PlaneShift

Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: lynx_lupo on November 10, 2003, 07:49:31 pm

Title: Passive-agressive fighters
Post by: lynx_lupo on November 10, 2003, 07:49:31 pm
By that  ;) title, I mean \"buffers\" in combat, like healers and mages.

I\'ve never played any MMORPGs, so I don\'t know how this is solved. How (much) does a healer get XP from  combat? He didn\'t kill anyone, but he did help sustaining the life of fellow fighters. ???
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Post by: Xordan on November 10, 2003, 08:03:22 pm
lol, good question. The answer is; the more he heals, the better he becomes at healing. He wont improve in combat unless he actually fights.
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Post by: Caldazar on November 10, 2003, 08:03:45 pm
I think you get XP in the way of magic you use fromm healing someone.
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Post by: lynx_lupo on November 10, 2003, 08:15:00 pm
Xordan: you don\'t get it.

Cladazar: Yeah, but how much? Mana=k*XP doesn\'t sound good. I could probably cast spells at nothing and still get XP. How is it solved?
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Post by: Caldazar on November 10, 2003, 08:21:32 pm
Not a clue.. log on to the DEV-channel and ask them for the formula?
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Post by: lynx_lupo on November 10, 2003, 08:32:55 pm
well, the problem of the formula is that it should be a whole line long to make any sense.
I\'ll just wait for another reply. Hasn\'t anyone ever played a cleric/druid/multi/dual...?

What dev channel?
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Post by: Xordan on November 10, 2003, 08:47:34 pm
I dont get it...... (As u said)
What do u want to know? How much Xp u\'ll get from healing someone? Or how much xp u\'ll get for healing someone in combat? They would be the same.
If it\'s none of these then I havn\'t a clue what u\'r on about.

The dev IRC channel.
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Post by: Caldazar on November 10, 2003, 08:53:40 pm
Quote
Originally posted by lynx_lupo
well, the problem of the formula is that it should be a whole line long to make any sense.
I\'ll just wait for another reply. Hasn\'t anyone ever played a cleric/druid/multi/dual...?

What dev channel?

irc.freenode.com #planeshift
..or so I think.
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Post by: Axsyrus on November 10, 2003, 08:55:06 pm
you usually don?t get XP for healing people, you get XP when you?ve particaped in a battle(doesn?t matter in what way) and won
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Post by: Xordan on November 10, 2003, 08:57:21 pm
Um, the whole idea of the PS skill system is that u have to practise the skill u want to raise. E.g. Not getting better at healing because u managed to slice a monter apart.
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Post by: lynx_lupo on November 10, 2003, 09:02:13 pm
Xordan: you hit it with the previous post, but this... nonono

Axsyrus: So my party goes to kill a dragon, I come along later, cast a minor spell, get lost, the party wins and I still get a big XP percentage from my \"action\"? I mean, it\'s hard to evaluate passive contributions to combat. That\'s what I wanna know, how is it solved.
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Post by: elscouta on November 10, 2003, 09:03:06 pm
And that\'s better because a spy for example will try to avoid combat as much as possible. And if he don\'t gain steath skills when he\'s in mission, spies will not be really powerful :P same applies for enchanters, druids, blacksmith...
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Post by: Axsyrus on November 10, 2003, 09:05:51 pm
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So my party goes to kill a dragon, I come along later, cast a minor spell, get lost, the party wins and I still get a big XP percentage from my \"action\"? I mean, it\'s hard to evaluate passive contributions to combat. That\'s what I wanna know, how is it solved.


This is how most rpg?s do it, i hope PS won?t do it like this, you should just be able to train your skills by practicing i think..
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Post by: lynx_lupo on November 10, 2003, 09:08:17 pm
I agree. XP levels should be only for HP and saving throws etc... Skill shouldn\'t be affected.

But as my example shows, now anybody can come in a fight and leech XP, without doing much.
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Post by: elscouta on November 10, 2003, 09:10:30 pm
no Hp and saving through should be related to endurance, magic resistance that must be skilled. And you will gain level in these skills when you are hit (or maybe by jogging for endurance)
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Post by: lynx_lupo on November 10, 2003, 09:16:46 pm
I just mentioned it, the point was elsewhere. Skills should be trained or furthered by events.

