PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Captainbreakdance on August 01, 2003, 02:05:26 am
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Somebody said something about taking an ore from the ore pile and using it on the hammer.What do they mean by that?
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I think they were refering to an earlier version of Roonskape, Captain. Obviously it won\'t be like that in ps. (At least when it\'s finished)
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w all now there will be smithing - but has there been any official word this early on how the smithing/mining system is to be set up? The everquest system of \'putting 9000000000 uselesss things in 9000000000 useless boxes and creating 10000000000 items that no one wants\' is desperately in need of a face lift!
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You mean it should look like a little bit on, the-game-that-shall-not-be-named?
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of course not - but Planeshift needs something innovative, because all te current systems are dulll and not really worth the effort
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I never played the \"you know what game\" but I like the crafting in AC2, but I hope PS comes with something totally new.
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Actually, said game isn\'t as bad as it\'s made out to be. After all it\'s (semi-)free, and it\'s running in java. (They always forget that.) But it\'s a little confusing when you first start.
edit:\"(semi-)free\" I said, you can still play without paying, but it is limited a bit.
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You gotta pay for the damn game-that-shall-not-be-named, i was miner 007, you probebly heard of me, and my pall Leader 007.
I played it for 2 years damnit, all wastet now becouse of that damn membership.
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No it isnt, when 3D comes out there gonna delete the free version!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :\'(
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we are talking bout the smithing, remember :)
so, my proposal
1. you mine material, (or melt something)
2. you buy/find recipe (for weapon/armor)
3. you smith it - the quality, of the item depends on your skill
things to remember here:
-you need ore or metal, which you can get from mining or from melting things
- you need recipes (which you can buy/stel/learn-from-somene-who-knows-them; you can store them is some kind of recipe book)
-you need places to smith
-you need the quality system (items have quality and ore should have it as well; ore quality affects the product quality as much as smything skill does)
-you need smithing skill
now you only need to calculate the oreQuality+skill=smithingSucces/itemQuality and you have the Perfect smithing system -this is what i think :)
korr
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as long as you can hire pack mules to go on mining trips with you I\'ll be happy - I hate having to walk back and forth between those damned far off caves and your office :)
And oh yeah - breakable pickaxes are in every game changing that nuisance would be a plus :) maybe higher quality/metal pickaxes would simply be more effective at mining instead of being stronger.
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How do you want it to be more effective? Maybe a hatch opens up when you have the Uber L33t Sk1llz H4xx0r Mining Thingy +5 and a few thousand small pickaxes comes flying out to help you mine? ... Well, umm... No? :)
A pickaxe made from simple iron is due to break some day, as long as you use it enough, yet a pickaxe made of X9-Titanium III Super Metal just takes a great deal longer to break than the simple iron pickaxe... You get my point? :)
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...*slaps forhead* wow why didn\'t i think of that before! Oh wait a minute thats what ever single game out there has to limit the mining trade... Alright first of all I never said anything about Uber Picks. And about some being more effective than others: that should be obvious when mining with say a diamond tipped pick instead of an iron axe you could possibly: 1. wield more ore 2. mine more accurately 3. acquire more skill as you mine - etc. etc. Anything but durability - that just gets monotonous since every game uses that system. If you look at the difficulty curves associated by either system - the durability or the rewards that I want you will see that they both decrease exponentially in difficulty as you go from low end picks to high quality picks - making either system viable, but at least my idea is more original and less annoying.
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Why don\'t they insert a NPC that could be the all around smithy like in D2 ( hoping thats not the game-not-to-be-named). I have always found that useful. Example: Go mine your stuff and then like in Chrono Cross the smithy assembles them for you (including a modest fee.)
Is that good enough for an idea or am I way out there?
Thomas
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Ur way out there. Theese ppl want to smith themselves, not have stuff smithed for them. I like the idea of better pickaxes mining better.
Btw, Mr. Bob runescape is roonskape or runesc@pe
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the reason it is called the game that shall not made is because alot of players used to play it... and then after some minor problems came here and were still flamingly furious over it... the word is now a curse word on this forum... try to post it as Rune_Scape (minus the space between the two words and see what happens)
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A simple question then... HOW would you want a diamond tipped pick axe to be able to strike more accurately or wield more ore? I mean, you can only get an amount of ore, depending on how hard you hit the rock, not because your pickaxe has diamonds on it. Please.. :P Unless, of course, your pickaxe uses a diamond-based hitting machine add-on. Then I suppose it\'d be more accurate.
