PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Niber on June 24, 2003, 06:55:25 pm
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Often when I log in to the european server on MMORPG games (fast ping from sweden) 70% of the player are talking their native langues like Franch and Germany.. It is really a pain.
Will Planeshift have it like this too?
Is it possible to prevent this and if so will Planeshift lose alot of players?
Cuz there will be sevral Planeshift worlds in the diffrent servers, right?
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I don\'t like people doing that either... but the french aren\'t exactly the best at english... the germans are waaaay better IMO...
But you can\'t just bounce them because of their lack of english... There are a lot of french out there :)
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it might be a pain to you man, but it\'s also a pain to them when they\'re on a server where english is the primary language, you can\'t restrict it to any given language, because these games are built on a global scale, heh, I ran into someone the other day on AC that was playing from africa, very polite guy too
if it peeves you so much, become multilingual, then you can understand everyone
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the language problem is something that\'s probably unsolvable ...but there was an idea that would make this problam a bit more appealing and nicer: that would be to call these languages with other names:
- Common instead of English, since most speak it
- Denerkt instead of German
- Lyseth instead of French
- Sylyan instead of Slovene
- Tilliana instead of Italian
- ...
read this thread (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=3896&boardid=13)
p.s. for now, i didn\'t see any problems with languages. there was some german, french and italian talk in PS, but nothing really serious
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heyhey I\'m not talking about restricting french and german people,, there must be hundreds of solutions..
One would be to set up 2 servers for europe, 1 that you must speak english (or 1337 ;) ) and one where you can speak whatever you want.
Maybe I sound too pissed about this \"little thing\".. But can you blame me? I had to wait 7 month before Dark ages of Camelot got realesed before the game got realeshed with a europeon version (translated in sevral langues, for some reason scandinava must use this version to log in) and when I finally bought it for expensive money I could play that shitty game for a week then I couln\'d take it no more that a couldn\'t communicate with the people since they were all French and german..
Nowadays you can often choose to play the US server (you couldnt do that in many games) but the ping suffers then..
I would really hate to have this problem later on in Planeshift,,
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man, you\'re making a big deal out of someone excersising their basic rights as humans, if they want speak in their own native language, or any language for that matter, why shouldn\'t they. If I wanted to speak in japanese, I would learn japanese, and speak it, but I wouldn\'t expect anyone to understand me, if you wanna speak english, you can speak it, but don\'t expect anyone to understand you.
tell me, how would you feel if someone came out and said, \"I don\'t like playing with a bunch of people speaking in english, lets make a server where anyone can speak any language, and one where you can\'t speak in english\"?
it\'s the same thing as what you are saying man, no different whatsoever
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What do you want? you want Planeshift to have a rule to MAKE people talk English or something ? So much for freedom... X(
btw , not all french people are bad at english... this Guy :]
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I\'m really shocked about the intolerance you display towards non english speakers. I just have one thing to say : I live in a country most of you have and will never hear of, where _Everybody_ learns at least 4 to 5 languages because we highly depend. We do not display the complacency that is typical to big nations.
I don\'t want to flame, Niber, but I just want to make a point : I think you should blame your country\'s educational system instead of trying to impose english on most servers. Don\'t get me wrong, I love english as much as I love german or french, but I just think that all this diversity is or at least should be what we are looking for in MMORPG projects like Planeshift. Unfortunately it seems most of us dream of a fantasy world but with every comfort of modern life, without being ready to make the smallest compromises.. We are all overpampered!
Adapt! Isn\'t this the main aspect of all those games, or don\'t you wan\'t to meet new people with maybe different views....
Never forget : this is an open-source project with an openminded community, so be flexible.
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Well, my personal opinion is that you do not belong anywhere near the internet if you don\'t have some basic knowledge about the English language. But I\'m sure it\'s hard for some ppl (ie lazy frenchmen) :( Also my experiences are that a lot of Germans think the whole world can speak German, which is the language I hate most (after French :) )
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parasite, you might be a member, but you\'re also a troll. No, the internet is not JUST for those that speak english, it\'s for all people, that\'s why it\'s called the WORLDWIDE web. Anyone from anywhere can get on and get trade information IN ANY LANGUAGE. Man, you really need to grow up and realise that not everyone is exactly alike to you. Also, statements like \"lazy frenchmen\" are nationalistic and bigoted, any frenchmen is an equal to you, and in my opinion, you have just lowered yourself below any single one of them.
