PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Kramy on November 25, 2003, 01:57:54 am
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Ok, I\'ve decided to get Linux, but I think I\'m missing something.
a) Instructions
b) A file that will run in windows or dos, to install Linux
Can anyone help? Thanks if you can.
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Selling instructions is how the Linux companies make money. I think.
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I have to agree with you.
I\'m not even sure I\'m downloading the right files. It doesn\'t say anywhere what I have to install to actually get the Linux OS......blah, windows may crash a ton, but atleast they have readme\'s.
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All is there. You\'re dling an iso? Open it with winrar(...) and check the readmes or wait and burn it first. AFAIK every distro can be setup-ed from dos(but why would you want to do that?!).
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A) everything you need is on the ISO\'s and it says how to use them on the website
B) just download the ISO\'s and use a program that can read those(Daemon Tools (http://www.daemon-tools.cc/portal/portal.php) is very useful for this) this will start the linux installer.
if you\'re sure about installing linux, drop by at the planeshift irc channel(#planeshift @ irc.quakenet.org) people will help you there.
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How hard is it to setup a LAN with computers that use windows XP and Linux? Im thinking about switching to Linux, but Im not quite sure, since I\'m at LANs pretty often..
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probably not so hard. Networks are the strong point of Linux/Unixs. Never tried though...
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Originally posted by Caldazar
How hard is it to setup a LAN with computers that use windows XP and Linux? Im thinking about switching to Linux, but Im not quite sure, since I\'m at LANs pretty often..
depends on what kind of network you want to set up
samba allows windows clients to access Linux servers and vice versa. also linux is made for networking so it has excellent support for a number of protocols.
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Originally posted by zaphar
Originally posted by Caldazar
How hard is it to setup a LAN with computers that use windows XP and Linux? Im thinking about switching to Linux, but Im not quite sure, since I\'m at LANs pretty often..
depends on what kind of network you want to set up
samba allows windows clients to access Linux servers and vice versa. also linux is made for networking so it has excellent support for a number of protocols.
I\'m by no means a computer-wiz, I just want to know if it\'s easy to set up an ordinary LAN.
You know: computer >> switch <I take it that its RATHER easy?
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I think It\'s probably easier than windows.
I\'m fed up with windows. My version is really slow for FTP, and can\'t upload via FTP. It can\'t network due to some bug in it, and it crashes when I try to save .avi files, making 3D rendering of combat in 2D games impossible.
I wonder if there are any free 3D rendering Linux tools...
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If you want a super-duper easy install of Linux, I would definitely recommend Suse (http://www.suse.com) Linux. It was the first distribution of Linux I was ever exposed to, and I assure you that I had very minimal knowledge of Linux when I installed it. Once you have the installation CD\'s (downloadable free via FTP and burned onto CD-R) it\'s just a matter of booting from the first CD to run the install wizard.
And seriously, the installation wizard is just as easy as installing any version of Windows. It recognizes pretty much any device (even my USB mouse) and configures it automatically. All you need to do is provide some basic information and the setp will take care of the rest.
When it comes to installing to your hard drive, the setup (I\'m 90% sure that it\'s this distro that has it) has a feature that will resize your Windows partition (I can\'t remember if it\'s only FAT/FAT32 or if NTFS will work as well) and create another partition on your hard drive to install Linux on.
NOTE: ONLY use this option if you do not have any other hard drive you could use to install Linux on, and if you have at least 3 gigabytes of space free on your drive. If you do choose this option, MAKE SURE you do the following:
1) Assume that the worst may happen, and your partition becomes corrupted (it\'s not likely to happen, but it\'s always possible, so you must prepare for the worst)
2) Backup all critical data to a place other than your hard drive (trust me, I\'ve heard of people backing up data to the same hard drive; this doesn\'t help any :( ). Use CD/DVD-R/RW, another computer on the network, external storage (USB drive, zip drive), or anything else that stores data off your hard drive
3) Run the defragmentation utility that comes with Windows. The easiest way to do this is to open \"My Computer,\" right-click the drive you want to defrag, select \"Properties,\" go to the \"Tools\" tab, and click \"Defragment Now...\" (I\'m running WinXP, so the exact location may be slightly different; if all fails run Windows Help and search for \"defragment\")
4) Make sure you have an appropriate Restore CD (these usually come with pre-made computers) or a set of Windows CD\'s and all the install CD\'s that you would need to do a complete reinstall of your system.
Simply put: Do not proceed with this option unless you are 100% sure you could restore your previous setup in case. Even if you know what you\'re doing and already have a separate partition on your hard drive set aside for Linux, follow these steps anyway.
