PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Kuiper7986 on October 14, 2003, 02:07:44 am
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I think there should be a tax for buying stuff from a market or store and selling stuff to a market or store. You should pay monthly tax for owning a house or living area. You should be taxed for crossing borders to different terroritories. You should be taxed for riding an animal. You should pay a monthly tax for owning a guild. Taxes should vary between terroritories.
Tax, tax, tax; tax is a good thing. There should be taxation to keep money flowing from place to place. It prevents rich people from monopolizing everything and it reduces prices of items from a market or store. Taxes help expand cities by adding new buildings or nicer looking areas. ALso lets say the Devs made an event that a horde of monsters was going to attack the city your in. Then the amount of tax money our city has is how many NPC soldiers the city can hire to make our lives easier.
Opinions would be nice, even if you pissed off at the idea, I wanna hear them.
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I could imagine dominating fractions would demand tax on entering city\'s and stuf for there \"service\".
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Originally posted by kronon
I could imagine dominating fractions would demand tax on entering city\'s and stuf for there \"service\".
I agree with you, but NO monthly taxes for owning a house or a guild. What if you\'re gone on a holiday for a month or two or have some other reason not to be able to play, you\'d lose all your many to taxes.
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I would refuse to pay any tax, and kill anyone who tryed to make me pay it. Tax is one of the more unpleasent things in life, I don\'t want it to be in planeshift as well.
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No taxes. People blackmailing each other, that\'s another story.
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For once - I can\'t believe I\'m saying this - I agree with Xordan. I will not pay any taxes to the government (except maybe when entering or leaving a city). The guilds will most likely all be charging taxes on their member anyway, so government taxes would make it even harder for people.
And Kuiper, why are you asking for taxes?!
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How European of you, Kuiper... ;-)
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I?m not in favor of townships taxing people to enter the city, but sales rights (open up a shop) and buildings will need a tax, grounds fee, maintenance fee ?..of some type.
If not the place will be littered with empty shells of old guild houses as guilds fold, or as they become irrelevant. Prime locations will be littered with hovel guildhouses when major guilds want to move in.
With this concept, I would have no problem with guilds having some way to tax their members to get these fees?how, I would like enough of these options to be left to guilds that it is an issue for guilds to figure out how they do it.
Just my point of view.
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Fees for owning player buildings is a given. But taxes in general don\'t do much good, since I don\'t think NPCs have much use for money. Of course theoretically they could be made too... but I\'m against having power in the hands of NPCs as much as possible.
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Even though I want to open up my own shop, I also agree that taxation of rented/owned buildings should be implemented. As mentioned before, it will allow the people who use their buildings to keep them, and keep others from buying a house and never using it.
As for sales tax...I\'m still unsure. Obviously trades among players would not be enforced, but for people running shops it might be necessary. Again, there are reasons for it IRL, but in game NPC\'s don\'t need the money. So is it just one of those features we want to implement because that\'s how it is IRL, or is there an actual use for it (like the ideas above of the richer cities having more guards, etc.)? I remember there was a thread on player/guild owned cities, in which case a sales tax could be implemented so that the mayor could build additional structures. This is the only reason I could see for it at this time.
More to come (maybe :D )...
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If theres gonna be a tax, it shouldn\'t be some automated process. The NPC\'s should have to work to enforce it. You gotta base stuff around real life. (You know, you get inspected, and fined if you don\'t keep accurate records...) I mean, why should a black market dealer be paying taxes?
As for who assigns taxes, well, money has to come from somewhere, so the taxes depend on the town.
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Okay maybe no township, item, or terroritory taxes but at minimal I\'m still very pro for housing and player building project taxes. It shouldn\'t be easy to make or rent a house. It\'s more of a priviledge than a right. No one guarentees you the right to live in a house, but you are given the priviledge to. It\'s not fair if a house is 1000 tria and that person owns it forever. If he doesn\'t pay he should give it up.
Nikech you said:
I agree with you, but NO monthly taxes for owning a house or a guild. What if you\'re gone on a holiday for a month or two or have some other reason not to be able to play, you\'d lose all your many to taxes.
Then you should send a message or email to the Dev\'s or whoever is in charge at that time, and tell them you\'ll be gone. You can try to reach an agreement with them like, increase the tax you pay for your house for the first few months after you get back from your vacation or pay in advance. Which brings me to my next point, what if someone left the game and never came back yet he owns a house. Well it isn\'t fair that he gets to keep his house there, maybe someone wants that land. Then there\'s no way for anyone to get that land because someone\'s house is there, even if taht owner\'s house quit the game.
