PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: kyp14 on July 22, 2003, 03:30:36 am
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One thing I want to see in PS is collison Dectection this would allow for raindrops to splash when they hit the ground and when you having a converstation with somone, no one decides he wants to talk to the NPC as well and seeing your in the way having your conversatino walks straight through instead of just walking around to the other side
I know this would lead to stupid people standing in door ways and not letting people in places but this could be easily fixed by having a push command where the offending player would be pushed over and you can just walk straight over him
The other thing I would like to see is Dynamic Shadows and Bumpmapping I not sure if its out yet but the new Crystal Space renderer supports this and it looks damn nice and it would make PS be on par with the very latest of next generation games
(http://crystal.sourceforge.net/drupal/scrshots/ppl_barrels2.jpg)
(http://crystal.sourceforge.net/drupal/scrshots/bumps.jpg)
some screenshots from the crystal Space website
http://crystal.sourceforge.net/
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hey awesome! can we put bumps on our character\'s head?
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This is certainly in the plan, hopefully for CB but definitely for the release after.
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ok so I\'m starting to get this now - the game\'s engine is being develloped by another open source community and our PS devs are incorporating what they create into their game model while they work on PS - or are they participating both ways?
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Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!
You\'re our lucky winner!
This is exactly how it works. Sometimes the PS devs work on CS directly, but we try to avoid it.
- Venge
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hehe, why try to avoid it? not as fun as PS?
From the look of the CS screenshots gallery they seem rather excited at the prospects for Planeshift
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wow PS is really going to be one sexy beast :D and I heard one player say when I was online
This games graphics suck they\'llnever sell this game
what a foolish man or boy or woman girl or whoever it is.
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hehe, we better never SELL this game
newbs... gotta love \'em
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aye, true where would a MMORPG without overly stupid newbs it just wouldn\'t be right with out them :D
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what would the Links of the world do? Have you ever thought about this - could Link survive without Noobs to laugh at? to what extent does Link NEED the newbies to keep himself going?
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Yes and of course when you implement all of this it will be able to be toggled in the graphic options. He he he, I fear graphics too good, coz\' I know I won\'t be able to handle them <).
Of course as soon as I have a good video card I\'m sure I\'ll be all for Fresnel Pixel-Shaded Reflective Dynamic Water Systems and such in the game. And yes, I have no idea if what I just said makes any sense; probably not.
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what would the Links of the world do? Have you ever thought about this - could Link survive without Noobs to laugh at? to what extent does Link NEED the newbies to keep himself going?
who knows who knows its one of those questions you can\'t answer
I\'ll be all for Fresnel Pixel-Shaded Reflective Dynamic Water Systems and such in the game. And yes, I have no idea if what I just said makes any sense; probably not.
well it sounds damn technical so i\'m all for it
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Collision detection will need to be applied in some places but not others.
For raindrops to strike players/surfaces - sure.
Player to player collision detection is big nono for MMORPGs though. Try \"/push\"ing your way through 40 people standing around in an alleyway trying to auction-off rubbishy items to each other.
Being pushed flat on your face would become a frequent phenomenon as you stop for a moment in a door or hall. People would have to do it because stopping and saying \"excuse me kind kran, please step aside\" would just get plain inefficient :D
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no I *humbly* disagree -we need collision detection for players. I dont like walking through other characters. And walking through monsters during battles is just as annoying.
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Hey Kyp!
Crystal Space doesn\'t support Bump-mapping yet, That screen is from NR (New renderer) and will be out next year.
MB uses OR (Old renderer) yet but hopefully NR to CB. Aldo I doubt the timeline will hold since NR comes out when CB is planed for relese and it will take time to change renderer (well not exactly change but it will be a big step).
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Originally posted by Drilixer
no I *humbly* disagree -we need collision detection for players. I dont like walking through other characters. And walking through monsters during battles is just as annoying.
I agree.
Wolves and such should be able to realistically tackle you.
Oh, and not to mention... 50 gnolls should not be able to occupy the same space at the same time as it is in that joke of game, everquest.
Also, If there were a bunch of players packed in an area, I should be able to [just by moving forward] shove my way through the entire group in no time at all.
