PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Gzian on November 02, 2003, 04:29:32 pm
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I have spoken with some npcs. with others, it is not always easy to tell who is a player and who is an npc. This will become especially a problem when large numbers of players come online. Also the unless you ask the right question, gibberish results. Accordingly, I would suggest some additions, which I have seen in some online games.
1. Have a mark such as an exclaimation point or ? used for npcs that have quests. If the quest is doable, the mark will be in green. If the quest requires a high level, the mark will be red.
2. Trainers should also have some identifying mark that they are a trainer and preferably what subject they train. For example, a weapon/armor trainer might have a shield or sword above his head.
3. This may have been discussed,but conversation with NPCs isn\'t the easiest around. I would change this to one of two approaches: 1. When we ask the npc about himself, they should note in brackets ( such as occurs in everquest) what we should be asking for and suggest the exact wording of our request. 2. The approach that I like better is to have a set choice of conversational lines that we can simply click on to get what we need. One thing is for sure, there needs to be a better way to communicate with the npcs and get what they have available in a more efficient manner.
4. I think that newspapers should be provided which give hints as to new things, quests, missions etc that players should attempt.
5. Dungeons: I have rarely (although I won\'t say never) met a player that liked real convoluted complex dungeons. Getting lost isn\'t fun for most people but the real hardcore. I would suggest that when you design dungeons, they should, for the most part, be fairly straight forward, which means that they are easy to navigate and easy to find the exit. This is not to say that I would eliminate all the sophisticated dungeons. I would have a few for those hard core types that want a challenge and like to explore till they drop in finding exits etc. However, I wouldn\'t have a lot of these, and I would make them the exception and not the rule.
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the game is a tech-demo, the npc\'s are just here for some basic testing, they will be alot more advanced in the next version.
i don\'t really like the ideas you came up with as most of them make the game a lot less fun. half of the fun of solving a quest is actually finding it, if a npc has a sign above his head \"QUEST HERE\" you would take away all of that.
about the dungeons, as there will be falling damage in the next version of PS, i don\'t think you should be able to jump in the well so easily. so if you jump in there, don\'t whine about not finding the way out, you did it yourself.
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Originally posted by Gzian
I have spoken with some npcs. with others, it is not always easy to tell who is a player and who is an npc. This will become especially a problem when large numbers of players come online. Also the unless you ask the right question, gibberish results. Accordingly, I would suggest some additions, which I have seen in some online games.
I definitively agree, it\'s always boring to try to find neutral sentence to detect if it is a NPC or a player
1. Have a mark such as an exclaimation point or ? used for npcs that have quests. If the quest is doable, the mark will be in green. If the quest requires a high level, the mark will be red.
hmm... i don\'t like this. Travellling through the world to find quests is part of difficulty (and fun)
2. Trainers should also have some identifying mark that they are a trainer and preferably what subject they train. For example, a weapon/armor trainer might have a shield or sword above his head.
i don\'t think trainers will exist. (according to discussion in the Wish List forum)
5. Dungeons: I have rarely (although I won\'t say never) met a player that liked real convoluted complex dungeons. Getting lost isn\'t fun for most people but the real hardcore. I would suggest that when you design dungeons, they should, for the most part, be fairly straight forward, which means that they are easy to navigate and easy to find the exit. This is not to say that I would eliminate all the sophisticated dungeons. I would have a few for those hard core types that want a challenge and like to explore till they drop in finding exits etc. However, I wouldn\'t have a lot of these, and I would make them the exception and not the rule.
but i like sophisticated dungeons. however i agree that they should be not so numerous.
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Axsyrus notes,\"i don\'t really like the ideas you came up with as most of them make the game a lot less fun. half of the fun of solving a quest is actually finding it,\"
Axsyrus, sorry,but I DON\'T agree. First, I should note that I am not an idiot. I was a game reviewer for UO shards and was a freelance game reviewer for various game sites and magazines.
Secondly, It isn\'t fun to me to try to figure out who the players are and who the npcs are. I am sorry,but that isn\'t fun. Clicking on everyone and everything isn\'t fun!
My main gripe with most MMORPG games is that they have too much time sinks and not enough time in the fun parts of the game.
Convoluted dungeons that require hours if not weeks to get out of isn\'t fun. Spending many minutes of frustration figuring out what dialogue to use on an NPC isn\'t fun. Finally, spending lots of time even figuring out who the NPCs are vs. the players because they look alike isn\'t fun.
If all this is your idea of fun, we agree to disagree. However, since I have reviewed games (and sometimes still do), I like to think that I have a handle on what people like and don\'t like, and would humbly suggest that you take my suggestions a bit more seriously!
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Originally posted by Gzian
Convoluted dungeons that require hours if not weeks to get out of isn\'t fun.