Xordan you said:
I would refuse to pay any tax, and kill anyone who tryed to make me pay it. Tax is one of the more unpleasent things in life, I don\'t want it to be in planeshift as well.
Your being very conservative, taxes help schools and state infrastructure. Where\'s the state government going to get the money to fix freeways, roads, and clean pollution in our oceans? Planeshift should have taxes because it would allow players to play a more vital role in the game because in the game if they\'re paying taxes, then in return they should get more say about what can be done to improve Planeshift (in-game) I mean.
As for guild taxes the guild can do whatever they want. if they don\'t want their members to pay taxes that\'s there problem. But there should be a tax for even owning a guild because owning a guild symbolizes that your have more authority in Planeshift than a player by himself.
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If you are leaving the game for a while, rent out the house.
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Tax...tax....
Well, the part of taxing someone for ownig a house is fine, although, the feeing part SHOULDN\'T be dev responsabiliti, the player could like, go to a goverment house (npc...) and pay there, he could also pay in advance, so if the person goes on vacation, he has it already paid. Or there could be a agreement on the delay on the payment of two months, for example, after that the house is removed from the player, or he pays a increased tax to compensate the two months (a lot) so this way, in two months the house would be clear for another buyer, or would be payed and in use for the original buyer. Dunno, just ideas....
Also, the army idea is quite nice, after all, the cities DO depend on the taxes. The bigger the traffic, the lower the taxes and the biggest the armies. Even because, cities could wage war against cities, that would be nice hehe >=)
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ya that\'s what I\'m trying to say, specifically for owning houses or property.
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I was going to post what ForteX said: have an NPC that you can arrange your payment schedule, so you can pay ahead of time or whatever. Good thinking! :D
I mean, why should a black market dealer be paying taxes?
They wouldn\'t. Most of the taxation has to do with property and sales; so taxes are put upon buying/leasing a plot of land and/or housing, and upon goods sold from a *registered* city shop. Any player trading doesn\'t have to go through taxes. The same goes for the NPC in your guild basement; as long as the government doesn\'t know about it, it won\'t be taxed. ;)
My 150th post, yay! 8)
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No, taxes should stay between guild and guild-members. Guilds often build towns and can tax their members if they want to, but taxes for owning a house? No way! If you\'ve bought it or built it, it\'s yours.
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You sound so... American... Fanomatic. If you want to completely own the house which you\'ve built, you should first buy the land on which to build the house (that means no house in the city limits). Then you should also get the materials, and you should pay the builders as well. That could easily be many many money, so... Well, that\'s just your problem, I suppose. :P
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It would be cool to have npc guards, like in might & magic. Where they bash all that they don\'t like (This could be you). I attacked a guard once, haven\'t tried that again for a long while;)
:Edit: Just struck my mind that this could be a good idea for people who want safe places (*pointing to the make monsters stronger in some areas while guild members don\'t get attacked by them idea*). Ofcourse you could use them as guards if we would have castles or such.
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And say what if, you don\'t pay the tax? The devs delete u\'r account and u have to start again?
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Originally posted by Xordan
And say what if, you don\'t pay the tax? The devs delete u\'r account and u have to start again?
nice thinking :P ;)
if you don\'t pay taxes then you lose your stuff (like house)
Furthermore you might and up being hunted by city guards.
simple :]
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ahh, so clever. No newbie will be able or want to pay the tax. So we get no players!!!! How brilliant can you get! :D
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Originally posted by Xordan
ahh, so clever. No newbie will be able or want to pay the tax. So we get no players!!!! How brilliant can you get! :D
well it isn\'t THAT clever, since it\'s obvious ;) :P
anyways, why would newbie need to pay taxes?
Normally newbies don\'t start with houses, do they? ;)
Now about tax for entering city: should be taken only for merchant goods yer carrying. Also for transport you are using.
Toll-gates would be nice too :)
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Taxes!!
Property = Good
Income = Bad
Guild = If they want to
Merchandise = Good if sold from PC shop or Stall (Private Sales Bad)
City Entry Tolls:
Personal: Good if limited to certain trunk routes
Merchandise: Good (Could be combined with customs?)
Right I think thats all of them. As for tolls for entering a city, I think I\'ll avoid using the gate and climb over the wall instead. HeHe :D
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So basically u can never own anything, u always have to pay rent. I agree with tolls for city entery, the more dangerous the zone the higher the toll.
But for housing and items? bad bad bad
hmm, maybe for housing u either pay 1 big amount, or pay lots of \'rent\'.
I think I\'ll just have to go noob bashing to raise the money I need. :D
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hmm...this calls for a new skill to be put in if this does: Tax Evasion
I will be the best!
