PlaneShift
Gameplay => In-Game Roleplay Events => Topic started by: Roled on May 01, 2015, 08:54:40 pm
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Speaking With the God/dess the religious discussion, is May 9th, upon the lawn of Jayose's Libram. Its at noon PDT which I think is -8 GMT but I don't know about daylight time's effects across the pond. All are invited!
There is a panel of religious scholars, one representing the tenets of each of the God and Goddess's of our Dome. The panel will be moderaed by Arch Chancellor Tuatenach of the Knowledge Seekers, and includes Sir Wulfur representing the teachings of Talad, Lady Poezza speaking of the power of Dakkru, Priestess Siteya offering insight into the balancing wisdoms of Xiosia and Sir Eresae [sp?] proclaiming the disciplines and requirements of true faith in Laanx. There will also be a time of questions from the attendees to the experts.
A potluck lunch will be available courtesy of the cooks and chefs of our land [please bring food and drink to share!]
The Speaking may include unlooked for insights and unanticipated turns of event. Don't miss the Speaking With the God/dess event!
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If you'd like to help with the event there are lots of things to do- please contact RR in game or at Roled in pm.
Also! We will have 3 "prepared" questions for the panelist each to address. WHAT WOULD YOU like to ask a God or Goddess? Please put your suggestions of questions here and we will try to incorporate your ideas. Also please come to the event with your question(s) in mind (not a book actually "in mind" on your puppet, but well you know what I mean) to make for a lively hour or two! Thanks!
RR
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Is anyone interested in attending? Just wondering...
RR ::|
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I'm planning on it, assuming rl circumstances allow it!
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I'll try- rl keeps getting in the way.
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I'd like to attend, if I can. O--)
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Iridia tells me its 20 UTC... great! Please remind your friends ig!
Thank you!
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Here is my log of event. I did take out bits I do not regard as essential like x stands up or y eats a pie or a claps for b. Hope that is ok. Also I had a client crash then difficulties getting back in so missed ~ 10 minutes. Thanks to Roled for his orginisation, it was a fun/interesting event.
Roled shouts: Friends! Welcome! Help yerselves to beer and pie--- we will start in a few minutes, but if ye'd like ye could also check the books on Religion in our library- AND please remember....
Roled shouts: there will be a time fer Questions of our Religious Scholars, so please think about what ye'dlike to know!
Roled shouts: I will introduce our Esteemed Guests in a few minutes- please! Greet each other if ye will andhelp yerself to pie!
Roled reaches to brush back his hair, and his hand hits his helmet. Embarassed, he turns red and removes thehelm quickly.
Tuathanach says: can speakers make their way to the podiums
Roled shouts: Friends all ! WE be about to begin today's discussion, "Speak With the God/dess"! Please say hello to yer neighbors and get yerself a pie and or a beer, and prepare! I will introdue our special guests and experts in 2 minutes!
Evirea sighs quietly and mutters something under her breath.
Roled goest to Tua's side and whispers to him briefly
>Roled Rolak makes a bow to Tuathanach.
Roled says: "Sir Tua..." Roled drops his voice
Tuathanach nods
Roled shouts: FRRIENDS ALL! Welcome!
Roled shouts: We be honored by each of yer presence with us here today to Speak With the God/dess! Of couse,tho the Deities be present in our daily lives we do not expect any of them to physically incarnate today... however
Roled shouts: we have four Scholars and Experts to speak of the Powers and their Faiths. After some preparedremarks we will also take questions from the Audience! Now! It be my honor to introduce our Moderator!
Roled shouts: Arch Chancellor Sir Tuathanach be the leader of the Knowledge Seekers Guild, of which I be theProfessor of Magicks. Sir Tua leads the University of Yliakum and is himself an expert on Religions! Sir Tua will introduce our Esteemed Scholars, ! Friends please welcome Sir Tuathanach!
Roled steps away, clapping for Tua
Tuathanach knocks the stand in front with his hammer and waves
Poezza nervously plays with her wand
Eresae claps softly, and looks at the others standing on the stage with him.
Tuathanach shouts: To my far right and your left we have Lady Siteya, who will be speaking on behalf of Xiosia, the mother godess
Siteya bows her head momentarily and lifts it smiling with a small wave
Tuathanach shouts: Next we have my fellow lemur Sir Eresae, Who will speak on behalf of Laanx, the masked god
Tuathanach shouts: and last we have by no means least Lady Poezza, who will represent the godess of Death, Dakkru
Poezza nods a greeting at the audience
Tuathanach shouts: sadly due to unforssen circumstances our Talad representitive has been unable to attend
Tuathanach shouts: I will start with 3 prepared quests each will answer in turn
Tuathanach shouts: First question is:
Tuathanach shouts: What do you find to be the most important aspects of your god or godesses teachings and how do they affect followers? What are the most exemplary parts of your traditions for citizens?
Tuathanach shouts: Siteya can you go first?
Siteya nods and clears her throat.
Siteya shouts: First, I would like to take a moment and express my gratitude to Roled for bringing togetherthis panel of gifted scholars to discuss the Deities of the realm. I firmly believe that these sorts of gatherings within the community will help us all feel more enlightenment and more connected to the spiritual.
Siteya shouts: I would also like to state openly, that my interpretation and understanding of Xiosia not only comes from many cycles of personal devotion and worship, but is also fortified with many hours of debate and study, as well as the collective learned experiences with my coven sisters, The Daughter's of Xiosia. We do not have to draw as many conclusions about Xiosia as Her presences is very real and felt by so many of us with her many sightings throughout the land.
Roled bows and turns red.
Siteya shouts: Harm none, do what though wilt. This is the divine mantra I prophess as founder of the Daughters of Xiosia. The core belief above all others in our coven. When we recognize that we are creatures of Her realm, and all other living things are also held in Her bosom, we recognize the blessings of Her many gifts and thus awaken to the greatest gnosis...the symbiotic relations of all living beings, our devotion is in respecting this connectedness with peace. When all is in balance the tloke sing...
Siteya shouts: This awakening that I speak of has a transformative effect I have personally experienced myself and witnessed through other Xiosian devotees when they seek Her truths, that has profound and lasting positive effects on our community and the realm. I believe this is the remedy to transform the greed and violence that wreaks havoc upon the realm.
Siteya nods to Erasae, signifying she has finished her answer.
Tuathanach shouts thank you Siteya, now Eresae please answer for Laanx
Eresae shouts: The most important thing to remember when worshipping Laanx I feel, it that Laanx is not so simple as the other deities. Laanx is a god of various complexities, a deity that promotes both the stabillity of order, and the changing energy of Chaos. This is something I feel everyone can appreciate as the nature of the world, and even of society is one that has an order to it, and yet one that changes as time goes on. Something I feel they can use, as through change you can make something better than what came before it, or remove that which is no longer needed. While through order you can understand why something is needed, or not needed.
Tuathanach shouts thank you Eresae, now Poezza please answer for Dakkru
Tuathanach looks to Poezza
Eresae smiles at the crowd, seeming to count how many he hopes to convert to Laanx.
Roled jumps up on stage "While LAdy Poezza collects herself, I might add.... The Goddess Dakkru be an enigma"
Siteya glances to Poezza and take advantage of the quiet moment, "I have my library of books available for sale or trade today, feel free to peruse them."
Poezza says: Dakkru is a fierce and fair GOddess that controls the realm of the Death and more importantly the Dark crystal which energy could easily devour us all. She stands between us and certain death. For that I am grateful.
Roled looks relieved and jumps off the stage
Poezza says: She does not look at who you are, whether you do good or evil .. *smiles* and not just does she allow us to return from her realm but also to draw energy from the Dark Crystal for our magic.
Roled whispers to Tuathanach
Roled nods and turns to the audience
Tuathanach whispers to Roled
Roled shouts: I be not a Talad follower, however as a student of oru Dome I know a bit... perhaps. Sir Tua what is the question?
Tuathanach shouts: thank you Poezza, now We have Roled who will do a Talad
Tuathanach shouts: What do you find to be the most important aspects of your god or godesses teachings and how do they affect followers? What are the most exemplary parts of your traditions for citizens?
Roled shouts: Talad and Laanx, well we all know the tale! I think the most important thing be that Talad, after the crashing of the stalactite and the tragedy that befell Laanx, Talad became truely remorseful
Roled shouts: "So the example to us be" Roled looks at Evirea "That e'en gods make mistakes! And it be important to try to fix ones mistakes when ye becomes aware that ye has hurt someone- or a whole group of someones,- unintentionally"
Roled looks at Tua and backs away
Tuathanach shouts: Thanks Roled
Roled bows a bit
Tuathanach shouts: next question is:
Tuathanach shouts: If you were to tell someone of your beliefs: someone who is unaware of them what would you say? How would you explain honouring or worshipping your diety is more important than worshipping the other dieties?
Siteya smiles at Roled and claps with a soft giggle under her breath.
Tuathanach shouts: Siteya please go
Tuathanach steps to side to allow roled a stand
Roled takes out a notebook from his belt and begins scribbling
Siteya says: I believe the answer I preparred was for the question worded a bit differently, I believe all should be able to learn from the pantheon of deities, and so do not force my worship of the Mother on others or find it superior to others worship with that said...
Siteya shouts: I feel this question is very similiar to the first so the answer will, again, resound with the message of peace. When I ask a woman to join the Daughter's of Xiosia it can be an extremely challenging decision to take the vows of a Priestess, that bind her to a devotion that requires compassion and kindness. This can be terryfying to a young neophyte. Why? It is so much easier to act with selfishness and hatred then to have patience and find compassion. It takes real guts to be gentle and kind...
