PlaneShift

Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: Kaerli_Stronwylle on August 16, 2015, 02:31:04 am

Title: Incommunicado players
Post by: Kaerli_Stronwylle on August 16, 2015, 02:31:04 am
One trend I've noticed lately is that more and more players don't want to have much, if anything, to do with Out of Character communication, especially ingame.  This makes it very hard to do everything from trying to set up and plan RPs (since we simply don't have the encounter density needed for randomly running into people to suffice for keeping plots from stalling out) to simply finding out what people want out of their RP, or even simply building relationships at an inter-player level.

Why is this?  Is this just me, or is this something we need to sit down and have a discussion as a community about?
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: hulla on August 16, 2015, 07:44:12 pm
Hello
as an (ex) french player i think i have a part of the answer many player in mmorpg simply dont speak english   :-X
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Semutara on August 16, 2015, 08:41:22 pm
HULLAAAA :D  \\o//
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: gonger on August 16, 2015, 11:04:13 pm
Some people are simply not interested in communication at all, be it IC or OOC.
The number of times I /greet someone without the slightest reaction, even though they are not AFK (moving around, for example)...
@Hulla: True, some people do not speak English too well (I find it hard to believe that they don't speak English at all). One of the best ways to learn a language is to simply speak the language and to learn from your mistakes. Learning by doing.


Modified because of typos.
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: MishkaL1138 on August 16, 2015, 11:26:19 pm
Kaerli, the problem is that you have to pinpoint every single outcome and dissect every other scenario we come up with. So that's why people refuse to discuss some things with you OOCly. Sorry to be harsh but it's the only way you'll understand this.

Quit forcing RPs, and let it flow. Roleplaying is like a fart: if you push it, it's probably a [REDACTED].
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Rigwyn on August 17, 2015, 08:21:49 am
One trend I've noticed lately is that more and more players don't want to have much, if anything, to do with Out of Character communication, especially ingame.  This makes it very hard to do everything from trying to set up and plan RPs (since we simply don't have the encounter density needed for randomly running into people to suffice for keeping plots from stalling out) to simply finding out what people want out of their RP, or even simply building relationships at an inter-player level.

Why is this?  Is this just me, or is this something we need to sit down and have a discussion as a community about?

Yes, it is just you, for the most part. Most newcommers learn to stick to IC info and just play the damn game after a week or so. You? You've been obsessing over this kind of stuff for years now and I'm sure you have a rationalization or excuse for it. If you don't like role playing with IC info only or feel that you cannot role play with IC information only, then you are probably not really interested in role playing.

Surpise, surprise....

Roleplaying is like a fart: if you push it, it's probably a [REDACTED].

Yes, there is much truth in this statement.
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Cairn on August 17, 2015, 04:07:20 pm
If you don't like role playing with IC info only or feel that you cannot role play with IC information only, then you are probably not really interested in role playing.

Surpise, surprise....


I can't wait until Garris gets a hold of this one xD

But let me just echo what Rigwyn said, and give you a little history in the mix:

A few years ago, there was a time period where ANY OOC info was frowned upon. People didn't want you in tells, there was no gossip, and if you bracketed in main you were a dumbhead. Why? Because that particular group of people realized that our natural reaction is to use ANY ooc information in our IC conversations, through mostly no fault of our own.

We're a lot more relaxed now. But honest to god, most of us recognize that with you, OOC info is not an option. We can't give you that. Truth be told I feel uncomfortable giving ANY player OOC info, and I don't care how much they trust me or I trust them! Honest to goodness, it's why I don't post logs, hardly ever post my RPs on the forums, etc.

But that's just history.

"If you don't like roleplaying with IC info only or feel like you cannot role play with IC information only, then you are probably not really interested in role playing."

And history backs it up ;)
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: gonger on August 17, 2015, 08:43:35 pm
I try to keep my RP IC as much as possible, but sometimes it helps a lot to be OOC for a moment. For example, missunderstandings happen, and quite often a short OOC comment can help to clear a situation.
It's a problem of balance: Be IC as much as possible, but don't hesitate to be OOC whenever it is necessary.

