PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kiva on October 20, 2003, 03:06:47 pm
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Moogy - If you think this thread belongs elsewhere, by all means move it. :)
Magic in PlaneShift is an open discussion, as them pesky developers won\'t share anything with us about it, thus leaving us to dream and wonder, and this being why this thing has come to my mind.
Click\'n\'Boom:
What is Click\'n\'Boom? Well, CnB, alias PnP (Point\'n\'Press), is the Diablo style spellcasting, where one can simply learn a new spell, assign it to a hotkey, and fire away, as long as the casters mana reservers allow such ruthless waste of spells. Very simple system, thus very boring, and definately not worthy of any MMORPG, yet it still happens that some games use this system. *Sigh*
Memorization & Incantations:
The memorization system removes the need for mana, and slightly enforces the spellcasters to think of what they have available, before jumping headlong into battle, however the small amounts of spells one is able to memorize in games such as Baldurs Gate, and the like, are not nearly enough, should the system be used in a MMORPG, as it is not possible to simply click the rest-for-8-hours button, and refresh ones spells.
In a skill-based MMORPG, the memorization system \'might\' be a disadvantage, as one might need to slay many foes to increase skills, and if one simply doesn\'t have enough spells to do such, \"too bad\" some would say, yet others would tend to say \"FOOCK DIZ GAME SUXX0RZ! FOOK U N00BS!!\", leaving us to read their foul words, however the Diablo-style C\'n\'B system would still be unworthy for a game such as PlaneShift, no matter how unfair it all is.
Incantations written by players to cast spells, add several great aspects to the game, and I\'ll try and give some examples to some of the following:
- Languages
- Enchanted Items
- Personal Spellbooks
It is known to me, that Ultima Online (www.uo.com) has incantations, however they are not playerwritten, and appear as you target a spell. If players were to type in the incantations instead of just keeping an in-game spellbook, it would increase roleplaying, and it would be fun as well. Imaging standing in the middle of nowhere, meeting a giant blob, and you suddenly can\'t find your papers with incantations. It could happen to anyone, and would simply make you want to find your papers and keep them close to you all the time, or at least make you prepare properly before you venture out into the world. \"Yes, that is all very nice, but what about the websites telling people all the incantations?\" Of course there are websites who would love to publish the DragonSlay VII spell, but who says the person who has come to know of this spell actually wants to give it away? Who says he\'s not some greedy old grump, who kill the dragons himself, and keeps all the loot? I would, if I was to have such a spell, that\'s for sure. Besides, using incantations would surely bring some use to Jayose\'s library besides quests, as it might suddenly be possible to borrow a book, containing a spell that noone else has noticed. :)
Now for some of the examples listed above.
Languages:
By using written incantations, it allows the creation of magical languages. While studying to become the wizard number one, you may slowly learn the full contents of this magical language, enabling you to try out incantations that you make up, simply in hope of suddenly encountering a new and powerful spell, however if one has no skill in magic uses, and simply types one useless incantation after another, one might someday find a spell that leaves the caster without body, accidently killing someone, making the guards come for you, and so forth. Only bad things come from being ignorant and inexperienced.
As mentioned earlier, Ultima Online (www.uo.com) uses a magical language. An example: \"Vas Flam Por\". This means somewhat like \"Great Flame - Movement\", and results in a fireball. Besides, having such a language makes it possible to keep curious eyes of silly warriors from reading your spellbooks, scrolls and such.
Enchanted Items:
Imagine being able to magically enchant your own items, not having to lean upon the items made by developers only. \"Yes, well, I have this flaming blade spell, wont it do?\" Of course, making a blade catch fire is a nice enchantment, but is it really necessary to create a different spell for each enchantment? What if it was possible to cast an enchantment spell, and simply target another spell on an item of the users choice, and this item suddenly held one/many charges of this spell? Imagine owning your simple clothing, however this clothing is not as simple as it looks. It makes the wearer able to cast a protective shield which deflects spells, and makes the wearer able to jump very high and change direction in the air a certain amount of times. That is surely something which would make living fun, however enchanting items isn\'t for everyone to do, yet it leaves some ideas for a profession, aye? :D
Personal Spellbooks:
\"Monday
It\'s close, and I can feel it., yet this stupid incantation still has no effect!\"
\"Lakah calloth nohran -
waheth niltrod elebra.\"
\"It still won\'t work, no matter what I do. All I\'ve got from it so far, was a shining ball of light, that vanished after few seconds. I\'m going to look in some of my masters books, now he\'s gone.\"
\"Tuesday
I think I\'ve got it right this time, and I\'m just about to try the new incantation. It goes:\"
\"Lakahre callon nohran -
thener waheth nilit elebra.\"
...
