PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Drilixer on July 23, 2003, 01:24:53 am
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Why are undead discriminated against in most fantasy games!!! When was the last time you met a friendly zombie??? Or a cultured skelton!!! I don\'t think we should ALLOW Planeshift to be like all those other games out there with their debonaire heros and damsels in distress!!!
I propose that there be several undead player characters! :) There are already roughly demonic PC races! When will the MAN allow the DEAD MAN to have some fun!
Here is a small list of possible character classes that I would love to see/play in the game:
Skeletons -> why do skeletons have to suck in every game? Let People roleplay them for once!
Wraiths -> Ethereal Characters with some crazy lighting effects *joy*
Zombies -> alright so maybe your slow!!! but you got a wild right hook!
Ghosts -> basically the same thing as wraiths - but less lighting effects :P
And from a roleplay standpoint it makes perfect sense - who said that when Vodul directed the races of the world to Ylikum that he sent them top quality races the entire time! Heck, I wouldn\'t want to throw my minions into a stalagmite! I think this should get you guys thinking - as always Dev responses are always appreciated :D
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That would be a good idea, however, all of the \"monsters\" you named each have their own strengths. For example, it\'s impossible to hit a ghost with a sword, and it\'s impossible to kill a zombie, as he ressurects every time. It would not be fair to give PC such advantages. If they\'ll put in those \"monsters\", they\'ll have to remove their advantages, and that wouldn\'t be fun.
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\"Why isn\'t there any \'friendly\' undead\" you ask?
Well...
Skeletons are totally mindless animated corpses that are summoned by a necromancer.
Those dead pile of bones just do what they are \"programmed\" to do, like to fight for their master, guard a treasure etc.
They have no mind of their own, and they have no common sense at all.
They never eat, they never sleep, they don\'t \"think\".
They can\'t gain XP since they have no memory, they cant speak, they do exactly what their master has commanded them to do, so I see no point in playing as a skeleton.
A friendly Zombie? Impossible, since they just walk around making gargling sounds and try to eat everything and everyone they see.
Play as a wraith? Sure, if you\'re not much for talking this would be a good choice.
Ghosts are lost souls that tries to find peace. For example they must take revenge on the person who killed them, make sure that somebody finds the place where they were buried etc.
Not the most exciting race to play as if you ask me.
That\'s the reason why undead is discriminated in most fantasy-games. They have too uninteresting roles.
I would love to see the ability to play as a monster though :)
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Originally posted by Fanomatic2000
\"Why isn\'t there any \'friendly\' undead\" you ask?
Well...
Skeletons are totally mindless animated corpses that are summoned by a necromancer.
Those dead pile of bones just do what they are \"programmed\" to do, like to fight for their master, guard a treasure etc.
They have no mind of their own, and they have no common sense at all.
They never eat, they never sleep, they don\'t \"think\".
They can\'t gain XP since they have no memory, they cant speak, they do exactly what their master has commanded them to do, so I see no point in playing as a skeleton.
A friendly Zombie? Impossible, since they just walk around making gargling sounds and try to eat everything and everyone they see.
Play as a wraith? Sure, if you\'re not much for talking this would be a good choice.
Ghosts are lost souls that tries to find peace. For example they must take revenge on the person who killed them, make sure that somebody finds the place where they were buried etc.
Not the most exciting race to play as if you ask me.
That\'s the reason why undead is discriminated in most fantasy-games. They have too uninteresting roles.
I would love to see the ability to play as a monster though :)
THIS is exactly the kind of discrimination the undead must deal with everywhere! This is wrong! Don\'t you people realize that NONE OF THESE THINGS EXIST!!!!! Lets be creative for once; the undead can be however we want them to be - when Vodul routed the races t Yliakum maybe we sent a couple underworld populations there... that\'s just as far fetched as the current migration idea. If you\'ve ever played War Craft 3 you will know that there is no reson undead cant be balanced and fun to play!
Additional fun to play race: lich
On not being able to use special abilities of the undead such as physical weapon resistance... why not? Krans are resistant to magic and alot of other special things!