BUT HOW ABOUT THE COMBAT?  ;(
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Post by: elscouta on November 10, 2003, 09:24:10 pm
healers and Cie will not gain skills for fighting. Only when they heal someone (same applies to mages)

I think the following rules must be applied:
- if the healer heals someone that is not wound, exp gain is negligeable.
- exp gain increase when the spell is more difficult to cast (i.e. cast time and mana)
- if he helps someone who is fighting, exp gain is multiplicated by 1.5
- if he heals someone more than once while its target hasn\'t fought, exp gain decrease (avoid cheating)

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Post by: lynx_lupo on November 10, 2003, 09:31:20 pm
Ahh closer! :D

I agree your points :], just your first line is strange. You made it sound like a healer would fight to better his healing skills and heal to better his fighting ones.  :(

- 4. Well that would depend, what if one didn\'t cast a healing but a buffing spell? See...
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Post by: Kiva on November 10, 2003, 11:12:15 pm
This could work for both fighting/healing magics:

Little/MuchXpFromCastingSmall/BigSpell + ( AmountOfWoundsHealed/Damaged * XPForHealing/DamagingWounds )

This one could work for buffing spells:

Little/MuchXpFromCastingSmall/BigSpell + ( ( TimeTheSpellLasts + HowGoodProtection/EnhancementTheSpellGives ) * XPForCastingBuffSpell )

Now if this doesn\'t make sense, I\'ll just try and explain it quickly.

When you heal/damage, you get XP for the amount of wounds healed/damaged, as well as XP for the spell itself.

When you buff, you get XP for how long and how protective/helpful the spell is, as well as for the spell itself.


I\'m not sure that you can prevent \"cheating\" with the buff spell one, as making it give XP only by casting it on others would be weird, but at least the healing formula should work good enough... However, I have no idea how the Devs are gonna solve this magic stuff. :)

Edit: Typos
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Post by: lynx_lupo on November 10, 2003, 11:53:45 pm
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Originally posted by Gronomist
This could work for both fighting/healing magics:

Little/MuchXpFromCastingSmall/BigSpell + ( AmountOfWoundsHealed/Damaged * XPForHealing/DamagingWounds )

with XPForHealing/DamagingWounds you mean the unit, right. It just has a funny name.
Otherwise it seems good. :)

Quote

This one could work for buffing spells:

Little/MuchXpFromCastingSmall/BigSpell + ( ( TimeTheSpellLasts + HowGoodProtection/EnhancementTheSpellGives ) * XPForCastingBuffSpell )

XPForCastingBuffSpell is the unit again.
I think this would work better:
XpFromCastingSpell + (TimeTheSpellLasts*SpellFX*unit)
Before the duration wasn\'t linked with the others so dynamically(you would need another unit for it)


Hm, buffing. Even if it\'s restricted to areas(dynamically, oc) it would be possible to cheat.  ?(
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Post by: Kiva on November 11, 2003, 12:57:34 am
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Originally posted by lynx_lupo
[with XPForHealing/DamagingWounds you mean the unit, right. It just has a funny name.
Otherwise it seems good. :)


Lemme make an example using the following spell:

Fireball - Typical mage spell that blasts something into oblivion.

Now, I get 500 XP in the Red Way for casting the Fireball itself. Now, I\'m fighting a mob that has 100 wounds, and gives 10,000 XP. TotalXP / Wounds = 100 XP per wound. Okay then, I hit the mob for 50 wounds, meaning I gain 5,000 XP...

Therefor, I get:

500 XP + ( 50 * 100 ) = 5,500 XP in the Red Way for casting a Fireball... Simple, huh? :D
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Post by: lynx_lupo on November 11, 2003, 09:33:49 am
Yes. :)  Until you integrate and make a circle out of it, it\'s simple. :D

So it is a unit, just that it\'s dinamically calced. It could be replaced by TotalXP / AllWounds and voila, an all in 1 equation\'s there.
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Post by: Kiva on November 11, 2003, 09:39:55 am
However, I\'m almost certain that our Dev friends have cooked up something far less understandable than a simple equasion. Wouldn\'t surprise me if Paxx somehow managed to get everyone confused - if he ever decided to tell people what the exact way to get XP would be, that is.. :D
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Post by: lynx_lupo on November 11, 2003, 09:46:00 am
I agree, they probably made sth more complex. But it has to be an equation otherwise you can\'t feed it to a computer.