Besides the spiritual side of "magic" I see no real use in it. The useful spiritual side would include means of introspection which may be things like tarot or casting runes or things like that.
Personally that is more about seeing what meanings tend to be formed from something given by chance and how one interprets it and from there on about deducting why one thinks why they think it means that. That is a way in which you may be able to learn more about how you yourself think and perhaps what is behind some of your motivations.
I'm talking about exploring, experimenting and learning about shit, but people here are opposed to that sort of thing.
QuoteI'm talking about exploring, experimenting and learning about shit, but people here are opposed to that sort of thing.
Not everyone here is like that.
According to definition, that weird "magick" is "the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will". Mundane actions or rituals - doesn't matter, the latter just helping accumulate more energy to cause change according to the law of transformation of quantity into quality, so nothing really supernatural here, sorry. But to me it's only the external side of it. There is also an internal one dealing with psychology and self-exploration. People in the modern world are so obsessed with the outer world, results and goals it's disgusting. The inner psyche is infinitely greater than this tiny globe we're living on and much, much more exciting. Trust me.
However, I strongly disagree about viewing free will as an illusory predetermined choice. Who determined it? "God"? Your landlord? Humans are mortal and have no power over you except economic one, matey.
By predetermined, I mean that our choices and reasons for choosing are just the results or consequences of prior actions and events.
Free will is a myth and a lie, don't believe in it or you are lost.
It's all a matter of the mechanism, the method of action. You guys are half-way there, but so are most people.
QuoteFree will is a myth and a lie, don't believe in it or you are lost.
Ayyyyy, BF confirmed!
Summa Theologiae.
The determinism you're talking about is a little different from free will. Eventually you come to the point that there must be a first cause with no cause: "God." If you don't believe in God, you should reconsider this approach.
[...] it is impossible that something be mover and moved in the same respect and at the same time, i.e., that it move itself. Therefore, it is necessary that everything that is moved be moved by another. So, if that by which it is moved is itself also moved, it is necessary that it be moved by another, and that one by still another. But we may not proceed thus to infinity, because there would then be no primary mover, and consequently no other movers, because intermediate movers move only through the fact that they are moved by a primary mover, as the stick moves only because it is moved by the hand. Thus, we necessarily arrive at some primary mover, which is moved by nothing; and everyone understands this primary mover to be God.
[...] if there were no first in a series of efficient causes, there would be neither a last nor any intermediate causes. But if we proceed to infinity in efficient causes, there will be no first efficient cause, and thus there will be no intermediate efficient causes nor any last effect, which is plainly false. Therefore, it is necessary to posit some first efficient cause, which everyone calls God.
wow, i never realised you were so good RPer that you simply can't tell the difference between the player and the character. Way to go Mairon!
Now thought, that wasn't intended to be that serious argument, more like, a little sarcastic, srry about that.
Thats a stretch. If there was a prime mover of some sort, then who's to say it was your god or that it still exists for that matter?
There is no god but man.
There is no god but man, and Allah is their prophet.Yikes, but this has taken a turn for the inane.
I would have interpreted Marion's quote as "man invented the concept of a god" or perhaps "there is no god, you're the captain of your own ship". I didn't think he was implying that man is the over powered God of human lore."The weather or direction of the wind cannot be controlled by a sailor, but he can dexterously control his boat using the sail". That's other way thinking it.