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Collide with enemies, yes of course. Players no though, or if you are immobile you can get moved out of the way very easy. I mean otherwise people could set up a wall to block someone from getting somewhere... he he he, that would be pretty cool actually. But with the potential for lag and stuff, it really isn\'t a good idea, that is gonna use up a lot more resources I\'d think to do player to player collision with any sort of realism. It just not enought to make it worth it, like this stupid NPC system they are so insistent on.
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Aye, I agree collision detection between combatants is a good idea. You want to be able to press hard-up against you enemy and slash them with a knife, without risk of lunging straight through them and waving your weapon in thin air. Also 50 [insert monsters here] should occupy space, block your way, and not be able to all stand in one spot together.
However I maintain that player to player collision detection in towns etc. is not practical. You want to be able to move freely around the city without a crowd in a silly place getting in your way. Realistic \"jostling\" through a crowd would be impractical to implement and could be detrimental to the fun and freedom of the game.
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Explain the impracticality of \"jostling\" through a crowd.
I do see your point. Crowds can be a nuisance. But allowing 50 players to occupy the same space is simply poor game design, whatever the intentions.
The only acceptable solution is to allow walking/running through crowds with other players glancing off your shoulders. This will also allow a wonderful way for people to annoy each other.
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If a player is immobile they should be easily pushed out of the way, but if they are moving they shouldn\'t, so if someone goes off to make a cuppa they don\'t block up a doorway.
About the rain, the super-cool rain effect in metal gear solid 2 was done by having two models for all the buildings and characters, a rain one and a dry one. Rather than waste processing power by calculating the collision detection of the thousands of raindrops, simply make a different model that would appear as if rain was bouncing off it. When it started raining, the game would use this model set instead.
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That\'s a great optimisation concept for rain contact :)
Originally posted by Abemore
Explain the impracticality of \"jostling\" through a crowd.
I see two possibilties of \'jostling\'. One where the players would be momentarily displaced or \'bumped\' by passing players, and the second where your char is actually moved out of the way by a character walking through them.
It would take a lot of extra bandwidth and code optimisation to implement these with all the extra data it would involve.
The \'moved out of the way\' possibility also has the added danger of griefing via players being knocked of ledges/walkways and having to walk all the way back up again, or even dieing when/if fall-damage is implemented.
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Well, one of the developers of the new renderer said, that it will be ready in June, 2003. Well, according to this, don\'t expect it to be out in the next few months.
The greater problem is, that there are many other open-source LGPL 3D engines out there, which already support a lot of neat features, like vertex and fragment programs, environment mapping, realtime shadows, etc. They already support these for at least half a year, so Crystal Space is a bit slow here. Some of these engines are neoengine, tenebrae, sylphis3d, ogre (no shadows for this one though). They are all cross-platform too BTW. I just hope CS devs won\'t make the release date of the \"new renderer\" too late, as then it might come out titled as another \"old renderer\".
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Greetings,
E.
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Originally posted by Havena
I see two possibilties of \'jostling\'. One where the players would be momentarily displaced or \'bumped\' by passing players, and the second where your char is actually moved out of the way by a character walking through them.
ok, lets do the first one. So they will be momentarily displaced then return to their original position. So no griefing by pushing off ledges.
It would take a lot of extra bandwidth and code optimisation to implement these with all the extra data it would involve.
are you on crack? you are, aren\'t you? ya crazy crackhead. :)
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elminster, those other engines don\'t seem to have a lot of game developers using them. CrystalSpace has a huge list. This must say something about the quality. (p.s. I like OGRE\'s design philosophy)
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I like the idea of colission of players, monsters, but I dont like the pushing idea.
lets say you are standing on a cliff, or bridge, or doing something important like a quest and somebody runs through you and you bounch to a side, falling off and dying. that don\'t sound like fun.
