at risk of having our stuff taken
(21:37:45) Magitex: Please kindly have me released now, kind sirs and ladies and ill be on my way to claim my stolen OOC tria
(21:37:58) Tharkas: dude, what
(21:38:04) Mishka: Anyastaysia, /ignore
(21:38:10) Mishka: Tharkas, /ignore
(21:38:13) Tuon: that's my next steup
(21:38:28) Magitex: if you are not capable of protecting your IC guild then do not have a guild
(21:38:28) Mishka: What are you waiting for, Tuon
(21:38:33) Evirea: Lulz, PS trawlin'.
(21:38:35) Evirea: I remember it.
(21:38:36) Anyastaysia would so much rather kill him
(21:38:36) Magitex: simple as that
(21:38:46) Tharkas: not really, reading his so called "logic" is quite the trip
(21:38:56) Magitex: take only responsibily of ownership for what you keep track of and no more
(21:39:16) Magitex: this is logical and common sense
(21:39:16) Chays: Magitex is in IC jail for OOC theft? Is what I'm inferring here right?
(21:39:22) Fyodor: yep
(21:39:31) Mishka: Chays, I'm very surprised he's not banned yet.
(21:39:34) Magitex: no
(21:39:44) Kaerli: Tharkas: it is quite the trip
(21:39:46) Magitex: im not banned because i played fairly IC MODE
(21:39:57) Magitex: i am not looking for trouble
(21:40:03) Magitex: i just play IC MODE naturally
(21:40:05) Hemmel: There is no "IC mode"
(21:40:25) Evirea: It's like the human torch or something.
(21:40:27) Evirea: ROLE PLAY ON!
(21:40:29) Evirea: FWOOSH!
(21:40:29) Tuon: Magitex stole from a couple guild houses, one of them being his own
(21:40:32) Magitex: if my chracter can do it naturally IC MODE in the game then he is innocent
(21:40:49) Hemmel: That was an illogical statement.
(21:40:51) Fyodor: keep thinking I ought to join a guild, rethinking that
(21:40:54) Chays: Yeeeeeah, I think a ban and forcible return of stolen goods is in order here
(21:40:57) Magitex: unless there is a witness and can immediately show the GM the proof
(21:41:08) Chays: But I can't be arsed to join the GMs. :P
(21:41:13) Magitex: weeks later is also not legit to show proof that is OOC
(21:41:46) Tuon: he complains that the gm's used the log system to see that he sold items from the guild houses to an NPC
(21:42:01) Hemmel: Why is that a problem?
(21:42:18) Asmo: an npc that is on good standing with the guards.
(21:42:21) Kaerli: besides Chays: he's an idiot compared to the people who *actually know griefing*
(21:42:26) Tuon: and he claims that isn't considered to be IC because the NPC's aren't player characters
(21:42:27) Fyodor: he's got a problem with it because he was caught
(21:42:33) Evirea: Kaerli speaks from experience?
(21:42:35) Evirea KIDS!
(21:42:38) Evirea ducks
(21:42:53) Hemmel: Why is it a problem that the GMs can see the logs, Magitex?
(21:43:13) Mishka: Because they'll know he was doing naaaaaaaughty things :D
(21:43:18) Tuon: he's been acting like an autistic 12 year old
(21:43:24) Kerel: he is sleeping
(21:43:27) Mishka: Maybe he is
(21:43:36) Fyodor: can we not with the autism tho
(21:43:38) Kaerli: LOL: Evirea: I play Eve ;) so I know griefing
(21:43:43) Mishka: Sorry Fyodor
(21:43:48) Hemmel: I'm with Fyodor.
(21:43:59) Mishka: People tend to take these matters lightly when they get heated. I apologize.
(21:44:19) Chays: NPCs are IC. They are members of the IC world and should be acknowledged as such.
(21:44:19) Mishka: I play Minecraft. *I* know griefing!
(21:44:34) Chays: I play Second Life. Griefing knows me.
(21:51:01) Mishka: But guys
(21:51:35) Mishka: Imagine if the RCD hadn't had its items locked in place.
(21:51:38) Mishka: *shudder*
(21:52:09) Darryel: Free bar? :P
(21:52:33) Mishka: Har har
(21:52:38) Waesed: He took everything that wasn't nailed down.
(21:52:45) Mishka: Dang.
(21:59:13) Anyastaysia: jail
(21:59:14) Rykia: Rumor has it in the Octarch jail
(22:00:04) Darryel: It's a hidden place?
(22:00:17) Rykia: A locked place too. :)
(22:00:54) Darryel: What a shame :P
(22:02:19) Rykia: of course a guard simply might forget to lock the door...
(22:02:38) Anyastaysia: i hope so
-
Magitex will get a chance to defend himself at trial. I witnessed Gardr identify him as the one selling stolen goods.
-
Oh my gawd, this guy is magic - I am sorry for those who lost things but this whole situation cracks me and is making me log on right now - I think I love him :devil:
Chays got it on the nose like twice - PS YOU ARE AWESOME :love:
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We cannot tolerate such bad behavior... Some has been Banned one year for less than that...
Magitex doesnt seem to understand that if GM got some tools its for them to use...
