PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xychwnn the Unutterable on October 22, 2003, 07:55:11 am
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The biggest and most successful fantasy world ever created, as we all know, is Tolkien\'s Middle Earth, but what most don\'t know is that he created the entire worlds and peoples to give himeself to use the languages he created first.
Now, most fantasy worlds will write elaborate histories and expositions of the cultures contained in them, they almost always completely ignore, or do a really half-assed job when it comes to languages. Most of the time you\'ll see random letters just jumbled up together with a few diacritics and apostrophes tossed in here and there to make them look \"foreign\".
Personally, I find this really corny and I would absolutely love to see a fantasy world with believable languages and scripts not just garbled, untterable names of places and people and a few pseudo-runic looking characters attached to magic glyphs and whatnot. What I would enjoy even more is a MMORPG where language makes a difference.
It seems very few notice that RPG stands for ROLE-PLAYING game (It\'s not MMOH\'n\'SG). I think it would be a great boost to, and encourage, role-playing to have some sort of language system included (and have the languages be somewhat realistic), as this would, at least to me, make the cultures, and the differences between them, much more alive.
You could have magical incantations being recited in a certain tongue by the player to cast a spell (instead of pushing a hotkey and clicking). Maybe a mage must read a spell of a scroll first, but would therefore need to know the corresponding language.
Also, different races could have different tongues, with there being a common or \"trade\" tongue. Players could select the language they know that they wish to speak in and only other characters who know it will understand it. To others it would appear either as gibberish or a message could come up saying \"so-and-so says something a strange tongue\".
Maybe there could be certain books with clues to solving puzzles that could only be read by a character who knows the language (the character, not the player). Hell, maybe they could even use the currently out of place \"Teacher\" profession as someone that can teach languages to people for a fee.
Now, this is really dreaming, but it would be great to see some role-players ACTUALLY speaking to each other in their character\'s native tongue when using the suggested language-selection feature. Or to see the books or scrolls written in a certain Yliakum language ACTUALLY written in that language.
Now, I know people will probably immediately say \"yeah this would be great, but it would take forever and/or be almost impossible to do\". First of all, you really don\'t need an entire language just the phonology and grammar and a basic vocabulary with a few common expressions, or just the words needed in whatever text will be used in-game.
Secondly, I\'m NOT saying that the devs themselves do all this. Seeing how many rpers write in the story section, I\'m sure they could find plenty of gamers willing to work a side project like this (Hell, I\'ll do it myself if they want). And I\'m sure once a language has been worked out enough plenty of players will be contributing texts (poems, maybe short stories or tales, songs, whatever) written in Yliakum tongues to be used in-game to really fill out the world. People write histories for the world, why not this? It\'s just as much a part of it. After all, this is going to be a free game for the players, so the players should help build it, even if it\'s just secondary aspects such as this.
I\'m sure there are PLENTY of other ways a language system could be implemented in-game enriching the world without becoming a mere hassle and judging from all the creative people I\'ve seen here I really don\'t think it would be all that hard to do. I\'ve just really wanted to play in a living, breathing world for a long time now and this game, being open to everyone and developed by gamers, seems to be the only one out there that has a shot of pulling that off.
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i think everyone an communicate but most races have theyre own language.
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It is a very interesting idea, but I\'d have to classify this as one of those \"yeah this would be great, but it would take forever and/or be almost impossible to do\" ideas, to borrow your phrase.
I understand how you want to make the game more dynamic, and more realistic. But we still have to remember what the mods tell us: \"It\'s a game, and it\'s meant to be fun.\" While we want the world to be believable, we don\'t want it to be just like real life. After all, the whole idea of RP\'ing is to experience something different for awhile, and to have fun.
I\'m not trying to shoot down your idea at all; it\'s good to see some fresh perspectives. However, I think that this would be more than frustrating to a great many people who keep seeing \"so-and-so says something in a strange tongue\" and not being able to communicate with each other.
