PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: netforce10 on June 15, 2017, 01:14:53 pm
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As is clear we need more RP in planeshift, currently the most effective way to RP is to whisper to someone or ask in gossip. There are the couple of meetings you might have but in general those are sparse. To me it is clear that our characters either need to share a common place where they often stay/meet or be able to easily find eachother. To that effect I have the following ideas on which I would like to hear everyone's opinions and especially those of the devs.
1. Have a place where all/most crafts can be practiced, this leads to everyone naturally gravitating to a single place, meeting often and staying in the same place for extended periods of time making spontaneous RP more likely.
2. Give characters the ability to own a workshop/atelier, this creates the possibility to have shops which are open on specific times without the player having to waste their time standing around waiting (they would be able to practice their craft while they wait). It would also increase the chance to find someone specific if that person owns a workshop. Furthermore, it would increase trading between players.
Both ideas aren't completely thought/written out but if they are well received I'll make a more detailed proposal if needed.
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Addressing #2. This won't work because most crafting area's require certain 'doubles' or something in order to work properly and are hidden among the maps under the floors of the current crafting areas. Also it was denied at one point when people suggested having the ability to do that or have them installed in their guild houses at least (and this would lead to that), for several reasons. Main reason is people would really never leave their guild house! I'm wondering if you could just buy a kiosk or a book stand with a book or two advertising what you have to offer and set that down next to you as you craft? less items/lag caused that way as well than a full kiosk stand. And I think the idea of having so many places to craft all over was so that no matter where you were at you could stop and craft something in a jiff. Not to mention only so many people can use a certain area, some have way fewer slots than others even.
*Edit* I may have misunderstood a bit on your point 1. There IS a place where I think most if not all crafts can be created but it's a bit far out and away, the Bronze Doors hosts this area.
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Yes there is the Bronze door which has a herbal/cooking/brewing area and a smithing area, but as you said, they are out of the way and smiths would most likely never(or rarely if they happen to be there and need to craft something) seeing as the storage is further away than any of the other smithies. I'm also not saying that the other crafting areas should be removed but that on should be added as I think having one accessible area for all craft will natural attract people, especially those who wish to RP.
Could you explain why the 'doubles' would prove a problem, seeing as you could simply add them to new crafting areas aswell? I completely agree that guildhouses should not have crafting areas, however my idea would be to require that workshops/ateliers are required to be open if the owner is inside (this isn't that enforceable but I would like to believe it would be followed, especially if it is checked at random.)
It is true I could just put a book somewhere(and there is one on the merchant board) but, that is not as much fun, there is a huge difference between actually having player run shops with a variety on display and having people put up a book on one of the billboards(it's like having an empty guildhouse with a description book telling what the room looks like versus having a guildhouse with furniture.) Another large difference, assuming the workshops would mostly be placed in a specific area, is that people can go to that area and see which shops are open.
Now lag is an issue, I have no clue how the server works or how much strain it would put on the server to have x areas without anyone in them and y with at least a person in them.
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No I mean for players to be able to set down a stove on their own say by the fountain. That won't work because then it won't actually work, from the way I understand.
I think people would throw a fit if you removed crafting areas from all over. They like the ability to craft wherever they are at, I mean it's worth asking about, but I don't know that I see that happening. (Again if you have 3 people that want to us a pot. for example..)
And I meant with the book stand, not to just set it up and walk off like the billboards. But say you are hanging out in the arena mixing up something-set it out and put your book that explains what you have for sale, prices etc. Then as hunters come to sell or store loot they can see you are there are open for business. Just and idea really that would be simple and require little effort an no actual changes from the devs.
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To clarify a couple of points: I don't think any crafting areas should be removed, All should stay where they are. Only that a single one should be added in an accessible place (preferably hydlaa) with a storage.
I'm also not saying that players should be able to buy stoves and set them up somewhere, I'm suggesting that having a series houses of which the door are unlockable and serve as a workshop for a character. In that house there would be the crafting stations(locked in place by GM) that the character would need for their main profession. It would then also serve as a shop where they could display their wares so that others can easily find them because i.e. the sign on the door says it's larili's shop which sells drinks and a green book on it which says it's open.