Siteya shouts: In this world many do not honor or value the gifts of the Goddess. We, as Priestesses, must move forward teaching the beauty and power of Her creation in a world that takes such things for granted and does not wish to be reminded they do. So we must live our lives in honor and respect of nature's bounty, without judgement or hate in our hearts, or we are yet another destructive force against nature...against our own Mother. It would be easier to honor Dakkru and carry a weapon then to honor Xiosia and find compassion.
Tuathanach shouts: Thanks again Siteya, now Eresae your turn.
Eresae shouts: Laanx... the Masquerade god works in many layers, in the light the followers work to furtherthe understanding of the world and the order and chaos that drives everything around us, and Laanx helps us in this through wisdom that only they can posses. In the shadows we work to guide the people that have fallen from their paths back to where they belong, or to illuminate new paths that they could not see before, and again Laanx can help in this through being the guiding light that frightens the shadow from thy path. Laanx works not just to help us directly, but to teach us to help ourselves, and for this I feel we should all be greatful!
Tuathanach shouts: Thanks Eresae, Poezza you may now answer.
Poezza shouts: Many Dakkruites, like me, are hunters. Every being we kill travels through the Death Realm and sacrifices a piece of his, her or kras life force. Dakkru uses this life force to keep the energy of the Dark Crystal contained. We have no temples, not in this realm anyway, but from time to time we gather and celebrate the Goddess of Death.
Poezza shouts: Unlike many other religious celebrations we head into the wilderness and make sacrifices to Her, guide apprentices through the Her Realm and teach them how to perform the art of Dark Magic. Without the help of these life forces and the sacrifices we make the power of the Dark Crystal are even for a Goddess as Dakkru overwhelming
Poezza shouts: Everyone needs to do his, her or kras part in containing the Dark Crystal's energy
Tuathanach shouts: thank you Poezza , now Roled please try answer for Talad.
Roled shouts: Well, Sir Tua asked, what part of the worship of Talad might be the most appealing. Tis hard fer me to answer as to what appeals to some... but not all. Certainly the worshippers of Talad speak of kindness and peace. Yet Talad in practice be not willing to give up His Power in order to truely provide fer the one he most terribly hurt- Laanx. Siteya spoke of Power, and I must say there be power with , that be the kindness, and there be power over, that be the Death Curse of Dakkru as Poezza noted, or the discipline required by Laanx. So, well, kindness perhaps must be mitigated by, well, rights? The Rights of us all, as Citizens, to follow the calling of our Hearts? So perhaps if Talad suggested we do that... be kind and follow our hearts, then perhaps Talad would have more followers in our Dome....."
Roled turns bright red and looks downscratching his shin. Then he raises his eyes to the people in the crowd. "At least that be what I think...I wonder if any of ye think that as well?"
Tuathanach shouts: thank you Roled now for final question before we open this up
Tuathanach shouts: How does a follower of your religion balance worship with their duties as a citizen of the dome under the Octarchal degree? How does your religion uphold the rights or does it also limit rights of followers?
Tuathanach shouts: Siteya please go first again
Roled looks at Tua, an his eyes widen, thinking he just answered that... He scribbles notes
Siteya nods and pauses a moment...
Siteya shouts: In the pantheon of the deities, I believe Xiosia is the most liberating. She does not put hindrances or harsh rules on her followers. All of Her lessons are learned through the observance of nature, not in the political arena of the Octarchy. As I have said before, she does not ask us to defend her natural world with violence as one has prescribed in their Xiosia Sermons. I believe this writing to be heretical and a blatant act against Her. Any act against any of Her living beings, is an act against the Mother herself. Who here can say they know for sure they are so righteous and holy, Goddess like, that they can decide who deserves to live or die?
Siteya shouts: Would that not also make you eligible for the same fate? And so on and so on until every living thing is maimed? How does that make any sense? She has given us the greatest gifts of language, reasoning and higher intelligence, not to pick up a sword and destroy her creations, but to communicate, build stronger bonds, and carry a heightened awareness of our connectedness. Even when we seek to eat Her plants and hunt, we are being sustained by Her gifts, and these very acts are spiritual in their nature, and so we show our gratitude with love, not hatred.
Siteya shouts: I would also like to add, within the coven of the Daughters, we practice collective consensus. We actively seek to challenge the power over structure with this template. We believe this is the highest good that can come from our collective devotion to the Goddess, not only does it give each woman a voice to be heard, we transform the power over dynamic to power from within and we use Her gifts of higher intelligence and language to make collective decisions. Every citizen should be able to choose his, her or Kra's own path, as they should also not hinder or breach the chosen path of another.
Tuathanach shouts: thank you Siteya for that detailed answer, now Eresae please answer
Eresae shouts: "The following of Laanx is one of the mind and the heart in my eyes, one where you question the reasons behind the gears that turn our society. Using the laws of the Octarchy you can exercise this and see the wisdom, or lack of wisdom behind the laws. Then you can decide to take actions to change these laws as needed for the future. You can take the guidance you receive from following Laanx, and try to apply it to the Octarchy to spread further knowledge and understanding. The following of Laanx however is strict as well, and even if you hold favor with Laanx at one point for your actions... Laanx will not let that temper judgement should you fall out of favor, showing that a lifetime of good deeds does not neccessarily excuse you from an act of evil, but Laanx also teaches us how an act of evil can be used to guide others to better themselves."
Tuathanach shouts: thanks Eresae , now Poezza please go
Poezza shouts: A true Dakrkuite will not hesitate to take a life, to sacrifice him, her or kraself to serveDakkru. Does that make us evil by definition, or criminals?
Poezza shakes her head
Poezza shouts: "Wars have been won with the help of Dark magic, the sacrifices Dakkruites have made for thegreater good that even extends beyond our realm.
Poezza smiles slightly while staring at her wand for a moment
Poezza shouts: I'd say, with some exceptions we fit in as well as any other
Poezza smiles to herself then looks to Tuathanach and gives him a nod signing him she is done
Tuathanach shouts: Thanks Poezza a consise answer, Roled you may answer now
Roled shouts: Twas what I were trying to say. Rights... the right to be friends with those ye chose, or to adopt one ye loves, like my fine son Sarren, or en to transform power over, as Siteya spoke of Xiosia. So, I do think that because there are several gods and goddesses... well, only the Rights of Indivduals should be honored above the Gods. Fer example, I have been married to my love, Lattia, who be dead now, truely dead, fer some 3 cycles. So now I wish to marry my lover and my friend... Sir T I shall call him. Priestess Siteya will certainly marry us, won't ye? But yet, when I spoke wiht the Guard Mogrrim he did say that no, I must petition the Octarch for a license to make our marriage legal under the Laws as well as the Gods. So I aske ye all as my witnesses... to please sign with me to ask the Octarch to license the marriages of anyone to anyone, as they wish.... with race nor gender being a hindrance for a legal wedding!" Roled begins talking faster and faster, his passion growing. "Will ye help me please? Anyone??? As Sir Eresae says, we can change the laws as needed, can't we?"
Siteya perks up at the mention of her name, "I certainly would wed you to whomever you love, you have my full support."
Tuathanach looks at Roled "you are ment to answer for Talad worship"
<<Client crashed so gap (about 10 min) in log, apologies>>
Eresae sighs "So... do any of you have any further questions for us on our religions?"
Siteya looks around the crowd for any raised hands.
Orivan raises and nods to Eresae, quite agitated.
Orivan says: I do!
Tuathanach looks to Orivan "please ask sir"
Orivan says: Why is it that all of you "learned" scholars fail to represent the gods as anything else but benevolent, helpful entities?
Roled almost grins then looks down.
Orivan says: I mean. You make it sound like the gods are a merry band of friends that like to hug all of their followers.
Siteya says: Because that is what my Mother Goddess teaches me, "The Way of Peace" is one of the most important doctrines in the library
Orivan laughs heartily.
Tuathanach says: So sir what you want are the negative aspects of each god?
Orivan says: A book written by mortals, my dear.
Orivan looks at Xiosia.
Tuathanach bangs his hammer on the stand
Eresae narrows his eyes on Orivan "Clearly you missed my point in the second question. Merely because you have pleased Laanx at one point, does not mean you will not be punished at a later date for another action."
Orivan says: Pleasing Laanx? Do you think us mortals can truly please a god?
Tuathanach says: Sir what do you see as the negative aspects of the gods or godesses?
Orivan shakes his head "Morever, we should fear the gods. We can only hope to devote all our lives of gaining the attention of any god to protect us from the dark. And if we fail at that, our lives will be full of suffering and pain."
Orivan says: The gods themselves do not care about most of us.
Siteya says: I work to find balance and peace through others, if they are her children and content, I do believe she is also. She has shown me through her gifts and her acts that my actions, our actions as devotees are worthy, no wrath has befallen me for my worship and interpretations
Orivan says: Is the absence of wrath proof of benevolence?
Siteya says: but she has performed her miracles in the presence of many
Siteya says: many that stand here today
Evirea squirms uncomfortably at Orivan's commentary. She lets out a heavy, longsuffering sigh, and then stands to her feet. "Sir."
Eresae smiles and claps his hands "You're right... in a sense... but there have been instances where a person has pleased Laanx... there is even a recorded instance, but even then, Laanx told them it may be a fleeting temporary thing... and would not excuse future actions."
Orivan looks at Siteya, then waits for Evirea to speak.
Siteya looks relieved and teary eyed at Evirea
Tuathanach shouts: order, one question at a time (Tua bangs his hammer on a metal plate fixed to stand to gain attention]
Orivan says: And yet again that Klyros over there would certainly agree Laanx is quite happily smiting her kind.
