PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: gonger on January 08, 2015, 07:17:18 pm
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JE SUIS
CHARLIE
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We're with you, Charlie.
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JE SUIS CHARLIE !
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Nous sommes Charlie....aussi
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(http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4935480.ece/alternates/s2197/Je-suis-Charlie.jpg)
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Je suis Charlie.
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Ils sont tous Charlie.
(http://www.studiosabbadin.org/dw/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=comics:charlie.png)
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Il n'y a pas de Nolthrir! Nous sommes Charlie aussi!
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It makes one wonder if a publication were to make a back biting joke about the holocaust how much indignation it would bring about? Yet to poke at one of the most sacred tenants of Islam (making a picture of Mohamad) brings cries of freedom of expression. The publishers of that rag seem to have had no respect for such a thing. They poked at the hornets' nest and were bitten. I am not Charlie!
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indignation =/= murder.
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indignation =/= murder.
Yeah no kidding. Political outcry and protests and whanot is one thing. Encourage boycotting if you're pissed. Twelve people being slaughtered isn't just "being indignant."
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It makes one wonder if a publication were to make a back biting joke about the holocaust how much indignation it would bring about? Yet to poke at one of the most sacred tenants of Islam (making a picture of Mohamad) brings cries of freedom of expression. The publishers of that rag seem to have had no respect for such a thing. They poked at the hornets' nest and were bitten. I am not Charlie!
Yes it's a rag, it's a SATIRICAL Newspaper. Do they even pretended the contrary ? It make them even more a symbol of that freedom of expression. Does publishing caricature is worth a massacre ? Are you gonna live in a cave not to "poke the hornet's nest" ? They are fanatics why do you talk of "poke" and "bite", such weak words, instead of "opinion" and "free massacre"?
Je suis Charlie.
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What gets me is all the Muslims pushing blasphemy laws in Christian dominated countries and not realizing that those laws would make them, the Muslims, all criminals as Islam came about by heresy. The god that gave his only son to die for the sins of the world is not the same god that used a mere mortal for the same purpose. Then again Christianity is a Jewish heresy too, so where does it stop? If you are Scandinavian do you have to worship Odin and the gang? What gods came before them? Do Greeks have to follow Apollo, et al? The Roman's Zeus? Did I get those backwards?
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It makes one wonder if a publication were to make a back biting joke about the holocaust how much indignation it would bring about? Yet to poke at one of the most sacred tenants of Islam (making a picture of Mohamad) brings cries of freedom of expression. The publishers of that rag seem to have had no respect for such a thing. They poked at the hornets' nest and were bitten. I am not Charlie!
People should be allowed to express themselves. It's a basic freedom - something that not everyone has. Without the safety to think and speak freely, we are a step closer to being slaves to the will of another.
These *individuals* could have used their freedom of speech to say that they did not like these cartoons. Instead, they chose to go on a murderous rampage and then attempt to cleanse themselves of the guilt of doing so by claiming that it was for a good cause. This layer of deceit may cleanse them of their guilt in their own eyes, but it does not in the eyes of the rest of the world.
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Just because it was reported that last words were "X paid for this" doesn't mean X was more than a middleman or that the dying man was not intentionally misinformed. New surveillance powers for the spooks were called for awfully quickly. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
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It makes one wonder if a publication were to make a back biting joke about the holocaust how much indignation it would bring about? Yet to poke at one of the most sacred tenants of Islam (making a picture of Mohamad) brings cries of freedom of expression. The publishers of that rag seem to have had no respect for such a thing. They poked at the hornets' nest and were bitten. I am not Charlie!
Charlie Hebdo publishes satire. About everything they consider worth of being satirised. In other words, they are not an anti-Muslim / anti-Islam publication, but they target also Christians, the Pope, or politicians of every wing. Anything, anyone.
This is a link to a short video that might make this a bit more clear. It also shows and translates several other covers of Charlie Hebdo:
http://www.vox.com/2015/1/8/7515673/charlie-hebdo-cartoons-translated
After reading your posting I can only say:
JE SUIS
CHARLIE
plus que jamais
(more than ever)
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Freedom of expression is fine and all, but I don't consider Charlie Hebdo's cartoons of Muhammad to be a "healthy" display of it. Some of those published are only disrespectful and offensive IMO. What good is there in using that freedom if it only mocks, provokes and hurts others. Why not use it responsibly in a positive manner instead.