PS Kaerli, we need to RP more, so I can see for myself whether you are obsessed or not!
  :)
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Kaerli_Stronwylle on August 29, 2015, 04:41:56 am
One trend I've noticed lately is that more and more players don't want to have much, if anything, to do with Out of Character communication, especially ingame.  This makes it very hard to do everything from trying to set up and plan RPs (since we simply don't have the encounter density needed for randomly running into people to suffice for keeping plots from stalling out) to simply finding out what people want out of their RP, or even simply building relationships at an inter-player level.

Why is this?  Is this just me, or is this something we need to sit down and have a discussion as a community about?

Yes, it is just you, for the most part. Most newcommers learn to stick to IC info and just play the damn game after a week or so. You? You've been obsessing over this kind of stuff for years now and I'm sure you have a rationalization or excuse for it. If you don't like role playing with IC info only or feel that you cannot role play with IC information only, then you are probably not really interested in role playing.

Surpise, surprise....

Roleplaying is like a fart: if you push it, it's probably a [REDACTED].

Yes, there is much truth in this statement.

Here's the thing -- people don't respond well to my characters' ways of trying to get information ICly either; asking directly runs straight into the complex web of social secret-keeping that characterises PS RP, espionage has ranged from almost fruitless to downright counterproductive for me, and physical evidence is disdained by the other RPers in this community (I have no clue why, either).
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Ebonwumon on August 29, 2015, 07:24:10 am
One other thing to consider is that if 100 players are online and 6 don't reply to you, it seems like RP is thriving and you have tonnes of people to interact with.

But when 12 players are online...
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Kaerli_Stronwylle on August 29, 2015, 10:41:13 pm
One other thing to consider is that if 100 players are online and 6 don't reply to you, it seems like RP is thriving and you have tonnes of people to interact with.

But when 12 players are online...
Aye -- this is a much larger problem because of the small size of our community; I don't have the ability to "pick and choose" what subcommunities to interact with any longer.
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Kaerli_Stronwylle on August 30, 2015, 01:15:24 am
Kaerli, the problem is that you have to pinpoint every single outcome and dissect every other scenario we come up with. So that's why people refuse to discuss some things with you OOCly. Sorry to be harsh but it's the only way you'll understand this.

Quit forcing RPs, and let it flow. Roleplaying is like a fart: if you push it, it's probably a [REDACTED].
I'd like to do that, but what should I do when players refuse to RP with my characters, because their past biases overpower any chance of current experience overcoming them?  Is the anon-alt approach my only hope?
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Aramara Meibi on August 30, 2015, 03:24:01 am
  Is the anon-alt approach my only hope?

try it.
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: gonger on August 30, 2015, 10:44:05 am
Kaerli, the problem is that you have to pinpoint every single outcome and dissect every other scenario we come up with. So that's why people refuse to discuss some things with you OOCly. Sorry to be harsh but it's the only way you'll understand this.

Quit forcing RPs, and let it flow. Roleplaying is like a fart: if you push it, it's probably a [REDACTED].
I'd like to do that, but what should I do when players refuse to RP with my characters, because their past biases overpower any chance of current experience overcoming them?  Is the anon-alt approach my only hope?

As I said, I never RPed much with you, so I do not really know what went wrong with your RPing (or what others think went wrong with your RP). But since I talked to you a lot, I believe that you are a reasonable person who honestly cares about PlaneShift, and your role there.
Therefore I would hope that people might give Kaerli a second chance. As it says more than once in PlaneShift: "Characters change, and therefore their RP should also change."
Maybe you need to "implement" a reason for change into your RP. Be creative about that, and let people see it.