\"This spellbook belonged to Garnath the apprentice, and was found among the rubbles of his masters tower, when he returned later the same week.\"
Such spellbooks could both be fun to read and write, yet I fear they would do no good if there was nothing to learn from them...
Anyways, this is where my thread ends, and I personally believe it leaves many things to be discussed, so go ahead and talk about the thread - Click\'n\'Boom Vs. Roleplay & Incantations.
:)
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i\'d go for the roleplay & incantations,
it\'s way more fun to do and you really can figure out your own spells and have to give your time and effort for it.
the click\'n\'boom is to simple thus newbies can play like crazy and get powerfull spells because the play alot.
so they might overpower the hard working but doing things in his othertime players.
if you need to learn it it is a process in time and not in speed you play thus making it more interesting.
offcourse this is al my oppinion.
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I like your oppinion. It\'s just like mine. :D Never been much of a powergamer myself, even though I sometimes find myself playing 8+ hours a day. I suppose I just like to take the time I need, not rush it. Probably why I learn more than most powergamers, I simply take time to learn stuff and get it all right, instead of redoing my characters two, maybe three times.
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i really like this too, but alas i beleive the devs are well at completion with the magic system. we have no idea what it will be like so this idea isn\'t out of the game yet.
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we will see but the idea Gronomist gave us is really a good plan and if it is possible to work it out we really have a RL emulation here you need to study before you know something instead of experience based.
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We could mix them for example you would have to type for a flying purple hippo spell (don?t ask) Wuv and lets say you could do that spell at lv 2 when you get to lv 20 you would just have to type a key so that would reduce on newbies doing it do you get my idea if you don?t I mean weaker spells as you get stronger only require a letter which would make it easier for high lv characters to for example do a simple levitation spell without typing aloth rinlach lonach all the time they would just type L or something like that. What do you think or is it to hard to implement.
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don\'t think so but it might be a bit hard i\'d rather use 2 keys for a spell making it not too easy but easier to memorize
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Roleplay & Incantations sounds perfect for PlaneShift, considering the system the developers have used for NPC interaction... why not take that word recognition system a step further and create such a wonderful casting system with it too?
Great thread Grono. :) I had fun reading your ideas. You must\'ve spent a long time detailing your thoughts on this.
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Well, I can say that I\'ve spent a lot of hours on making up ideas when I wasn\'t able to sleep, Moogy, and I spent 3 hours in school re-writing the ideas into a useful thread, so you could say I\'ve been thinking about what I\'ve been doing. Not that I have anything better to spend my time with, though. :P
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Mmmm... the only problem I see is that you speak faster than you type (i.e. it wouldn\'t be quite as realistic as you think, timing wise, and it would be unfair to slow typers). I think that after you cast the spell for the first time you should be able to hotkey it or use something along the lines of a web browser\'s autofill that fills out the rest of the text after you type the first couple letters. Anyway, my 2 cents on it. I do like this idea over the old point and click...
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What about us who are slow Typers and Bad spellers hmmm.
Edit: I wanna work a spell but i am not good at typing while looking at screen, i am too late and get bl;asted to pieces or mauled by something large. my point is it is a Great system, just dont go overboard with it. It would be a deadly weapon once Fine tuned and Flawless.
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Saying the spells is nice, but I don\'t think it\'s fair to those that can\'t type really fast. Moreover though, there are just better ways to do it, this isn\'t a MUD, we shouldn\'t have to type what we do. An incantation system that was more like a mini-game where you have to draw a symbol with your mouse, hit a few randomly generated keys in sequence, or something like that. Your effectiveness in the mini-game type sequence would affect the spell to an extent, but you should be able to cast the spell with nominal efficiency regardless. The difficulty of the mini-game can also be relative to your proficiency with the spell Way, and the power of the spell, so spells become easier to use more powerfully as you grow.
However, some people are adamantly against such things, so there still should always be an option for click-boom, but it doesn\'t have the capacity for casting spells with bonus type profciency.
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I don\'t like it.