Yes I impersonated Gardr after checking the logs... and then ?
and we caugth the missing key in his inventory (RCD's one) ... So guard doesnt have the right to check suspect's pocket ?
We Rped it from the bigening to the end, we have investigated on RCD raid since friday...
then when we heard that someone stoled a Rcd key in the Family GH we went to talk to Jemima and Damola.
Gardr Or Allelia has their own way to talk to us... via the tools we have as GM, but we RPed it.
IRL most of the Merchants are giving informations to the police... Be aware that it is the same in Yliakum...
All has been played ICly, and it's why we decided to send him in Jail instead of Banning the player with all his accounts.
now OOCly, I'm laughting when I read him claiming that it was unfair...
Do you think it's fair for the Player who spend hours looting, to get robbed their goods by one of them ?
Some who spend over 3000 hours in game collectioning goods year after year... and then a "Badie" (with less than 400 hours ingame) come take them & sold them to the first NPC, and claim to be acting ICly ? I can't show you here the list of the Items but it's a huge one... he made the millions from the sales...
What about the Red Crystal Den ? a large amount of player spending their free time trying to make this world more fun for everyone. And you think we will not look after the thief who spoiled their effort ?
One month of Jail is a very small punishment, I would myself have given him a ban... but as a team we decided to just punish him ICly and give him a warning for him to remember that next time he will get a ban for sure...
So now you've been warned Magitex...
-
Sarko, I'm with the team on the jail term, I think it's great, and I was just in game chatting with all of us OOC - I think that his biggest mistake was to sell to Gadr and think that the smith of Gug will not cooperate with the government, of course he will.
And Bilbous had the great idea for all of us to chip in to replace/rebuild the stolen items - has Wrenn really played for that long? I thought she was new so it would be easy to replace.
In any case, sell to NPCs and they can sing to the government and all goods and tria can come back to the player(s), this is only logical (and sounds like it is the rules as well).
My opinion was that it was poor etiquette and poor RP not to discuss prior - but not illegal, in the sense of game cheats (e.g. tria doubling and things like this). But unless you will eat the spoils, or sell them to bad guys (PCs or maybe Zak or Kisatol), you will get caught. Even Zak and Kiss will talk if they get enough pressure, and they've got no loyalty to the player/robber. So unless you are going to eat those fancy looted weapons, you'll get busted for sure.
OOC, no one will want to play with you. IC, also word gets around and if even bad guys cannot trust you, might be hard to find a new guild.
Anyway, it did make me laugh, but I really believed our guards/GMs/devs would take care of loot retrieval or that it would be minor enough that we the citizens could do it. Sorry if I've offended anyone by being completely amused by the whole thing. I do prefer our "overthrow Dakkru" gossip thread, but I've got a bias there.
I am sorry for Wrenn, because if she really played so long and accumulated so much, the initial part of this (before knowing she'd get stuff back) must have been stressful.
Cheers to the team for RPing it to the bitter end :love:
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I know this is obvious but I've got to say it:
PC = player character
NPC = non-player character
character = a Yliakum inhabitant, roleplayer, citizen of the realm
PCs and NPCs are characters. All of us under the crystal. A PC sells to an NPC, all IG. An NPC gives items to a PC for carrying out a task (I've got beautiful axes from a recent GM event), all IG. Just because neither Zak nor Harn have ever responded to my requests for a date, doesn't mean they are zombies and OOC (although it is kind of weird, their silence).
We are all in the pot together. THERE IS NO ESCAPE!!
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Did i missed an episod ? The people robbed were all aware and it was an agreed upon RP ? o.O Com'on.
I mean i found the GM extremly nice on this all.
Sorry Pierre, but i am kind of chocked to see that there is still people to find this funny. Magitex clearly didn't acted IC and clearly is using "IC" as an excuse for his behavior. If he was REALLY acting IC he would have asked the actual owner of the item before stealing it all and selling it (hidden) to a random NPC.
And even if Wrenn was new i don't see how less of a loose it would have been. If you gather things and keep them in GH it's for a reason, player beeing new or not.
Why are you guys acting like Magitex was IC in all innocence, he clearly wasn't.
-
For the following charges, the court finds the prosecuted to be, and therefore sentences him to:
- Godmodding: GUILTY. Sentenced to a slap on the hand.
- IC theft (presumed): GUILTY. Sentenced to banishment from the major cities.
- 2 charges of griefing: GUILTY. Sentenced to at least 1 year ban from the game.
- OOC chatter in main: GUILTY. Sentenced to a slap on the hand (second warning)
- OOC behavior: GUILTY. Sentenced to one month ban, being the third warning
- Selling the items he stole to an NPC: GUILTY. Sentenced to ostracism by the player base.
- Berating GMs and players: GUILTY. Sentenced to being called a fool (which he was already).
- Trolling and flaming (presumed): GUILTY. Sentenced to one month ban from the forums and the game.
- Betraying your own guild: GUILTY. Sentenced to banishment from his guild.
- Also, for clearing the RCD off its belongings, he's banned for life from entering. Deadly force will be used on sight.
/me bangs her hammer! "The court is dismissed."
Now I'm no GM, but I hope they do realize nobody wants him in game anymore. So...