Evirea holds up her hand to Tuathanach. "I have something that can address one of Orivan's remarks."
Evirea shrugs at Orivan. "One of my kind came traipsing through a magical doorway, got confronted with a giant angry powerful entity who asked it to bow, and he refused. Laanx is petty, the man was stupid. So it goes. No scales off my back."
Tuathanach says: Right Evirea make your point
Evirea spreads her hands to Orivan. "You stated that the gods do not care about us, correct? That we shouldspend our lives just trying to get their attention. That is your stand, right? I want to be sure."
Tuathanach says: careful please not be offensive
Evirea grimaces a little at Tuathanach. "...Right. Sorry."
Eresae smiles at Evirea's statement, seeming unoffended in the slightest.
Tuathanach looks around "for other audience members wishing to speak"
Orivan nods.
Siteya holds a saddened frown, wringing her hands.
Evirea shakes her head. "You're wrong, sir. I'm sorry to say. I can testify, and I can gather many people who witnessed a miracle carried out by Xiosia. I've never been a believer in any deity. Still I am not. Yet when I confronted Xiosia in her garden, she healed my husband of a Wasting illness. There was no worship. There was no penance. I outright yelled at her, and she blessed me." She shrugs. "My stance? The gods are four beings with lots of power, but a mind not unlike yours or mine. Capable of mistakes, perhaps, but also just four amidst thousands and hundreds of thousands. Perhaps they don't intervene every day not because they don't wish to - perhaps they merely can't."
Orivan laughs. "Xiosia?"
Orivan says: I would hesitate to truly call her a god.
Tuathanach says: Ok I have a question How do you each deal with various factions within the worship of yourdiety
Orivan says: If I may. An entitiy that has been around for a few years now.
Orivan says: Dropped a few presents now and then.
Orivan says: Not exactly godly, wouldn't you agree?
Orivan says: The only true gods are Laanx, Talad and Dakkru.
Tuathanach bankgs his hammer "silence please sir, you had your chance"
Evirea shrugs. "Perhaps not, but then I would press you to ask about the people that Talad has helped over the cycles. Or...well, I have never heard of Laanx helping anyone, but I've seen her. Him. It, get pissy about..."
Evirea trails off, and looks towards Tuathanach, grimacing again. She takes a seat.
Siteya sighs and shakes her head, "A few years? really?" she mutters to hersel and turns to Tuathanach.
Orivan says: A god has to wield godly power.
Tuathanach says: Siteya can you answer my question, I know within xiosian worship there is at least 2 main fasctions
Tuathanach says: first being peaceful the second being more based on the aspect of fertility
Siteya says: I am sorry Tuathanach I did not hear the question, can you please repeat?
Roled mutters "Xiosia be a true Goddess. I have seen Her."
Orivan says: And what is the nature of being a goddess?
Tuathanach says: How do you deal with various factions within the worship of your diety
Orivan says: Miraculous appearances?
Eresae nods "The worship of Laanx has many forms... and even branches withing the accepted official temple that have different duties and methods. We serve the same deity... and we will try to help each other in an attempt to gain the blessings of Laanx... and sometimes even to enact wrath upon one who has displeased Laanx... Laanx can be benevolent, and vengeful... sometimes even with the same action."
Tuathanach says: I will come back to you in a moment Eresae, but I would like to hear Siteya's answer.
Orivan takes a seat again and lets the others answer their questions.
Roled says "Um Sorry to interrupt, Sir Tua, but I have to leave... " Roled looks at the questioner in the audience. "Sir, um, Sir, the nature of being a Goddess is I suppose having powers and abilities and insights well beyond mortals, and then perhaps using those powers and abilities for some... some ethical construct, I suppose..."
Siteya says: The factions within my coven are mostly in service to the community, through good deeds also inrituals that show our gratitude and in blessing the land. We primarily uphold the balance of nature through our worship.
Siteya says: There is much need in a world that attends to violence so regularly
Tuathanach says: ok Roled
Evirea flexes her fingers stiffly at Siteya's remarks.
Roled says: Fer give me please, I be... called elsewhere
Tuathanach says: but Siteya, what about those who worship Xiosia more on the aspect of fertility, as she islife bringer. I know most follow your peaceful path
Roled bows and leaves, wiping at his eyes
Orivan bows to Roled.
Siteya fertility is the greatest blessing of Xiosia, that is why the harvest is so important to our worship.
Orivan walks up to the pedestal and takes his place.
Tuathanach smiles "thank you Siteya"
Orivan says: What about the aspect of the hunt to Xiosia worship? The killing of prey?
Orivan glances sideways at Siteya.
Siteya says: I did speak to that earlier
Orivan says: Do you practice it within your sect?
Tuathanach says: Eresae Laanx has many factions
Siteya says: it is all in the book of DOX if you read
Tuathanach looks at Orivan "sir pleasereturn to your seat in the audience"
Orivan says: Is this not an open discussion, sir?
Orivan says: I thought we were here to discuss about the gods.
Tuathanach says: a controlled discussion
Orivan nods "And I waited for Siteya to finish her question."
Orivan says: Should we not clarify anything else that might arise regarding that question before moving on?
Tuathanach says: Eresae how do you feel about those that worship what laanx was, before being scared by Talad. When she was a beautiful godess much like us Lemur. Compared to the now more masked god he is seen as in orthodox worship.
Siteya says: Sir, I am quite sure that your acts to bully me about topics I have already discussed are rather disruptive, hunting is not consider an act of violence yet an act of sustainence"
Alvero raises his right hand, waving it with excitement .
Orivan says: Thank you for your answer, Siteya. I must have misheard your previous clarification.
Orivan falls silent and lets Eresae speak.
Eresae says: I do not feel they are wrong to worship Laanx as she was, for there is no doubt in my mind thata part of that Laanx still exists.
Siteya sighs with relief and holds a forced smile, focusing on Eresaes words.
Eresae says: I do believe that it should go along side the worship of Laanx as he is now though,
Eresae says: As a reminder of how the god and the religion has changed.
Eresae says: As a reminder that what we concider to please the god now, may not please the god in the future... and that we should be willing to change for Laanx if it is required to keep their blessings.
Orivan nods in agreement.
Tuathanach says: thank you eresae anyone else have questions
Orivan says: Might I raise a point?
Alvero raises his right hand, waving it with excitement .
Tuathanach says: Alvero please ask
Tuathanach turns to Orivan "maybe once you return to audience"
Alvero smiles brightly as he stands up, taking a bowing position as he speak, "How would you explain the concept of souls, how they are created and what are...and what they do."
Orivan says: Perhaps we should rather ask ourselves how we explain bodies.
Orivan says: For souls are something far more natural.
Tuathanach nods "good question, Siteya do you wish to answer"
Orivan focusses on Alvero "Why do our souls have bodies?"
Siteya says: the essence of all living things is a matter of great mystery, I believe it is Xiosias essencethat runs through us all and so returns to her when we leave and finds its way back with rebirth
Siteya says: thus fertility being so important as it spawns theessence in its very act
Orivan laughs.
Evirea gives Orivan a disapproving look at the laughter.
Alvero nods, "Does the other representatives have other opinions?"
Evirea says: Hey now. I don't think we need to mock someone else's view on it. If you disagree, debate it. That's what we're here for.
Tuathanach says: Eresae what do you have to say about Alvero's question on souls
Orivan says: Perhaps our souls are enslaved in our bodies to serve the gods till true death releases us fromour servitude?
Orivan says: To join the gods as souls and live among them?
Eresae says: I do in fact have another opinion... that the soul is a manifestation of magic, and energy. Itis the force of life that changes as we change. If it were so simple as a manifestation of Xiosia, then by all means explain the kran? Or how the soul comes with us to the death realm?
Orivan nods in agreement with Eresae.
Orivan says: Talad created the Kran to serve him.
Tuathanach bangs his hammer looking at orivan "sir you are not part of the panel soo please allow the panelto speak"
Orivan says: Just as Laanx created the Lemurs to do the same.
Orivan says: Sir then make me part of this panel. A speaker is missing, no?
Donari sighs, obviously annoyed by the interference.
Tuathanach looks at Orivan and points to where he was previously seated
Eresae looks around "There are actually two missing... and I do not see how it can hurt to have another opinion?"
Orivan points at where he is standing.
Orivan says: Only Laanx may command me, sir.
Tuathanach says: two laanxists and one xiosian, no. one of each at most
Siteya starts packing up her books, shaking her head, she looks up at Tuathanach, "I must be going, I am very honored to be a part of any panel you are hosting in the future, much gratitude."
Orivan says: You act as if each follower of a god has the same opinion.
Orivan says: And clearly miss the most important facets that way.
Orivan waves to Siteya "Farewell priestess!"
Orivan says: Be fertile!
Tuathanach shouts: I guess we are at an end Thank you to all panelists
Tuathanach says: People are free to stay and discuss
Tuathanach says: but formal part is over
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And this is a pic of the event setting :
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah142/gmZunna/God_playerevent_zpsr6mln5ym.jpg)
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I have things to say... but no time yet irl to compose my post.
Let me remind everyone however that this event was a PLAYER ORGANIZED and PLAYER LED event, NOT a GM Event. As always I as a player only, thank the GMs for helping with with setting up the site.
I want to make it clear that the GMS were NOT in charge of this event.
RR
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And this is a pic of the event setting :
http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah142/gmZunna/God_playerevent_zpsr6mln5ym.jpg (http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah142/gmZunna/God_playerevent_zpsr6mln5ym.jpg)
Didn't work as IMG for me, because PhotoBucket wants to wrap it in an advertizing website.