Best of luck,
Gonger
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Kaerli_Stronwylle on September 15, 2015, 05:27:06 am
I'd like to raise a point in counter to those who are saying that RP should only require IC communication -- how are we, as a community, supposed to build the inter-player trust relationships needed for RP if we don't communicate with each other as players?
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Rigwyn on September 15, 2015, 06:36:49 am
What does inter-player trust have to do with playing a character? You make a character, you role play with it, and that's that.  Your character knows nothing about players or things outside of the IC environment, player plans, or whatever. They only know what they see, hear, taste, touch or smell. As a player, you need to determine which things your character was able to perceive, and which things they could not. Obviously, your character is not privy to every single comment that shows up in main, only the things that are reasonable.

If you have trouble separating IC from OOC, then it's probably better to not look for OOC information.

As for trust, it's earned over time. To earn trust, you need to demonstrate that you are trustworthy.  If people decide to trust you, they will. Easy-peasy.
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Eonwind on September 15, 2015, 01:03:10 pm
I'd like to raise a point in counter to those who are saying that RP should only require IC communication -- how are we, as a community, supposed to build the inter-player trust relationships needed for RP if we don't communicate with each other as players?
You are right: the best inter-players relationships are built when not only IC interactions occur. For some particular RP threads the IC communications between players are not only desirable but also necessary for all players to feel comfortable to play with each others.
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Cairn on September 15, 2015, 03:18:46 pm
For a year and a half I played a character who had NO OOC contact with anyone. No friends list, no /tells, no gossip.

It was a BLAST. I still was able to RP, in fact the RP I got into was thrilling, because my focus was completely on it. Not how I was going to impress someone, or offend them. The single thing I had in my OOC descriptor box was "If I offend you, /tell me and we'll work it out."

No one once sent me a /tell.

This might not work for everyone. But to say that you NEED OOC to some degree to RP is not true. You really can play ICly and have a great time ;)
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Eonwind on September 15, 2015, 03:48:00 pm
This might not work for everyone. But to say that you NEED OOC to some degree to RP is not true.
No it's true. You probably did not fall on sensitive topic or failed to understand whether someone got offended (not everyone complain, someone may just decide to quit) or you were simply lucky and always found peoples thinking your RP threads are acceptable. In any case it's the exception which confirm the rule.
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Cairn on September 15, 2015, 03:51:22 pm
Or I simply enjoyed the game without worrying about who's toes I stepped on, if any.
(I've had gazillions of RP threads that have offended some people to some degree or another.)

Here's the catch:

Much like in real life - If YOU fail to tell anyone that what they are doing is bothering you, you will have found no solution.
In PS if you fail to do so, that is also your prerogative. Let's not wait for others to fix our problems for us.

Why is this? Because people are infinitely different in the smallest ways, or largest. If you spend your whole life worrying about being perfect or pleasing others, you have lost a good portion of who you are instead. Embrace creativity and ideas, and if you find offense, seek to make it right, no?

Those who complain are contented to sit back and watch life pass them by. Those who seek to find a change, however small it is, are the real doers of the world.

 If a character is created, plays within PlaneShift's settings, and abides by PlaneShift's 'PG' ruling? There's no reason to go OOC at all. You can live a perfectly happy IC life. And if you offend anyone, then it's their problem - you're following Talad's rules to par!

;D
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Eonwind on September 15, 2015, 04:09:35 pm
Or I simply enjoyed the game without worrying about who's toes I stepped on, if any.
(I've had gazillions of RP threads that have offended some people to some degree or another)
well yes ... this confirm the rule  ;D if someone doesn't care to "offend" or about the counterpart feelings there is no point in having OOC convo. But in that case you're not building an inter-player relationship. It's a perfectly legit choice as much as you comply the rules ...

If a character is created, plays within PlaneShift's settings, and abides by PlaneShift's 'PG' ruling? There's no reason to go OOC at all. You can live a perfectly happy IC life. And if you offend anyone, then it's their problem - you're following Talad's rules to par! ;D
This is true but is the theory  ;D and (un)fortunately real world is sometimes less perfect than the rule would like and it sometimes happens to step on the rules despite good intentions.

Still real inter-player (as opposed to inter-PC) relationships can not occur if the players always wear their IC-masks (aka their character) and they never put their mask off ;)

Not everyone is interested in inter-player relationships (and that's perfectly legit) but for who is interested I think Kaerli raised a good point.
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Cairn on September 15, 2015, 04:11:25 pm
I agree. If you're interested in inter-player relationships, go for it.