Wrenn isn't new. She played in EZPC back when it still existed, and when I met her she was already wealthy. I know she mostly avoids RP in lieu of levelling (for which I pity her, because this game is too mind-numbingly stupid when it comes to levelling anything).
I can not, do not, and of course will not respect this offense against the trust some people place upon their guildmates. Mayhaps was Wrenn careless, too much for her own good, but I can't blame her for trusting her guildies. Then again, she learned a lesson, and won't do such a thing again, or so she told me.
The GMs have been, in my opinion, too lenient. I like this game a lot, and its playerbase as well (aside from a few loose ends here and there), and I consider this to be a disrespect not only to the players, but to the entire developer and GM teams, who try their hardest, taking life off their leisure periods, to make sure we get a nice environment in which to play. That's why I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact he's just, as if to say, getting a slap on the hand. I, as a player, demand a stronger punishment, and I'm sure many agree with me.
/rant
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Regarding Lumi's reply and before:
Oh, again the same discussion like after another guildhouse burglary series, bringing shame upon a former renowned Enkidukai clan...
Acting against the community is OOC. No matter if real or virtual property, theft is theft; and if there is no OOC agreement, it is OOC theft.
__
Regarding Mishka's reply:
Yes, you are no GM. You are not responsible for the penalization. Expressing personal opinions is granted, though...
-
Now, now, LigH, I was saying that I think he should be banned for those charges, which are my own opinion. Now, I'm sure many agree to it.
Anyways, a lot of people said it. Should he be back in game, he'll be faced with many ignores, and the playerbase will make his life impossible with nothing he could do about it. It's only fair.
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(21:43:18) Tuon: he's been acting like an autistic 12 year old
That seems to be an adequate summary.
I had a similar impression earlier during other events. When you have to deal with kiddies, it is understandable to avoid harsh sanctioning. I hope the time and effort of the GMs is not wasted, in the sense that said individual learns from the incidents.
At least an actual list of sold items is mentioned, so I hope some of it can be recovered.
-
This was an unfortunate event all the way around. Magitex took the money and ran but didn't stop to consider how to keep it all in context. If, as it seems, there was a large amount of physical loot, it would have likely taken several trips to get it all to his "fence." Each trip would be a chance of detection, many people stop outside the RCD, and stand around making someone coming out of it with a full load quite suspicious. I gather that the guild house in question is in Gugrontid on the ground level, correct me if I am wrong. This means that he very likely had to pass by Malco and at any rate selling to Gardr is not very private as there are at least two other npcs that have him in plane view.
For him to argue that NPCs cannot be in character and used to identify him means that they also cannot be used to ICly sell stuff. You can't have it both ways. Either that are characters or they are not.
His biggest fail was to take everything not nailed down instead of a few choice items that might have gone unnoticed and sold them immediately. If it had have been planned as Role Play, this is what he would have done. He clearly did not think it through very well. Clearly an act of opportunism.
The piling on by some players was also somewhat out of character, it would have been much better if they had let the guards do their thing. Then again, the guards should have just apprehended their suspect and taken him to HQ for questioning. Doing it in public invited the mess posted at the top of this thread.
Assumptions are made about NPCs that are not well founded in the settings. There are very few who have nothing to hide, and so would willingly aid in a investigation. Taking the logs is perfectly appropriate response from a GM standpoint, using them directly to bring in the witness (Gardr) not so much. It would have been better to draw it out more, bringing in a blue way master to cast divination spells while the suspect was in custody. Sadly expediency has been the touchstone of the whole affair.
If this had been a BF plot line, it would have worked the way that it did. Perhaps it really was. It certainly was chaotic.
For all that Magitex insisted that the victims should "take the loss" and move on, there were enough flaws with the execution of the theft that he should take his own advice and be glad that he was not punished more harshly. It is too easy to take advantage of the incompleteness of the mechanics which is not specific to this game but applies to any simulation and that is why GMs are required to act as police. Some games this would be officially supported behavior but not this one.
Learn from mistakes and move on.
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The gossip log is not the same as what was happening in main chat. I think it was rp'ed well.
If Magitex truly meant this as rp, the owners should have given permission to be robbed. Maybe that was his mistake and jail time with banishment and restitution would fit the crime.
We all live and learn.
-
Here is a partial log of main dialog, I didn't catch it all as it didn't really concern me. I got bored and wandered away and/or logged off and into Windows. While this was happening I did spew some irrelevancies into gossip but that was edited out.
(19:03:20) Mishka seems to be quite interested in the current events, looking at Magitex "However do you know my name?"
(19:03:22) Magitex says: please kindly do not listen to convesation
(19:03:32) Mishka says: As if you could tell me what to do.
(19:03:35) Resildren wanders neareer to the steps and listens
(19:03:39) Kerel says: sir can you confirm that your name is Magitex from the Family Guild ?
(19:04:02) Xola says: [me]
(19:04:06) Magitex says: yes, Jemima invited me a long while ago with a guild key
(19:04:10) Mishka grins smugly and folds her arms, listening intently.
(19:04:12) Magitex says: i have specific dates too
(19:04:31) Zhorala eyes Kerel again and nods as though to show some agreement.
(19:05:00) Magitex says: I cannot get up?
