PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Drilixer on July 17, 2003, 12:53:34 am
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I know the game is even pre-alpha... etc etc. but has anyone decided what will limit the skill system besides sheer difficulty? For example people talk about mages haveing to either become extremely powerful in one or two magical disciplines or become average in all the disciplines... what will limit this if there are no levels? Will it just be THAT hard to advance high level skills or will there be a max number of total skill points that one can attain.
Please don\'t flame if I asked this question too early... just post how you A: want to see it limited or better yet B: know how it WILL be limited.
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\"max number of total skill points that one can attain\" is how it\'s usaully done, so probaly something like that.
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Good question really.
This is only vaguely related, but if you have ever played A Tale In The Desert you will know a bit about the levelling system there. Basically it takes so many resources and so much time for someone to advance in one of the seven disciplines that you often find people concentrating on one branch only at a time, and it is rare, even amongst people who have been there several months, to find one master at one branch let alone advanced in more than one. I could imagine the system here being not so far different - the lower, functional levels of the magic system being attainable with moderate effort but requiring massive effort to excel in one, and godlike to excel in several.
Why advocate such a difficult levelling system? Same reason I advocate expensive items - the difficulty it takes to obtain them are their very worth. If you could purchase a Galkard in one days worth of gem hunting then why bother? And if you could become a master of all the Ways in a week the game would get very boring, very quickly...
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I agree with Ayshe; strict limits are deadends for most high level characters.
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As much as the magic skill system goes, I can tell you that you will be able to excel in more than one way... often a combination of two ways is the best for a mage.. So it won\'t be too hard to attain power through \"multi-skilling\" so to speak...
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Skill limits are BAD! very bad! Is there a limit to how good you can get at something? No. I find limits very annoying. You should be able to continue to excel in your desired field.
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aye but after like a while when your chaacter is old and \"epic\" in a sence there should be skill increase slow. dramatic slow
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Well, obviously make it so that the XP required to go to the nest level grows exponentially. We don\'t want uber dudes running around killing everyone. Newbies wouldn\'t like that.
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minor problem there... if im not mistaken there are no character levels; that is why I questioned a max number of skill points to attain.
I still like the idea of extremely difficult to attain high end skill points - for example each level in a skill requires that many skill points - to go from a level 32 backstab skill to a level 33 backstab would take 33 skill points... Going from level 1 backstab to level 2 backstab on the other hand would only take 2 skill points... meaning that as you level things slow down.
Again though - I dont know how this system is layed out so any comments from the devs or admins would be useful :(
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Ummm...I think the points should be in the hundreds. This way it gives the system more flexibility to grade the attacks. If it was a good backstab that killed in one hit and didn\'t attract any attention you get a few hundred points if it sucked, you\'ll get some points -- realistically you learn from EVERYTHING you do -- only far less.
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Jedi, for example your body can limit you in sport, even if you want to go further.
If there must be some limit, it could depend of your race or constitution, etc..
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no, I think anyone can become skillful at something, regardless of their physical attributes... the skills effect your stats though... so I think you are looking at it backwards djagg
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I agree with both of you. If you\'re a dwarf (forget the PS name) you\'re obviously not going to be able to jump very high.
However, you would be able to grow in athletics and eventually you could jump as high as anyone else. I believe that the limitations should be enforced at the beginning, but you are able to train your way out of them.
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I want you to run at 50mph/kmh (does not matter.. :) )
That\'s this kind of limit I\'m talking about, of course it\'s only for physic in this example.
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There\'s a big difference between Kilometers and Miles. ;)
Hmmm...I wish I could walk at 50 kliks. :]
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yes there\'s a big difference, but you agree that in this example it does not matter because you can\'t even run at 50kmh, it\'s impossible even with training :)
or you\'re not human... :D
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NO, I\'m not. If I recall I am an Endukai. I\'m sure they have some benefits other than really skimpy outfits.
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I don\'t tink an Enki can also run up to 50kph, but if you want I can say 200, so whatever you are, you can\'t run that fast :p !!
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actually 50 kph isn\'t impossible for humans... People can sprint in the 30 mph range I believe (which since 1 mph = 1.6 kph...)
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:( Boo me then. I can only run about 25 kmph. Well actually that was a few years ago. I haven\'t done sprinting for a while. Maybe I\'ll time myself again just for kicks.
Oh well, that\'s why I play games. I can do so much more than I could in real life. :D
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hehe, I race bicycles - 60 kmph sprinting on a level surface:)
I run every other day - just to remind myself how much I hate it and why I am a cyclist.
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World record is 36.55kph
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haha, I had the \'30s\' right - but hey like I said I\'m not a fan of running
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ok that got off topic: People post here how you think the skill system should be balanced to keep people from learning every skill like in Morrowind
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Morrowind is the best example of good skilling. You only get good at what you practice. Pretty deep philosophy there, eh?
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Morrowind is good yes... but Morrowind is extremely easy if you powergame - I have more than a couple characters that started the game off one way but ended up maxing every attribute and skill - that is why I started this thread - to better understand how Planeshift will stop that from happening
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Gradually losing unused skills I suggest, but only to a point 90-6 months later-30.
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Yes, that\'s a good idea. After all if you don\'t do something for a while you eventually start sucking at it.