But from my experience, Kaerli is interested in meta-gaming. No one else is.
If you want to foster inter player relationships, do so in a way that it is strictly inter player, and NOT OOC/IC interplay beeznees.

And frankly, I can't offer any advice on fostering relationships. That goes beyond gaming and planeshift :P
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Ascomanni on September 15, 2015, 06:28:51 pm
building relationships between players can be a rich and rewarding experience, however, the proverbial ice breakers should stem from interactions between characters. Trust and friendship is built from these shared interactions and a mutual admiration from how the characters are portrayed.

A notable exception to this my me the mentor/mentee relationship where some OOC communication may coincide with the early interactions, but to suggest that OOC communication should precede or is even a necessity is incorrect. This methodology is more often than not creepy, unwanted, and detrimental to the process.
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Kaerli_Stronwylle on September 28, 2015, 01:36:49 am
Or I simply enjoyed the game without worrying about who's toes I stepped on, if any.
(I've had gazillions of RP threads that have offended some people to some degree or another.)

Here's the catch:

Much like in real life - If YOU fail to tell anyone that what they are doing is bothering you, you will have found no solution.
In PS if you fail to do so, that is also your prerogative. Let's not wait for others to fix our problems for us.

Why is this? Because people are infinitely different in the smallest ways, or largest. If you spend your whole life worrying about being perfect or pleasing others, you have lost a good portion of who you are instead. Embrace creativity and ideas, and if you find offense, seek to make it right, no?

Those who complain are contented to sit back and watch life pass them by. Those who seek to find a change, however small it is, are the real doers of the world.

 If a character is created, plays within PlaneShift's settings, and abides by PlaneShift's 'PG' ruling? There's no reason to go OOC at all. You can live a perfectly happy IC life. And if you offend anyone, then it's their problem - you're following Talad's rules to par!

;D

First off -- most people can intuit when they are starting to offend someone and back off then -- I don't have that intuition nearly as much. 

Second -- my natural approach to the world undermines many of the assumptions that form the basis of the RP community around here -- assumptions about what RP is about, how the world should behave, what characters should know about the world they are in, and even how characters should live out their day-to-day lives.

Finally -- my natural approach to the world leads to a RP style that when left unchecked, is pretty inherently offensive to most RPers here, but in a way that isn't obvious enough at first glance to draw complaints; I'm basically one walking player agency problem in a setup like this, which is quite an insidious thing to be.
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Rigwyn on September 28, 2015, 02:10:38 am

Second -- my natural approach to the world undermines many of the assumptions that form the basis of the RP community around here -- assumptions about what RP is about, how the world should behave, what characters should know about the world they are in, and even how characters should live out their day-to-day lives.

Finally -- my natural approach to the world leads to a RP style that when left unchecked, is pretty inherently offensive to most RPers here, but in a way that isn't obvious enough at first glance to draw complaints; I'm basically one walking player agency problem in a setup like this, which is quite an insidious thing to be.

(http://i.imgur.com/1X5ufmU.png)

Imagine for a moment that I joined a baseball team and upon receiving much grief from fellow players, I argued to no avail, that my way of playing baseball (which involves shooting poisoned darts and hiding the bases behind my back) was based on my "different mind", "unique lifestyle" and "keen ability to think outside of the box".  If they didn't buy it and asked me to change or leave, do you think that it might behoove me to learn how "others" play ball, and start playing it the way they play it?

Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Sekto Rispiar on September 29, 2015, 02:17:08 am
I find OOC interaction useful for clarifying vagueries and misunderstandings. But it can also be another mode of enjoyment in areas such as gossip, when there are people chatting who are OOCly fun/pleasant/interesting to talk with.

However, the heart and soul of PS is RP IC; in the words of the immortal bard, "the Play's the thing."

Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Kaerli_Stronwylle on September 29, 2015, 02:18:20 am

Second -- my natural approach to the world undermines many of the assumptions that form the basis of the RP community around here -- assumptions about what RP is about, how the world should behave, what characters should know about the world they are in, and even how characters should live out their day-to-day lives.

Finally -- my natural approach to the world leads to a RP style that when left unchecked, is pretty inherently offensive to most RPers here, but in a way that isn't obvious enough at first glance to draw complaints; I'm basically one walking player agency problem in a setup like this, which is quite an insidious thing to be.

(http://i.imgur.com/1X5ufmU.png)

Imagine for a moment that I joined a baseball team and upon receiving much grief from fellow players, I argued to no avail, that my way of playing baseball (which involves shooting poisoned darts and hiding the bases behind my back) was based on my "different mind", "unique lifestyle" and "keen ability to think outside of the box".  If they didn't buy it and asked me to change or leave, do you think that it might behoove me to learn how "others" play ball, and start playing it the way they play it?
I've tried asking how you folks play ball over and over -- and time and time again, folks try to explain RP from the same assumption-base they expect PS players to hold, without stating those assumptions, or recasting their explanation when I indicate I'm not understanding it.

Also: when I do swing away from the conflict-metagame complex, I get penalized for doing so in the form of a lack of support for my efforts.  I have a character who wants to build a bridge over the Irifon, for instance; however, I get the sense that such a RP would receive nil support from the community, if not opposition, hence I basically dare not try at the moment.

Furthermore, I have a challenge for you -- explain to me how a long-term, real-world conflict develops and functions without developing an associated conflict-metagame.
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Rigwyn on September 29, 2015, 05:14:59 am
When you say "associated conflict metagame" do you mean that you see the game as something more akin to a chessboard, and the characters more akin to pawns and rooks?  In this scenario, the conflict is between the two players, the challenge is between the two players (as in chess), but the pieces are just there to be pushed by the players? This is PVP.

What many of us are doing is more akin to acting. As players, we don't compete with each other as chess players would. We actually take a more neutral hands-off stance. We let our characters take center stage and make the decisions on their own. We as players are more or less observers or mediators who act on behalf of our characters. If your character was to threaten my character (Rigwyn) and if he was aware of the threat, he would more than likely plot against your character - because that is his nature. If you did the same to my dwarf (Sillamon), he would probably give you a grandfatherly hug and wish you well. Again, these choices stem from the character, not from the player. This is role playing, it's character vs character, not player vs player.

Does that help?
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Garris Shrike on September 30, 2015, 12:08:16 am
Tuppence:

Point: "nobody tells me how you all roll"
Riposte: We've told you hundreds, if not thousands of times. Many of us, personally. From the very -moment- you stepped into this game, we've taken the time to gently walk you through what we're doing. Don't use that excuse with me to justify why you keep asking. You've been told. You either like it or you don't, or you're trying to manipulate us somehow, which just makes me even angrier. Perhaps it's ok to just admit that you don't WANT to play the way we do.

Point: "Conflict metagaming"
Riposte: Rigwyn was a dearheart to sum this up for you, but once more, this is something you've been TOLD. We're not doing player versus player in this game, Kaerli. We're acting out little lives here. The conflict that arises up isn't something you can just get in and plan with each other to say there's a winner. There's more than Fifty shades of Gray in this stuff, and you can't dumb it down to "u tell me wut u r goin do so I can make kerli winn0r."

There IS no associated conflict metgame. We aren't hiding it from you. We aren't hiding ANYTHING from you. It really makes me mad to no end that the whole vibe I am getting from this is you are trying to make us the bad guys for excluding YOU!

We have spent almost a literal DECADE telling you these things, trying to help you, and working with you as best as we can! Some of the greatest writers and roleplayers in this game's history have spent HOURS teaching and telling you things! You know this is true, so to keep coming back like a dog to its puke to reiterate these things is insanity! I know you may have a problem, mate, but the end result is this:

You want the truth?

This is obviously NOT the game for you. You're out to win/fight/have virtual sex/force your WILL on everyone, while everyone else is trying to just play.
You want a game where you can have fantastical powers and fight virtual gods? This isn't it.