I do not want to type /whosawhachamachallit every time I have to cast a spell. I realize I am not being suportive of your out of the box thinking, but before people start to turn PS into a slash command fest, I want to squash the idea.
Computer games are repetative by there very nature, but are fun because of things like graphics, sound efects, joysticks, mice, hotkeys, macros, point and click, drag and drop, pop-up menus, drop down lists, and emote buttons.
With your system I might go insane enought to start typing in caps and numbers.
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I\'m actually quite surprised that no one remembers this thread (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=3624&boardid=11&styleid=3). *gives Grono a funny look* ;)
Anyhow, my two tria (EDIT: is it \'tria\' or \'trias\'?):
Originally posted by Xandria
I, too, find this idea very interesting. It seems like in some games, wizards can be really powerful with spells like area of affect and ranged spells. For instance, a fighter encounters 5 enemies, and he has to engage them all individually (or maybe with some special multi-attack), and even an experienced character can take a little while to fight them off. An experienced mage would just press a couple keys to select the right spell and *boom* all the enemies are dead.
If you had a system where you had to use words to cast spells, it could balance out game difficulty a little bit. Of course, the spell book is a great idea, but it should be limited in some ways. A great way to do it might be that it could only hold a maximum number of *words*. So players would have to choose whether they wanted to store, say, 10 easier spells, or 3 really complicated, but powerful, spells. It sure would add a lot of strategy!
It would also be great, because then you wouldn\'t have all these high level mages running around casting the same spell, because it\'s the best in the game. And with a word based system, you can be ready for anything. You\'d likely have some spells that would be good against everything, but there should be some words that are very specific.
So say you\'re walking along and you notice some goblins coming toward you. Now you\'ve got a decent spell lined up in your book, but since it\'ll take a little while for them to get to you, you can cook up something extra special. So you think of some good words that correspond to some goblin-effective magic, and you cast a really cool spell that does maximum damage.
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Originally posted by Wedge
Saying the spells is nice, but I don\'t think it\'s fair to those that can\'t type really fast. Moreover though, there are just better ways to do it, this isn\'t a MUD, we shouldn\'t have to type what we do. An incantation system that was more like a mini-game where you have to draw a symbol with your mouse, hit a few randomly generated keys in sequence, or something like that. Your effectiveness in the mini-game type sequence would affect the spell to an extent, but you should be able to cast the spell with nominal efficiency regardless. The difficulty of the mini-game can also be relative to your proficiency with the spell Way, and the power of the spell, so spells become easier to use more powerfully as you grow.
However, some people are adamantly against such things, so there still should always be an option for click-boom, but it doesn\'t have the capacity for casting spells with bonus type profciency.
Yes! Gesture Recognition Technology! That would be SWEET! :D
Can our devvies code something like that though? I\'d love to draw a fire symbol on the ground and have the spell come to life and burn stuff. :)
GRT was developed by Lionhead Studios... wonder if they\'d let anyone else use the idea?
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Originally posted by Mogura
GRT was developed by Lionhead Studios... wonder if they\'d let anyone else use the idea?
Some game companies allready did.
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*Gives Xandria a funny look*
How come I missed that thread? I even searched for something of the same type. You must\'ve hidden it in some forum I was not able to access, I\'m sure. :P
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Originally posted by dorbian
i\'d go for the roleplay & incantations,
it\'s way more fun to do and you really can figure out your own spells and have to give your time and effort for it.
the click\'n\'boom is to simple thus newbies can play like crazy and get powerfull spells because the play alot.
so they might overpower the hard working but doing things in his othertime players.
if you need to learn it it is a process in time and not in speed you play thus making it more interesting.
offcourse this is al my oppinion.
And the targeting should be done by mouse(maybe gestures).
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The best idea would, imo be GRT. Also somatic components could be used in spells..
I would hate having to type the same sentences over and over again whilst all the warrior attacking me with his sword has to do is click me with his mouse once... No, even the mud\'s have grown out of that old fashioned way.. I\'ve played a lot of mud\'s with that annoying interface, and also some of the very old rpg\'s for computer.. And it is just so horribly boring..!