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actually the material is very important to how much ore you wield since (for example) diamond is so much stronger than other materials. I never mentioned going into how much force you are putting into the blow - but obviously tha would be a measure of the character\'s strength and have nothing to do with the pick.
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I don\'t get the point of all this speculating. Your ability to mine a certain amount of minerals should be based on your abilities and stats. I mean a miner with amazing strength is bound to wield more minerals than a teachers with amazing intelligence.
Yours truly,
Thomas
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yeap, we are just discussing how the picks could be dealt with - gronomists last post touched on the strength attribute of mining though
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Well, if the point is: Why would I need a better pickaxe?
a) A better pickaxe lets me mine more effectively, without any doubt, think of making a tunnel with a coffespoon or with a pickaxe, or with some dwarf-made-tools to make tunnels. So, the tool always affect your effectivity.
b) Maybe you need some quality on your tools to make some action, I say, I wouldn\'t cross the Cloudy Ocean on a canoa, neither do I try to mine Black Iron with a pickaxe made of something that cannot break that kind of rock.
c) Maybe the only purpose of getting a dwarf hammer to go mining some special ore and go towards the goal of making himself his own great sword could be part of a player-driven quest
Osgroth
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good idea - only certain picks work against certain ores - and possibly there could be a master pick axes (that can mine anything) which only master smiths can make
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Hey pretty interesting idea there Drilixer. But then you have to take this into account how do you become master smith? Experience? Skills? A mix of both?
Thomas
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that would come with experience of course, and through experience you can place more \'points\' into your mining skill. From what I habe heard I believe that is how Planeshift is going to work in that department.
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yep the runescape mining/smithing system was very tidious and boring. People started to use hacks because of the long hours of bordem just smithing/mining.
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I\'m still worried about hacks and cheating for this system... but I\'m just pessimistic sometimes... I have faith in our devs though :)
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i like the eve/swg way of mining/making things (with still keeping it unique of corse)
1: I servey the land for ore, find a nice spot in a cave or sumtin
2:grab ur tool, whether that be a pick axe, or a shovel or w/e (the better the tool the faster you mine per sec.)
3:once u gather ur ore (different ore will have different wieght) carry it back to ur little set up (it must have a anvil and a u must equip a hammer and tongs)a good idea would be to use a donkey or a pack animal of somekind, for realy big jobs u might have to hire some ppl (wich i think a caravan full of ore would be nice for a bandit raid or sumtin :)~ )
4:select wich thing to make(based on wut u stuff u know how to make, u can learn it by watching other ppl make it or by reading books \\ the laerning will be on a percentage kinda value, like u watch a guy make something u get 30% learned, the next time u watch him make the same thing u might have 60% learned, books will be 1 shot kindaa stuff but would be more rare, for harder items it will take longer to learn)
5:once u make it u can tinker with it, adding more points to stuff like, magic resistance, ect. (u have more points to spend on tinkering based on ur smithing lvl) but there is a chance that \'tinkering\' can fail, of corse, depending on ur skills
(this will make for some diversed items, u can sell it like\"steel armor, all magic resistant, non fighter spec\" i think this would be quite interesting)
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if only mining was that simple IRL :P
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Blacksmithing is something that have always been very interested in. Not from the perspective of doing it in a game but actual blacksmithing. I been fascinated by blacksmithing through time in respect to what time period did what kind of blacksmithing.
What kind of ore that is used has a lot to do with what time period you are talking about. What was used was magnetite. It wasn?t until later that people got the idea that really red earth meant iron. Another form of steel was from meteorites however that?s extremely rare and probably not available underground. Most ore refinement done today is in a crucible. A crucible is a large bucket made of ceramic heated until the steal is in a liquid state. This makes it easy to make steel in large quantities. Crucible steel was invented in the Renaissance period In Europe. Timewise that would be after plane shift.
Before that time the iron was placed in a hot furnace, melted down, and then the furnace cooled. What came out of the furnace kind of looked like a tangled mess of iron with a myriad of other things in it. In order to turn it into steel it had to be folded and a pounded repeatedly. They were trying to remove or excess silicon and other impurities. This process took some time. The second problem was then to add carbon. Because once the steel was pounded out the right amount had to be added back to make proper steel. This is one of the reasons why steel was so expensive back then.