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look at wc3 and take all the undead roles from there.
well, one could be a necromancer, I know I would.
Yeah, you are right about sceletons, ghosts and wraiths, they are pretty bad characters, but you have so much more in udead world. you got dreadlords, pit lords, lichs , dragons, abominations, banshees, or necros.
yeah, the undead definately would be a great addition to a game, but you will have to be giving them another side of PS another words splitting ps in two, evil and good cause I don\'t see how undead could be good.
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haha, sashok! what about the diablois? I have never seen such carefree demonic creatures in my life as a gamer... they just breath evil! alright maybe skeletons and dracozombies are a bit much... but what about those shafts that people have been throwing dead bodies down? Maybe there is an underworld for undead down there...
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What I was describing was the undead according to the D&D rules, but of course that doesn\'t limit anything.
Since this is a fantasy game there is nothing saying that things shall be in a certain way. There is nothing saying that a skeleton should be like this or that.
just look at Murray in Monkey island 3 (even if talking skeletons with Megalomania is a little over the limit in this case. ;) )
Dragons? I assume you mean bone-dragons *looks superior*
yeah, the undead definately would be a great addition to a game, but you will have to be giving them another side of PS another words splitting ps in two, evil and good cause I don\'t see how undead could be good.
The Necromancer in Diablo 2 was \"good\" (I\'m not sure if he was undead though)
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Or zombies, for that matter. They may stilll retain their brains, whether naturally, though unlikely, or unaturally. Their ability to re-rise from the dead will make thing sinteresting... Actually, I\'m thinking of anothe rgame, here, but that game, though not a RPG, had bone dragons and undead heroes.
I personally like the idea of PCs being able to play as the Undead, but they may have to deal with severe discrimination. They just can\'t walk in a tavern and order a pint of ale (if they can drink it) without scaring everybody. Unless their disguised. Still, playing as Undead will create a whole new style of gameplay, though I\'m thinking of the disguises there.
A problem that I see is that I think that there are already many races in the game, and where the Undead would start ingame. I don\'t think that people would enjoy being next-door neighbors with a zombie of unusualy intellect and fighting skils. Especially with the fighting skills. That will only enhance the unique gameplay, though...
Oh yeah, and I\'m not sure if centuries of cooperation will make a living creatures not shudder when they see a not-so-live race playing cards with them. Of course, the Kran could probably be best buddies with the Undead, for various reasons... But of course, the Unead we\'re talking about could probably be a \'good yet ugly\' type of Undead...
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exactly fanomatic, necros could be good characters, no doubt about that, although they will still have evil spells like raising dead from the ground, but who\'s to say that its more evil than other spells.
but like I said, I don\'t see how it\'s possible to combine all rases in undead and put them next to races in ps.
I say if that\'s done, the planet should be split in half. It would be great, as you can have two completely different atmospheres, evil and good. you could have spies, infiltrations, evil turning good and joining other side, or the other way. it could be very a lot of funnnn.
but that wouldn\'t be PS too much.
and yes, diablois, that\'s some weird ass race. they should be discriminated against :)
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I dont think there has to be a split - I\'m just asking for a couple undead races to complement the diablois and Kran - I mean if you can have mineral and demonic - why not undead?
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what if later one could be magicly imbued, maybe for increased life or such, one skill in the dark or azure way could thus be a lich of sorts, or a skeleton of a raised warrior, though this would be unbalancing due to the fact that, theroticly you cant kill undead just immobilize them for a time
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hehe - well i hope this game IS NOT hardcore - we will all be respawning right... no one wants to be undead when they respawn so... I would think that undead be able to respawn isnt such a problem. You should also remember other classic \'undead curses\' healing magic and spells from party members would HURT them... and 100% healing magic is instant death to an undead character - there are many balancing issues already instituted with undead characters - if anyone would like this idea we should brood on refining it and then submit it to the devs
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A necromancer has an image of a nearly dead person, which isn\'t really dead ;)
Its advantages: poison magic and possibility to summon creatures.