I promise to you that you will find your peace and happiness elsewhere. There is no shame in moving on and admitting something isn't right for you. Best to not try and make us fit your mold any more, nor have us try and force you into one either.

Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Demagul Riwe on September 30, 2015, 03:14:57 am
From the start I was planning on staying out of this discussion, but I feel like Garris brings up a good point that I want to discuss.

Point: "nobody tells me how you all roll"
Riposte: We've told you hundreds, if not thousands of times. Many of us, personally. From the very -moment- you stepped into this game, we've taken the time to gently walk you through what we're doing. Don't use that excuse with me to justify why you keep asking. You've been told. You either like it or you don't, or you're trying to manipulate us somehow, which just makes me even angrier. Perhaps it's ok to just admit that you don't WANT to play the way we do.

Kaerli, whenever we try to explain how things work, you just demand to know why things are the way they are and then argue any reasoning that you don't agree with, or as you told me, you're "asking me to defend my point". There's no defense to make except for the fact that this is what the majority of PS wants from the game and it's really annoying for a single player to run around trying to morph PS into their own personal interests. You can attempt to dissect other people's ideas and wishes as much as you want for all those technical, irrelevant details, but no matter what you find chances are you won't be changing anything. In fact you'll probably just cause people to avoid talking to you.
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: verden on October 01, 2015, 05:14:08 am
To be honest, I was laughing in sort of slight horror at the comments from Demagul, Garris and Rigwyn above. Kaerli, you come at people in chat, both in game and IRC, going through a process of pumping people for their reactions on these stories that sometimes go to strange places that are not really kid friendly. I am putting that mildly. But what people are saying above is true, and I am sort of surprised that it has finally come up on the forum. Its been going on for about a decade, but there used to be more players active. But its all gone too far, I even get a sense that you are metagaming with this thread.
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Kaerli_Stronwylle on October 04, 2015, 11:06:48 pm
Bringing things around to the matter of assumptions, I quote Aramara from a different thread:

quote author=Aramara Meibi link=topic=42276.msg478049#msg478049 date=1442450438]
Hey, my sun is in Aquarius, 'go with the flow' is written in my stars. The 'flow' in the special case of RP is the narrative. Creating conflict, drama, tension, challenges, dire consequences, all these drive the narrative. So it's a matter of feeling out the direction the story wants to go and going there intuitively. So if it makes more narrative sense for my character to lose a battle or suffer from heartbreak, then it becomes ok, even enjoyable for me to allow that to happen, instead of forcing a happy ending where it doesn't naturally belong.

Some submissiveness is vital to the health of society, but everything in balance, know when to assert yourself and know when to act passively. Any character trait taken to its extreme is unhealthy and unregulated. I imagine the kind of person who wears a different face depending on the crowd they're in, 'catering to everyone', is missing a fundamental authentic self-image. Know what you stand for and stand for it.

But that's RL, and likewise derailing the thread. this is a game and a gaming community, so there has to be give and take for everyone to enjoy the game. My point is that by taking your ego out of the experience and making your decisions based on something larger and more abstract, such as 'the community' or 'the narrative' could allow you the player to let your character to suffer the consequences and still enjoy the game.
[/quote]

Am I correct in that this community assumes players can intuit/feel out how a narrative should go?  I ask because I've always been someone who's had a logical/visual intuition, instead of a social one -- is there no room in PS for players that lack social/story intuition?

(And P.S. one of the great senses I've had is that PS is representative of most online RP communities -- and that means that the kinds of problems I have here will just recur over and over if I just go community-seeking)
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Rigwyn on October 04, 2015, 11:50:59 pm
Am I correct in that this community assumes players can intuit/feel out how a narrative should go?  I ask because I've always been someone who's had a logical/visual intuition, instead of a social one -- is there no room in PS for players that lack social/story intuition?