Although, it might be something fun to do with quests. So you could converse with all the PC\'s just normally, but your character would have to know the same language as a particular NPC in order to communicate with them. Gaining access to new quests would require that you put effort into whatever it takes to learn that language in order to talk to the NPC. Just an idea anyway :)
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I agree, an interesting idea, but with a large creepin\' shadow over it. Think of newbies, they come into the world, barely manage to move and then they try to ask someone for help and he says \"srgydd\" or sth. And one would possibly have to wander around for half an hour(or more!) just to be able to talk with someone! The quest thing is very nice, but what if no one knows the language(there\'d have to be some starting lore on every language)?!
...
See, it\'s problematic.
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i dont know what the heck you guys are talking about because this is one of the most easily scripted ideas, but whatever. This is an easy request but i mean for what? This language ideas doesnt have any good qualities to it... seems like one of those ideas that are in a game that no one really cares about... like crafting in runescape or something....
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As whemyfield said, it would be (if you ask me) fairly easy to do.
Let\'s say there are 8 languages. Everyone selects one. Xandria and I can talk to eachother (in plain english) because we talk the same language, yet to others, it appear as \"Ahg ghih aige boin hehp? (Hiya, how are you?)\". Now, Xychwnn and whemyfield will be able to talk to eachother (still in plain english) as they both chose some diffrent language, and to Xandria and I, it would appear just like above (Ahg ghih aige boin hehp?). Then, of course, there should be a little drop-down menu thing, where you can select which language to speak in, depending on which you know, and you should be able to learn the other languages, but that\'s another story. :)
You could have magical incantations being recited in a certain tongue by the player to cast a spell (instead of pushing a hotkey and clicking). Maybe a mage must read a spell of a scroll first, but would therefore need to know the corresponding language.
Just what I said in my thread. :)
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Well, if you did that, then everone should start with at least two languages, your races language, and a \"common\" tongue, used for commerce and interspecies communication. this of course would make racial languages only really good for talking to people of your race when you don\'t want to be overheard(like whispering, but people can eavsdrop if they know the language) It would be pretty cool, but it just be another thing on the VERY long list.
Jessyn
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I absolutely agree with Jessyn. In the city of Hydlaa, where you will always start out in the game, people of all different races are gathered living, working, trading and crafting together. They must all speak the same tongue, or the city would be in chaos.
Consider however, travelling to a far off Enkidukai encampment on another plane of Yliakum. Would they speak the same language as the Hydlians? No. Of course not.
However, if you are born of the Enkidukai species, you should enter the game carrying the knowledge of both your native tongue, and the Hydlian language. In this way, all characters will be able to speak to eachother, but same-species friends may chat away in their native language, insulting the Ynnwn who just walked past without him understanding a word of it. ;)
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still think multiple languages are useless because you guys want an alternate language but you want to understand each other too. I mean why? Role play! Pretend your talking a different language. Go hide in a closet and talk to yourself in an imaginary tongue if your that upity about it all. Basically its another good idea that isnt very practical and almost a little silly once you think about it.
Though maybe just to spice things up they should make firey little runes on mysterious things like the altar at the temple, but make it non-understandable. Dont make it an actual language, just some mysterious little runes for people to wonder about.
-Kixie
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Originally posted by whemyfield
you guys want an alternate language but you want to understand each other too. I mean why? Role play!
I believe you answered your own question quite correct. :)
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I think that there should be a language for magical incantations that players could use, or multiple ones for the different Ways.
As for species languages, Tolkien made them for us! Or are they copyrighted?
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ummm, let\'s not rip of the great one\'s languages. copyrighted or not, we should come up with our own languages, if we are gonna use them. besides, i really can\'t see a diaboli speaking elvish, dwarvish, or hobbit, so...
Jessyn
BTW, if anyone cares, i can read/write tolkiens dwarvish
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\"Dwarvish\" consists not of letters, but of symbols (okay, strange letters).
Jessyn - Be careful with what you say. Nowadays, you might be sued for mentioning the word hobbit. \'Tis copyrighted in strict ways, you know. Same with any language/word in the Lord of The Rings movies/books. :P
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Came across this site today...
http://yhl.freeservers.com/rpgs/rpglang.html
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Make it the other way.