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Let me remind everyone however that this event was a PLAYER ORGANIZED and PLAYER LED event, NOT a GM Event. As always I as a player only, thank the GMs for helping with with setting up the site.
I want to make it clear that the GMS were NOT in charge of this event.
RR
I don't think there is any doubt on the nature of the event, Cf the title of this post, the facebook one, or even the name of the pic i posted.
Here is a link LigH that hopefully works better :
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1444093085902336&set=p.1444093085902336&type=1&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1444093085902336&set=p.1444093085902336&type=1&theater)
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I want to make it clear that the GMS were NOT in charge of this event.
Let me remind the GM team is always in charge to supervise any event, whether it's player driven or not. It's their responsibility and the players may not even notice their presence and they don't even need to bother about.
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The 10min break in Tua's log also happen to be the part where Roled went from IC'ly representing the god Talad to OOC'ly bashing the dev Talad. At this point for me the event was over and I am very disappointed that one of the rare cases that I DO make it to an event was ruined like this.
I attempted to tell Roled IC'ly that he was wrong and I told him in groupchat, but why should I break character (Poezza would be the last to lecture one about laws) just so he can stir up players against a person who is not even there. So I left the event.
There is no law, no religion and no culture against same sexe marriage in game, as a SoX you should know better than that. Can we please leave the personal grudges over buttons our characters have no awareness of out of the game? I'd like to enjoy the little time and occasions I have for RP and not have to deal with all this negativity and real world issues...
My apologies to all those who wanted to hear more about Dakkru, I was happily surprised to see that much interest in the Goddess of Death. Anyone who is interested to hear more, feel free to send me a /tell in game.
Roled, I sincerely hope you think about your actions and how they impact other players.
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Was asked for logs, so here they are..
(22:11:48) Tuathanach shouts: Thanks Poezza a consise answer, Roled you may answer now
(22:12:02) Roled shouts: Twas what I were trying to say. Rights... the right to be friends with those ye chose, or to adopt one ye loves, like my fine son Sarren, or en to transform power over, as Siteya spoke of Xiosia. So, I do think that because there are several gods and goddesses... well, only the Rights of Indivduals should be honored above the Gods. Fer example, I have been married to my love, Lattia, who be dead now, truely dead, fer some 3 cycles. So now I wish to marry my lover and my friend... Sir T I shall call him. Priestess Siteya will certainly marry us, won't ye? But yet, when I spoke wiht the Guard Mogrrim he did say that no, I must petition the Octarch for a license to make our marriage legal under the Laws as well as the Gods. So I aske ye all as my witnesses... to please sign with me to ask the Octarch to license the marriages of anyone to anyone, as they wish.... with race nor gender being a hindrance for a legal wedding!" Roled begins talking faster and faster, his passion growing. "Will ye help me please? Anyone??? As Sir Eresae says, we can change the laws as needed, can't we?"
(22:12:49) Jagzer does not seem to notice or care that something has been taken off of his useless side as the elf wanders by still focused on the main stage slightly amused by the whole event
(22:13:27) Orivan thinks about what Roled is saying.
(22:13:38) Siteya perks up at the mention of her name, "I certainly would wed you to whomever you love, you have my full support."
(22:14:04) Tuathanach looks at Roled "you are ment to answer for Talad worship"
(22:14:16) Sulaika watches Sarren closely, her eyes sharpening frowning as he bumps his shoulder into Jagzer's, seeming trained, wondering if she seen it right, her mouth dropping, it is not seen of course of concern or something else.
(22:14:38) Sulaika says: [if caused*]
(22:14:51) Roled turns red "Aye sir Tua but apparently Talad does not believe one like me should marry!"
(22:15:05) Evirea breathes out softly at Roled's remark, watching him quietly. For the most part the klyra seems confused, and she says nothing still.
(22:15:19) Roled shouts: "How can I speak fer Talad on this point when I do not believe it!?"
(22:15:38) Sarren turns around slightly to look to the stage as he is mentioned smiling to his father
(22:16:14) Siteya shakes her head and lowers it with an awkward frown replacing her comfortble smile.
(22:16:21) Jagzer smiles knowingly and nods approvingly to Roled but remains silent
(22:16:25) Roled shouts: "How can I legally show my love if I canna have this license because it be not writ into the Octachs LAw???
(22:18:30) Poezza says: Tabei, what law?
(22:18:41) Sulaika just keeps herself quiet, turning again with Sarren, then leaning closer to whisper to him
(22:18:48) Evirea looks relieved as Poezza voices what she's been thinking.
(22:19:18) Poezza says: Please show it to me, cause I have never ever read anything in the decree about marriage
(22:19:34) Roled says: Lady Poezza , I have read and re-red the Octarch's Decree. There are no rights to marriage....
(22:19:59) Roled says: There is a law against racism- in that our races can marry whom they wilt
(22:20:07) Siteya lifts her teary eyes, listening to the conversation carefully.
(22:20:24) Roled says: but no way fer kra to wed within the law, fer example
(22:20:45) Poezza says: Love has nothing to do with law tabei
(22:20:46) Roled says: And no way fer men to marry each other, or women each other, within the law
(22:21:20) Evirea says: If the law mentions nothing whatsoever about marriage why are you assuming men cannot marry men.
(22:21:30) Roled says: But we be fashioned by the Gods! And the Gods , at least Talad and Xiosia, claim that love is the basis of oru land, and therefore of our laws
(22:21:36) Eresae chews on his bottom lip as he looks down at his podium.
(22:21:52) Poezza says: [sorry, but this is totally ooc.]
(22:21:57) Poezza says: [I am done]
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This post will be long. If you want to read it and follow the substantiated debate, thanks. If you don't want to read it all, here are the synthesized conclusions I am asserting at this point.
First however, I must acknowledge that we are all volunteers in this game. Zunna is a volunteer. I am a volunteer. Zunna knows I have thanked him several times for assistance in the events I have organized for the player's. Ironically I had thanked Zunna for helping with setting up the stage and getting books for the debate. That is real, was heartfelt then and despite my anger at subsequent treatment, is still heartfelt. And I also acknowledge that people make mistakes. In this case I feel Zunna and Eonwind are making mistakes. I am pretty sure they think I am. That is also debatable.
This is why I offer this post as my experience of and thoughts about the discussions during and surrounding Speak With the God/dess.
SUMMARY of my position, if you don't want to read the substantiated thesis, antithesis and synthesis.
1) RR was totally in character with everything he said in main in that RR believes it.
2) RR was within his rights to debate his opinion in character.
3) RR's player was within his rights to challenge the GM for interference in a player led event.
4) Zunna overstepped his job in attempting to suppress RR's players DEBATE. Just because Zunna doesn't think there is a debate is irrelevant. Zunna can think what he wants. The fact is that there clearly IS a debate BOTH in IC ways AND in OOC ways. Saying there is no debate is not only specious, it is inaccurate.
5) GMs do not have the authority to police character's “manners.” If that were true then no characters could Icly play BF- the most unmannerly of religions, nor could stonehammers drink to excess, nor could any fistfight happen, nor any poisonings etc. That would just be unmannerly....
6) Eonwind is wrong in his assumption that GMs have the “right” to supervise game play to the point of policing opinion and role play character choices.
7) The unwarranted intervention of Zunna took Roled away from the in character debate, so I ended up not actually being able to Icly participate in the event because of Zunna's actions.
8 ) There is no right to marriage equity in the Octarchal Degree, so no right is enforceable because of the decree's silence icly. [See discussion of unwritten rights below]
9) There is legal substantiation from real life social governance history, which was used to inform the Octarchal Decree, that citizens have the right to petition and debate and insist upon redress of philosophic wrongs done against their civil rights.
10) The easiest answers are: make the marriage button available to all genders and races in settings OOC AND insert language attesting to full citizens right in the Octarchal Decree and not merely in a book of opinions about the decree.
THE SUBSTANCE: A considered rebuttal
Poezza, I am sorry you believed RR was ooc. I clearly do not believe RR was ooc nor was RR "bashing" the developer Talad. It is clear from the logs that RR was speaking about the God Talad. RR made the point that the god Talad did grievous wrong to Laanx and instead of "fixing" the wrong, chose to allow Laanx's suffering to continue. The God Talad did not give up his own power to redress the injury done. RR then made the point that the god Talad, as represented by his followers, supposedly believes in kindness and compassion and yet allow great wrongs to continue. Roled then reasserted that he didn't believe in the Taladian faith because of the disconnection between asserted tenets and actual rights.
A) The point being, this is TOTALLY within character for RR to say that. As you see in the logs, just because YOU didn't find it understandable [and you were the one who went OOC to say so btw in main albeit in [ ] which doesn't really bother me] and then RR asked you to ask him Icly which you did, which RR then answered ICly] does not mean that Roled in character doesn't believe this disconnect to be true. Roled did not talk about the infamous button Icly ever!
B) Eonwind- you are attempting to use what Alan Badieu terms an arguement of "governmentality" [look it up if you don't understand this term] when you say the GMS are I want to make it clear that the GMS were NOT in charge of this event.
Let me remind the GM team is always in charge to supervise any event, whether it's player driven or not. It's their responsibility and the players may not even notice their presence and they don't even need to bother about.