Some people find that\'s not fun. I agree that it must exist easy to find/solve dungeons and quests, but it\'s not because there is players who dislike difficulty that everyhting should be simple. You can make easy to find quests (through newspaper for example) but some quests should be available only for players that take the time to enjoy the game. And YES spending time on a game, travelling through the world, trying to find hidden places , quests or NPCs is enjoying a game
Spending many minutes of frustration figuring out what dialogue to use on an NPC isn\'t fun. Finally, spending lots of time even figuring out who the NPCs are vs. the players because they look alike isn\'t fun.
I think we can agree on this.
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It occured to me that I noted what isn\'t fun. Maybe I should note what is:
1. I loved the algebraic and logic puzzles and other puzzles( that didn\'t require Einstein to solve) found in Might and Magic 1-5. They were very nice and gave decent rewards. I am good at these and if you want to add them, I can help
2. I loved the single player game that had combination locks on chests. There was a skill called \"lockpicking \" or something where the higher the skill the easier to get the combination.
3. I loved the one thing that made Everquest stand out, lots of nice unique items constantly being added to the game.
4. I loved being able to tailer your character to make a battle mage or whatever and didn\'t have to rely on the designers choices of skills.
5. I love secret room with hidden treasures found in trees and behind walls. This certainly encouraged exploration.
6. I loved being able to kill creatures or mobs without needing a lot of other players. Certainly, I hated dieing but will acknowledge that it needs to be a possibility in the game, just not a probability as found in some online games. Although I would like the ability to group and get added benefits from grouping
7. I hate PvP!
8. I love the \"who all\" commands that tell me who is online so I can send a message.
9. I love macros where I can talk to people or repeat message without a lot of typing.
10. I love a high limit on skills and/or levels so I won\'t reach a plateau on growth but hate to have each level take too long a time for each level.
11. I love clear intuitive interfaces.
12. I love a clear manual explaining what should and should not be done, and thus keep the studid questions (such as mine) from being asked.
13. I love a tutorial for new players so that we can easily access the game without a lot of problems. AC2 did this very well.
There is probably more,but you get the point
8. I love t
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Originally posted by Gzian
It occured to me that I noted what isn\'t fun. Maybe I should note what is:
1. I loved the algebraic and logic puzzles and other puzzles( that didn\'t require Einstein to solve) found in Might and Magic 1-5. They were very nice and gave decent rewards. I am good at these and if you want to add them, I can help
That\'s always nice puzzles
2. I loved the single player game that had combination locks on chests. There was a skill called \"lockpicking \" or something where the higher the skill the easier to get the combination.
I hope you don\'t mean a game that can only be broken by brute force (trying all combinations, combinations being less numerous if high skill). I don\'t like these ones
5. I love secret room with hidden treasures found in trees and behind walls. This certainly encouraged exploration.
agreed.
7. I hate PvP!
What do you call PvP? Is it PK (not allowed) or duelling and guild wars (they are probably going to be allowed)
11. I love clear intuitive interfaces.
Who don\'t like them? ;)
12. I love a clear manual explaining what should and should not be done, and thus keep the studid questions (such as mine) from being asked.
Manuals are generally not so useful. Nobody reads them (and especially those who ask questions). However, there is howtos in the Newbie forum
13. I love a tutorial for new players so that we can easily access the game without a lot of problems. AC2 did this very well.
This is definitively a must. In the FF* games, you can easily throw yourself in the game without any knowledge, knowing that tutorials will give you all the knowledge you need
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I think there should be a way of identifying npc\'s, like different coloured names or something, but not quests. You should have to talk to an npc before you find out if they have something to offer.
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well, right now you are easily able to identify npc: the have two part names, and players can only create one part names ;-)
though id like to be able to use space in names, so we could create more varied and rpg like names :)
finally, i dont like the \"npc makes this and that\" markers, too =?
of course talking to npc have to be improved, but in an intuitive way, not like \"i tell you to say this\" ;)
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NPC \"Zak\" has a one part name
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but he looks completely different =?
anyway, i know that the names arent a good to identify npc like they are now, just wanted to mention that you are able to differ npc from players right now, in the current version :-)
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i don\'t think trainers will exist. (according to discussion in the Wish List forum)
I can already request 3 sorts of training in the game. (they just aren\'t implemented yet)
It isn\'t fun to me to try to figure out who the players are and who the npcs are. I am sorry,but that isn\'t fun. Clicking on everyone and everything isn\'t fun!
almost all NPC\'s have a \' or a space in there name, a normal player is not even able to do this, you also won\'t find any NPC\'s that walk yet, so that makes them easily recognisable.