I don't think Aramara is talking about sixth sense or some other ability that you don't have. It's much simpler than that. Sometimes when role playing a person might sway a little bit one way or the other because they feel that doing so might add to the story. There is a balance here between bending a little for the sake of the story and staying true to your character. It's a grey area.

Quote
(And P.S. one of the great senses I've had is that PS is representative of most online RP communities -- and that means that the kinds of problems I have here will just recur over and over if I just go community-seeking)

And this seems to be true with real life. Sometimes we move to another location or terminate a relationship and start a new one thinking that everything will be better. We then see that the problem crops up once again in the new location or relationship. Some people go though life repeating this sort of viscous cycle without realizing that they are just dragging their toxic baggage from one place to the next. The solution in this case if for the person to see that it is their own baggage that smells and then to clean it up.

Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Aramara Meibi on October 08, 2015, 03:50:57 am
Kaerli, if your question is something along the lines of, "why can't I relate to people?" Or "what is my relationship to society/the world/the rest of existence/God?" Then I'm afraid you won't find the answer on an internet gaming forum. My sincere advice is to find a trained, professional counselor to help you explore these questions. My recommendation is someone who works with Jungian depth analysis, archetypal theory, gestalt theory, existential theory, rogerian theory, or transpersonal  theory (my personal favorite). Or at least find someone you are comfortable with and who has your welfare in mind.

I'm being very sincere here, this is what I'm in grad school for. I'm in no way being snarky, or calling you crazy, or telling you that you need help. But I can see that you ARE asking for help, and the kind of help you are asking for can only be found in the living, breathing presence of another person, not on the Internet. All blessings to you.
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Volki on October 10, 2015, 04:54:23 am
>I ask because I've always been someone who's had a logical/visual intuition, instead of a social one -- is there no room in PS for players that lack social/story intuition?

@Kaerli, what you are describing transcends differences in natural talents. You're describing autism. The only way to understand other players or people in general is to train yourself, if simply growing up around people wasn't enough. Watch other people interacting and look for their cues. Try to imagine how you would be feeling and what you would be thinking in their shoes.

For example, if you're rambling on about something that you think is interesting, and the person you're speaking to is not looking at you, chances are that person is bored and wants to get away from you but doesn't want to be rude.

Much like in real life - If YOU fail to tell anyone that what they are doing is bothering you, you will have found no solution.

The number of times I've been muted/kicked/banned because of people like this is astounding.

My favorite was the one where I was banned for being in proximity to some furries roleplaying, came back from being afk, saw something silly, responded to it in OOC "[cuz that's how that works!]" (or something similar) -- BANT! I know my reputation, but come on. Punish for the act, not the person.
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Kaerli_Stronwylle on October 10, 2015, 06:53:08 pm
Kaerli, if your question is something along the lines of, "why can't I relate to people?" Or "what is my relationship to society/the world/the rest of existence/God?" Then I'm afraid you won't find the answer on an internet gaming forum. My sincere advice is to find a trained, professional counselor to help you explore these questions. My recommendation is someone who works with Jungian depth analysis, archetypal theory, gestalt theory, existential theory, rogerian theory, or transpersonal  theory (my personal favorite). Or at least find someone you are comfortable with and who has your welfare in mind.

I'm being very sincere here, this is what I'm in grad school for. I'm in no way being snarky, or calling you crazy, or telling you that you need help. But I can see that you ARE asking for help, and the kind of help you are asking for can only be found in the living, breathing presence of another person, not on the Internet. All blessings to you.
Rest assured that I'm working with a professional on these matters.

@Sarras: I know :P

@Cairn from the quote -- when I try to bring up that this stuff bothers me, I basically get nothing useful in reply, just argument fodder
Title: Re: Incommunicado players
Post by: Ariel Arilon on May 21, 2016, 11:09:32 pm
When I first began my MMORPG experience, it was in a world that required you to be in-character at all times else bad things would happen. Yet in the entire world there was 1 place set aside inside a building (away from others that were IC) that the gods allowed OOC discussions and planning.

Mayhaps the gods of this world would grant players a similar place or locality to meet where OOC conversations can safely take place, if asked nicely?