1) “Governmentality” is the overstepping of assumed authority, typically committed by petty bureaucrats, trying to use intimidation and reference to ungranted power over, in an attempt to deny citizen's rights, such as the right to free speech. This is exactly what Zunna did to RR- this is exactly why RR'a player is in the process of FORMALLY PETITIONING the DEVELOPER TALAD for redress. Zunna nor any GM has the right to be the “thought police” ICly. RR used no vulgarity, used no threats, but Zunna decided that RR's "manners" were enough to issue and OOC warning. This is false logic and sloppy thinking. Disagreements spoken/ even argued passionately are not a realm of intervention by a GM who was not even in charge of the event IN ANY WAY. Eonwind, maybe its a European thing, I don't know, but in the USA the right to free speech is an unalienable right, written into law in the Constitution. So Eonwind you are wrong in conflating “Supervision” with “opinions held and voiced.” This principle goes back in law to the 12 Tablets of the Roman Empire.
2) btw- in the tablets there is apparently a similar discussion – A DEBATE- over who holds actual rights and who oversteps authority because they think they can. I refer you to for an interesting discussion. One relevant portion is:
1. “The Twelve Tables came about as a result of the long social struggle between patricians and plebeians. … In the context of this unequal status, plebeians would take action to secure concessions for themselves... One of the most important concessions won in this class struggle was the establishment of the Twelve Tables, establishing basic procedural rights for all Roman citizens...” http://www.crystalinks.com/romelaw.html. Web. Retrieved 11 May 2015.
2.) “Patricians long opposed this request, but around 451 BC, the first decemviri (decemvirate - board of "Ten Men") was appointed to draw up the first ten tables... The first decemvirate completed the first ten codes in 450 BC. Here is how Livy describes their creation,
'...every citizen should quietly consider each point, then talk it over with his friends, and, finally, bring forward for public discussion any additions or subtractions which seemed desirable." (cf. Liv. III 34) '”
The point being the laws, even the Octarchal Decree, are based on assumptions. From time to time, various societies have found it necessary and useful to define in writing those assumptions. Roled is not only acting in character, following the suggestion of Livy to consider talk with friends, and (my italics now): “bring forward for public discussion any additions or subtractions which seemed desirable.”
3) Let me give an example, which is exemplary because some parts of the Octarchal Decree itself contains vestiges of a reference to constitutionally written underlying assumptions found of the rule of law. In the USA there is written in the Constitution, in Amendment 9 “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.” - http://constitution.findlaw.com/amendments.html#f6 Web. Retrieved 11 May 2015. AND YET the US found it necessary to OVERTLY STATE that people of color in this case, are citizens and are afforded the full rights of citizenship in Amendment 14, “Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws” -
4) AND Amendment #15 “Section. 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.” http://constitution.findlaw.com/amendments.html#f6 Web. Retrieved 11 May 2015.
5) Also interestingly, women were assumed not to have the voting rights of citizens in the USA until yet another Constitutional Amendment, #19 in 1920, less than 100 years ago. There are several states of the USA who have not yet ratified the 19th Amendment, but it has been legally certified as part of the explict law and rights in the USA. “The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.” http://constitution.findlaw.com/amendments.html#f6
Why would the lawmakers of the land find it necessary to add specific language? BECAUSE the assumption that the right exists for citizens AND the actuality that the right does not exist equitably was/is the REALITY. This is a parallel to the situation that PlaneShift finds itself in on the issue of equity in marriage rights.
This is the stream of unspoken rl background that informs the IC lives of characters.
Sometimes it is necessary to have specific language to guarantee rights so that “governmentality” and “thought policing” do not exist unchecked, either in the real world or in the laws of the fantasy world of Yliakum.
Zunna never actually asked RR's player why RR believes he is acting Icly. [Instead Zunna in a massive display of Godmodding, told Roled what he thinks Roled thinks in character. So disappointing from so many standpoints! Check the log and you will see where the GM overstepped his bounds.] So I will tell you: RR is in character a law abiding person. He sees himself as heroic, a defender of those who are too weak to defend themselves. He believes harm is being done to same gendered people FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT ICLY. The Decree does not speak to marriage. Now I know some have said books are being worked on to clarify but at this moment such books are not in game therefore are not yet to be seen as part of the legal code. So, since the Decree does not speak to marriage, Roled's logic is to do exactly what Officer Mogrrim said he should do- petition the Octarch for redress of this exclusion. That is what RR's character is doing in a long running role play sequence, of which the Speak With the God/dess debate was only one part.
What RR's player is doing OOC, is also formally petitioning for redress of unjustified GM interference, of unwarranted attempts at being the thought police, and what Eonwind is attempting to do, by trying to bully RR's player into not fighting for the equal rights of citizen/ players to free speech both icly in the game and OOCly concerning the button.
The easiest answers are: make the marriage button available to all genders and races in settings OOC AND insert language attesting to full citizens right in the Octarchal Decree and not merely in a book of opinions about the decree.
I have more to say on all these matters, of course. And I assume more debate is warranted.
So, in conclusion.
RR was totally in character with everything he said in main in that RR believes it.
RR was within his rights to debate his opinion in character.
RR's player was within his rights to challenge the GM for interference in a player led event.
Zunna overstepped his job in attempting to suppress RR's players DEBATE. Just because Zunna doesn't think there is a debate is irrelevant. Zunna can think what he wants. The fact is that there clearly IS a debate BOTH in IC ways AND in OOC ways. Saying there is no debate is not only specious, it is inaccurate.
GMs do not have the authority to police character's “manners.” If that were true then no characters could Icly play BF- the most unmannerly of religions, nor could stonehammers drink to excess, nor could any fistfight happen, nor any poisonings etc. That would just be unmannerly....
Eonwind is wrong in his assumption that GMs have the “right” to supervise game play to the point of policing opinion and role play character choices.
The unwarranted intervention of Zunna took Roled away from the in character debate, so I ended up not actually being able to Icly participate in the event because of Zunna's actions.
There is no right to marriage equity in the Octarchal Degree, so no right is enforceable because of the decree's silence icly. [See discussion of unwritten rights below]
There is legal substantiation from real life social governance history, which was used to inform the Octarchal Decree, that citizens have the right to petition and debate and insist upon redress of philosophic wrongs done against their civil rights.
The easiest answers are: make the marriage button available to all genders and races in settings OOC AND insert language attesting to full citizens right in the Octarchal Decree and not merely in a book of opinions about the decre
Fighting for one's rights as citizens in any organized social forum, be it virtual or real life, is often contentious historically. Many people of color in the USA were lynched doing just that. Many women were jailed, force fed, tortured, raped and killed for doing just that. Many people of various faiths, such as Jewish people, were brutalized for doing just that. Many self identified gay women and men were beaten, shamed, and maimed during the Stonehead Rebellion and continue to be, even to the point of death by stoning, in some countries in our world. Many children, like Malala Yousafzai, have been shot and tortured for insisting upon their rights. It sometimes takes time. It sometimes takes perseverance of the few to preserve the rights of the many.
Working for a more equal, just and inclusive world in all manifestations of world sometimes takes ruffling the feathers, breaking down the concrete walls, and standing against the Wind.
AND I assume this post itself might spark more debate. Which is real.
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When did this stop being a game and became real? ::|
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From my experiences with Roled and being at the event, I do not believe that Roled was OOC, his character and his personal beliefs are the same in this situation, this is nothing new to the game, so many characters and their players carry similar beliefs. Roled was being Roled, what I will say is that he did want to bring up the question of marriage and legality on a platform of religion, I do believe he had planned to wait for the Q & A to do so, but as a host of the event he had to take the place of the Talad representative that was a no show, this not only through a wrench in his wanting to discuss marriage in the context of religion, but also put him in a compromised position to have to answer a question about Talad(ian) beliefs, which instead of faking it, in classic Roled fashion, he rallied with great passion. His monologue on marriage from a Talad perspective, did confuse folks at the event and feel off topic but not OOC. Also he did not rant against Talad the Dev of the game but Talad the God and religion. Unfortunately the event did end in a train wreck, but it was not because Roled was OOC.
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I'm speaking strictly as a player, so don't go misconstruing this as some kind of prospects vs gms kind of thing. The last time I commented on something like this, people got their panties in a twist and I ended up having some 'splainin to do.... ;D *shakes fist*
The 10min break in Tua's log also happen to be the part where Roled went from IC'ly representing the god Talad to OOC'ly bashing the dev Talad. At this point for me the event was over and I am very disappointed that one of the rare cases that I DO make it to an event was ruined like this.
I wasn't there, but looking at the logs, it does not look like he went OOC if you read his posts literally and do not assign any additional assumptions to what he wrote. If you assume that he the player was talking about Talad the person then yes, it might look that way, but one has to be careful with making such assumptions and accidentally tainting the meaning of what was written.
I think challenging what he was saying in an in-character way was a good move on the part of those who did. After all, isn't that what a debate is? From what logs were posted though, it looks like challenge did not have a chance to develop. Too bad.
So why did Roled suddenly leave the RP? He was the one who started this event, wasn't he? His post implies that he was prevented from continuing on with his IC tirade. Is it now a crime for a character to complain about stuff?
Again, I wasn't there, so I'm just asking.
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Here's the missing section of the event:
(15:13:29) Tuathanach looks at Roled "you are ment to answer for Talad worship"
(15:13:38) [Channel] [1: gossip] Ecthion: Do lawyers ever get permission?!
(15:13:41) Sulaika watches Sarren closely, her eyes sharpening frowning as he bumps his shoulder into Jagzer's, seeming trained, wondering if she seen it right, her mouth dropping, it is not seen of course of concern or something else.
(15:13:48) [Channel] [1: gossip] Celroc: I can't stay real long. I have a job interview in a little bit
(15:14:02) Sulaika says: [if caused*]
(15:14:15) Roled turns red "Aye sir Tua but apparently Talad does not believe one like me should marry!"