(19:05:07) Kerel grabs Magitex's hand and push him down on the floor "in the name of the octarch Sir Magitex we arrest you"
(19:06:25) Magitex says: I have done nothing wrong. I keep to myself.
(19:06:29) Resildren croses his arms and leans on the wall
(19:07:02) Kerel says: We got proof that you have been part of the theft in the Family's house aswell as in the Red crystal Den
(19:07:19) Mishka's smile turns into a frown "He did what?"
(19:07:36) Resildren's eyes widen
(19:07:38) Kerel says: Gardr Told us that you sold him some of the stolen item
(19:07:42) Magitex says: Thats impossible. I keep to myself and am not around others when working. especially mining and melee
(19:08:01) Kerel says: Zhorala please can you check his pocket
(19:08:06) Zhorala's face shows no hint of any emotion. "It will go easier on you if you do not lie."
(19:08:13) Magitex says: I have never bee seen or told by anyone to have done anything wrong
(19:08:19) Zhorala lowers herself slightly, clearly very well balanced, to check.
(19:08:26) Mishka says: You... RAT! I can't believe they let a rat like you get in there! You're lucky I wasn't a guard that day, else I would've made myself a new cape with your skin!
(19:08:46) Magitex says: I have nothing on me
(19:09:01) Zhorala eyes Mishka for amoment while reaching into the man's pocket. Her face suddenly turns dark as her hand finds something.
(19:09:11) Magitex says: just my rivnak ring of magic and bracers
(19:09:38) Mishka waves over at the guards "You do know the punishment for theft is banishment, don't you? He's going to get banished from Hydlaa, right?"
(19:09:42) Magitex says: may I get up now?
(19:09:43) Zhorala silently passes something to Kerel.
(19:09:59) Magitex says: I have never been seen nor accused of stealing by anyone
(19:10:03) Resildren mutters quitly " glad they gor the petty theif!
(19:10:16) Magitex says: I am too busy mining and collecting rat pelts
(19:10:26) Kerel nods " Good job Zhorala this is the key of the Red Crystal Den"
(19:10:39) Resildren says: Khaa!
(19:10:49) Mishka looks over at Resildren "He's lucky we found out with the guards around, else I'd already be lynching him."
(19:10:52) Zhorala nods. "It does appear to be the key that was reported missing."
(19:11:04) Resildren nods
(19:11:08) Magitex says: What key?
(19:11:11) Resildren says: and I'd be ther to help
(19:11:40) Xola says: good night Grindulf
(19:11:48) Zhorala says: "I'll defer to you in how we should handle this, officer Kerel"
(19:11:53) Mishka says: I'm sure we'd gather a nice mob to help. They better keep him shackled and safe in a cell, for his own good.
(19:11:53) Kerel says: Now I will release your hand If you promise to follow me
(19:12:09) Magitex says: I am innocent and cause no trouble
(19:12:25) Kerel says: you will have to prove that to the court now Magitex
(19:12:29) Zhorala turns to Mishka. Her voice is stern though the look on her face is not completely disapproving. "Mind your words, please."
(19:12:29) Magitex says: This is sooo random im not sure what to think
(19:12:48) Magitex says: alright ill prove that no one has ever told me I steal
(19:12:52) Resildren yells lock him up the scum!
(19:12:52) Grindulf looks surprised at Tuon " ...engaged? with whom?"
(19:12:53) Magitex says: ask any guild member
(19:13:11) Magitex says: I have never been told my my guild or anyone I steal
(19:13:13) Kerel says: we just had a talk with them
(19:13:28) Zhorala says: "I'm afraid there is rather a lot of evidence."
(19:13:43) Magitex says: impossible, because i rarely ever see my guild members
(19:13:57) Magitex says: and when i do, I know when they want to meet up
(19:14:04) Mishka huffs and folds her arms "Don't worry, miss, I'm not stupid enough to do anything. But surely, if you weren't around, I would be throwing him in a lava pit."
(19:14:06) Zhorala turns to Wrenn. "And who would you be?"
(19:14:17) Magitex says: lava pit?
(19:14:35) Magitex says: Mishka, you are accusing me of stealing without seeing me steal?
(19:14:37) Zhorala's lip twitches slightly at Mishka's comment.
(19:14:48) Mishka's paw glows red "I would gladly demonstrate" she nods at the guards "if I were allowed to. Please?"
(19:14:50) Magitex says: thats treason
(19:14:59) Mishka says: I'm sorry, but who am I betraying? You?
(19:15:15) Magitex says: Mishka, we have never had any problems before
(19:15:33) Mishka says: Are you in my guild? Do I know you? Have you saved my life? Have you ever bought anything from me? All I know is that you're a thieving rat, and you deserve the punishment for it.
(19:15:36) Kerel says: Oh Wrenn Your name sound familiar
(19:15:40) Magitex says: why and how can you accuse me of something when I never run into you except near Hanquist
(19:15:52) Zhorala says: "Wrenn, I was told by two of your guild members that your key had been taken."
(19:15:53) Magitex says: or maybe on the road
(19:15:54) Mishka says: I only need the guards' statement.
(19:16:18) Magitex says: Anything I own I was given or I found paying around
(19:16:24) Magitex says: laying
(19:16:37) Resildren says: Found!