Convoluted dungeons that require hours if not weeks to get out of isn\'t fun.
wow, did it actually took you hours to get out of that dungeon, sorry didn\'t know you were that stupid.. there is something called a chat window, you can always ask
Spending many minutes of frustration figuring out what dialogue to use on an NPC isn\'t fun.
the NPC\'s are just here for some simple testing! i thought i already said this.. the dialogue will be greatly improved in the next versions. (everything you can say right now is in the player guide, you could have read that too.)
Axsyrus, sorry,but I DON\'T agree. First, I should note that I am not an idiot. I was a game reviewer for UO shards and was a freelance game reviewer for various game sites and magazines.
Gzian, sorry, but I DON\'T care.
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Gzian, please remove your head from your arse before you are permanently blinded by the sun you believe shines out of it.
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Let\'s refrain from the personal insults please. Everyone else seems to be discussing this maturely so it isn\'t that hard.
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Axsyrus notes,\"
wow, did it actually took you hours to get out of that dungeon, sorry didn\'t know you were that stupid.. there is something called a chat window, you can always ask \"
Normally, I don\'t respond to anyone who personally attacks me,but for the record, I did use the chat and did shout a request for help and did use \"say\" and got NO response!
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in part i agree with mogura and axysyrus
Firstly there is no need for personal coment of that nature
Secondly in all honesty it is not that hard to get out of the well i got out in about 5 minutes after falling in after colecting a few crystals... its nothing difficult just get to the bottom climb the ladder go up the slope then round the staircase and then keep gonig up you will get out eventualy
Thirdly i am agisnt any kind of icon next to players as this removes roleplay value from the game you should HAVE to ask if there a trainer of some kind do people in real life have a floating icon of some 1 pumping weigts to show there a personal trainer i don\'t think they do :P
4th i agree the conversations with npcs are very tedious right now but there being improved i can say from a source in the dev team no i cant say who it is ;) that the npcs will be able to respond a hell of alot
better as soon as cb is out almost all phrases will be responded to too i beleive as long as there arn\'t any careless spelling mistakes
5th complicated dungeons arnt the greastest things ho ever huge dungeons are and complex 1\'s are two difrent things i would love to see some kind of massive dungeon which contains alot of things maybe even subterain towns that belong to the dwarfian races
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IMHO i also think that nobody must help people from getting out dungeons. If someone is lost, finding an exit is a good way for it to begin to learn the game (and if he dies in the attempt, at least it is now out of the dungeon :D).
If you want everything without finding, better play a solo-game with your tip-magazine on the knees but IMHO in a MMORPG you must learn to try and fail. There\'s no interest in always winning without contest. If the only thing you do is typing on your keyboard obvious command, i think you waste your time...
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oh, and one thing i forgot to say, if you hate difficult dungeons, i would better start playing another game, because PlaneShift will have a massive dungeon in it called: \"The Stone Labyrinths\"
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hehee, this is true, and i hope i can get lost for weeks at a time, surviving only only what i can scrounge from the bodies of those who have fallen on their journeys...
Jessyn
Of course, i would still like to see a nice way to distinguish between NPC\'s and PC\'s.
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axy why are you being such a prick? so he comes off as rather arragant many people do i dont think he meant it too come off that way intentionaly and if your going to have our guild logo on then behave repsectably you portray Ao ina very bad light with that kind of manner i expect better of you
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I\'m just telling him the truth -_-;;
a large part of the settings page is about the stone labyrints, so if he doesn\'t like dungeons, it looks like he has a problem..
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There\'s also the fact that we don\'t know in what state the Labyrinths are. Maybe they\'ve all crumbled and it\'s just a rocky cave. We\'ll see...
Back ot nopic, I disagree with the icon identification. If you can\'t indentify one from his actions or clothes, you should ask him.
I like labyrinths(riddles in general). We just need a compas first- I dunno if there\'s one yet.
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The Bronze Doors, located along the perimeter of the first level, access the Stone Labyrinths, a complex of both natural and artificial caves as ancient as the town itself. It is sure that some of them lead to places similar to Yliakum and even to the surface, but nobody ever came back to report such a discovery. The Stone Labyrinths are one of the sources of food and resources for the city. Inhabitants of Yliakum hunt not only the animals inside these caves for their edible meat and warm furs, but also fungi, molds, and saprophytes. These plants cannot be found elsewhere, since there are no other suitable environments for them, and their curative and helpful properties are valuable to the people. Like all places, there are also more pernicious and aggressive creatures living here as well from each of the four natural kingdoms. Hunters and gatherers must keep an eye out for these predators, who create an obstacle for those who venture in the less controlled and more dangerous tunnels of the Stone Labyrinths. As always in places of danger, great sources of wealth are just waiting in these caves for someone clever enough to find and profit from them.
it\'s pretty obvious that they will be important, and that they won\'t be easy to get out of once you\'ve gone to far.