PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: druke on December 10, 2003, 04:09:30 pm
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i am curious as to how people think the system should be, do people think the magic system for example should be complex, and require some studying, or should it just be, click read scroll, the rest,then cast spell.
Other than magic, fighting, should fighting just be hit a button to attack or should it be like a FPS(first person slasher 8) ) or so,e other variation of the two.
Stealing/sneaking, should animate npcs have an awarness range or should they just be in line of sight, how about a noise level.
History, how many would like a long complex story about different groups in the world
just curious, no goods discussion threads about.
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there are quite a few threads about magics in the wish list forums. i think it should be complicated to find out a spell but simple to cast it, so you won\'t have to do all kinds of complicated things in battle.
about fighting, i think that depends on the quest you\'re doing and what kind of character you have, a rogue obviously has to be quiet and make sure he doesn\'t get seen, a knight however can just walk in and start killing.
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there are quite a few threads about magics in the wish list forums.
no no. this isn\'t about what we are asking the devs, the magic system ahs beenw ritten, i just want to her people\'s preference
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I like the system in StarWars: Knights of the old republic
You simple select a few actions before the battle starts, but u can change them later
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I\'ve always admired games that take true skill. For example, has anyone seen the game \"Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates\"? Basically, its a pirate RPG in which players man vessels and go out on missions and combat. However, every task that might be represented by stat checks in a RPG is instead represented by a puzzle; simple tasks have simple puzzles, while more difficult tasks have more difficult puzzles. Anyone could be successful at a puzzle, but some people are truly great at what they do and make the ship run at maximum capacity. There\'s really not enough games like this, probably because these would be very difficult to design.
I would love to play a game where wizards are rare due to the difficulty in becoming a good one.
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Originally posted by Axsyrus
there are quite a few threads about magics in the wish list forums. i think it should be complicated to find out a spell but simple to cast it, so you won\'t have to do all kinds of complicated things in battle.
about fighting, i think that depends on the quest you\'re doing and what kind of character you have, a rogue obviously has to be quiet and make sure he doesn\'t get seen, a knight however can just walk in and start killing.
yeah i like things to be simple, but make it difficult to find them, but you could make some things harder to cast than others etc.
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Originally posted by Grakrim
I\'ve always admired games that take true skill. For example, has anyone seen the game \"Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates\"? Basically, its a pirate RPG in which players man vessels and go out on missions and combat. However, every task that might be represented by stat checks in a RPG is instead represented by a puzzle; simple tasks have simple puzzles, while more difficult tasks have more difficult puzzles. Anyone could be successful at a puzzle, but some people are truly great at what they do and make the ship run at maximum capacity. There\'s really not enough games like this, probably because these would be very difficult to design.
I would love to play a game where wizards are rare due to the difficulty in becoming a good one.
good thing we won\'t see something like that in Planeshift :P
ruining RP in mmorpg.... just isn\'t right...
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Originally posted by Draklar
good thing we won\'t see something like that in Planeshift :P
ruining RP in mmorpg.... just isn\'t right...
Ruin RP? How so? The puzzles in that pirate game I mentioned fit in pretty well. For example, the carpenter puzzle (which repairs damage to the ship) involves pluging holes with boards, if you were too slow, the holes would expand. Success in this puzzle means using as few boards as possible. Some of the puzzles are more abstract, namely the social or competitive puzzles (drinking game and combat, namely).
I probably should have clarified, I\'ve always admired games that take true skill that actually make sense in the setting.
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Originally posted by Grakrim
Ruin RP? How so?
The great thing about RPGs is that you can be anyone. So even one that isn\'t that smart in rl, may become great mage ingame... That\'s how adding need of real skills would ruin it.
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but you do need some sort of skill in a game, if a game isn\'t challenging then genrally its pretty boring after the first 20 minutes well unless your completely dimwitted
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Indeed...
there is one very important skill
it is \'roleplaying skill\' :P
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yes but you need something more like decent puzzles that actually \"challenge\" you. But when you have puzzles etc. as part of quests then they have to be integrated well.
easy games are just boring. period.
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Depends how good roleplayer are you...
if yer gonna roleplay dumb kran, you probably shouldn\'t go for puzzle-quest even if you\'d know how to solve it.
Sad part is you can\'t do it other way...
and i think devs want minimum of player skills in Planeshift
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minimum of player skills?
games are all about challenges, yeah i agree that roleplaying can be fun as a challenge. but it can\'t satisfy everything. I dont want it really hard to like cast spells or anything, but say you want a really good spell you have to gain it by doing something challenging weak speels = easy to gain hard spell = hard to get and it can be the same with fighting skills. challenges like this can be optional but youll be rewarded better.
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Originally posted by Xelon
but say you want a really good spell you have to gain it by doing something challenging
yea, so you go for some quest or go to some hard-to-get place... or both
player skills won\'t be that needed.
Tho i get your point that quests should be harder and ridles would be cool.
But it might be better to make this \'inteligence\' stat useful for something more than just cast some spells...
yeah i agree that roleplaying can be fun as a challenge. but it can\'t satisfy everything.
as a p&p RPG player i must say it can...
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Originally posted by Draklar
Originally posted by Xelon
but say you want a really good spell you have to gain it by doing something challenging
yea, so you go for some quest or go to some hard-to-get place... or both
player skills won\'t be that needed.