(19:16:41) Mishka says: And, as it happens, I do not take kindly that someone has cleansed the Den off its belongings.
(19:16:43) Zhorala nods her head to acknowledge Waesed
(19:16:44) Magitex says: I cannot be accused of stealing when no one has seen me steal
(19:16:48) Resildren says: yea that ssounds about right1
(19:17:16) Zhorala says: "Magitex, you will have your chance to speak your part, but the evidence we have recieved is very strong."
(19:17:20) Kerel says: you sold stuff to Gardr
(19:17:21) Magitex says: if anyone is being stolen from its me and without any proof that is physical
(19:17:21) Mishka says: Yes, too bad they found that key on you, isn't it? Are you trying to tell me Levrus made it levitate into your pocket or that you found it in the fountain?
(19:17:34) Kerel says: and we just find a key in your pocket
(19:17:45) Magitex says: there is no key on my body
(19:17:54) Kerel says: now enouth talk
(19:17:58) Magitex says: my key to guild house is in my bank
(19:18:03) Zhorala says: "Will you come with us willingly?"
(19:18:11) Kerel says: let go to the Barracks
(19:18:12) Magitex says: yes, of course im innocent
(19:18:16) Resildren says: I hope not!
(19:18:21) Resildren says: dragt him away
(19:18:25) Magitex says: i have nothing to hide from
(19:18:35) Resildren says: they found the thief
(19:18:36) Zhorala says: "Good, then I suggest you come with us."
(19:18:44) Resildren says: the one who hit the den!
(19:18:46) Magitex says: I am not a thief
(19:18:47) Mishka starts booing at him, in hopes everyone else will join in.
(19:18:55) Kerel says: keep an eye on him Zhorala
(19:18:57) Bilbous says: call the blueway master
(19:18:58) Magitex says: no proof
(19:19:05) Mishka says: Booooo! Thief! Booo!
(19:19:06) Zhorala nods. "Lead the way, Kerel "
(19:19:16) Mishka says: To jail with him! Boooo!
(19:19:23) Resildren says: thief, I hope they Hang you!!
(19:19:50) Mishka says: Let's grab spoiled baked apples and throw them at him!
(19:20:39) Resildren says: we'll gety our chance
(19:20:45) Resildren says: the scum!
(19:20:51) Mishka says: I hope they banish him for life.
(19:21:12) Mishka says: I certainly know that I won't be having him enter the Den anymore.
(19:21:32) Kaerli looks between Resi and Mishka "Greetings Resi and Mishka...who is it who won't be entering the Den any longer?"
(19:21:47) Mishka says: That Magitex weirdo. He's the one that robbed the Den.
(19:21:52) Resildren says: Magtex the scum
(19:22:01) Kaerli says: Weirdo Ylian?
(19:22:09) Mishka says: Yes, the same.
(19:22:09) Resildren says: you got it
(19:22:09) Kaerli laughs "Serves him right, caught robbin' the Den."
(19:22:24) Resildren says: and I'm glad they caught him
(19:22:28) Mishka says: I know I'm going to shove my sword through his gut if I see him entering the Den again.
(19:22:39) Resildren says: seems he even robbed his own guild
(19:23:01) Kaerli says: Wonder if someone should hold *him* up at knifepoint...
(19:23:02) Resildren says: and thats low
(19:23:05) Mishka clicks her tongue "Traitor scum..."
(19:23:30) Resildren says: should balance him on knifepoint
(19:23:37) Kaerli winks to Resi
(19:23:40) Mishka says: If I ever got caught robbing the Lair, I would be thrown down the Eagle, and then down the Windowless Tower. And then banished.
(19:23:55) Mishka says: We need to give him a lesson!
(19:24:06) Mishka looks thoughtful.
(19:24:11) Resildren says: your own guild! / what a scum bag
(19:24:21) Mishka says: I know!
(19:24:37) Mishka says: When they release him, if they do, we all grab him, and chop his hand off.
(19:24:50) Kaerli says: Yeah. Donari would probably have me thrown right back in that blasted Imperial dungeon if I tried such a stunt.
(19:24:51) Mishka says: That's what you get for thieving and betraying your guild.
I wonder what the point of posting the gossip stuff was, It sure opened a can of worms.
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I rarely get on but after reading all that, I have come to the conclusion that the community of (real players) distorted everything, ganged up on, and whined their way to making Magitex's life miserable. Magitex is rarely seen by me but I usually caught him running back and forth to the mining spot outside Hydlaa. He also plays mostly during the later hours past 11PM eastern time to do what ever he is doing. I personally have never caught him stealing or doing anything wrong in the game. And even if he did steal something, he is right. Unless someone personally caught him doing in red handed, he's by definition as a player in character mode innocent since stealing is possible in the game. The fact of the matter, Magitex RPed very well and did not get caught by a real player and no one can handle it and is just whining about it except a few players who clearly understand that it's all part of the game. In conclusion, give him back his tria he RPed very well in game as a deceptive bastard thief and learn from your mistakes when it comes to in game stuff.
