PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zeonire on October 30, 2003, 02:34:24 am
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I have seen that there are a bunch of people who are making games and want assistance with it. I just want to know one thing. What program/software fo you use to actually make this game? I can\'t make it in my programming class- the directors get pissed.
Also, if you need help with 2d/3d grafix, contact me at matrixfan007@hotmail.com. I can help you there. Just know that I don\'t personally have the software it takes to do any of it. Suggest it to me and give me a link to a purchase site. Glad to be of help and please help me!
-Zeonire.
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they use maya to make the game along with help with the signature crystal space 3d software.. :]
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OKay...well, all I really need is, since I recently bought what I think is the apt software, is someplace to host it or something, like Xtal Space. What is the site for that?
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CrystalSpace, not Xtal, can be found somewhere at http://sourceforge.org (http://sourceforge.org), just don\'t ask me where as I have not a clue. :) As for a program to use for animations/3D, you\'d probably want to try out Maya or 3D Studio Max, though I\'m not sure they come cheap - if you\'re planning on buying them, that is. :D
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I\'m definitely planning to buy them, I\'ve been saving up for a while. I also need a server, which is what I\'m currently working on getting. Wish me luck!
-Zeonire.
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You\'re going to need more than luck and professional programs if you want to make a game, that\'s for sure.
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Originally posted by Zeonire
I\'m definitely planning to buy them, I\'ve been saving up for a while. I also need a server, which is what I\'m currently working on getting. Wish me luck!
-Zeonire.
Well you better have saved at least ?4,000 my friend. Because that\'s how much Maya costs, apparently.
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MAX is cheaper, and I think it\'s easier to use. It\'s a bit less powerful than Maya, but that doesn\'t really factor into making game graphics. And I didn\'t see what and if there are Maya exporters for Crystal Space, but the MAX ones seem well documented and straight forward to use.
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well, good luck with buying maya/3dsmax..
CrystalSpace is located at http://crystal.sf.net/
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Well, let me tell you about what I plan to do w/ this game. It will have a 2d/3d graphics engine. The graphics will be much like RS, just a whole lot better; not measuring up to PS.
I also know that it\'ll require more than luck- I\'ve gone through 2 years of programming courses. And I even though maya may be 4000 pounds, how many dollars is that, lol? I\'m in America...
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?4,000 is probably about $6,000 or more, but I don\'t know exactly how much.
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I also happen to have no clue what the pound/dollar discrepancy is. I\'ll look it up, but if it\'s 6k, that bites...
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I suppose u could download the software.
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I have both and they are a complete waste of time unless you wanna be a game artist. For a programmer DirectX or OGL is the stuff. So my advice is \" hang on to your moola\". I think Caligari Truespace is cheaper but not as comprehensive or you could just use summin like Autocad or Ideas for basic modelling(i dont know what they cost though). If you don\'t plan to do much (and hopefully you wont) just use blender or POVray. They are free and you\'ll get the hang of things before you buy any of these expensive softwares.
EDIT: Just thought i\'d also add that game development doesn\'t come easy or cheap if it has any kind of graphics intensiveness. Me and another dozen of guys started an a tekken like game but gave up becuase it was running into costs more than we could afford. Most of us had 6 to 7 years experience in programming so figure it out. Getting the server is a killer idea however:tup:
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going at a current exchange rate of 1.62 pounds/dollar. the price would be $6480 :(
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Who said you must buy it? Hehe! :rolleyes:
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My tip on making games is to start make a game of your own but use simple tools like Flash (here\'s a link to one of my first Flash game: http://www.niber.net/download/kp.exe (http://www.niber.net/download/kp.exe) ) but not too simple like Klick n\' Play. The good thing about Flash is that the grafics and programming is intregraded so good + the programing is similar to C++ so you will learn that.
And then when you feel like you are ready to use proffesional tools like 3dsmax\\Maya (for grafix), MS Visual C++ .NET\\Borland C++ (for programing) and Cubase SX (for music production) then specialize in one of them instead of trying to master them all. It is possible to be good at them all, but it is nearly impossible to make a good game by yourself with these tools.
But that is my way there is other ways like making mods and stuff.
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Flash is good for starting 2-D game development. I used Project Fun (http://\"http://projectfun.digipen.edu\") for a couple years. It\'s limited, but gives you a good idea of game structure and logic and is VERY easy to use.
Right now I\'m working with Wild Tangent (http://\"http://www.wildtangent.com\"), a DirectX based API that is simple for 3-D games, you can even program them in JavaScript!