Again, if you choose this option, everything should work fine. However, I cannot stress enough how something could go wrong, and cause you to loose all of your data.
Now that I\'ve said all this, don\'t come crying to me if you didn\'t pay attention and erased everything on your computer. I feel no symapthy for you.
Finally, you can feel safer knowing that the install will not do ANYTHING to modify your system until all settings have been specified, and a summary screen comes up. In essence, the message is \"The following changes will be made you computer. Please review each step carefully to ensure that it is correct, and press the \'Next\' button to continue.\" Until this point, any changes, including re-partitioning and formatting will not be applied. So feel free to tinker around and try different settings, because it won\'t take effect until this screen.
If you have any more questions, feel free to chat in the dev IRC channel (where usually I or some other knowledgable person will be present to help you) or send me a PM.
Have fun, and happy Linuxing!! :D
EDIT: I forgot to mention that the complete Suse installation includes 7 or more CD\'s. The first CD is the base system, and I think it also has GNOME and KDE (the graphical environments, be sure to install one or you\'ll be stuck with a command prompt) on it. The rest of the CD\'s contain a lot of applications, and I think the 6th or 7th CD contains the kernel source code (useful if you want to compile your own kernel, but that\'s an advanced topic for another day ;) ). So you should be able to get by with only the first CD, but I would recommend probably the second and third as well, as they probably contain some of the more useful apps.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and make sure you get the i386 version, unless you\'re using a Mac or an Amiga or something...
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I use a wireless Netgear home network (mostly to route our internet connection). If I switched to Linux, would it be compatible with the rest of my network?
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Nowadays, you can find Linux drives for just about anything. Most of they time, they can be found in the Linux distribution itself, though sometimes you have to try searching for them on the web. So figure out the exact model of network card you use (using \"Device Manager\") and just do a web search for \"xxxx Linux Drivers\" where \'xxxx\' is the model or your network card.
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Originally posted by Kramy
I think It\'s probably easier than windows.
Seriously? Because windows is just plug the cable and then play.
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Originally posted by Caldazar
Originally posted by Kramy
I think It\'s probably easier than windows.
Seriously? Because windows is just plug the cable and then play.
Are you sure? Did you never setup your local ip? Rebooted because you just changed something like the mask or the gateway? I won\'t even talk about the mess when it\'s about sharing files between different working groups on different versions of windows. Unless you have a dhcp server on your network, you\'ll always need to setup at least once your network card.
Back to the main topic, I agree with Xandria: get a Suse (or a Mandrake or a Red Hat). Every distro is available on bootable CDs, you won\'t have to launch anything from windows (unless your bios is too old to boot on CD).
About documentation, Mandrake (don\'t know for the others) provides one on the CD itself, you can read it from windows. And there are tons of websites out there explaining how to install linux, you probably didn\'t search well in google.
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Caldazar,
I have found that the singularly most difficult part of Linux (in most cases) is getting everything installed, and finding all the drivers for your devices, and getting everything configured to work right.
However, when (for me it\'s usually \'if\' ;) ) you get everything working, Linux is very stable and tends to have very few problems while it is running. Even if you get an application error, you can usually continue on whereas in Windows you\'d have to wait for a reboot. In Windows, if your GUI somehow freezes and you can\'t get to \"Task Manager\" to close anything, you\'re pretty much screwed. Most Linux GUI\'s have a key combination (something like Ctrl+Alt+F1) that will drop you out to a command prompt, where you can \"kill\" the offending app, then switch back to the GUI (or if it got messed up, you can just switch runlevels back and forth to relaunch the GUI, but you still don\'t need to reboot).
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Um...Xandria, that sounds just like my windows. I\'m fed up with the fatal errors, but they don\'t actually do anything except close the offending program, and the only time my windows ever froze was today when I install \"Daemon Tools\". I just got 14 illegal operations from trying different methods of making a .avi file.
If Linux crashes just as much as windows...than that sucks, since I\'ve managed to get my windows to become very \"stable\", by your definition, too....other than annoying program crashes. The last time I had to reboot from an error was over a year and a half ago, and since then I\'ve had hundreds of illegal operations that don\'t bug windows at all.
Maybe the newer windows OS\'s are different. *shrugs*
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Xandria, I don\'t have access to a working CD burner. It sucks that Linux companies leave out minor details like instructions(like 1. YOU REQUIRE A CD BURNER), but I guess I should have known ahead of time, since every Linux program I\'ve encountered has been a pain(and so far I\'ve encounter 0 tech support for Linux/Windows programs.....other than these forums :) ).