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Haha Grono, I had no part in hiding it; unless you call forgetting about it and allowing it to fall to the middle of PAGE 5 (lol) - hiding it :P (not that it was a bad thread or anything; it\'s got over 800 views and (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/images/ps/star.gif)(http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/images/ps/star.gif)(http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/images/ps/star.gif)(http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/images/ps/star.gif)(http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/images/ps/star.gif) ;) )
If it makes you feel better, I had a hard enough time finding it myself :) regardless of the fact that I knew it was there...somewhere ;)
In any case, I just wanted you to know that there was another thread with some different ideas in it, so you\'d have something else to look at and compare your ideas to. That\'s all :)
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Must I remind certain individuals that PlaneShift is not for the people who click the fastest, and type the quickest?
Xandria - Oh, but Page 5... \'Tis very well hidden then, I must say. Not many people go to Page 5, just to find a thread long forgotten. *Writes Xandria in the Book-of-People-Who-Actually-Look-For-Old-Stuff-In-The-Forums* You and I should have a chat sometime. :D
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isn\'t this what the spell book is for, you come up with a spell, write it in your spellbook(assign a hotkey to it), and then if you want to use your spell again you just have to look in your spell book by pressing the hotkey.
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Someone mentioned gesture recognition, so what about voice recognition? ;)
It could be also sensitive so it would recognize how loud you say the word and adjust the spell power to it. You could kill a rat with a whisper, but you\'d have to yell like crazy when fighting a dragon :P
And you actually have to know the spells by heart.
That\'s as close to \"reality\" as you can get...
edit: typos...
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VR? Not mentioning impossibility, it would also require all players to have good(better) conections and microphones.
With gestures, you could master them, with more use... so I\'m for it.
I\'m absolutely against typing spells everytime. The horror!
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Microphones yes, but why better connection? It doesn\'t matter if you initiate the spell by clicking or moving the mouse, hitting a key or saying something. It all happens on your computer only. We are not talking about possibility to talk to each other.
As for the implementation of this... I\'m a musician, not a programmer. I really have no idea how hard that would be. But a VR as such is not impossible. It just isn\'t easy :)
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Effective VR IS nearly impossible.
Oh... yes. If it was all on the clients, then there would be only more hard-disk usage, yes. No need for faster connections.
But still...too much too risky work... let them finish the crucial things first.
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Gesture and texture recognition are too easily hackable/cheatable. I do not believe we will ever use them.
- Venge
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I understand that fact that some people can\'t type very fast and/or accurately, which is why I believe that some form of scripting would be extremely helpful if this system were implemented.
I think the following might be a good way to implement this:
- Spellbooks
Ok, it\'s already been mentioned, but I\'m trying to keep this grouped together. A spellbook would have several pages in it (depending on how good/expensive/\'magical\' the book is) and each page could have a certain number of words that you could write your spells on to. I was trying to think of whether scribed spells should be permanent or erasable, but I couldn\'t decide :P so I\'ll just say for now that your standard spellbook can only be written on, but more advanced spellbooks can have spells erased and new ones written in.
The catch is, it\'s a book (duh); you have to read it. Say you\'re in town, you scribe all sorts of neat spells into your book, and you bind some hotkey to them. Now you step out into the forest and you want to cast a spell that\'s in your book. You press the key that corresponds to the spell you want to cast. Your character then has to pull out their book, look up the spell, cite the incantation, and *attempt to cast spell*, *spell succeeds or fails.* However, it seems reasonable to assume that a mage has short-term memory, and so, based on their intelligence (or some other stat) can remember the last xx number of spells they have recited. So when you press the hotkey again, you will automatically start reciting the spell again. But if you try to call up a spell you can\'t remember, you have to pull out the book again.
- Magical Scrolls/Orbs
This idea\'s been poked around with a couple times, so I figure I\'ll post my version here.
So instead of reciting your spells in battle (which takes time, and has the chance to fail), this method would allow you to cast your spells in town, at home, in the tavern (drunk if you wish ;)), or wherever you would like where you are safe.
So you go to your friendly neighborhood magic shop (that would be me :) ) and pick up some blank scrolls. There would be different types, and each type would be capable of holding a certain length/difficulty of spell. You then proceed to cast the spell onto the scroll, either reciting it by hand or looking it up in your spellbook. Either:
>*attempt to cast spell*, *spell fails*, your scroll goes *poof*
>*attempt to cast spell*, *spell succeeds*, you now have an empowered (for lack of a better word) scroll
Once your scroll is empowered, you can go out into the forest, activate the scroll (via GUI or hotkey), select target if necessary, and *boom*, your spell casts instantly and your scroll goes *poof*. A great way to prepare spells ahead of time if you know you\'re going to get into a sticky situation.