(15:14:29) Evirea breathes out softly at Roled's remark, watching him quietly. For the most part the klyra seems confused, and she says nothing still.
(15:14:43) Roled shouts: "How can I speak fer Talad on this point when I do not believe it!?"
(15:15:02) Sarren turns around slightly to look to the stage as he is mentioned smiling to his father
(15:15:09) [Channel] [1: gossip] Rykia: Good luck, Celroc!
(15:15:13) [Channel] [1: gossip] Celroc: Thank you!
(15:15:20) [Channel] [1: gossip] Ecthion: oooh, nice! Good luck!
(15:15:31) [Channel] [1: gossip] Celroc: Thank you!
(15:15:34) [Channel] [1: gossip] Ecthion: If you need a reference, send 'em my way
(15:15:38) Siteya shakes her head and lowers it with an awkward frown replacing her comfortble smile.
(15:15:45) [Channel] [1: gossip] Ecthion: I'll tell 'em your the fuzziest menki that ever walked the Dome.
(15:15:45) Jagzer smiles knowingly and nods approvingly to Roled but remains silent
(15:15:50) Roled shouts: "How can I legally show my love if I canna have this license because it be not writ into the Octachs LAw???
(15:15:50) [Channel] [1: gossip] Evirea: "Celroc's a pretty cool cat. No really. A cat. Stop looking at me like that."
(15:15:56) [Channel] [1: gossip] Ecthion: XD
(15:16:02) [Channel] [1: gossip] Celroc makes note to put a Mr. Felagund on his reference list.
(15:16:12) [Channel] [1: gossip] Celroc: XD Thanks Evirea, can I use you as a reference too?
(15:16:42) [Channel] [1: gossip] Evirea: Go for it.
(15:17:38) [Channel] [1: gossip] Jagzer looks at Evirea intently with *Crazy Eyes*
(15:17:43) [Channel] [1: gossip] Celroc: Be sure to mention my DJ skills you guys! :P
(15:17:54) Poezza says: Tabei, what law?
(15:17:54) [Channel] [1: gossip] Evirea is far too used to people looking at her this way to be bothered.
(15:18:05) Sulaika just keeps herself quiet, turning again with Sarren, then leaning closer to whisper to him
(15:18:12) Evirea looks relieved as Poezza voices what she's been thinking.
(15:18:21) [Channel] [1: gossip] Celroc: I'd be careful about oogling the Evirea, Jagzer. Chays might see.
(15:18:41) [Channel] [1: gossip] Ihrenir: wait how did i help excactly? :-D
(15:18:42) Poezza says: Please show it to me, cause I have never ever read anything in the decree about marriage
(15:18:58) Roled says: Lady Poezza , I have read and re-red the Octarch's Decree. There are no rights to marriage....
(15:19:20) [Channel] [1: gossip] Jagzer: oogling Evirea? though she is pretty Kryla, there be another that has my rapt attention :P
(15:19:23) Roled says: There is a law against racism- in that our races can marry whom they wilt
(15:19:31) Siteya lifts her teary eyes, listening to the conversation carefully.
(15:19:48) Roled says: but no way fer kra to wed within the law, fer example
(15:20:00) [Channel] [1: gossip] Ecthion: Ihrenir, I was saying thanks for the wish of luck with finals
(15:20:09) Poezza says: Love has nothing to do with law tabei
(15:20:10) Roled says: And no way fer men to marry each other, or women each other, within the law
(15:20:17) [Channel] [1: gossip] Evirea: Evirea does get oggled a lot. She doesn't know why though. She just thinks she often has something on her face.
(15:20:37) [Channel] [1: gossip] Damola: Hi.
(15:20:45) [Channel] [1: gossip] Ihrenir: hi
(15:20:45) Evirea says: If the law mentions nothing whatsoever about marriage why are you assuming men cannot marry men.
(15:20:51) [Channel] [1: gossip] Sarren: low
(15:20:54) Roled says: But we be fashioned by the Gods! And the Gods , at least Talad and Xiosia, claim that love is the basis of oru land, and therefore of our laws
(15:20:55) [Channel] [1: gossip] Celroc: Maybe it's that nice warm klyran smile ;-)
(15:21:00) Eresae chews on his bottom lip as he looks down at his podium.
(15:21:00) [Channel] [1: gossip] Ecthion: LOL
(15:21:12) [Channel] [1: gossip] Ihrenir: also anyone who can give couple tefu hides?
(15:21:16) Poezza says: [sorry, but this is totally ooc.]
(15:21:21) Poezza says: [I am done]
(15:21:51) Roled stands , trembling, but stands still
(15:22:03) Orivan says: [Arrrgh. I crashed. Can anyone get me up to date?]
(15:22:05) >Orivan Katole takes a seat by Small Table.
(15:22:08) >Orivan Katole stands up.
(15:22:12) >Orivan Katole takes a seat by Small Table.
(15:22:26) Jagzer sighs and shrugs his shoulder turning to leave
(15:23:13) Evirea says to Roled, "I think this is a misunderstanding, Roled. Perhaps best discussed after this event in a more intimate setting. For now, we should commence with the discussion."
(15:23:18) Cheris nibbles on her pie
(15:23:22) Roled says: [and just for the record, I asked Wulfar, he agreed to speak, he didn't show, so I as organizer of the event
(15:23:30) >Orivan Katole stands up.
(15:23:32) >Orivan Katole takes a seat by Between the Worlds.
(15:23:37) Orivan says: [What happened? :D]
(15:24:09) Roled says: [as organizer of the event I stepped in. RR was not planing to speak at all. Just to let you know Zunna. This is not ooc behavior]
(15:24:21) Siteya says: I have always governed myself by my own beliefs, not the Octarchy, but I do believe that if one should marry, they should be able to choose whom so they wish, with all the crime in this realm, how can the act of legalizing the love of two, be a concern of the Octarchy? Are we not capable of governing ourselves in the matters of love?
(15:24:26) Orivan says: [Urm. What's going on?!]
(15:24:27) Sulaika thinks hard,seeing Jagzer leaving, gazing to Sarren concern mirroring her face, "Sarren....you are tired we should get you to a room where you can rest."
(15:24:30) >Orivan Katole stands up.
(15:24:35) >Orivan Katole takes a seat by Between the Worlds.
(15:24:43) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: It is ooc because all you said is totaly ooc
(15:24:47) >Cheris Fowann stands up.
(15:24:49) Sarren nods to Sulaika and turns away from the crowd now
(15:24:54) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: IF you care RR is being warned of OOC behavoir for trying to discuss the inability of men tomarry in an IC context
(15:24:59) >Cheris Fowann picked up a Pie
(15:25:05) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: and you caled out Talad and we all know you weren't speaking of the god
(15:25:08) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: IF you care about Roled please let the GMS know
(15:25:10) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: don't play innocent :p
(15:25:18) [Channel] [1: gossip] Poezza: shut up roled
(15:25:18) >Orivan Katole stands up.
(15:25:25) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: Zunna I am not playing innocent
(15:25:29) Cheris slips away
(15:25:29) Orivan says: [Nothing OOC happened here as far as I see.]
(15:25:33) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: Saying marraidge between man/man or woman/woman isn't allowed is ooc
(15:25:35) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: IT IS ALLOWED
(15:25:45) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: there is no debate
(15:25:50) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: ffs stop making one there isn't any
(15:25:50) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: I called out the GOD TALADs following of kindness and peace and asked the questions what is kind about this?
(15:25:59) >Alvero Alenciar stands up.
(15:26:02) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: No you said why talad don't allow me to marry
(15:26:03) [Channel] [1: gossip] Ihrenir: see you later all!
(15:26:04) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: please
(15:26:15) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: I said it isnt in the law
(15:26:24) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: the wedding itself isn't i nthe law
(15:26:27) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: There is a law IC against racism
(15:26:27) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: why wont you hear
(15:26:33) Orivan says: [So why are we making this OOC?]
(15:26:35) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: no wedding is in the law
(15:26:41) [Channel] [1: gossip] Ratar: this is why I stopped following religion.
(15:26:44) >Orivan Katole takes a seat by Alvero Alenciar.
(15:26:46) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: people can marry w/e choice they made how is that hard to understand
(15:26:49) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: There is no IC law against homophobia and addressing unequal rights
(15:26:57) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: Can you read Roled ?
(15:27:00) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: stop a second and read
(15:27:07) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: everyone can marry END OF IT. there is no debate
(15:27:17) Roled says: [thankee Orivan]
(15:27:29) Tuathanach says: [back, my client crashed]
(15:27:43) Alvero says: (Np, welcome back :) )
(15:28:11) Orivan says: [Can we resume the event, then?]
(15:28:30) [Channel] [1: gossip] Arane: Straight-forward till another debate.
(15:28:38) [Channel] [1: gossip] Arane: Oh, good world, that never changes
(15:28:45) >Orivan Katole stands up.
(15:28:48) Alvero nods, putting down the books he picked up as he resolves to buy them after the event
(15:28:53) Tuathanach says: [did i miss much from when I last spoke, ie whwen roled was meant to answer talad question]
(15:29:07) >Alvero Alenciar takes a seat.
(15:29:07) >Alvero Alenciar stands up.
(15:29:07) >Alvero Alenciar takes a seat.
(15:29:30) Eresae sighs "So... do any of you have any further questions for us on our religions?"
-
I appreciate Shatterkiss for posting the gossip/chat log. I didn't do that because I hadn't asked those who made comments for permission to post their comments... I was in the process of redacting the gossip to take out unrelated comments, but, thanks Shatterkiss.