Anyway whether you see it this way or not, I think we can all however agree on that the shootings themselves were just horrible and wrong.
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I wish you all would understand the German language good enough to appreciate the statement of Oliver Kalkofe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giEzDxoFYTk), another satirist. He never knew limits about the targets of his parodies either. He explains perfectly well why religion and belief can never be a reason for violence; yet it is the probably most abused reason. But fanatism is not religion.
One point he mentions in his statement: A strong god of a good religion will neither be afraid of people not believing, nor need to ask morons to kill non-believers to convince them — a good religion convinces without fear or force...
Interesting statement of Hisbollah chief Nasrallah (http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Lebanon-News/2015/Jan-09/283552-takfiri-groups-offended-prophet-mohammad-more-than-the-cartoons-mocking-him.ashx):
Extremist religious groups following a "takfiri" ideology have offended the Prophet Mohammad more than the Western cartoons mocking him, Hezbollah chief Hasan Nasrallah said Friday.
The term "takfiri" was explained as "moslems mocking other moslems as non-believers"; this shall be a common nick used by Shiitic Hisbollah members to mock Sunnite jihadists... irony is entertaining.
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They poked at the hornets' nest and were bitten.
They were not bitten, but savagely slaughtered. Does this really seem like a proportionate, adequate reaction to you?
If someone throws paint bombs, for example, we can talk about bitten. It is still wrong, but at least moderate, and does not kill anybody.
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The critical difference, as every psychologist, philosopher, sociologist, ethicist and plain thinking person realizes, is that there is an absolute difference between thought and expressing thought in a spoken, sung, drawn, danced or written medium (in this case satire) and action. Thought in a free world must not be limited. Action however requites physical effect on others, and is mediated by laws. Thought is not murder. Murder is an action, not a thought.
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I'm Charlie too,
but they are more source of indignation than CHARLIE, and most of those are just kept under silence just because it doesnt touch Occidental country...
- Last week in Pakistan 168 childrens killed in a school, most of them didnt even have 10 years old,
- Yesterday in Nigeria, a young girl (10 years old) has been used as Human bomb in a Market.
http://www.france24.com/en/20150110-boko-haram-nigeria-maiduguri-girl-suicide/
- Boko Haram in Nigeria still using the 200 young ladies they kidnaped in a school (older has 16 years old only), as prostitutes for their mercenaries, For those ladies i remember of a indignation movement #bringbackourgirl, but now ppl forgot about those childrens, and the movement has never been that much important for those children than for the 5 olds CHARLIE's Drawers...
Are drama more important when it touchs Occidental country ?
are those 12 old provocator more important than all those childrens ?
this world can't really works if it goes with 2 differents speed...
As I said, I've been a Charlie's Fan for more than 25 years, as french I read Charlie since my 16th years maybe even before and Im now over 40, but please keep in mind that they are a lot more problem in this world than CHARLIE, and all those movement should have been raised up before Charlie's attack
Have a good day, and maybe see you at the Charlie's march
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You will have been Charlie, insha'allah. I think they deserve what they got for insulting our prophet. Also, freedom of expression, right? ;)
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:thumbdown: Troll alarm ... you may have the freedom to express your opinion, but not to force it upon others. Nothing justifies murder.
Still, Mouli is right, some events are made more important than others to us. And now that the police investigator commited suicide (http://www.globalresearch.ca/charlie-hebdo-attack-police-investigator-commits-suicide/5424106), conspiracy theorists are well fed.
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You will have been Charlie, insha'allah. I think they deserve what they got for insulting our prophet.
I don't remember hearing Allah say that he considers the Charlie Hebdo satire an insult of the prophet.
Also, freedom of expression, right? ;)
Well, yes, freedom of expression does include the freedom to show others your degree of intelligence.
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You will have been Charlie, insha'allah. I think they deserve what they got for insulting our prophet. Also, freedom of expression, right? ;)
And so the radical Islamists will get what they deserve when the US Military kicks some butt. Of couse, we need to wait for a President that will take care of business. And we should not rebuild after we destroy them. Look at the thanks we get/got after rebuilding Europe and Japan.
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But but the American political class are in bed with the Saudi royal family who are spreading all this nonsense around the Islamic community. Where will you find someone who will refuse to dance with the ones that brung them?
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The TEA Party is headed in the right direction if we can get enough of the Repulicrates out of the way.