Your friendly neighborhood magic shop also sells magic orbs. These orbs function just like scrolls, except that once the spell has been released, they don\'t disappear; you can reuse them again to hold another spell (they can still only hold one spell at a time). A failed spell cast upon the orb will not result in it being destroyed. Because of this, they will cost quite a bit more than scrolls, and will most likely weight a bit more. However, it\'s another way to cast spells :)
- Magical Staves
I think a cool way to implement this would be a combination of spellbooks and scrolls. When you acquire a new staff it will (unless someone else has already used it) be nothing more than a walking stick. However, magical staves are able to have spell incantations scribed onto them, much like a spellbook (however, as anyone can use a pen to write in a spellbook, it may require a certain level of magical ability to scribe a staff). Each staff, depending on various type/quality factors, will have a maximum limit of words that can be scribed upon it (like the spellbooks). Staves will NOT have the ability to be erased; a spell scribed on a staff cannot be undone in any way. If you really don\'t want it anymore, get another staff and start over.
When it comes time to use it, simply bind a key to a spell on that staff, then press the correct key to cast the spell. Your character will then recite the spell (as if it were read from a spellbook, but no lookup time is necessary, and it does not interfere with remembering other spells), *attempt to cast spell*, *spell succeeds or fails*.
Summary:
- Spellbooks
> Holds a number of spell incantations
> Spells may be scribed into a spellbook by anyone
> Scribed spells may or may not be erasable (depending on the book, probably)
> Spells cast from a spellbook must be looked up prior to casting
> Spells still have a chance of failure
> A short-term memory would allow your character to remember the last few spells recited
> You could hold many spellbooks in your inventory, but only one would be your \'active\' spellbook. If you want to cast a spell from a different book, you would have to switch them out
- Scrolls
> Each scroll holds a single spell
> Spells are cast upon the scroll ahead of time
> A spell failure destroys the scroll, a sucessful cast stores the spell
> An activated scroll casts immediately
> The scroll is destroyed in the casting process
> You can hold as many scrolls as you like (providing you have the space/strength to carry them)
- Orbs
> Each orb holds a single spell
> Spells are cast upon the orb ahead of time
> A spell failure does not affect the orb, a sucessful cast stores the spell
> An activated orb casts immediately
> The orb can be re-used after the spell has been released from it
> Orbs would be more expensive and heavier than scrolls
> You can hold as many orbs as you like (providing you have the space/strength to carry them)
- Staves
> Each staff holds a number of spell incantations
> A certain level of magical ability is used to scribe spells onto a staff
> Scribed spells may not be erased from a staff
> A spell cast from a staff does not need to be looked up, but still needs to be recited
> Spells still have a chance of failure
> Reciting a spell from a staff does not affect your memory of other spells
> You could carry more than one staff on your character, but a staff *must* be your currently equipped weapon to cast a spell from it
*Whew*
I think this is my longest post so far. Please feel free to post your ideas about this, I\'d really like to hear them. I really think that a magical dialogue would make the game so much more interesting for mages :)
Plus, I want to have a staff with an orb on the top of it :D
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And with a lot of effort, you can create spells to write in your spellbook, so if somebody else picks up the spellbook, they can learn the spells!
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Great ideas, Xandria! :)
Here\'s my suggestion on how to strengthen/weaken the spells:
During the character creation I noticed there are multiple(8?) tyoes of magic. Now my idea is that each spell is a manifestation of all(or just some) energies, just that each one(spell) has different energy koeficients and components. By advancing your skills, your spells would increase/weaken accordingly.
They would only weaken if you decresed your stats or if all spells would have all components(you\'d weaken a heal spell by learning black magic...)
The problem is that we wuold have to decide what which of the components do in a spell(and how they interact, if there\'d be all).
It could be so that the sum(Sm) of the modifiers*skills would be an overall modifier of the spell effects. This would simplify things.
pe:
Heal(1,2,0.5[,0,1,0,0.3,1.5]) //these are said modifiers
Let\'s say heal depends on brown, blue, cristal magic(respectively). It heals Sm*4HP
At start(let\'s say you\'re equally adept in all sorts of magic-skill0=1) you\'d cast the spell, strong as your intial skill*spell energy(color) modifier. So the effect would be:
Heal(1*skill0, 2*skill0, 0.5*skill0).