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IN my 2 years of programming practice, I have mastered how to use Java, C++, and Visual Basix... Now me and my friends gave up the idea for about a year, but plan on \"rebooting\" the game creation later on. Lol, most of us are 15 w/o jobs outside of mowing lawns.
But anyways, yeha, I know about the expenses, but I didn\'t think it\'d be THAT much. I already got Java on my PC and plan on purchasing C++ w/ some of the money I got saved up.
I am building the \"COming Soon\" site. The game\'s name is \"Legends of Handris.\" Handris being the world...
Thanx for the advice, everyone!
-Zeonire.
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If you\'ve mastered C++, how come you\'re saying you want to buy it? Unless I\'m entirely mistaken, my little C++ experience tells me that all you need is a Linux OS, a Text editor, and some basic Linux programs, that come included in the full install ( such as \"CP\" :P )... What\'s there to buy? Linux is free.
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Well Grom, if you use windows like me, you will need a C++ editor and compiler. I got a pirated version of Visual C++ on Kazaa, but there are other free ones around.
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Originally posted by Zeonire
IN my 2 years of programming practice, I have mastered how to use Java, C++, and Visual Basix...
Will in my roughly 10 years of experiance I would only count myself \'comfortable\' with my knowledge of C++ and Java. You will find that as you get older there is less and less you know until it becomes a crushing weight on your shoulders with exactly how little you do know. :)
But anyways, yeha, I know about the expenses, but I didn\'t think it\'d be THAT much. I already got Java on my PC and plan on purchasing C++ w/ some of the money I got saved up.
There are some free compilers available for the windows platform. I would really suggest spending the bucks ( maybe up to $100 ) on a boxed version of a C++ compiler. ( For java it is really easy to find good IDE\'s on the web ).
Programming is a profession just like any others and it takes time, training and a certain level of skills. If you have a scalpel and some tissues does that make you a neurosurgeon?
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Online stores for Discreet and Alias|Wavefront have the following prices:
3D Studio Max 6: $3495.00
Maya 5 Complete: $1999.00
Maya 5 Unlimited: $6,999.00
Also, Caligari Truspace 6.6 is listed at $595.00. They have full version 3.2 avaliable as a free download, I think.
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you can get maya personal free but it cannot render anyhting without plastering student edition all over it.
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I\'d reiterate what Dameon said, but it would only look I\'m copying what he said, so I\'m not gonna, but I happen to be on windows...thats all ive ever been on. BUt anyways, I\'m pretty dang sure that there is no way that, for free, i can make the graphics for the game a bit less quality than PS, but definitely a hell of a lot better than RS\'s.
And to what acraig said, i agree- it does take time. The onyl reason I have gotten good at it so quickly is because I have taken 5 programming courses in 2 years: BST, Web Design, Page Design, Programming, and Programming II...
And, as a final statement, Legends of Handris, the game I was starting, is put off for another year, or at most a year...I need a job and so does the rest of my team...we need a heck of a lot more than we thought...
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Well, we could call that \"Mistake #1\". :)
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Free 3d software:
Wings3d: http://www.wings3d.com/
Blender: http://www.blender3d.com/
Voila, free, no charge. Only issue: very difficult to understand how to use... But hey, if you don\'t put any time in you won\'t get anywhere in the first place.
Good luck!
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Ah, building a game on a limited budget. Something I know a bit about :) Here is my $0.02
Allow me to add Milkshape3D to the list of modelers. It\'s not free (about $30 to register it IIRC), but it\'s the best 3D modeler I\'ve seen that isn\'t outragously priced. It\'s very 3DSMax-like, without the price tag. Also it supports about a zillion file formats. I highly recommend it. It\'s what we\'re using for Sovereignty. It\'ll do the usual 3D modelling stuff, allow you to set texture coords (although to be honest, I\'m not thrilled with the way they handle this, but it works), set bone structure and handle animation. Its a pretty impressive package, IMO.
For a paint program, the only choice is Paint Shop Pro. Also pretty cheap, about $100 IIRC. I don\'t think there is any other option :)
For C++ compiler, I agree with Andrew, you get what you pay for. GCC is workable, but I wouldn\'t want to use it :) MSVC++ is the industry standard, but I also would urge you to look into Borland\'s line of compilers (Builder), they are very good. You won\'t want to use the VCL or MFC for your game proper (too slow, their not designed for fast paced games), but for tools (like terrain editors or database management programs), those libraries are invaluable, and my feeling is that the VCL (Borland) is far superior to the MFC (MS). Just my opinion. Either way, this will be your big expense, the compilers aren\'t cheap (about $500 for the professional versions for either one). But this is definately where you should invest your money, a good compiler is *essential*.