It is true that I could put down a bookstand+book, except I don't think there is a spot with a "lot" of traffic with pot,preparation table and brewing facilities and it's still a book not an array of goods displayed, the markets would be a lot bleaker if people only used books.
Well then why don't I put items on display? Because it's more of a pain to do compared to having a place where you can keep it on display and not have to grab and bring everything to storage every time. That is especially true as I don't just would want to have a shop myself but I want others to have one aswell making it a lot more likely you'll be able to procure something you need for a quest or something you would like. For multiple people to do it it would need to be no hassle. Basically whenever you set up shop the only thing you would need to do is unlock the door, go in and do your main crafts till someone comes in.
I hope this doesn't seem to you like a rant as it certainly isn't meant that way but purely to know if people would want this and if this is possible or a even good idea.
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No it's not a rant, a very good and fun idea as well. I guess I just totally misunderstood from the start! :oops:
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While not a high traffic area, doesn't the explorer's camp have a bunch of crafting whatsits in one place?
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While not a high traffic area, doesn't the explorer's camp have a bunch of crafting whatsits in one place?
It does, but it also is a PVP area...
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I don't think the issue is the pvp area, rather the fact that nearest storage is like, miles away? :devil:
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While not a high traffic area, doesn't the explorer's camp have a bunch of crafting whatsits in one place?
It does, but it also is a PVP area...
That area is NOT a PvP zone.
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Don't know if the GMs can do such a thing, but a banker and a Ptero might make it ideal.
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Don't know if the GMs can do such a thing, but a banker and a Ptero might make it ideal.
Hahah, no. We can move an existing storage NPC and existing ptero handler...but I think that might annoy the devs more so... This is something best asked of Venalan to do.
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While not a high traffic area, doesn't the explorer's camp have a bunch of crafting whatsits in one place?
It does, but it also is a PVP area...
That area is NOT a PvP zone.
DUH! My bad, I was thinking of Camp Banished, of course. :oops:
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phew, i thought i was so much out of the loop that i would have forgotten thinks like that!
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Many of the more streamlined MMOGs, which exist only to capture users for commercial exploitation, continue to employ concepts such as vendors, repairs, crafting, and the like mostly as a way to add some variety to their combat–focused experience. Also because that gives their users one more thing to do in their grasp.
Most of them have since pandered to the impatiences of their users and consolidated many of such needs in cities which place the provisions together at short distances.
Sure, there is some novelty to having a certain trainer or immobile re-agent — workcenter, what–have–you — in a distant dungeon or village, but eventually, if the MMOG is designed for dungeon-running or raid-battles, that trainer is either useful or is slowly obsolved and falls into disuse. If it is useful, then it is eventually moved to one of those major cities.
Of course, stuff like that happens for the sake of convenience in our world, too. It may be nice to browse a market, looking for exotic wares, but once we've settled on things that we like, we tend to prefer the more convenient source for our supplies.
That's what should be simulated: If you want to consolidate things into one place, then you need to consider the logistics from the perspective of a person in–universe.
What does it take for them to decide that it is profitable or feasible? How long would it take for them to establish a consolidated workcenter?
There are some MMORPGs which make things like that a part of the gameplay.
As for storage: I've never like banking or storage via NPC. Where are our caravans? Our sapient pearwood chests? Our portable holes? (Oh, bother.)
Even rentable carts and wheelbarrows and lorries would be better than stationing an NPC who magically retrieves and stashes your materials.
Final thought: remember that the purpose of the Yliakum world is to enjoy it — whether for the sake of a story or for the simple beauty of the environments. If everything is in Hydlaa, then be sure that the other parts of the world are not neglected or diminished — unless that is part of the story.
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As a temporary measure, considering how long we have suffered a lack of player numbers, I would like to see all crafting stations available around the Hydlaa Plaza, inside the houses if IC for the profession, with the market from East Hydlaa, set up around the Laanx statue. This might bring players into a tighter community in game and although the rest of the Dome might suffer for it the Plaza could prove a hive of activity. Should the player numbers increase in the future then these crafting venues could be closed by the Octarch. In RP there is always a way.
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Oh, of course. :-[
Well, I think one of the reasons for that not being implemented nowadays is the fact that it would lead to unnecessary contention. See to the recent closing of the RCD for an example of why.