______brown___blue____crystal
Heals Sm*4HP=(1*1+1*2+1*0.5) * 4HP= 14HP
When you\'ve leaned/trained more: //skill1=3
Heal(1*skill1, 2*skill1, 0.5*skill1). Resulting in a stronger Heal.
Heals Sm*4HP=(3*1+3*2+3*0.5) * 4HP= 42HP
etc...
Hope you understand this;).
edit: enhanced examples
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Honestly, I doubt that yibber makes sense to anyone else than people who has some mathmatical university degree. Maybe you could try explaining it with words, or something that allows people to understand it?
Xandria - What is the reasons that scrolls should disappear after use? I mean, you just read something from it. Not like you tell yourself \"Oh, I\'ve read this scroll, and now I must burn it.\" Imagine if your homework disappeared after you read it as well. :D But where do scrolls go? They simply just dissolve into nothing, because they\'re boobytrapped? That\'s the one part of spell-scrolls I simply don\'t understand... Same in Baldurs Gate, if you fail to copy a scroll, it vanishes. Why? I mean, aren\'t people just writing it into their spellbook with a feather and some ink? It makes little sense.. Oh well. :P
Venge - Too easy to hack... Explain yourself, please. :)
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Originally posted by Gronomist
Honestly, I doubt that yibber makes sense to anyone else than people who has some mathmatical university degree. Maybe you could try explaining it with words, or something that allows people to understand it?
I would be the \"yibber\", right? (WTH does it mean?)
University math!? There\'s only simple additions and multiplications... even 3st graders(9yrs) could compute that.
It\'s just an intricate example of how the spells components/player skills would affect the power of the spell.
Need more xamples?
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Do you really need me to explain?
\"Heal(1,2,0.5[,0,1,0,0.3,1.5])\" <-- What in the eight levels is that supposed to mean?
\"Heal(1*skill1, 2*skill1, 0.5*skill1)\" <-- That gives a stronger heal? Why? What are the skills and how come they get multiplied with eachother like that?
I could also make a math example, telling why 100 skill in fist fighting gives better healing, but if I did that, it would simply be stupid.
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Originally posted by Gronomist
Do you really need me to explain?
\"Heal(1,2,0.5[,0,1,0,0.3,1.5])\" <-- What in the eight levels is that supposed to mean?
It means that I used 3 values(components) for the example, although there could be more. I used [] cause it\'s a programming OPTIONAL argument kinda thing. I could have written just the 3 values, but then the example wouldn\'t be so good.
\"Heal(1*skill1, 2*skill1, 0.5*skill1)\" <-- That gives a stronger heal? Why? What are the skills and how come they get multiplied with eachother like that?
By skills i said, magic colours(skill in them). Skill0=1, skill1=3 were just for examplatory use. Of course they\'ll be different in the game.
The multipliers are also(of course) fictional, but they represent the spells position in the magic system. So heal is a brown-blue-crystal skill spell, so it\'s upgraded by upgrading those skills.
And why is the second heal stronger is explained all the way. Better knowledge of magic -> better(same) spells.
I could also make a math example, telling why 100 skill in fist fighting gives better healing, but if I did that, it would simply be stupid.
huh? Is this supposed to be an insult?
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All right, all right, calm down you two, we don\'t want this to get ugly.
lynx_lupo, the reason people are having trouble with your posts is:
1) The way you explain your problems is a bit tricky; yes it is very basic math, but the way you arrange your equations makes it difficult to read
2) This thread topic started as an idea about using words to cast spells, rather than a spell tree of pre-defined spells; you\'re trying to get into defining the strength/composition of the spells themselves
3) \"even 3st graders(9yrs) could compute that.\" Ok, this is a BAD thing to post because it translates into an insult (especially since there\'s no \' ;) \' at the end, which doesn\'t belong in this case anyway)
4) \"even 3st graders(9yrs) could compute that.\" Also, this an invalid statement. If you showed a 3rd grader:
\"Heal(1,2,0.5[,0,1,0,0.3,1.5]) //these are said modifiers
Let\'s say heal depends on brown, blue, cristal magic(respectively). It heals Sm*4HP \"
And ask them to compute the value of Heal() for magic-skill0=1 how many of them would get it?
lynx, just know that I\'m only trying to help you be better understood on the forums. It takes some learning to know how to effectively express your ideas in written format.