I am happy he won't be banned. He makes the game very interesting and I have learned a lot when it comes to one-day picking out my guild and being responsible for my stuff and guild building. I am not picking anyone side but Magitex has done nothing wrong if we all can recongnize that he stole IC (in character) and did a very good job being sneaky about it in a planned manner. He's right, only a real player should be able to ban or use proof against him, not a non living game variable like an NPC who repetitively says what is programmed by devs.
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if that were the case then only real people could buy his loot because the npcs don't exist and can't be used in roleplay. They also couldn't store his loot so he would have been only able to steal as much as he could carry.
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Guild House > Guild House Key > Guild Member = Individual Responsibility \\o//
Real People Behind The Screen > Character Moving Controlled By Real Person > RP Environment > Individual Responsibility With Real Eyes To Witness Bad Behavior / Good Behavior > Screenshot (Proof) Of Action Taken > Hand Over Evidence To GM / DEVS
Server Collects Data > GM Uses It To Improve Game / Not Use It Against Player In Game Actions Unless Proof Is Sent To GM In The Game
No Screenshot > No Video Recording > No RP Chat Log For Malicious Intent Said To Other Players > No Proof
............ I think this is what Magitex was trying to make clear to everyone in a simple manner. Looks fair to me. \\o//
............ Real players no longer take responsibility for their own actions while playing a game and would rather screw over another player by ratting them out using GM's + OOC Tools > To Maintain Self By Revenge :devil:
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Acting against the community is OOC. No matter if real or virtual property, theft is theft; and if there is no OOC agreement, it is OOC theft.
This resume the whole debate and PS rules about theft, for those who don't even know what they are talking about... Thanks LigH.
I think this is what Magitex was trying to make clear to everyone in a simple manner. Looks fair to me.
Like it's been said before Many theft tried in the past (no, you're not the first) and most of them has been banned without any warning. hopefully Magitex you're not the one making the rules we are following...
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:sorcerer: The easiest way to resolve the problem is for the developers to code the game in such a way so that no one can find a way to steal from others. Clearly, the developers have failed under this circumstance and poor Magitex was unjustly punished for it. Not much of a community if you leave behind even 1 member who just happened to be playing the game within allowed code parameters. :sorcerer:
Unfortunately, Sarko lacks GM experience and should not take on such a role that requires fairness to everyone, even the under dogs who just happen to figure out something over time and fairly got away with it.
Imagine the interesting RPing that will be happening now in the next several months. Watch out everyone!
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Perhaps it is a good time to point at this thread (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=31960.0)
Planeshift Game Rules and Policies
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Sarko has been a GM for at least the 4 years that I've been on PS. I doubt that he lacks experience.
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did you think I posted it for his benefit? hah comment wasn't aimed at me :o
whats this?
* use common sense. If we know an action will upset another player in real-life, we won't do it.
common sense isn't so common.
/me channels my inner Apu, "Why don't I shut up, I can't believe I don't shut up!"
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It can be very difficult to play a bad guy that other players enjoy playing with. Well done bad guys are some of the hardest characters to play imho. You are in a position where you want to make the other characters hate you, yet you also want to make fellow players enjoy playing with you at the same time.
I've played several shady characters over the years and have enjoyed it thoroughly. Most of the folks who have played with my characters have had fun too. I know this because I stay in touch with them oocly and try my best to ensure that they too are having just as much fun as I am. If my character rips them off or harms them, I'll make a point of it to ensure that at some point, they too enjoy some form of satisfaction.
Making the game fun for fellow players is the key, I think, in playing a baddie.
Good luck, and Whisper bless!
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Having read the first thread now and having had a moment to wipe the blood from my eyeballs, I'll drop a few things here that may be of help for Magitex and/or any others who wish to play baddies. I hope this helps.
Continuity checking:
Try checking to see if everything leading up to the action in question is supported ICly. All character knowledge must stem purely from IC sources and events. All actions must be things that are natural and possible in the IC world. ( Spawning somewhere / logging in is not natural icly. Likewise, graphical glitches and game exploits are not natural in the ic world ) .
IC/OOC Separation:
You absolutely must keep all *player knowledge* out of your character's heads. Never let your character act on information that is in YOUR head, but not in HIS. Your character only knows what he or she experiences in the IC world. Your character knows what they have seen, heard, tasted, touched, and physically felt. They do not *just* know things because its convenient for their player.
If you catch yourself saying "my character WOULD HAVE or COULD HAVE or SHOULD HAVE known X", then you are probably cheating. Your character knows only what enters them through the five senses. Uf you make an exception for some magical ability like azure way, then be clear about it with fellow players and make sure they are ok with it.
*** Keep in mind here, players who do not yet know how to separate their character's mind from their own mind will not be able to do this. Unless you want to get into a tiresome argument, do your best to avoid situations where the other player needs to be able to do this. Don't tell unskilled players IC secrets in OOC chat. Only do that with solid role players if you feel there is some need to do so.
NPC Acknowledgment:
Play as if the NPCs are regular citizens. Play as if the Guards are real and are watching. Assume that *good* characters will respond to requests from guards. For bad characters like ( ie. Zak, Guile, Reliom ) you can generally assume that they will follow self serving or malicious motivations, but ultimately, you as a player cannot really make assumptions about what an NPC *would* do or say. That right there is pretty close to god modding the NPC.