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but it wouldnt matter if you could get it back quickly
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Well, realistically, if you\'ve done something before it comes back to you faster.
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I don\'t think there should be levels, because it\'s kind of stoopid when you get one xp and suddenly become twice as powerful. I just think that skill points should get harder to attain the more you have, or maybe they become harder to attain because there is no longer anything challenging enough to give you skill points, e.g. You train climbing a certain 10ft high wall, until eventually you become good enough to climb it, but then you can climb it easily, so you no longer get skill points for climbing it. So you have to find something bigger to climb.
Oh, and in connection with that 36kph world record, I saw on the teevee that if you could run 30 mph (or 60 - not sure) you could run on water like that lizard.
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That\'s if you didn\'t weigh very much.
Good point with the xp. Although I think you should still get minimal points for it, because every time you climb the wall you get a bit better. You\'ll never be perfect at it.
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i have a friend who plays a game called lineage (sp?)
there basicly is not limit to your level because no has goten beyond lvl 80, even playing for years.
i would like to see something like this, but with higher numbers.
i agree with no limit to skill lvl, gives people somthing to deam about.
God bless,
-en3r0
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well heres a way i can see
A skill point buy system, you can work up an \"xp bar and when that bar is \"filled\" !ding! :)) one skill point, now your \"consider\" could be based on the sum of total skill points and what not. as you progress it gets harder and harder to get skill ups, there wouldn\'t be no cap but at a certain point the xp drops dramaticly, say 200 points, you would have to get 3 times what you would have had to get and 300 would be 4 times, etc
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Well, if they don\'t include character levels, then they probably need a system somehow similar to morrowind.
-use a skill X times to increase that skill. X will get higher when your skill increases.
-buy skills for X cash. X will get higher when your skill increases.
How fast X will rise, is an other point.
Usually, you will have a \"soft\" upper limit - you can allways raise your skill farther, but it takes AGES if you are allready extremely good in it.
I don\'t like that soft limit beeing to low.
As someone said:
Newbie firemage: yipee, i managed to ignite a torch!
Ancient powergamer firemage: so, what continent shall i turn to lava this afternoon?
With a limited PK system, it would be cool to be able to have a few ultra-power chars in game, chars who can fight 5 dragons with a toothpick, get kicked by their network while the fight, log-in again half an hour later to find their
char still alive...
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Clavyn the money idea was used in Morrowind in the form of Trainers - but it was so unbalanced that most people (that I know) who play Morrowind consider that A: a bug B: a glitch: or C: something close to an in game cheatcode -. point being that although the idea might work, it is hard to balance since all ways to get money would have to beexamined in such a system...
If we used such a system skills points would have to be EXTREMELY expencive
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There is no point in skill cap, just make the skill increases slower and slower so in the end the characters raise level after very long time. So there actually _is_ a soft limit but there are still differences in skill of the most powerfull.
There might be limit for the sume of all skill points together - you can raise a skill but loose another.
I did not like this level-by-using system in Morrowind. I was a mage and when I wanted to learn mysticism or something I just created spell \"spawn skeleton for 5 seconds\". And then, while traveling to places, spawning masses of skeletons around me. Where is the fun in pushing buttons ? Where is the balance ? PS is open source so you could easily modify the client to cast spells automatically, for hours. Let your computer running for a few days and you are an uberwizard. Skills must be earned while doing something that is not easy, like during fight.
Btw if you had enough money to pay for all your training in Morrowind, then you could just as easily buy a few enchanted rings with 100 damage and go kick this Dagoth Ur dude\'s back - THIS is what was too easy in Morrowind. I had no incentive to learn more Destruction when I could deliver 100 damage, 15 times, with 100% reliability. I leveled in Enchanting mostly ;-)
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enchanting was one of the most unbalanced aspects of morrowind :) it is possible to make sets of CLOTHING in that game to reach 100% resisist physical damage or magick...
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I\'m sorry this is so long, but PLEASE read the whole thing I think it is a great idea.
Maybe there should be a \'main\' storyline created to Planeshift so that characters cannot go above certain total number of skill points until they have completed certain parts of this linear main quest line throughout the world... for example ->
Part one of the \'main quest line\' is held in the starting town and geared towards new characters (we cant say low level since there are no levels). The new character can go out and kill things/earn skill points as much as he wats and his skill points will be stacked up and he could possibly reach a number going to infinite skill points killing things whatever, BUT he can only distribute a small number of them since he has not started the main quest... so he does the first part of the quest line and unlocks the ability to distribute a number of skill points (RECOGNIZE that the quests arnt giving skill points or experience they simply unlock the ability to use skill points, since afterall it doesnt matter how points you have stored away if you cant use them).
Our Faithful adventurer is tipped onto another city where some sort of service is needed, etc etc. He goes to this city and has by this time built up a healthy stock of skill points that he wants to use so he does the next line in the quest and unlocks the ability to allocate alot more points...
Understandably, this system does have a limit since the devs cannot create unlimited quests... but the quests will unlock a few skill points at first and slowly unoock more and more depending on the difficulty and distance into the main storyline. The quests should also get increasingly harder (not because the NPCs who give them only react to phrases in Chinese like a certain NPC that was recently added...) but because of high level locks, monsters, etc etc that are encountered during it.