One of the ways they combated the high cost of steel was to use very little of it. For instance, in a steel ax actually only the edge was steel. The rest of it was mild steel or normal iron. A wood chisel built would have only the edge and a strip going back that would be tool steel the rest of it would be mild steel once again.
An interesting fact is that smelting, or getting the steel from ore, is a different occupation than blacksmithing. Different enough to be split up early on in history. Making an anvil, which is the most important blacksmith tool, is never made by a blacksmith. It?s made by somebody who specializes in making anvils. Making arms and armor isn?t done by blacksmith at all. It?s done by an armorer. Shoeing horses is done by a farrier. Farriers also doubled as veterinarians. This isn?t to say that there are not some crossovers were one would do the job of two however they were split up. Each occupation required different tool sets and different skill sets.
So what does a blacksmith do? His primary job is making tools. They generally know how to shoe a horse. They?re great at making decorative ironwork and house fixtures and generally repairing broken things. In the old days they were kind of the ultimate handyman. Surprisingly sharpening things is called white smithing, which is something blacksmiths probably know quite well. However to make a Japanese sword the person who made the sword and the person who sharpens the sword are two entirely different people. They don?t even work in the same shop.
It isn?t surprising that metalworking split up into many facets early on. As I look into it old ironworking is actually quite complicated.
I always get a kick out of some of the threads that I?ve seen. For instance gold armor or silver armor is better than steel armor. Even though they?re considered precious metals compared to steel they cut like butter and are seriously heavy. I also get a kick out of Platinum being used. How an iron age culture gets their hands on a modern metal I will never know. Next thing you know somebody will say titanium armor is what?s really great. However I digress.
I hope this post frames the thoughts for discussion. One thing I highly recommend is to actually go find a blacksmith. Yes, they still exist. In this day and age many of them are artists that used iron as their medium. They?re usually very happy when somebody shows an interest in their craft and will explain all kinds of cool things that they do and how they do them. Just remember when they?re working there are two kinds of blacksmiths, those who wear hats and those who are bald. Use the safety equipment or stay away.
I can go on and on about this subject all night however I think I should stop now.
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He\'s got a point there, why would you buy any weapon/armor made of silver or gold other than to hang it on your wall? I wouldn\'t worry about titanium fish, I think everybody knows it\'s an alloy (I think :P)
I\'ll admit I\'ve only ever seen a blacksmith twice.
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Titanium is an element. And alloy is two metals mixed together. Titanium is usually mixed with aluminum to make the titanium aluminum alloy. Steel mixed with chromium is what makes stainless steel.
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I knew I was wrong, of course, all I ever hear is \"titanium alloy\". I learned something today! :)
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I don\'t think we should use the usual element... we are ina giant stalagmiote for god\'s sake!! we should create different \'elements\' (maybe not even elements...) to be mined... shards from the different magical ways are a possibility etc etc
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Drilixer I totally agree. However sometimes in coming up with brand new ideas it?s good to explore what has been done. Saying that you have a new metal that his mind somewhere would be really cool. It might even take special techniques to use it. In fact being able to mine a particular metal maybe some areas claim to fame.
For instance, even though I?m not try to bust on ever quest, most every kind of smithing they do requires a mold. In fact that?s not smithing at all it?s called casting. Steel frying pans are cast. It?s called cast iron. In blacksmithing there are no mold at all, really just forms that the Smith pound things around. So the concept of needing a cast to make a knife is preposterous. Knives are pounded out on an anvil.
By knowing some of the basics smithing could be a really cool occupation.
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I agree completely - molds are not smithing and for weapons etc etc are not allways the best way to go at things due to the lack of structural integrity - molds are good for some things but for large items are a \'no no\'
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Sorry just to contradict you but molds actually work quite well for very large things. Many large bronze statues used molds. Smithing a very large object is a different matter. He has to put it in the fire than you actually have the lift that metal onto an anvil. Could you imagine trying to do that with a 300 lb. chunk of burning hot metal? In fact anvils are mostly cast. In the old days the top plate was the only thing made out of proper steel. The top plate had to be welded onto the top of the cast anvil for nice working surface by heating up both sides red-hot and slamming them together with quite a bit of force( several smith?s with sledgehammers). Sparks fly everywhere. If you ever get to see this it?s a pretty dramatic event. If it?s a big item the smith needs help.
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*grumbling* sorry, I\'m afraid my only knowledge with molds is of the rickety ole 13th century cannons :P
Anyways - I dislike molds in games because they are annoying - beat that reasoning!