Assuming that a Guard will not notice your actions is just as bad as assuming that an NPC would readily rat you out to the guards. Its best to avoid this kind of situation alltogether when possible. This means, do not role play crimes in front of other NPCs and do not try to play the "NPCX would have said this" card.
Play Realistically
This ties in with consistency checking. Just because your character can stuff 30 swords, four large, oak cabinets and a few berries into their sack does not mean that they can do this ICly. You need to think critically about your character's abilities and limitations.
Personally, I make my characters forget things, drop things, or just flat out screw up. These imperfections in play will give other players good opportunities to get a foothold on the action.
Did you hear the story about the unknown thief who never got caught?
Yah, neither did I. In role playing and in story writing, this does not work out so well. A role played thief who never gets caught and is completely unknown looks nothing like a thief. Unless their thievery comes into play in some other way, they might as well not be thieves in the first place. If you are going to play a shady character, then make sure and get hem a little dirty. They don't have to be the town misfit, but they should not be squeaky clean either.
Getting Caught and Consequences
If you are going to play a criminal character, then really get into the character and play all the consequences too. Makes mistakes here and there, let other characters accuse you and try to prove them wrong. Allow other characters to chase you and try to throw them off your trail. When you eventually get caught, play your consequences! Role play your time in the cell and if you do it well enough, you'll have fellow players sending their characters in to visit (or taunt ) your character.
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I think I will add a few points briefly.
1.
It wasn't only Sarko's decision to handle things any certain way. A GM doesn't just make a decision this large all by themselves - they talk about it between themselves and often with whichever developers are available at the time as well.
2.
The guards did not just materialize out of thin air and arrest Magitex. That is the first most players will have seen of it, and certainly the first many will have heard of it due to how vocal he became in gossip, but there was a whole chain of RP involving several players who had been hurt by the theft.
I've sat and checked up with a few people and gathered the facts, so that I can show there was RP behind it all:
The guards inspected the house lock for damage and concluded it was either a very skilled thief or someone with a key since there was no damage. They then interviewed members of the guild and requested a list of all key bearers. They asked if anyone had suspicions about who was to blame. They asked if anyone on that list had been acting suspiciously.
Magitex's name came to light at this point in the RP due to his strong stance against the feelings of the rest of his guild at the economic council meeting.
The guards then also collected a list of items that had been stolen based on the memories of the victims. Merchants were then asked if anyone had attempted to sell them these items, closest merchants to the house first.
Logs were only looked at to then confirm if these trades took place or not for a given NPC. NPCs are real individuals as far as anything IC is concerned. Otherwise they could not buy items or give you items in a quest. It doesn't matter if they don't usually have actual players behind them. From an in character perspective, no character would understand what IC or OOC or a player character even is.
There were also no opportunities generated by Magitex for anyone to gain RP interaction with him, though I guess he will argue with this as well. This is very different, either way, from the type of 'bad guy' RP I've seen from characters like Rigwyn who are willing to be caught and who are even willing to lose when it makes sense to do so.
With all that said, I think Magitex got off very lightly here.
[edits only for silly typos - I am not yet awake enough for good english]
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(...) He clearly did not think it through very well. Clearly an act of opportunism. (...)
Exactly. Just that. Opportunism. He could so he did that's ALL.
Just read Rygwyn post and you will see that it ask a lot more work to play that kind of things IC than just *open. Steal. Sell.* and all of that ALONE with no one to interact with. He clearly wasn't "role-playing" and yes i will use the word like LigH said : Magitex was OOC !
Can't beleive there are still people to beleive him, and to find it "sooo sooo cool". And "poor" Magitex... Are you serious ?
+ Agree with Taya. Guards were VERY nice and they made it IC because they could and not because they beleive HE was. I found that smart. And Magitex should just be thanksfull.
Edit / P.S: For the robbed people : How can we help guys ?
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He can't be that stupid. Guys. We're being trolled. I'm going to report him to Talad, I think...
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(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/318/507/080.jpg)
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I read somewhere that:
"It take more to be Evil than just act like mad..." :offtopic:
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From knowing how some situations have been handled in the past, I would definitely say he got off easy. It would have been handled differently under the old gm team. Taya is very thorough in her research. People that cover their ears and pretend they don't hear, or spin excuses to cover something they know was incorrect are not fun to play with in the long run for the rest of the players.
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Thanks to Rigwyn for the line up how to rp a evil char \\o//
To Magitex, I believe he has another or shall I say wrong understanding of IC rp. I have been at a similar point in the beginning and only with more explanation and rping with experienced rper's I was able to truly understand what rp really means. Sometimes I also had exchange in rl with ps people about how things were being handled, especially almost same situation we had before. Perhaps Magitex needs more investigation to understand what is ooc, what ic...it wont come down on his mind in one day. He may need more time to understand. I am willing to investigate in explanations for this for Magitex. And I agree that Magitex got off easy. Magitex if you steal a key in a guildhouse, you need to give a hint to the character in any way to let the character be able to respond to it.
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@ Mouli:
Yes, indeed. But I once meant a quite different context...
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Discussable robberies repeatedly lead to bad atmosphere amoung players and get discussed lengthy with repeating points.