It would be nice if you could rent venues for a certain amount of time — but what would happen with evicted items? Again, contention and nastiness bleeding over from the simulated world to the users.
Alternatives: I think you can ask a GM to lock–down items of yours which would make for a stall somewhere. Almost like a brick–and–mortar shop.
First off, I hope you don't mind I reply here but it's more fitting I think.
I'll be honest and say that I only know the RCD as either the seized and closed building or the public use space that it is now. But given what little I know about it it turned to a situation where a small group/one person controlled the building and it stopped being a place for the benefit of the public. This most likely is wrong so please correct it if I'm fundamentally wrong.
This type of contention would not be present as a shop would be owned/rented by a single character and wouldn't be allowed to be sold to another character or rented out to another character. (both reselling and re-renting would create undesirable situations in my opinion).
Therefore the only contention arising is from characters not doing anything with their shops and gms evicting characters?
The first, is a problem which I don't think there is a real solution for except if all those hiring would accept the decision from either a GM, a commitee or another entity. Something like that is easy to get people to agree to until something they don't like happens, then there would be contention.
As for evicted items, they could be held in storage by one of the gms(whom supposedly evicted them) or in a bunch of crates or the like in a gm only location. After a while all items could be "destroyed"/"converted" into tria (or something) except the "special" ones at discretion of the person handling it.
I think that as long as it is clear that you may be evicted at the discretion of a gm, that it is possible to lose any items you place inside, that you wouldn't lose your items immediately and you have some ability to protect against abuse from GMs (just in case it were to occur) then I think that dissent about it would be minimal and worth it.
As to the alternative: I'm failing to see the difference between that and asking a gm for a personal building to use as a shop from a minimize contention point of view, from a functional view however it lacks the inherent physical storage a shop building would provide as any items not locked down by a gm could be taken by anyone.
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Just to give my two trias:
Maybe adding items that look like corresponding work station rather than being actually one? Then people could RP with them.
The second idea is redesigning the gameplay so it wouldn't be so time consuming and wouldn't distract from the actual point, roleplay. Idea i strongly favour myself.
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The second idea is redesigning the gameplay so it wouldn't be so time consuming and wouldn't distract from the actual point, roleplay. Idea i strongly favour myself.
Idea I strongly disapprove. It's already too easy to master every craft at the same time. If crafting becomes instant and challenge-less, it becomes pointless as well. Fighting and magic are currently boring, there's really no need to destroy crafting too.
What's more, Aeghiss definitely is a crafter, and RPing while crafting is something I really appreciate as a player.
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The second idea is redesigning the gameplay so it wouldn't be so time consuming and wouldn't distract from the actual point, roleplay. Idea i strongly favour myself.
Idea I strongly disapprove. It's already too easy to master every craft at the same time. If crafting becomes instant and challenge-less, it becomes pointless as well. Fighting and magic are currently boring, there's really no need to destroy crafting too.
What's more, Aeghiss definitely is a crafter, and RPing while crafting is something I really appreciate as a player.
What in your opinion makes crafting "oh so cool and intresting"? Fundamentally it's just the same grindfesting as fighting. Yes, you have to chance tools and craft station. so what. It's just same timer as always. There's nothing challencing in it. Just face it.
Too easy to master every craft? Well, i can only then suggest you trying things like going outdoor or something. It's hundreds of hours of grinding to master crafts. It is easy, but hell, it consumes way more time than it should. Easy is not same as time consuming. Mechanics wise, it was never very intresting.
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The second idea is redesigning the gameplay so it wouldn't be so time consuming and wouldn't distract from the actual point, roleplay. Idea i strongly favour myself.
Perhaps I am missing something but how exactly would crafting become easier by my second idea? Nothing changes to the amount of time a player would have to spent crafting, it just changes the location where they would craft.
RPing while crafting is something I really appreciate as a player.
Furthermore my 2nd idea would increase the chance that people visit you while you craft because they know where they can find you and have an excuse for knowing how to find you, there is that shop with your name on it after all.
I'll also re-mention that the personal workshops shouldn't(in my own opinion) be a place where they can craft everything but just their main profession.
Crafting should be looked at and discussed, especially given the port to a different engine. My intent however was to provide something to improve the game(especially the RP scene) in a way that can be done now and with relative ease.