Anyway, any tips for an install from DOS?
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Lucky you!
And linux doesn\'t freeze. I know only of one distant in the past report of a red screen. But it\'s true that you have to make things work first...but then it\'s all plain music! :D
Read these two:
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Loopback-Root-FS.html
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/DOS-Win-to-Linux-HOWTO.html
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About that question, if linux can live with a windows neighbour:
I have a linux gateway (a computer that I use so that my local network can get on the internet). It can see windows computers and interact with them. It even untherstands file sharing unther windows (the SAMBA protocol). My computers use my dns server on my server. I also have a laptop that runs on linux. It works great with windows computers.
So in short I can say that linux can live with windows.
Big note: Remeber how long it took for you to untherstand how to use windows. Hold on to that and think about doing that whole process over again. \"Real\" linux looks like does but has other programs (dir = ls = list in linux). There are other program that do thing visual for you, truh. But thats keeps you from learning from learning the real linux in the system and can become realy confusing.
Some distro\'s you can look at:
- mandrake
- suse
- slackware
- gentoo
from easy to more difficult.
I use gentoo btw. Because when you have set things up, it will do every thing for you in 2 command lines (emerge sync
emerge world).
I hope this gives you some answers
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kronon: I currently have a couple gentoo installs on a few hard drives around here. It is quite a fun distribution to try, because it basically teaches you about what Linux really is, because you basically have to start from scratch. I also like the \"emerge\" feature; it makes things so easier than downloading a package, then trying to download all the dependent packages, etc. However, I think it\'s a bit much for Linux newbies to digest all at once.
lynx_lupo: Those links look very interesting; as soon as I get thet time to read them I will. I just read about using Linux from a loopback file, and it all sounded very cool. Thanks for the links!
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Heh, no problem. Anything for the Liberation of the world from The Tyrant. :D
And the links are standard package HOW-TOs. Strange you haven\'t noticed them before.
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Hmm...I think I just discovered the difference between linux and windows.
Windows lets you delete important files - crashes are innevitable if you do.
Linux does not let you delete important files - keeps idiots from screwing up their OS.
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Linux is looking more and more like DOS. I don\'t want to learn all that gibberish, I just want a \"Windows\" that doesn\'t crash when I try to save .avi files.
Maybe I should just get windows XP. It\'s supposed to be more stable, and ideal for newer games - plus all the programs I already have will work on it.
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Could you answer one question for me though?
Is there a reason to switch to Linux if you don\'t want to learn its language? All those HOWTO\'s say \"no\", basically, and I was under the impression it was just more stable than windows, not more like DOS.
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As long as you\'re not root, it\'s near failsafe.
First answer this:have you ran the X server... basically, did you have a graphical interface? If you didn\'t then I understand the whole DOS thing. But do note that you\'ll probably have to learn some of it\'s commands...np, it comes with use...
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Originally posted by Kramy
Linux is looking more and more like DOS. I don\'t want to learn all that gibberish, I just want a \"Windows\" that doesn\'t crash when I try to save .avi files.
uhmm.. have you installed Linux already??
i personnaly think X-server looks way better than the crappy win xp gui, but that\'s just my opinion. and you don\'t have to do anything in command-line mode if you just want to do simple stuff like watching movies etc.
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Every time I read a help file for Linux it makes things even more confusing.
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Installing your linux is simple! Just type the following:
***
60 lines of DOS gibberish
***
And there you have it, it\'s now installed. Now type this to log in:
***
4 lines of DOS gibberish
***
Now you\'ll be in a command prompt.....
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It would be so much nicer if it had instructions like this...
1. Download \"filename1.ext\", \"filename2.ext\", and \"filename3.ext\"
2. Open them in WinRar
3. Extract Files to any location(Ex. F:/Linux
4. Run \"setup.bat\" from dos and follow instructions.
Axsyrus: Make movies, not watch. Does Linux have free movie creation software?
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Kramy, some Linux setups (Suse, I mentioned, is one of them) which has a graphical setup program, and once installed will automatically use the graphical user interface that you choose.
There are several companies/groups trying to make Linux distributions for people like you, who don\'t need/want to learn all the Linux commands you need to use the command-line mode.
However, most of these easy Linux distributions require you to boot from an installation CD, since you can\'t run them from within Windows (none of them that I have found, anyway). Your lack of a CD burner does make this a difficult problem. You can buy box copies of Linux distributions for a moderate amount of cash (the Suse 9.0 personal edition is $40, but I believe that also enables you to call their tech support line for no extra cost); but it\'s sure a lot cheaper than the >$150 you\'ll pay for WinXP. You could also as a friend with a good connection and CD burner to make you the first couple discs.