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Actually, the smiley next to \'lazy frenchmen\' indicated it was more a joke then a serious statement, all I\'m saying is that everyone who has the ability to do so should try and learn English. On top of that, probably 80% of the www (exept for the chinese/japanese/etc part) is English, and it\'s kinda nice to be able to communicate to other web surfers. Don\'t feel so attacked.
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I agree with Tyger.
You could totally invert the problem, now what if the \"needed language to be understable\" was french or german or whatever else?
Who would be \"lazy\"?
The smiley was a sad smiley! And everyone seems to believe in that. So please, don\'t speak like this, you remember me a dumb teen I\'ve met before.
Integrating variety of langage in RP is cool. So like in real life you\'ll perhaps needs someone to translate.
Could be a skill/guild to add in the RP system...
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You could totally invert the problem, now what if the \"needed language to be understable\" was french or german or whatever else?
Well, then I would try to learn that language?
The smiley was a sad smiley!
Sad smilies don\'t exist imo :O
Integrating variety of langage in RP is cool. So like in real life you\'ll perhaps needs someone to translate.
Yea, would be nice, only you\'d need non-existent languages like elvish, or dwarven, else every one could translate if they know the language without them having ranks or skillpoints or whatever in it.
You guys are still getting me wrong, I don\'t say you aren\'t allowed to use your own language, I am just saying that ppl should learn English next to their own language(s). It\'s quite rude to talk in your own language when people are around who can\'t understand you.
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hehe Para, you continue... ;)
\"It\'s quite rude to talk in your own language when people are around who can\'t understand you.\"
Hehe, exactly what someone not speaking english could think when ppl around are speaking eng. ;)
Yeah, for the skills it\'s right. I don\'t mean skills in fact, but just a job, and you could find some guild providing this kind of service (for money)
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Hehe, exactly what someone not speaking english could think when ppl around are speaking eng.
Well, english is not my own language ;) But English is accepted as the common language on the internet
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what is really your problem?
I mean, if someone talks to you in a language you dont understand, you can ask him to use another language. If both of you dont have common language you must search for a translator.
Or is this thread cause you cant understand what other people talking, if they use an open channel, but do not talk to you? If you want to know it, you can still ask them.
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I don\'t have any problems m8, I just stated my opinion :)
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actually come to think of it, i\'m quite happy that in PS there\'s not only english ...i like (and need) to train other languages i know :]
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stegg: In sweden we have to learn more than english and swedish so I have learned Spanish too,, but thats as far as I will go with that.
I will not learn both german and french just so I can play on european servers better,, I have much more english to learn instead.
And for almost all of the replays: Chill out! You guys act as I just said something rasist and insulted some countrys, i did not,, I simply say it\'s a problem in some MMORPGs,, so don\'t say things like human rights and freedom,,
But in Planeshift it might not be a problem after all,, if the game comes in 1-2 years and if it would be like Dark ages of camelot that 10% speaks english the connection at the time might be so high that all can chose whatever server they like..
But italians seems to be the most players in this game and it seems they are very good english talkers..
To make things clear I say this once again: It\'s only a problem when the english talkers are a complete minority,, under 50% non-englisher might not be a problem.
\\Niber
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you still haven\'t answered me, what would you do if someone said that there should be no english spoken on a given server? it would be the exact same thing
and no, a person should NOT be required to learn a language to use the internet, they just have to deal with not understanding everything that\'s said around them, just like you HAVE to deal with not understanding what they say, unless you have the gumption to learn their language.
if you want to understand them, learn their language, god, you make me wanna learn cheyenne, just to bug you
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Originally posted by tygerwilde
you still haven\'t answered me, what would you do if someone said that there should be no english spoken on a given server? it would be the exact same thing
well for now there\'s only Laanx as the only server, so the problem isn\'t there yet ...but if/when we get more servers, your question will make actually sense ...to answer you: i really don\'t know ...an european server would probably still be _mostly_ english, but i think there\'ll be a lot of different languages on it (here i would really suggest that \"in-game language names\" idea), in let\'s say southern america there\'d probably be spanish or portugal that would take over ...i wouldn\'t like to have a server that would be strictly one-language ...if you join a german server you can expect mostly german language, but if you try to play a foreigner on it, it\'s your choice, the players would probably respond to your knowledge or ignorance of their language as they would IRL ...helping or making fun or even ignoring ...that\'s RP, and i don\'t think it\'s bad
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Originally posted by tygerwilde
you still haven\'t answered me, what would you do if someone said that there should be no english spoken on a given server? it would be the exact same thing
I would go to the server that is only english! That\'s one kind of solution I think would work IF it gets a problem.