I do see the continued argument between RR's player and Zunna in gossip was not included, especially the part where I petitioned formally that Talad the developer rescind the OOC warning that Zunna issued against me and the part where because of this gossip discussion RR was prevented from continuing his role play ICly in order to refute Zunna's inaccurate assumptions and attempts to "warn" RR's player for my "manners". So I will continue as I have time to finish the redaction and post it when I have done so.
Simultaneously I plan to petition Talad the Developer to formally rescind the warning. I plan to copy that petition to all the GMs.
Minks it became real for me twice- first when I discovered that there exists a mechanics that discriminates against certain characters from something other gendered characters can do- and no amount of questing or IC behavior can change that mechanic, nor were the powers willing to change it. Second philosophically, immediately after my post and request on that issue, Eonwind states that there is no same sex marriage in Yliakum, and that any and every same sex marriage in Yliakum MUST be considered OOC.
I don't agree.
Minks, if the real question behind this is "Why do I care?" I offer the famous quote from Martin Niemoller:
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. "
This is why I care... RR of course doesn't know this poem. He only knows that he can not LEGALLY under the laws of Yliakum (the Decree is silent, see my other's post's legal reasoning for the necessity of including civil rights on this issue in the Decree) marry his sweetheart and he thinks that is LEGALLY not fair to citizens of the Dome. And he doesn't understand why a land formed by the GOD TALAD who purports to believe in kindness and peace would allow HIS CREATED WORLD to continue to adhere to such unkindness - especially his unkindness towards the relationships of love that his created race, the kran, are also unable to access. This is what Roled thinks ICly. Thanks Siteya and Rigwyn for your comments.
Anyway thanks Shatterkiss, I am all for transparency.
RR
[modified to add the poem and my commentary on the poem]
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(15:25:33) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: Saying marraidge between man/man or woman/woman isn't allowed is ooc
(15:25:35) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: IT IS ALLOWED
Characters are allowed to be incorrect about things, and being incorrect does not make a character OOC. It's also common for writers to express themselves or things from real life through their characters. The flow of inspiration from real life to character is pretty common.
If Roled the character made an explicit reference to Talad the person, then I would definitely label that as OOC. In this case, the player and in-game deity share the same name, so accidental equivocation can happen all too easily.
I would like to suggest an alternative method for dealing with this sort of situation as using force usually ends up with pissed off players.
As a player, I would have had one of my characters push Roled the character into substantiating his claim. I probably would have asked him *when* and *where* Talad said this to him, or I might have accused him of being drunk or full of crap. This kind of pushing back is all IC and can steer the story towards consistency if you think that it is going awry. It is possible too that Roled has a reason for saying these things that we are not yet aware of, so its important to give him a chance and allow the misunderstanding to play out.
Often with my role plays, I'll do things that seem to be irrational, but then allow the underlying reasons to show later on in the story. For those following a story like this, the feeling of discovering something that was previously hidden or left a mystery can be pleasing.
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This post will be long ... AND I assume this post itself might spark more debate. Which is real.
Roled I was not making assumptions speaking about the GM roles and duties, mine was a statement not under debate for sure.
Looks like you have a personal issue with some peoples, therefore we invite you to solve personal issues directly by joining #planeshift-gmtalk. We'll be glad to speak with you to solve any personal issue.
I'm speaking strictly as a player, so don't go misconstruing this as some kind of prospects vs gms kind of thing. The last time I commented on something like this ...
Rigwyn: that's why you're not a moderator or a GM ;)
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The quote from reverend Martin Neimoller I feel is sort of jumping the shark. Nobody is talking about Nazi tactics to censure, or worse, the characters in PS. But where does it end? Should we put the people against, or for, gay marriage into camps? Why even bring up the Nazis? One of the reasons people may not like this sort of discussion is because things are always taken to these hideous extremes. Its not the same situation by any reasonable stretch of the imagination. When I play PS, it is to have a respite from the world… none of this makes me want to play PS.
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May I suggest, to end this conflict (hopefully) once and for all, what if we had an OOC event in the courthouse, where this matter could be discussed. To prevent people who don't want to hear it from coming, you could have it so they have to /t a GM to get in, and if anyone comes just to troll (not just voicing a strong opinion. There's a difference) they can be teleported outside again.
While I do side strongly with those who want the button removed, I'm thinking from a neutral perspective right now. Some people insisting that this matter is addressed immediately, and others just want this debate to quiet down. It's clear that PS wants an official OOC debate where we all have an equal voice, and this idea could be that.
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Demagul thanks
While I appreciate the suggestion to de-escalate, I have no faith that an OOC discussion in game would achieve any results of equity
1) the timezone issue
2) the failures of OOC discussion, like in the forum posts, of being shut down
3) the propensity of Eonwind to discredit any suggestion that he is not all powerful
4) the assumption that GMs "know more" about role playing than players
5) the recalcitrance of hegemony
But maybe you all can think of another way to actually discuss the power over issues assumed by certain people?
Verden- Poems are poems- metaphoric, even when tied to a place and a time. For example, the majestic Ulysses by Alfred, Lord Tennyson. Check the final couplet. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/174659
In the USA right now the Supreme Court is considering whether gender neutral marriages are legal under the Constitution. Earlier this year Mexico's supreme court found that gender neutral marriage is legal. The topic could not be more immediate.
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Roled, I wouldn't bother trying to discuss this with them, that sounds like a waste of time. You made your point and the logs back you up. Case closed.
The next time this happens, you should just send a tell to each player involved and invite them into a private group so you can continue to play in /group without interference.
I'll send you this message via other means just in case it gets deleted.
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Gods have mercy.
The logs back you up, big time. Eonwind, this is not a personal issue. This is a player-led RP that got derailed because GM(s?) did not understand what you have clearly stated - NO SAME-SEX MARRIAGE UNDER THE DOME.
Big time apologies in order. It's not that hard to do, I do it myself more frequently than I would like to (because I mess up more frequently than I wish to).
Roled, sorry on many levels - the event derailed, some serious rudeness in gossip (I would have blown my top), and even here still people not discussing in good faith at times.
Eonwind, you KNOW that we know that all RP events, including player-run, are in some sense intertwined with GMs (you would say under GM supervision/control, I would say they ensure it is smooth, not disrupted, and fun, either way the substance is the same) - it's not some damn free for all orgy cuss fest just because it is player-run. We know that, you know that. Why so heavy-handed? It makes things so much worse. :( .
The logs are damning. I disagree with Rig that it is a waste of time to discuss further, but I appreciate his comments.
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Redacted gossip log
* I will start this log from the ending point of the log Shatterkiss already posted, to complete the record
* I have not included the comments of people who were not part of the discussion, since I don't have their permission to be identified. Instead I have left the time stamp to indicate that someone else typed something.
* If you made a comment during the redacted times and would like to add your comment then feel free. There were interesting discussions and disagreements during this argument, but again I do not feel free to post other people's comments without their permissions
* For a few comments directly relating to the argument between Zunna and Roled to which Zunna or Roled responded directly, I have left the time stamp and the comment but redacted the name of the speaker
* All comments in gossip from Zunna and Roled have been left intact
* Please remember Shatterkiss' log is a different time zone from Roled's
* I have included Roleds IC comment from 13:11:56 since Zunna's next comment, in gossip, directly referred to Roled's comment IC.
RR
================================================
Sat 09-May-2015 11:23:28 Roled Rolak I signed in
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(13:11:56) Roled shouts: Twas what I were trying to say. Rights... the right to be friends with those ye chose, or to adopt one ye loves, like my fine son Sarren, or en to transform power over, as Siteya spoke of Xiosia. So, I do think that because there are several gods and goddesses... well, only the Rights of Indivduals should be honored above the Gods. Fer example, I have been married to my love, Lattia, who be dead now, truely dead, fer some 3 cycles. So now I wish to marry my lover and my friend... Sir T I shall call him. Priestess Siteya will certainly marry us, won't ye? But yet, when I spoke wiht the Guard Mogrrim he did say that no, I must petition the Octarch for a license to make our marriage legal under the Laws as well as the Gods. So I aske ye all as my witnesses... to please sign with me to ask the Octarch to license the marriages of anyone to anyone, as they wish.... with race nor gender being a hindrance for a legal wedding!" Roled begins talking faster and faster, his passion growing. "Will ye help me please? Anyone??? As Sir Eresae says, we can change the laws as needed, can't we?"
(13:12:12) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:12:26) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:12:43) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:12:53) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:13:07) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:13:46) [Tell] Zunna tells you: [ Roled.. Mogrrim saif you need a license like for every other marriadge... you exagerate.]
(13:15:07) [Guild] Tuathanach has quit
(13:15:13) Roled shouts: "How can I speak fer Talad on this point when I do not believe it!?"
(13:15:39) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:15:43) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:15:50) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:16:01) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:16:04) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:16:15) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:16:20) Roled shouts: "How can I legally show my love if I canna have this license because it be not writ into the Octachs LAw???
(13:16:20) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:16:26) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:16:32) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:16:42) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:16:51) [Tell] Zunna tells you: [ You are completly ooc Roled. Are you sure you want to do that to your char ? lol ]
(13:17:12) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:18:08) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:18:13) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:18:25) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:18:51) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:19:11) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:19:50) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:19:53) Roled says: There is a law against racism- in that our races can marry whom they wilt
(13:20:18) Roled says: but no way fer kra to wed within the law, fer example
(13:20:30) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:20:48) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:21:07) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:21:15) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:21:21) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:21:24) Roled says: But we be fashioned by the Gods! And the Gods , at least Talad and Xiosia, claim that love is the basis of oru land, and therefore of our laws
(13:21:25) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:21:30) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:21:42) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:23:47) >GM warning from Zunna: I am warning you for OOC behavior in main. Truly disappointed.