Axsyrus: X-server isn\'t a GUI; it\'s more of the basic framework for the GUI (I\'m not really sure how to describe it, exactly). The GUI in Linux is commonly referred to as the \"Window Manager.\" The earliest (and most simple) ones are twm, xdm, and so on. Most people use the newer ones (which I agree, are very nice looking) such as Gnome or KDE.
EDIT: I also found this link while browsing Suse\'s website:
http://www.suse.com/us/private/products/suse_linux/i386/10_reasons.html
Just for those people who were asking what some of the advantages/features of Linux are :)
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Xandria, that was very helpful! Thanks for finding that for me. Now the only problem is getting it burned on a CD. I think I have a solution though.
a) download Suse Linux - shouldn\'t take long
b) Use USB to transfer downloaded files to friend\'s laptop
c) Use USB to transfer from laptop to friend\'s comp which has a CD Burner.
Too bad Cable is so slow around here, or my friend could download it himself. :D
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I\'m not entirely sure getting a user-friendly unix OS is in your best interests. It might even hurt you in the long run.
I recommend getting Fedora. It\'s sponsored by Red Hat, and has automatic updates (Red Hat needs you to create an account and all that crap). After that, it\'s a matter of reading HOW-TOS and perhaps a book.
To script your firewall, go to netfilter.com and read read read. Once you\'ve caught on to the stuff, you\'ll probably really appreciate linux and all its free software.
I ban Dot net and other Microsoft products in favor of everything free. Did you know that I recently had to re-install windows, which wiped out my linux partition because it\'s dumb bootloader doesn\'t recognize it?
Anyway, when you really get going in linux, everything will become more fun. Did I say Microsoft sucks?
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Originally posted by Kramy
Hmm...I think I just discovered the difference between linux and windows.
Windows lets you delete important files - crashes are innevitable if you do.
Linux does not let you delete important files - keeps idiots from screwing up their OS.
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Linux is looking more and more like DOS. I don\'t want to learn all that gibberish, I just want a \"Windows\" that doesn\'t crash when I try to save .avi files.
Maybe I should just get windows XP. It\'s supposed to be more stable, and ideal for newer games - plus all the programs I already have will work on it.
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Could you answer one question for me though?
Is there a reason to switch to Linux if you don\'t want to learn its language? All those HOWTO\'s say \"no\", basically, and I was under the impression it was just more stable than windows, not more like DOS.
The difference btw linux and windows is this:
Linux: Everything is FREE... even saves millions with its opensource softwares!! Has killer apps like apache2 server. Scriptable firewall that\'ll actually hide your comp all the way.
Windows: not free. Full of annoying bugs. Copyright issues changing all the time messes up programs I own. Crashes more often than linux.... On the other hand, windows is a common platform for games... the few reasons people still use it. ZoneAlarm firewall (among other products) is inferior... doesn\'t hide you all the way.
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So what you\'re saying is that I should install a better windows BEFORE I install linux, or it could get messed up?
Windows is also the ideal newbie designer platform, since it has loads of not-so-great stuff that\'s free.
I\'m looking into SUSE, but first I want a new HD. All of mine are almost full, and there doesn\'t seem to be a point installing Linux if I don\'t have any apps for it.
Rageburst: Technically Windows is free(almost) if you get an old copy.
Windows 95 - 9.95
Windows 98 - 19.95
Windows ME - 29.95
Usually they can be found in the bargain bin at places like staples.
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Originally posted by Kramy
So what you\'re saying is that I should install a better windows BEFORE I install linux, or it could get messed up?
Windows is also the ideal newbie designer platform, since it has loads of not-so-great stuff that\'s free.
I\'m looking into SUSE, but first I want a new HD. All of mine are almost full, and there doesn\'t seem to be a point installing Linux if I don\'t have any apps for it.
Rageburst: Technically Windows is free(almost) if you get an old copy.
Windows 95 - 9.95
Windows 98 - 19.95
Windows ME - 29.95
Usually they can be found in the bargain bin at places like staples.
I don\'t mean Windows can be free.... hell, you can rip it off anywhere.
I meant that their programming languages and softwares are not free. You need to license them to legally use them.... Dot net for example.
It could costs almost more than twice as much thousand dollars to set up a company server on windows.... sounds fetching business-wise?
And instead of using user-friendly linux, I recommend learning the commands... that\'s where most of the power comes from. And you get to feel geeky.