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The second idea is redesigning the gameplay so it wouldn't be so time consuming and wouldn't distract from the actual point, roleplay. Idea i strongly favour myself.
Perhaps I am missing something but how exactly would crafting become easier by my second idea? Nothing changes to the amount of time a player would have to spent crafting, it just changes the location where they would craft.
No it won't, you are not missing anything. It was my proposal to redesign crafting system, totally seperate idea. The point was that you would need to spend less time crafting to free more time for roleplaying.
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Ahh, seems I misinterpreted that sentence.
For me at least the time spent crafting isn't really time I don't want to RP, if RP comes up then I'll just RP instead of crafting (except sometimes just before the market but that is negligible).
Crafting is more there for when there is nothing to do, just like the quests most of the times. The crafting system should nevertheless be discussed and looked at.
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When it was the end times of my PS career, i rather prefered browsing internet or doing something else while waiting for RP. Actually PS was more like chat client to me back then, i just wanted to talk and see people rather than play the game, hence why i don't play anymore... nonenthless you are right, i would also suggest discussing and looking at other systems aswell. \\o//
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What in your opinion makes crafting "oh so cool and intresting"? Fundamentally it's just the same grindfesting as fighting. Yes, you have to chance tools and craft station. so what. It's just same timer as always. There's nothing challencing in it. Just face it.
Oi, don't make hasty assumptions here. I never said the crafting system is perfect as is. Still what's pleasant already ? Well, isn't the opportunity to create things enjoyable, and the possibility to learn new things and to get more possibilities over time enjoyable too ? To me it is all the more so as it's not something I can do IRL. So yeah, PS's crafting system isn't perfect and it can sometimes get boring, and that's precisely why I enjoy RPing meanwhile, so I'm not just waiting for a loading bar to get full.
Still it makes no point to have crafting become instant, unless you fundamentally change the crafting system.
As is, if you just make crafting instant, then one can become lvl 200 instant, be able to craft everything at Q300 instant, and become bored of crafting anything at all instant. You wouldn't have anything new to discover, any new recipe to discover.
Too easy to master every craft? Well, i can only then suggest you trying things like going outdoor or something. It's hundreds of hours of grinding to master crafts. It is easy, but hell, it consumes way more time than it should. Easy is not same as time consuming. Mechanics wise, it was never very intresting.
Well, I guess I wasn't clear here. Mastering a craft doesn't mean getting lvl 200. Lvl 200 is pointless currently. It could be 300 or 500 that it wouldn't be different. What I called mastering a craft here was about becoming able to craft every item related to this craft. And there's no denying this is pretty easy for most crafts.
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A few negatives, I don't like the idea of houses being made the equivalent of shops as it's almost impossible to stumble across you, it's the reason the inside of harn's blacksmith isn't usable by players to craft as you are hidden if inside.
A re-work of crafting is needed, but isn't able to happen before the move to UE4 happens.
And positives, GMs should not move the current ptersaur's as it would mess up the whole network if they did. I could add a new ptersaur to the explorers camp if people are going to use it and update the quests/KAs accordingly, not too much work. I always liked the idea of trying to get rules to set up a rogue gang moving in and trying to take it over.
It would be possible to set up a series of crafting stations at the hydlaa-east market station so people can craft and sell things, it would even be possible to make them non-useable so that they would just act as RP props which might be useful during the markets.
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I see it very differently from you, if anything it's easier to "stumble" across a specific person if they own a shop in which they spend a lot of their time. And if randomly stumbling across people is the issue you are pointing to then simply make the requirement that anyone in a shop not only needs to have their door unlocked but also have a green book on the door (and possibly red book when they are closed). If these shops would be (roughly) in the same single area then it would be even easier to find someone you can buy something specific from and you have more of an excuse to roleplay with them.
If you are going to have crafting stations there then they should work, props are nice and all but ultimately don't offer the same potentials (like freshly made foor/drinks), tailored armour etc.. Even if they are functional then they could still be used for rp. Ultimately however it doesn't get rid of the necessity of setting up the wares everytime and thereby limits what you can set up feasibly. Thus I would prefer to have actual shops.
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It would be possible to set up a series of crafting stations at the hydlaa-east market station so people can craft and sell things, it would even be possible to make them non-useable so that they would just act as RP props which might be useful during the markets.