Add Languages to the characters, languages that the character can understand and speak.
Example:
Hyarion tells Ingvar: greatings!
Hyarion has only Swe as language and
Ingvar has Eng and Swe so he understands it.
Hyarion will allways understand Ingvar.
If Evelyn (that speaks Fr and Eng) tells Hyarion somthing, hyarion will not understand a single word (no language is the same).
Later, Hyarion gets Eng and is able to talk to Evelyn.
(if no language are the same it could be displayed as some random letters)
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lol, probably true grono, but what could they sue me for? my P200? besides, usually I get a cease and desist letter first....
Jessyn
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Would we be able to use Tolkien\'s language?
Also.. having characters talk in there tounge might be a little annoying. And NPC\'s should talk in the trade tounge, maby if two NPC\'s are talking togther they can talk in there own tounge.
I do have a suggestion on the topic. have actual languages (possible short cuts would be using Tolkiens or Klingon). but have them in the game on scrolls, signs, puzzels - and have the abblitly to buy dictionarys for the different languages... And hopefully the hardcore players will start comunicate in there native tounge with other players.
Also (wish list) have a print works/book store to be able to print your own books (mass copies of them) to be able to sell in book stores or to give to guild members. (these books can be dictionarys for a guild language *nudge*nudge* or just guild stories. ext..)
-also with the books you should be able lock them so that only the owner/author of the book can modify them (unlike ultima online where everyone was able to modify them)
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Originally posted by temps
Would we be able to use Tolkien\'s language?
Not a chans, we\'ll get sued big time.
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just add another skill, the language skill. all races can start of with their own native skill and the \"international\" reading skill, if you don\'t have this skill you just see the language as it should be, so it will be pretty much unreadable, if you do have the skill the text will automaticly be translated for you in english so you can normally read it. this way you could have quests you can\'t solve without learning a language, or specific items you can\'t buy without talking to a npc that speaks another language.
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It\'ll probably just be a little guild-code-like thingy, you know? No official tounge, but just a guild-wide one.
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For anyone out there who still says this would be too hard, I present this...
http://www.langmaker.com/langmake/
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If you think your own suggestion about different in-game languages serious, you wouldn\'t show that link to anyone. If a language is needed, it has to be made from scratch, not by typing in a dictionary into a semi-pre-programmed language thing.
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all that program does essentially is generate random words based on given rules YOU select for the language, meaning you have to enter the phonemes, syllable structure, sound mutations, and basic grammar, etc. this is the crux of any language, and the hard part in creating one. word meaning is arbitrary in all languages and assigning words to meanings is what takes up the most time. this just cuts out the busy work.
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Actually this is not a bad concept. And as several have said not difficult to implement.
Now as some have already mentioned you do need a common tongue so people can communicate.
Learning a new tongue should not be too easy. Or you might as well not have them.
Now having real languages as Tolkein did in his books would be a fantastic way to add richness to the world of PS and enhance the RP aspects of the game. However I don\'t think it would significantly affect gameplay itself.
PS. I volunteer for the language project if they wished to do it. Some of the things to consider would be cultural influences.
Racial Oral Morphology, (some sounds might be physically available to one race that another wouldn\'t have access to. )
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What would actually be pretty tigh it id they had racial languages. Like the Ynnwn had their own language, Enkudukai their own, Stonebreakers their own, etc...
Of course we\'d all still be able to use English, French and other languages that people speak...
I just think that\'d be cool...
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Originally posted by Mogura
.... In this way, all characters will be able to speak to eachother, but same-species friends may chat away in their native language, insulting the Ynnwn who just walked past without him understanding a word of it. ;)
I like the idea in all but I\'m a Ynnwn and I won\'t be insulted!.................*pulls out a stack of dictionaries and studies the different tongues*.........Now I\'m ready for ya!
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well ps is all english. you are currently not supposed to be speaking any other language this breaking any language barrier.