Disadvantages: low constitution (low life level and strength level)
Weapons: staffs and daggers
If a PC finds a dagger, it wouldn\'t be very useful to him.
For a dagger with a poison spell on it it can be really dangerous. Several summoned creatures could protect him.
A necro without his magic would be a very weak char, but several called skelletons could ballance this char again.
Thats the undead.
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How high is zombies\' charisma and intelligence?
Zombies want to eat. They are so dumb that the can`\'t hold a weapon or use magic.
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Skelletons have a veeeeeeery low constitution. One hit and they lose bones.
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The ghosts have a really big prob: they cannot touch anything in the real world. They may be scary, but they are not dangerous. And no-clip function would be really ugly.
Have fun ;)
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Don\'t forget you are in PS world, wich has his own rules.
When someone die, he pass through the dark realm (I\'m not sure it\'s the right name ;) ) to the surface.
So what is an undead if finally you don\'t really die but you can stay prisoner in this second hell world.
But what is interesting in your idea is not to use the zombie ghost and such like in other games.
An interesting things could be undead of every available race, so undead dwarves, elves, etc.. (except Kran perhaps..?). They could be some kind of ghost yes, simply because they can\'t go in the other world.
And the more they stay on living world the more they become ugly. Of course it brings special attributes like you said (but could be new compared to other games).
I see them as NPC, cause actually PC races are defined well.
But, I agree with you Drilixer, of course we could have friendly undead. They could be the (good) guardians of some ancient city.
It\'s also where the ghost who have a goal are interested, could made some nice quest.
I\'m not sure about what I\'ve said on this \"dark realms\" perhaps it\'s a bit different...
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Not sure if it\'s been said before, but there could be a magically beautified undead race, like vampires. That would be pretty cool. They\'d be kinda like albino humans with higher magic ability. Might not fit PS but if it did it would be cool.
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Ok it has nothing to see with undeads but i d like to see some PS Semi-DoppleGangers (CF AD&D):
They could turn into every human sized other races (dermorian, xacha, ylians, etc) and take advantage of every other races\'s skills. It would be fun to roleplay, it would also help for quests and stuff like that.
Of course there could be many bad sides to such a race:
- They could be considered as dangerous because many of them used their skills to betray / kill some people, so they could be hunted in some cities (if discovered, of course).
- They would lose some HP every time they turn into another race AND staying that form. (They would need to rest at least 6 hours per day on their normal form).
-Their real form could be revealed by some high divination spells or magic items.
Just a thought...
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Gee, that would be cheap wouldn\'t it?
Hmm...what race should I be? How about ALL OF THE ABOVE?!!?
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Originally posted by Ravencrowe
They\'d be kinda like albino humans with higher magic ability.
I just realized this description fits the Xacha, at least to some extent...Nevermind, then.
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hmm, I\'ve turned againt my own thread here - undead are too typecasted to ever be used as a pc race - they would always be met with skepticism by D&D players who just cant get the fact that undead and living coexist and that undead have brains beaten into their thick-headed selves
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i dunno much about the lore of this game, but unead would be real good add on to this game
there could be an undead starter city underneath hlauu or w/e that place is called the only exit would be a well leading up to hlauu or w/e
the city wouldnt exacly be a city but a little place for the undeadto get their stuff, the well would lead down into a kinda cavern that is directly underneath a graveyard (wich would be outside of that hlauu city) the cavern is just a place witha few skeleton/undead merchants with no buildings , it would add a nice effect if the cavern had holes from the top of the cavern and the graveyard with some light shining down into the cavern, undead would be able to climb up and down the we
some ideas on abilitys
all undead cannot die period. but they can be incapacitated for a short while, wich causes them to take the effects of dying, but they stay where they are for a short period of time until their health regenerates to a suffictiant lvl, then they will be able to move again
Skeleton: can run silently and cannot be heard, has all abilities of a rouge,resistance to most magic and poison
Zombie: is rather slow, has malus on intellegance, but every attack has a poison potential