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Isgrimnur, I agree with you on all points; looks like a good layout to me :)
But Xordan, why higher toll for dangerous places? Shouldn\'t you be paying more to get into a city with lots of guards and towers and such rather than one where there are no guards to pay?
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Look nobody says you have to buy a house. If you don\'t want to pay for a house or property tax, then don\'t buy a house. In a way the house you are given is a piece of the game. The Dev\'s allow you to own a small portion of the game when you think about it, it\'s only fair that some sort of tax is fringed upon.
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lol, the more dangerous the area, the more u have to pay for them to open their gate and lower the defence.
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Ahhhh, gotcha :)
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Taxes suck,i hate them, noooo taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by Gronomist You sound so... American... Fanomatic. If you want to completely own the house which you\'ve built, you should first buy the land on which to build the house (that means no house in the city limits). Then you should also get the materials, and you should pay the builders as well. That could easily be many many money, so... Well, that\'s just your problem, I suppose.
American!? ARGH! The ultimate insult! ;)
Yes, if an organisation owns the ground you\'ve built on they should be able to tax you, but if nobody happens to own the ground you\'ve discovered and built on, then why should you pay any taxes? And to who?
BTW. Gahd blaess da waild west!:P
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There is no reason for taxing. If the devs need something they just make it appear in the inventory. And as for buying a house and not using it, you should first recieve a notice and then they should sell it and give you the money.
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i hate taxes but ti would make sense for having to pay monthley for ownning a house ...... :O
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the way i see it is there should be only taxes if you built/bought a house ON city grounds OFF city grounds there is no need to tax you because who is, some dumb creatures? as for sales tax it should be implemented but not much, i mean i wouldn\'t wanna pay an extra 20 tria just because the town needs it, it should be about 2-4 tria, just to make it relistic OR have 1 large monthly tax, so at the end of the month you go to the nearest city and pay 20-40 tria, if you refuse to pay it just adds up, then if you dont pay the 5th time your cash will be automaticly drawn out
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In any way, we shouldn\'t ask the dev\'s to do administrative crap related to in-game infrastructure. It will end up as a lot of daily work, which requires time, which requires money. We want to keep this free don\'t we? It should be able to run itself. Without any outside non-in-game interferance.
Just my 2 cents.
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Uhh? Taxes? Lets go back to discussing Pvk PvP....that\'s alot less potentially stressing. :(
Besides, there would be a difference between a Tax and Rent for your house or something, which would make infastructure alot less hassling for the Devs. A sort of bank database which would keep track of an owned house, or a rented castle.
Please, no taxation, that\'s one aspect of reality that I just find annoying. The IRS suck, I would hate to have the PIRS, since I would go postal... ;(
Besides, if you have taxation, why not go all the way and have a member\'s fee for guilds? And a guild tax, and a lag slipping tax, or edge grabbing tax, or better yet, a dying tax, or a lag tax.....::crickets::....when I mention the lag tax no one argues, eh? ;)
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I like the idea of the property tax, but none of the others. This I think will prevent people from coming in, buying a house, then when they want a nicer house say \"Should I sell my old house? Nah I have plenty of money.\" Then just leave his old house sitting unused. If you don\'t want to pay rent, don\'t buy a house. And if houses are supposed to be for those with a lot of money, having property tax will prevent everyone from buying a house the very moment they have enough money to buy one. As far as housing outside city limits, I would hate to step outside town then see hundreds of abandoned shacks because there is no regulation for building houses.
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Originally posted by Melbourne
As far as housing outside city limits, I would hate to step outside town then see hundreds of abandoned shacks because there is no regulation for building houses.
Only the richest would be able to afford building their own house. I doubt there will be hundreds of them and I also doubt they will abandon them so easily. And I can\'t think of any regulations outside a city. It will be more dangerous there after all.
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Property tax is sensible within the boundaries (say, walls) of a city, township, or large estate. How else are the rulers to generate revenue? I think sales taxes are a little too much beauracracy for a \"medieval\" type economy, but perhaps levies would be charged on certain types of things? (Restricted magic, poisons & whatnot).
The tax burden doesn\'t have to be phenomenal, but I think adds a good economic force to the game - the need to maintain property. (By \"good\" I mean a force that will drive the game in a dynamic or interesting way)
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id like the idea of taxes look guys it helps the game play !
it stops inflation of items when the game gets too popular
no one like it when you start a new acc and you just ound out that the cheep newbie practice sword which can be bought for 10 bucks is now inflated to 1000 bucks !
so to do the tax thing sucessfully we need to have player run goverments and banks investing and spending on welfare and stuff
this adds to more fun and who would\'nt want to be the head huncho of a town or city ?