As for a 3D engine, you can buy one (or use a free one), or roll your own. For Sov, we did the latter. PS did the former. The advantage to rolling your own is that you will be able to modify it to work best with your game without any problems, rather than wait on the desingers of the engine to work with you. The disadvantage is that you just added a year\'s worth of work to your project :) Take your pick, it\'s a personal choice. If you get a pre-existing one, Crystal Space seems to be about the best (that I know of anyway, I\'m not an expert in this area).
If you need a database, use MySQL. No reason to use anything else. The only drawback is that MySQL is under the GPL license, which means that (unless you want to open source your game or pay the licensing fee) you can only use it for the server, not for the clients. But that\'s probably okay, you don\'t want to have a database system on the client end anyway, database work should strictly be on the server end.
As for knowledge:
Know C++ *well* (or Java, if you are going that way). This is a absolute prerequesite. As Andrew said, the more you learn about C++, the more you will realize you don\'t know :) If you know classes and inheritance and operating overloading, and understand the concepts of object oriented programming, you\'ll probably do okay.
For networking, know sockets. WinSock if you are intending a windows platform, BSD sockets if not (pretty much the same thing anyway). If you are talking about a MMOG, you probably want UDP packets with an IOCP model for the server. The clients can use a simpler model (we use asynchronous socket model for the Sov clients).
Know DirectX, if you are doing Windows. Especially Direct3D, DirectSound, and DirectInput. There is also DirectPlay, which has mixed reviews. I prefer Sockets over DPlay, but that\'s up to you. The jury is stilll out on whether DPlay can handle MMOG levels of players.
For the database access, you will need to know the MySQL language. It\'s not too hard to pick up though.
That should get you started, I think. None of these is a real prerequesite except the knowledge of the language you are using. For instance, when we started Sov, I knew JACK about Winsock, and within a couple of months, studies up enough to put together an IOCP server (the most complex but powerful type). If you know *nothing* about 3D programming and are planning on building your own engine, that might be an updward climb, but it can be done.
Above all, break your game down into systems and implement them one at a time, using OOP techniques. You can\'t finish the whole thing in a day or even a year probably. Stick with it, be willing to learn and learn from your mistakes (you will makes lots, trust me, hehe), do lots of research, and be willing to ask when you don\'t know (you will sometimes make yourself look foolish, you should see some of my posts on gamedev, heh).
Wow, this became a much longer post than I intended. I just meant to recommend Milkshape :) Sorry \'bout that, LOL.
Good luck,
Ron
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Lol, yeah, that would be \"Mistake #1.\"
But anyways, the team has decided that we are putting it off for at least a little while...we don\'t want to have runescape graphics, because thsoe are simply pathetic as hell...
I know Jav and C++, you could get nowhere without. I have laready looked into MySQL and that is the database I am using.
And yeah, that was long, lol, but helpful :)
-Zeonire.
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If you want to do a game you have so much things to consider. Buying the software is probably what takes the less time.
You can even start with an illegal version and buy it later. (why not...)
You need to define a good gameplay based on a precise concept.
Planeshift concept is now a bit classic because the game takes lot of time to do.
Depending of your game you\'ll need to find the good person. If you want correct graphics, you need 3D artist. It\'s not something you\'re going to learn in a year or two.
And remember completing a game is actually extremely hard.
I work in the game industry for Phelios Inc. We\'re doing 2D GAMES, and it\'s still really long and hard to do.
So imagine what could be a full 3D game.
I don\'t want to discourage you, but there are not so many way:
- you LOVE doing game, you know it\'s what you\'d always wanted to do or it\'s a good reconversion.
- you do that because it just looks cool.
Good luck with it, but think about gathering the good skills, checking if you\'re not too ambitious on your game, have a good concept (example: In Memoriam) and just love creating!
(BTW, you must aim to better graphist than PS! Do not restrict yourself!)
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Yeah, I\'ve already got my 3d artist, he\'s supposedly been working on programming since he was 3. If you\'ve ever heard of the mmo Treasure Island Hunters or something like that, he did the rendering for that.
BUt I am only doing the 2d grafix when it comes to programming, man, 3d looks WAY too difficult for me. I\'m gonna wait a while. That\'s the only programming I\'m in charge of, the rest I do is character design and story...
-Zeonire.
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hey i use 3ds max 5 and if u are interrested in making 3d models and graphics even for 2d games i would go w/ 3ds max 5 because in 6 months i am making making game models and items w/ nothing but a few tutorials and a simple interrest in 3d graphics
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