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/me sights "They lost all the wars they have been involved in the last 40 years, they are responsibles for most of those terrorism around the world and keep thinking that war, is the best way to solve the problem... IMHO education is the way to go... but nevermind because In god they trust"
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No kind of hate will cure another kind of hate.
Nothing generates more profit than war.
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P.S.: "Restrain yourself, Jurgen."
(http://frupic.frubar.net/thumbs/32559.png) (http://frupic.frubar.net/32559)
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Nothing generates more profit than war.
Profit for some only. The country as a whole will be pretty much ruined - again.
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Another proverb: "Money is never lost; it only belongs to someone else." — Mostly to the Rothschild and Rockefeller families, some sources about worldwide national debts claim.
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/me sights "They lost all the wars they have been involved in the last 40 years, they are responsibles for most of those terrorism around the world and keep thinking that war, is the best way to solve the problem... IMHO education is the way to go... but nevermind because In god they trust"
We should have nuked China. The no-win policy of the UN and US is the worst way to fight a war. Go in, kill them and go home. Ike warned us about the military-industrial complex. You can make fun of the Christians in this country and we may even laugh with you, but try saying anything bad about Islam in the Muslim countries and you're dead, period.
"God bless the republic! Death to the new world order! We shall prevail!"
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We should have nuked China. The no-win policy of the UN and US is the worst way to fight a war. Go in, kill them and go home. Ike warned us about the military-industrial complex. You can make fun of the Christians in this country and we may even laugh with you, but try saying anything bad about Islam in the Muslim countries and you're dead, period.
"God bless the republic! Death to the new world order! We shall prevail!"
If this is a joke, it is not funny.
If you are being serious, then I wonder why you are only talking hate and violence in this thread. Which is exactly what the "radical Islamists" - whom you despise so much - are doing.
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I think he's kidding. Probably. Maybe? God I hope so. ::|
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Gonger, the USA has fought Islamist since the start of our nation. The "Marine Corp Hymn" says "to the shores of Tripoli" so it is nothing new. The right of people and nations to defend themselves should never be hindered. Has the USA screwed up? You bet we have. But there has never been another nation that has done more to help others in the history of the world.
It was an extreme embarrassment to the American people that our President did not march with the others in Paris. Our leaders have failed to serve the people of our nation and we are changing it. We will not become socialist.
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/me sights "They lost all the wars they have been involved in the last 40 years, they are responsibles for most of those terrorism around the world and keep thinking that war, is the best way to solve the problem... IMHO education is the way to go... but nevermind because In god they trust"
We should have nuked China. The no-win policy of the UN and US is the worst way to fight a war. Go in, kill them and go home. Ike warned us about the military-industrial complex. You can make fun of the Christians in this country and we may even laugh with you, but try saying anything bad about Islam in the Muslim countries and you're dead, period.
"God bless the republic! Death to the new world order! We shall prevail!"
I hope that's a joke, but even if it is, it's so horribly inappropriate to put it here, or anywhere for that matter. To France, this is probably like 9/11. Even though there were a lot more deaths then, this is one of the first acts of terrorism coming directly from France's interior, so it's a big deal to them, and it should be to everyone else, too. I have friends irl who are Muslim, and they are nothing like what you are describing. What we really need to do is take this situation a lot more seriously, but stop spreading hate about Muslims. There are so many of them in this world, but only a tiny percentage of them are anywhere close to terrorists.
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there's 4chan for all this.
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We will not become socialist.
allow the socialism to trickle down to the little people.
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allow the socialism to trickle down to the little people.
[/quote]
I am one of the little people. I intend to die a free man and not suck on the government tit.
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Gonger, the USA has fought Islamist since the start of our nation. [...] But there has never been another nation that has done more to help others in the history of the world.
[...]
In the last few decades your nation did more harm than any good. Look to Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan. The situation in these countries did only get worse after the US intervened there. The US didn't intervene in these countries for humanitarian purposes.
In Syria the US actually supports Islamic rebel groups, so that they might overthrow the current leader of Syria one day. Even with the ongoing support of terror groups for several years, Assad has had enough support from his people to stay in power.
I'm afraid US is aiming for world dominance for a new world order. That's the greatest threat to the world. Now they try to destroy the sovereignty of Russia, next will be China.
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I think this thread is really getting out of hand.
Maybe we should simply close it...