(13:23:48)
(13:23:52) Roled says: [and just for the record, I asked Wulfar, he agreed to speak, he didn't show, so I as organizer of the event
(13:24:39) Roled says: [as organizer of the event I stepped in. RR was not planing to speak at all. Just to let you know Zunna. This is not ooc behavior]
(13:25:14) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: It is ooc because all you said is totaly ooc
(13:25:25) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: IF you care RR is being warned of OOC behavoir for trying to discuss the inability of men tomarry in an IC context
(13:25:35) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: and you caled out Talad and we all know you weren't speaking of the god
(13:25:38) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: IF you care about Roled please let the GMS know
(13:25:40) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: don't play innocent :p
(13:25:48) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:25:56) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: Zunna I am not playing innocent
(13:26:00) O== says: [Nothing OOC happened here as far as I see.]
(13:26:02) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: Saying marraidge between man/man or woman/woman isn't allowed is ooc
(13:26:05) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: IT IS ALLOWED
(13:26:16) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: there is no debate
(13:26:20) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: ffs stop making one there isn't any
(13:26:20) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: I called out the GOD TALADs following of kindness and peace and asked the questions what is kind about this?
(13:26:32) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: No you said why talad don't allow me to marry
(13:26:33) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:26:34) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: please
(13:26:37) [Guild] Tuathanach just joined PlaneShift
(13:26:45) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: I said it isnt in the law
(13:26:55) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: the wedding itself isn't i nthe law
(13:26:57) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: There is a law IC against racism
(13:26:57) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: why wont you hear
(13:27:06) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: no wedding is in the law
(13:27:11) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:27:16) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: people can marry w/e choice they made how is that hard to understand
(13:27:19) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: There is no IC law against homophobia and addressing unequal rights
(13:27:27) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: Can you read Roled ?
(13:27:30) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: stop a second and read
(13:27:38) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: everyone can marry END OF IT. there is no debate
(13:27:58) Tuathanach says: [back, my client crashed]
(13:29:00) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:29:08) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:29:24) Tuathanach says: [did i miss much from when I last spoke, ie whwen roled was meant to answer talad question]
(13:30:00) [Group] Roled says: hahah did you miss much, just RR getting warned by Zunna for being OOC when RR was not being ooc that's all
(13:30:00) Eresae sighs "So... do any of you have any further questions for us on our religions?" [this is where Shatterkiss' log entry in the forum post ended
(13:30:39) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: Zunna I am playing by the rules here
(13:30:45) [Group] E----- says: He was off topic, but not OOC... besides he's an excitable elf and jumps to conclussions quickly.
(13:30:56) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: Roled believes he cannot marry a man legally and he said so
(13:31:07) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: ROLED BELIEVES IT!
(13:31:17) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: How can you possibly say this isn't ic?
(13:32:55) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: It is a true point of contention for RR because he believes in the laws AND in Xiosia- and which one is he supposed to follow.
(13:33:39) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: Roled you perfectly know what you are doing. it's ok you have a cause , you stand for it etc. There is just way to do it and i bet Roled knows about this all more rthen anyone since he could hilself marry without any trouble
(13:33:42) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: So please.
(13:34:19) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: Now let's not waste this vry insteresting event you pulled out and continu on the God/dess topic
(13:34:32) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: Define 'trouble " Zunna
(13:36:14) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: Well i bet no one asked you to stop this, that it wasn't allowed ic , etc
(13:36:22) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: I want to formally lodge a protest that you ZUnna gave me an unwarrented OOC warning, I would like the OOC warning to be removed and recinded.
(13:36:33) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: :)
(13:37:03) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: And i would like you to understand that it wont work this way if you want to moove forward. In general when yo ucharge people they don't exactly appreciate
(13:37:19) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: i am not judging the cause, only the manners
(13:38:11) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: How then with due respect do I formally ask the GM Zunna to remove and recind the OOC warning against Roled?
(13:38:28) [Channel] [1: gossip] Venalan: That can only happen with someone editing the DB, so talad
(13:38:35) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: I have used no "vulgar" words
(13:39:20) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: Then Venalan how do I Formally and Respectfually petition for the removal of the OOC WArning? What is the process?
(13:39:38) [Channel] [1: gossip] Venalan: Dunno, no one has ever asked for a warning to be removed
(13:39:51) [Channel] [1: gossip] Venalan: Find talad on IRC and ask him I suppose
(13:39:56) [Group] Roled says: I am fighting it out in respectful words in gossip
(13:41:12) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: Well when one is accused of something one hasn't done, and accused by a POWER postition like a GM, how does a puny little player get it done. AND of course timing is everything... I have to be at work in 20 minutes so I now have to go
(13:41:36) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: AND my irc doesn't wor well, hardly ever manage toget into irc
(13:41:46) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: Roled, i donr't think we are particularly overwheming or Harassing. But you perfectly know that you are kind of searching it when you act like you did.
(13:41:55) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: So assume also a little, please.
(13:42:13) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: Zunna you cannot assume what I am thinking PLEASE that is the ultimate god mod
(13:42:13) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: I told you in tell in a long convo how it could have been made but you didn't cared too much
(13:42:31) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: i don't i am reacting toward your bahavior
(13:42:46) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: ROLED wasn't even goning to speak! But he did and he spoke his heart and thoughts IN CHARACTER and I an not being badly behaved!
(13:42:57) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: I am being respectful
(13:43:09) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: I have not called anyone names
(13:43:23) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: I have not told YOU what I assume YOU think
(13:43:27) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: it's not for insult that youhave been warned
(13:43:36) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:43:40) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:43:43) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: You are o na stage i nfront of a crowd of people ,maybe newcomers and you claim that people cannot marry ?
(13:43:49) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: don't you see the problem ?
(13:44:08) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: How can you say I didn't care too much? You are absolutely wrong about this Zunna ABSOLUTELY wrong about what I think and what I care about
(13:44:14) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: Don't you see the problem?????
(13:44:22) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: Well you made it pretty clear before.
(13:44:30) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:44:36) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:44:55) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:44:57) Roled mutters "Xiosia be a true Goddess. I have seen Her."
(13:44:59) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:45:00) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: ic : marriadge is allowed. there is NO DEBATE
(13:45:07) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: yes they can
(13:45:08) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:45:33) [Group] Roled says: Zunna is now telling me how I think and what I feel
(13:45:44) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:45:55) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: Exact
(13:45:58) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: there is it
(13:46:02) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: simply and round
(13:46:06) [Channel] [1: gossip]
(13:46:11) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: IC = no debate
At this point several other people joined the debate, some on one side, some on the other, some frustrated, some engaged, and several good questions were asked and points were made -RR
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(13:47:31) Roled says "Um Sorry to interrupt, Sir Tua, but I have to leave... " Roled looks at the questioner in the audience. "Sir, um, Sir, the nature of being a Goddess is I suppose having powers and abilities and insights well beyond mortals, and then perhaps using those powers and abilities for some... some ethical construct, I suppose..."
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(13:48:57) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: lol Sorry R----- (Zunna responded to another player whos name starts with R, not to Roled- RR)
(13:48:58) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: A----- and a permit comes from the law and the law does not specifically allo it
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(13:49:15) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: it does not specifically forbid it either
(13:49:16) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: com'on
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(13:49:37) Roled says: Fer give me please, I be... called elsewhere
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(13:49:52) Roled bows and leaves, wiping at his eyes
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(13:50:05) [Channel] [1: gossip] Zunna: O.O
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(13:51:07) [Group] Roled says: I got an OOC warning for my IC rp
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(13:51:18) [Group] Roled says: and now I am late for work so I gotta go
(13:51:22) [Group] Roled says: thanks you all
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(13:52:06) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: Please know I am logging ONLY because I am late for work.
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(13:52:39) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: Again Venalan and Zunna I am formally requesting that you remove the OOC warning you issued to Roled
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(13:52:52) [Channel] [1: gossip] Venalan: Talk to talad Roled
(13:52:53) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: FORMALLY REQUESTING IT AGAIN
(13:53:00) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: PLEASE CONVEY TO TALAD
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(13:53:25) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: I am so disappointed in Zunna's telling me how he thinks I think or I feel
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(13:53:33) [Channel] [1: gossip] Roled: I am late for work.
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While I appreciate the event, the GMs unasked moderation of Roled's speech was quite annoying.
First of all, what Roled said was IC. There's no arguing it. It might be related to some OOC context, but it certainly was not not IC. Whatever Roled the character says is for his player to decide.
Secondly, Zunna warning Roled was way off. I think an apology is due here. GMs shouldn't moderate RP based on if they find some link to OOC stuff, only if the OOC content is beyond doubt (i.e. if Roled mentioned the PS forum discussion, which he clearly did not.). Or do we have to fear now that the GMs monitor each and every RP for possible OOC context?
Lastly, I don't think anyone besides Zunna took offense, another type of behaviour GMs should be above. If no one complains and no RL laws are violated, go away. I think Zunna should apologize to Roled for what he did.
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Oh I see, its just some poem. So you use a loaded quotation on purpose, and then deny the significance of it. You know exactly what you posted.
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If you have an issue with a decision made by a GM or have a personal issue with us we can address that on IRC (http://planeshift.it/IRC) #planeshift-gmtalk
If you are not willing to do so, this will be the end of the discussion.