5)
\"I could also make a math example, telling why 100 skill in fist fighting gives better healing, but if I did that, it would simply be stupid.\"
\"Is this supposed to be an insult?\"
No, it\'s not. A fist fighting skill giving better healing makes no sense, and Grono thinks that your idea doesn\'t make any sense either (from what I can tell) ;)
Ok, enough damage control, let\'s move on to some real posting. :)
EDIT: I remembered the word I wanted to use
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In a sentence, I would explain lynx\'s idea as:
\"The strength of a spell should be determined by a character\'s knowledge in the arcane ways that make up that spell, with each way having it\'s own \'weight\' that determines how much it affects the potency of the spell.\"
Does that make sense? ?(
Now, onto your reply, Grono:
Originally posted by Gronomist
What is the reasons that scrolls should disappear after use? I mean, you just read something from it. Not like you tell yourself \"Oh, I\'ve read this scroll, and now I must burn it.\" Imagine if your homework disappeared after you read it as well. But where do scrolls go? They simply just dissolve into nothing, because they\'re boobytrapped? That\'s the one part of spell-scrolls I simply don\'t understand...
The deal with scrolls is that you\'re not reading anything from it. Spellbooks are where you write down your spells and recite them from so that you don\'t have to type them in the middle of battle (unless you want to). Scrolls hold the casted spell itself; as in you\'ve already used up mana, reagents, or whatever, to cast the spell, and now the magical force that constitutes a spell is bound within the scroll itself. Once a scroll is activated (unrolling it, or touching a symbol on it, or something to that effect), the spell is released from the scroll with such a magnificant force that the scroll simply goes *poof*! :D
Now, I just realized that I didn\'t make it clear that I think all the methods I listed should be implemented; I didn\'t mean for it to be \"the system PS should us is the scroll system\" or \"...the spellbook system\". I tried to come up with a different method for each the spellbook, the scroll, the orb, and the staff, so that they were all methods of casting spells that didn\'t require you to be a fast/efficient typer. Yet, I tried to make each different enough that it allows for different styles of gameplay, and that each player would use some combination of the forms listed for casting spells.
If you can\'t stand to see all those little scrolls going *poof* into nothing, just save up for an orb ;)
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No offense meant by my part, insulting is silly anyway and non-constructive.
I know it\'s a bit hard to read, that\'s why I wrote the description first and added the comments to the examples. And it\'s also a very basic thing that I was describing, so it has to be in some kind of \"assembler\".
Maybe I should have elaborated more on the matter(Your summary nails it! :)).
And by third graders I meant the computing part which is walkthrough-ed. I think they could do it. Again, no flaming or sth meant.
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I agree with you, scrolls should dissipate. And the orb invention(at least from what I see) is great too.
Maybe magic could be vowen into flesh too- magic tattoes. They\'d have to have a permanent effect, though.
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Anything which is done on the client in terms of interpretation or recognition is hackable in the sense that someone could alter their source code to just recognize all the time, or make a button and send the network message for a correct interpretation, etc. Does this make sense?
This is how auto-aim bots in Quake work, and how a million other cheats also work.
- Venge
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I think in-game hotkeys for an incantation have been proposed already, so an aimbot type thing would be pointless.
Some of the main points, in my opinion, are the time for the incantation to resolve (which nobody mentioned), creating spells, spellbooks, system of learning spells, and some other things. Not the typing. That was never the point. OK, well, maybe it might have been, but as has already been mentioned, penalizing slow typers isn\'t fair.
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Ah, my brother will be a Red-Mage Klyros(sp) in CB, so typing would kill him...
I see the way to do this is to comprimise between casting time/realism/vulnerability of the spell caster and the proportion of these to the power of the spell.
I don\'t see myself clicking the \"Fire Blast From the Pits of all that is the Bloody Devil\'s Rage\" spell button if my character has to do a little animation dance for 15 seconds to blow away a few Evil Shrooms or n00bs... making powerful spells cumbersome and unweildy to use when being a jerk. Even the n00biest n00b would be able to escape the range of any spell if it took too long to cast.
I also don\'t see the point in wanting a huge spell to be cast by pressing Alt+S+1 just because otherwise you would be vulnerable? You should have guardians like party members if you are going to use spells that take that long. To me that is basic strategy....although it makes me shudder to think of battles like fftactics...having to wait a \'turn\' to cast a spell isnt too bad, as long as you have protection.