Originally posted by tygerwilde if you want to understand them, learn their language, god, you make me wanna learn cheyenne, just to bug you
Sure,, learn it! It won\'t bother me,, but if all players exept me would learn it and only speak it I would be angry *Insert angry \"smiley\" that doesn\'t seem to exist in this forum*
Please don\'t get upset by the topic.. for about a year ago I did the same topic but for MMORPG in general in the Swedish Pcgamer Forum and there everybody was atleast as tired of it as me.. It seems globaly people don\'t have the same problem..
Edit: wooohoo I have finally got rid of the Cool Newbie title!!
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Completely off-topic:
Stegg: I hope you do realize that you are talking to a swede, someone from Sweden. Sweden has one of the BEST educationalsystems in the world. Yes, it has been tested. Yes, it is scientifically proved.
Note: Im not trying to flame anyone. I just dont like when people attack another country without knowing what they are attacking.. Be good ;).
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see, if you\'ll notice, I didn\'t say anything about an english only server in my scenario, I said, one where people could speak any language, and one that was no english, how would you deal with that, you would get mad wouldn\'t you? that\'s what you\'re doing to them, only in reverse.
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IMO people could speak whatever language they like... if they need to communicate with other players that don\'t use their language, they could just use another language more commonly know like english, german or french...
there are not many people who speak danish, so I\'m glad most people are able to speak english... I am lousy at german, but better at french... but still my favourite is english, because it is the language I\'m best at...
If I meet other players on PS who are danish at some time, I would like to be able to speak danish with them... So why shouldn\'t the french be able to speak with their countrymen/women, and the germans to theirs??
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i don\'t see a problem with people talking different languages ...it\'s actually even more fun (IMO) if there\'s more languages in the game :)
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you still haven\'t answered me, what would you do if someone said that there should be no english spoken on a given server? it would be the exact same thing
Well, don\'t play there? :P
and no, a person should NOT be required to learn a language to use the internet, they just have to deal with not understanding everything that\'s said around them, just like you HAVE to deal with not understanding what they say, unless you have the gumption to learn their language.
I think they should learn the language only if they want to be able to communicate in a chatroom or in a game where the common language spoken is English. As logical as this sounds, the opposite often is true.
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hey, the fact is, they CAN communicate with people in chat rooms and games, just not with people who only speak in english, just like if you only speak english, you can\'t communicate with people, like I\'ve been saying, if you want to understand what frenchmen are saying, learn french, it\'s just as much your responsibility as it is theirs, and even more so when you\'re the one who wants to communicate.
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Originally posted by Caldazar
Stegg: I hope you do realize that you are talking to a swede, someone from Sweden. Sweden has one of the BEST educationalsystems in the world. Yes, it has been tested. Yes, it is scientifically proved.
Note: Im not trying to flame anyone. I just dont like when people attack another country without knowing what they are attacking.. Be good ;).
Cool :]
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Caldazar, I just don\'t want to make a statement about any other nation, and I\'m not here to criticize the swedish government and its educational system. I just wanted to point out that maybe its teaching of tolerance had slightly failed on some people from this thread. And as I said before I don\'t want to flame, so no names.
If you want to see what Europe could be like, without our constant nagging, watch the movie called \"L\'auberge espagnole\", 7 different nations living under one roof during an Erasmus year.
Finally, what matters most, is that we have this interesting discussion between civilized people., don\'t you think?
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man, I used to read the Conan books a lot, at one point there\'s a conversation about a politician poisoning the people to cull out the poor and weak.
Conan makes a comment something along the lines of \"they call me a barbarian, but I would rather not be civilised
that comment comes to mind whenever I see fully grown men make comments like that
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I always get a kick out of this kind of thread.
Let?s say each race gets its own language. And if they use that language and you have no ability to read it the difference between that and say French is exactly what? That is if you don?t know French.
Assuming that there will be channels available one could always have the French channel or the German channel or Swedish channel. If it really bothers you that you can?t read a particular language turn off the channel.
This game is in a very early stage of development. When this game is finally released it isn?t like you can?t just make a server for what ever player language you like. You would have to train the NPC?s to speak in whatever language you are using but that?s how it goes.
I just don?t understand what all the fuss is about.
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Tyger , I\'m just trying to explain what I wrote in my earlier posts and I don\'t think your comment about Conan is very appropriate.