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Originally posted by Rageburst
I\'m not entirely sure getting a user-friendly unix OS is in your best interests. It might even hurt you in the long run.
Yes, learning the commands are quite useful, but it\'s not required for people who can get everything done in the GUI. The only problem is that if something goes wrong, you usually have to fix it at the command line.
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I know we\'re not supposed to flame and post hateful messages... but good god Kramy\'s posts give me a seizure. Linux is definitely not the OS for him.
First and foremost, I don\'t mean any offense to you Kramy, but at this point in time Linux takes a lot of patience and dedication, that which you don\'t have. If you take time to look there are hundreds of thousdands of help files and websites devoted to helping people use Linux - more than I\'ve ever found for Windows. Secondly, Windows is NOT free, no matter how you want to put it. You can pirate it all you want, but that still does not make it free. Sure you pay no money for it, but Linux is free as in free speech, not free beer. It\'s not something that\'s complementary to Windows or runs otop of it - it is it\'s own seperate entity. Linux is not the OS that doesn\'t let you delete important files - it\'s far from that. Windows, unlike what you stated earlier, protects you from doing many things to your computer. Linux does not and will not (once you have proper permissions) hold you back from doing anything to your system. That\'s why things like the user hierarchy where created. For example, once logged in as the superuser, all you have to do is type in \"rm -rf /\" (what you so fondly called \'DOS gibberish\') and wait several minutes. When you reboot your computer there will not be a single file left on the machine.
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Neat, but that\'s dangerous since I have parents that like to type things.
I\'m worried since if they type in the wrong thing Linux will format my hard drive. Think I\'ll get a new HD or a CD Burner before I install Linux. :D
Edit: I\'m very patient and dedicated, just not to useless things.
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Linux probably wont give you very many advantages over Windows. It\'s something new and interesting to mess with, but unless you\'re a really serious power user it doesn\'t make much sense to keep using it.
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Hmm.....maybe I should upgrade to Windows ME then? I hate upgrading windows, since it always has bugs after being converted, but Windows ME doesn\'t have some of the bugs in 98, which would be helpful.
I guess I\'ll make my final decision after getting a new HD. Thanks Bogo. :)
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Originally posted by Kramy
Hmm.....maybe I should upgrade to Windows ME then? I hate upgrading windows, since it always has bugs after being converted, but Windows ME doesn\'t have some of the bugs in 98, which would be helpful.
GAA! Anything BUT Windows ME..... That was probobly the worst OS Microsoft has ever made... its absolutely terrible. I didn\'t like windows 98, and tried ME, but it was even more unstable....
Btw, this is not a personal opinion on it, I\'ve worked in a computer shop (sales mind you, so im not a tech guru) but everyone I\'ve talked to who has used it has eventually switched, or wanted to switch away from ME... its just that bad.
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I second that.
And your parents can\'t screw linux unless you give them root(admin) privileges- which is stupid anyway.
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First of all, I have never used Windows ME because everything I heard about it said it was terrible.
Second of all, you should NEVER upgrade a system that you\'ve been using for any extended period of time. There is always stuff that gets messed up; it\'s just not worth it. Back up all your files to a CD, or another networked computer, or USB, or another hard drive (the easiest option, anyway :P). Then do a complete reformat of your hard drive and do a fresh install of Windows. If you have an upgrade CD, then just install the prior version of Windows new, then run the install right after it.
But please don\'t use the upgrade feature, it causes way too may more problems that it\'s worth :(
And lynx_lupo is correct: as long as you restrict user accounts, your system will be very safe (after all, Linux was built with security in mind). And never ever use root unless you absolutely have to. Even us super-users can make mistakes at times :P
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Hmm, I\'m going to remember that. Windows ME = Bad.
I\'ll be sure to restrict access when I install Linux to make sure nobody can accidentally delete an entire hd.(myself included)
Thanks everyone! :)
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Your best bet is either Windows 2000 Pro or Windows XP Pro.
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Bogo: have you tried Linux?
Seems you know nothing on the topic...
And please Tepsu, DON\'T POST HERE!!! 8)
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Lol my Laptop and my server both run Gentoo Linux and have so for the past year and a half :) Before that slackware and before that debian. Way back in the day I tried out Storm Linux 2000, RedHat, and Mandrake. I\'ve also tried my fair share of FreeBSD, and although it\'s extremely good, I\'d rather just stick with what I\'m most comfortable with. I\'m just trying to keep him from getting frustrated with it and then deciding to spam on this forum about how much Linux sucks.