I suggest a little addition to the rules concerning robberies for easier handling in future.
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Discussable robberies repeatedly lead to bad atmosphere amoung players and get discussed lengthy with repeating points.
I suggest a little addition to the rules concerning robberies for easier handling in future.
Seconded. When good ol' common sense just can't handle it, may as well make sure that it's put in stone.
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This basic concept happened to me as well (replace Magitex with Garris), so I understand both sides of the feelers/story.
Basically, Magitex, you honestly just need to be completely sure you're separating In-Character as far away from Out-Of-Character as possible.
Then, follow Rigwyn's advice - make sure your actions are fun for everyone. This can turn into an incredibly narcissistic game otherwise. I've been there. People hate you as a result. Get dirt on yourself, don't be afraid.
Lastly, be willing to adapt and change.
Community-wise, you all need to be willing to give him a second chance. Based off of what the game-masters have decided, Magitex is worth it. You all need to give him that same benefit of the doubt.
Shunning is never ok.
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Magitex logic is quite flawed, as I’m sure most of us agree.
He says he stole the stuff fairly and IC, and should get off scot-free. But in the RL world, when you steal stuff, you end up in jail, which is where he is now. IC action, IC consequence. Sounds good to me.
Magitex further asserts that because no one saw him steal the stuff, there is no IC proof. I’ve never seen Jemima chase anyone’s tail, but I’m quite sure she is a tail-chaser. It’s called RP for a reason.
About my stolen items: I got back the two most important items. I hope the rest of the stuff can be replaced through further game-play, which isn’t a bad thing. I do wonder, however, if there were items that can only be bestowed through quests and if those quests are repeatable. I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.
Someone wondered how long I’ve been playing PS. The Wrenn Bombadill char was created 11.01.2010. It’s true: I don’t particularly enjoy RP. I do enjoy “leveling.” Think of it as “Protestant Work Ethic.”
I’ve already taken all of my stuff out of the guildhouse.
Much thanks to Mishka and the other guards/GMs/DEVs for all their help. And thanks to all the people who have offered to help replace stolen items. \\o// Additionally my deepest apologizies for my role in this mess. X-/
*Edited for typos
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Wrenn, it was the fact that you reported your lose to the guards that lead to them discovering his theft from the RCD. Whenever a thief sells something to a merchant he runs the risk of discovery, whether in rp or rl.
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Wow.... I see a lot I agree with in terms of criticism, but I'm torn between shaking my head and laughing on this one. This is worth not lurking though.
Having been in the position of getting robbed like that my sympathy is with the people robbed; however, being that I am on the other side of that experience, I do know that you will get over the hurt feelings and may even find ways to restore lost RP items that cannot simply be looted. I lost some of my handwritten poetry books, from before you could load text to books, but fortunately other players had copies; I even got back the book that only had one copy. I also know that people in Magitex's position can learn and do better in time since one of the players still floating around here now was involved in the robbing of my guild house and other RP scandals using the same bad RP reasoning and now they seem to be functioning fine from what I can see on the forum.
One sentence version of the thread: The key is to compromise and RP in a way that doesn't destroy another player's ability to enjoy the game.
Even if you haven't done wrong, try to find a way to share enjoyment like Rig has said. :)
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He says he stole the stuff fairly and IC, and should get off scot-free. But in the RL world, when you steal stuff, you end up in jail, which is where he is now. IC action, IC consequence. Sounds good to me.
And me. Wrenn, your post is excellent, seriously good attitude. Again, huge props to our GMs and team for RPing this thing out, Sarko, Taya et al., much appreciated.
Two things - first for Lumi, I think I was the only one amused (from the gossip chat when I logged in), most people were pretty mad, so direct your irritation to me because I deserve it. [EDIT: And to be honest, it looks like I was wrong - because if it's a RP theft on a massive scale, then the player would have been absolutely willing to go along with the fact that the Gug smithy would spill the beans when questioned by government officials. It's a continuation of the RP and involves many, enhances the immersion factor of the game by a factor of a million.]
Second, I don't know about this shunning thing....I think that if a player has really pissed off a lot of people it is completely acceptable for the /ignore command to be used. Not everyone is going to shun him anyway, but it's a lesson if most chars don't talk to you IG, that you're not playing in a way that enhances the game. Fair play.
Most important to me is the outline of the RP as given by Taya. All well thought out, well played, consistent with settings. Love it, glad for it.
Great thread, cheers all :love:
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Community-wise, you all need to be willing to give him a second chance. Based off of what the game-masters have decided, Magitex is worth it. You all need to give him that same benefit of the doubt.
Shunning is never ok.
Except when he is a troll. Which I suspect he is.
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Belief versus knowledge?
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;D Still on about, was he sincerely RP-ing or not ? Gosh !
If you already was around him more then 5 minutes then you have your answer. Him beeing nice or not makes no difference.
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here is what really happened into the RcD...
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae177/warfrican/shot175_zps86b18521.jpg
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Thas' a huge dwarf!
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(http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/haushalt/e035.gif)
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Magitex's player suffers from mental disability and should be allowed to do whatever he pleases since it always turns out hilarious.
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redacted
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lolwut :-\