Niber did express his opinion more precisely when he said that :
\"In sweden we have to learn more than english and swedish so I have learned Spanish too,, but thats as far as I will go with that.
I will not learn both german and french just so I can play on european servers better,, I have much more english to learn instead.
And for almost all of the replays: Chill out! You guys act as I just said something rasist and insulted some countrys, i did not,, I simply say it\'s a problem in some MMORPGs,, so don\'t say things like human rights and freedom\"
and I\'m ok with that. Even if his choice of words was not very lucky in his first post, I think I do understand what he means now. I\'m also coming from a \"small\" european country and I do realize that english is a federative language.
[EDIT : by the way I reread the posts from hook, Xalthar etc.. and that\'s exactly my opinion too. Nothing more, nothing less.]
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Stegg: No hard feelings, right?
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<-- agrees with stegg
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it seems strange to me that the clumsiest language in the world, with the most multiple meaning words would also be the most popular, especially since it\'s so bastardised
I wasn\'t saying anything against you stegg, it just popped into my mind, and I\'m sorry if it offended you,
honestly though I liked them when I was younger, I realise that the conan books were horrible literature.
basically, I feel offended that anyone would want to exclude people from their world because of the language that they speak. there\'s a woman down the street, runs a video store. she only speaks chinese, yet I rent from her. although I don\'t understand what she is saying, we communicate quite well, and she seems like such a dear person.
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no hard feelings.... I just got a bit cought up in all this. Finally I think I like this thread, now that everybody, including myself has come to his senses. ;-)
I must admit I\'m proud to somehow be part of this community, and as a MMORPG community is a reflection of its game, I\'m confident that Planeshift will be a reference in MMORPGs.
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I just though of something,, will Planeshift be translated?
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Nope.
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Hmm didnt read the whole of this thread, but.
IMO english just is the most common language used in the web, everyone should know at least a bit of it.
And if some ppl from the same country meet, why shouldn\'t they use their language ?
In a other thread someone complained bout the wish of someone to have a european or whatsoever guild, because of racism and the like. But see, its good for a guild if the members know each other well... and that is much easier if they speak the same language.
I\'m allways working on my english and i hate all kinds of racism, but there are some things that cannot be changed... not yet.
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Greetings, everyone!
I just stopped at this topic today, and I couldn\'t get out of it without posting my opinion. ;-)
Well, my native language isn\'t English, as you can se by my \'Location\'. I speak Portuguese as native language, which is a little bit different from Portuguese spoken in Portugal and in Angola (which have their differences between them).
You don\'t find many people that can speak Portuguese out of the countries that have it as their native languages. Assuming this, I only speak in English when playing PS just because it makes the conversation EASIER. Up to now, I met most players speaking in English and some speaking in French... and ONLY ONE speaking in Portuguese, like me. :-P
I think it\'s part of the role-playing. In Dungeons&Dragons you have lots of languages. The great Tolkien do not created only one language which is spoken in all Middle-Earth. In my opinion, it also opens a door to another job in the game: translator. Why not?
For example, I\'m very good a Portuguese (duh!) and can speak English as well, but my Spanish is very poor and I only can count from 1 to 30 in Deutsch. And now? And if I meet a player that I know he has a very important information for me, but he speaks only a dialect spoken by members of a small village in South Oceania (maximizing the problem, of course)? What should I do? It\'s role-playing! It\'s a natural obstacle imposed by a worldwide dimensions game.
When I met this guy who speaks Portuguese (as I do), only the first phrases where in Portuguese. The rest of the dialogue we spoke in private (\'/tell\'), because I know there are people who don\'t like reading mixed language things (You are reading in English and suddenly appears something in Danish in the middle of the text) and I also know there are people who don\'t care. But I respect both.
Of course I don\'t mind to... err.. \'teach\' some Portuguese to those who are interested in during the game (although I know it isn\'t the game goal), because it isn\'t simply a game: it\'s also a great community we are forming.
One last thing: I read a message (don\'t remember who post it) in this topic saying that a little percentage of the WWW isn\'t in English. Hmmm... I think he should surf a little bit more in the http://WWW. He\'ll discover tons of pages in Deutsch, in Portuguese, in French, and also (and mainly) in Spanish. Of course everybody has its own surfing habits and needs, and this is what leads more one to pages in a language than to others.
I apologize for this long e-mail, but this is what I think. And by the way this discussion was lead, I can\'t wait for the combat engine start working! Ahahah :-) :-P