Necro: is a kinda, undead healer, since any haelth potions are damaging to undead, he uses dark magic to heal fellow undead, or hurt enemies, can raise undead from incapacitated state, incapacitation does not apply to necros(grim reaper is a kinda necro, so i beleive necros should be able to use sythes)
Wraith: is a magic user, uses offensive magic to destroy enemies, most physical weapons cant hurt them. has a malus to magic resistance/enchanted items
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Originally posted by Sinflare
i dunno much about the lore of this game, but unead would be real good add on to this game
there could be an undead starter city underneath hlauu or w/e that place is called the only exit would be a well leading up to hlauu or w/e
the city wouldnt exacly be a city but a little place for the undeadto get their stuff, the well would lead down into a kinda cavern that is directly underneath a graveyard (wich would be outside of that hlauu city) the cavern is just a place witha few skeleton/undead merchants with no buildings , it would add a nice effect if the cavern had holes from the top of the cavern and the graveyard with some light shining down into the cavern, undead would be able to climb up and down the we
some ideas on abilitys
all undead cannot die period. but they can be incapacitated for a short while, wich causes them to take the effects of dying, but they stay where they are for a short period of time until their health regenerates to a suffictiant lvl, then they will be able to move again
Skeleton: can run silently and cannot be heard, has all abilities of a rouge,resistance to most magic and poison
Zombie: is rather slow, has malus on intellegance, but every attack has a poison potential
Necro: is a kinda, undead healer, since any haelth potions are damaging to undead, he uses dark magic to heal fellow undead, or hurt enemies, can raise undead from incapacitated state, incapacitation does not apply to necros(grim reaper is a kinda necro, so i beleive necros should be able to use sythes)
Wraith: is a magic user, uses offensive magic to destroy enemies, most physical weapons cant hurt them. has a malus to magic resistance/enchanted items
you guys... necromancers arent usually undead... they deal with undead. Although necros can be undead (if they are unlucky) they are actually a class... not a race.
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I would like for planeshift to allow powerful (evil) mages to change into Liches when they attain great power...! I\'ve so-far only encoutered one series of game where you could become such.. Might and Magic..
But I know that a lot of extra work of modelling, balancing etc. etc. would be added, but Character race templates are really something I\'ve been searching for in a game..
In havena\'s story my character is even described as something I would call undead (perhaps even a lich)
There are a LOT of issues concerning players being able to play as undead (in morrowind almost no one would talk to you if you became a vampire, and a lich looks a bit more \"undead-like\" than a vampire) so I don\'t think that acceptance would be granted easily in human communities (but since the persons twisted enough to willingly become liches don\'t care much about acceptance)....
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physical changes to a character after quests would be fun... make a nice way to see who did what uber evil or holy quests
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you guys... necromancers arent usually undead... they deal with undead. Although necros can be undead (if they are unlucky) they are actually a class... not a race.
ur right, but i beleive necros should be highly discriminated much like undead races, and it probly would be best as a class, (that would be cool, a skeleton necro)
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hmmm, how do u do that quote thing???
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actually you need to learn to quote and edit your own posts... racking up on double postas since you cant edit isnt really acceptable ;) To Edit: click the edit button at the top right of your posts. To Quote: click on the quote button at the top right of other people\'s posts
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what about vampires
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Vampirism seem more like a disease than a race to me :P
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Vampires are in a sense a \"race\" but their state is also a disease condition..
Oh, and to the guy that said something about skeleton necromancers... They are usually called \"Liches\" :P
And necromancers are actually VERY lucky if they succeed in becoming liches, since it is a very difficult process. But the reward is great! Immortality (well that doesn\'t really matter in mmorpg\'s :P) and immense magical abilities!
I must admit that if such a chance presents itself for my character in PS I wouldn\'t wait two seconds before taking it ;)
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permanent status/look changes such as vampirism, lycanthropy, and [becoming] a lich are good ideas. But they would certainly need to be earned via a quest or some sort of complex ritual. Although if you become such a thing don\'t expect free PvP from then on, because the devs would never add such an obvious PKing loophole. You would have to be the world\'s friendliest Lich, Vampire, or Werewolf.