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I like the idea of colission of players, monsters, but I dont like the pushing idea.lets say you are standing on a cliff, or bridge, or doing something important like a quest and somebody runs through you and you bounch to a side, falling off and dying. that don\'t sound like fun.
well you would design it so according to where you are differrnet things would happen
A crowed alleyway your player would push through the crowd with his hands and other characters in the way automatically step out of the way and then step back as you walk past
somone in a door way would have an animation where the player trying to get through pulls them out of the way your player walks through and then they step back to where they were
If your near say a cliff or dangerous area eg lava pits the player your trying to get past will simply step out of the way your player walks through and then they step back
The push command doesn\'t need to be literally a push
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i have to say this about the shadows... get rid of them!!! if there is anything that works your card more its shadows since they basicaly come from everything... or maybe there should be an option to turn them off :)
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How bout\' let\'s just run the whole game using the ASCII renderer and call it done!
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Originally posted by Terro
i have to say this about the shadows... get rid of them!!! if there is anything that works your card more its shadows since they basicaly come from everything... or maybe there should be an option to turn them off :)
they should certainly be in the game with the ability to turn them off - of course shadows arnt the only thing which are fun but should be able to be turned off - rain and snow are two great examples of graphics that are fun at first but if the player\'s computer isn\'t up to par should be possible to be turned off
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lol my god, just imagine running through a crowd, ppl would get hit aside or step aside and then the person who got hit aside would make the person behind him get hit aside or step aside then the person who just got hit aside would make the next person behind him jump out of his way or get hit aside, then ud have the people who now have to step aside or get hit aside to aviod that person, and before u know it there will be one huge dominos effect coming out like a wave in the crowd lol. Now times that by 20 because other ppl would be doing the same thing as u, trying to get out. Man out THAT would be something to see. anyway the point to this little story if u didnt get it already is that pushing would be a bad idea, altho to make it realistic u could always have say u walk into someone and they\'ll just move there shoulder automaticly or they\'ll get hit and just get shuved side ways, not actuly moving tho, then again ud have ppl\'s charactors have spastic attcks coz there would be like 20 ppl around them in a crowd lol. All in all, player collision is a no no.
P.S. maybe some time in the future when collision in computer games r a bit more smarter it\'ll happen tho.
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well as far as I knew if you pushed somone in a large corwd there would be a domino effect but yeh your right unless PS has a physics engine like Half Life 2 it wouldn\'t look that great
as for the shadows they should defintelly be in there you should just be able to turn them oof
same with bumpmapping and vertex and pixel shading
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u dont need half-life 2 phyics to have one big wave of jumping and fallback animations going on do u hehe, anyway the point is, its pointless to have collision detection on players.
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well thenn why have a push command? If levels are properly designed in a nonlinear fashionn there wont be any problem with pc collision detection and I have faith that our devsare capable of creating proper levels.
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just out of curiosity, how do other 3D MMO games deal with player-to-player collision detection?
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I don\'t remember because it\'s been so long but i think you can walk through people in EQ... but I hate that game so...
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yep u can just walk through ppl, which i might add is a good thing since i can recall running through alot of people in main areas of the citys, it would be hell trying to weave my through the crowds
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I do hate walking through people it ruins the atmosphere eg you enter the world the grass is flowing everyone and everything has acurate shadows the water reflects you acuratley biuldings look great in the sunset everything looks real :] ..........and then somone runs through you :(
If they could put it in, in away where you could jostle through a crowd proply that would be great if they can\'t oh well I can live with it
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I don\'t think the crowds will ever be as serious a problem as you guys think - as long as cities are designed with ample space to walk around etc etc we should be fine
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Don\'t be so sure all it takes is one annoying person blocking the entrance to a building. Say the one place where the guy you need to talk to about a quest is.
you either need noclip for the characters or you need some way to move them out of the way. Because someone WILL try to block access sometime if its possible to. People do stuff like that you just gotta plan on it.
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*grumble* I like collision detection and that\'s that! I still dont think crowding will be a huge problem, a limited bump command could be created to move individuals - but the domino effect in crowds would have to be fixed
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well we will see what happens won\'t we just wait watch and pray/wish/whatever you do
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Originally posted by kyp14
well we will see what happens won\'t we just wait watch and pray/wish/whatever you do
complain :D
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errrrrrr ummmmmmm ahhhhh errrrrr .................... I guess we could do that too :p