I've suggested this before. Why can't I have a cool forge/anvil even if it's not usable?
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Seeing as no other comments were made the only problem with my second idea are that people might be annoyed at gms decision regarding closing the shops and people locking themselves inside the shops? Both of which can in my view be solved relatively easily: Firstly solving the closing shops problem by having clear rules and ultimately simply allowing for GMs to decide with possibility to object to the rest of the dev team. And Secondly solving people locking themselves in by disallowing it and requiring a sign(i.e. a green book on the door) when they are inside it. If there are any more problems that I either forgot in summary or that were not mentioned yet then I would gladly hear them.
If those are the only problems/objections then I can't see why the idea won't atleast be tried out to see if it will actually aid RP, trying it out is relatively easy and it won't have a large impact on the game if it is reversed because it ended up harming the game.
And Emaline, thank you for working on my first idea even if in the end it won't end up happening.
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And Emaline, thank you for working on my first idea even if in the end it won't end up happening.
Still working on that, just got rather busy.
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Hey, so I should say that I'm not going to support this idea for now. I have a number of reasons.
The first of these is that I don't belive that this will really improve RP, Emaline and I have been talking about where and how to set up a combined crafting area which can act as a first stop location if selling/buying and/or looking for crafters, our first choice is the market in hydlaa-east. I have already previously added a storage NPC for convenience after requests for having one for the market. Setting up a simple stall is not especially hard and making a book with pictures in which display all the items you are selling is easily produceable, once you've made it it will last basically forever. I'm not sure how many people do this but you can. I think this addition to the public area should help satify some of the requests.
Second, hiding players away in a house for long periods while they wait for people to come by to buy things, or are actually RPing, will unnecessilary remove people from visibility within the game. There are cases where this hiddenness is balanced by the benifit the location brings, guild houses or the hospital in amdenir for example, I don't think it will be the case for a shop a player essentially owns. New players who aren't aware of how doors work and what they might find beind them will be the ones that miss out the most from having people hidden away, and we can't risk having more players in houses than we must.
Third, houses should not be used to store items in. There are guild houses with LOTS of stuff in and this all serverly adversly effects the speed with which the server starts as every item in every guild house is loaded into the server memory at run time. Items should be kept in storage. I can see every shop being filled with so many items it just makes this whole thing worse, such that you probably end up with the door entry bug people experience when entering a guild house filled with 100s of items.
When the situation changes we can revisit this, perhaps with the UE4 engine move we can remake Hydlaa and have a full offical market place which can better support player shops. But for now if there are other things which can do to support merhcants, more fixed stalls, more varied props, more NPC dialogue to talk about when/where to find things like the market, more sign posts or other notices...... Let us know.
Venalan
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Thank you for the answer, I suppose we simply disagree on most points. Given that it's technically not feasible further arguments would just drag this out so I'll refrain from going into any of those point.
But that new players don't know how doors work is a completely separate but more important issue, I think that's partly due to most doors seeming/feeling like one you're able to enter. About the only thing you can currently do to distinct the two types(except when there is a signpost) is right-clicking on them and see if the options pop up. The most recognizable solution, without interfering too much with the world, would be to have "vivid" coloured and "washed out" doors. Although that may not be done easily currently it is somethign to atleast keep in mind for the UE4 version.
If you want to improve the current market I don't think you should look at supporting merchants but how to get people to sell things at the market and how to get more people to the markets. One "easy" way is if any of the GMs or (or a player coordinating with them) sells special items at the markets nearly every time (or atleast regularly instead of the very rare occasion currently), for example special purpose kitchen knives or other tools, or good quality ingredients which can't be made by players (honey and bunch of joopiner/terevan beries to name two) or specialty dishes/drinks from other levels or etc.. I understand most of the GMs quite plainly don't have the time. The market need some variability in what there is to buy because that makes more people come there just to see what there is this time.
Otherwise if you want have more merchants then you'll need enough people at the markets and have more be bought/sold. Currently I solely go to markets because usually its enjoyable, see to it that it is there and to hopefully see it flourish occasionally. From a perspective about tria it's not really that interesting except for maybe the high end practical/usable items? Even then there seems to not be that many sales nor that much Circles changing hands. If trade between players could somehow be increased then that would lead to a more flourishing market.