Tho i get your point that quests should be harder and ridles would be cool.
But it might be better to make this \'inteligence\' stat useful for something more than just cast some spells...
but say you go to a really hard to get place then the monsters or whatever there would be hard to beat and you would have to defeat these, so you would have to use player skills for strength etc.
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Originally posted by Xelon
but say you go to a really hard to get place then the monsters or whatever there would be hard to beat and you would have to defeat these, so you would have to use player skills for strength etc.
In this case you only use character stats and skills...
I don\'t see why do you want to add player skills in something like that :/
Your character has some fighting skills and adding player skills wouldn\'t be realistic... :/
i know it may be more boring, but if there were two warriors fighting, and the one that was weaker would win thanks to player skills, then that would suck...
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Originally posted by Draklar
Depends how good roleplayer are you...
if yer gonna roleplay dumb kran, you probably shouldn\'t go for puzzle-quest even if you\'d know how to solve it.
Sad part is you can\'t do it other way...
and i think devs want minimum of player skills in Planeshift
hmm.. did you ever try the current two quests in the game, those require quite a bit (roleplaying) skills, so you need to be very skilled(in roleplaying) to solve those, i think roleplaying skills are just part of player skills but of course it shouldn\'t be like that so people that are weaker should win in a battle because of those skills, it should just be used in things like quests..
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I would love to play a game where wizards are rare due to the difficulty in becoming a good one.
Finally a person who thinks like I do. :) I like your thinking, Grakim. I even suggest that particular thing a while ago, but people simply didn\'t like it. It\'s all about being \"teh l33t w1zzard\", getting as many statpoints and as many spells possible, yet look at the fantasy/roleplaying stories. Let\'s just use LoTR as an example. We meet exactly how many wizards? 2 (however, we know there are more but that\'s just a detail. There still aren\'t many), and how many warriors do we meet? 100,000? 200,000? Gee, it\'s hard keeping a count of all those people. And why? Because any person can pick up a sword and swing it, but it\'s not for everyone to start shooting spells... Gamers nowadays simply don\'t understand that... Anyway, it seems I got a bit off topic there. So, as for complex rules and systems? Sure! Sign me up! :D
As for this roleplaying. If everyone, and I mean everyone, roleplayed, a game could be sweet, but the problem is, they don\'t. They open up their browser, find an info-site, read it, and suddenly their character knows everything. Then they discover a new quest, they complete it, and suddenly the person\'s other characters also know how to do it. And that\'s wrong. But people don\'t like that either, and I\'m afraid if something like that was to be maintained, there should be a GM appointed to every 5 players on the server, and sheesh, that\'s alot of GMs. :P
hmm.. did you ever try the current two quests in the game, those require quite a bit (roleplaying) skills, so you need to be very skilled(in roleplaying) to solve those, i think roleplaying skills are just part of player skills but of course it shouldn\'t be like that so people that are weaker should win in a battle because of those skills, it should just be used in things like quests..
I\'m afraid that\'s not exactly true Ax... Roleplaying isn\'t to write \"How are you?\", \"Who are you?\", \"Who is...\" etc. and being told over and over that the NPC doesn\'t understand a word you say. That\'s plain evil. :P If roleplaying should be a part of quests, it\'d require that PC characters were a part of quests or that NPCs are really smart, as in you can talk to them about anything from how the weather is, to where the last dragon was seen. That, however, would require alot of work. :P
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Nice elaboration. Of course we want only the capable people to be mages, cause so we\'d be more reckognized! :D
And actually we met 3 wizards(sorcerer is more appropriate imo)...Gandalf met with Rudagast the Brown :P
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Originally posted by Gronomist
Let\'s just use LoTR as an example. We meet exactly how many wizards? 2 (however, we know there are more but that\'s just a detail. There still aren\'t many)
you may have a point there, but it fully depends on world, i think...
in some there may be more magic, in some less...
if you want less mages and more warriors then make mage skills grow slower
i think that\'s the only way if you want to make it fair for everyone.
And surely only one if you want it LOTR-like... i mean the age of the spellcasters there ;)
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Originally posted by Gronomist
I\'m afraid that\'s not exactly true Ax... Roleplaying isn\'t to write \"How are you?\", \"Who are you?\", \"Who is...\" etc. and being told over and over that the NPC doesn\'t understand a word you say. That\'s plain evil. :P If roleplaying should be a part of quests, it\'d require that PC characters were a part of quests or that NPCs are really smart, as in you can talk to them about anything from how the weather is, to where the last dragon was seen. That, however, would require alot of work. :P
I was trying to point out that the game currently requires a lot of player skill, the roleplaying part is between ()\'s...
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i honestly agrre with you grono
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Saying that quests like the ones that are in now require skill is quite optimistic, seeing as once people who are not hardcore roplayers join the game (when combat is put in), quest solutions will be spread quicker than shit in a fan.
So in the end if you use runescape-like systems for magic and combat, it really comes down to who is the highest level/has powerleveled the most, while the person who spendt his time RP\'ing and such is face down in the mud.
i know it may be more boring, but if there were two warriors fighting, and the one that was weaker would win thanks to player skills, then that would suck...
I don\'t see how that would suck...
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that depends on how progression works
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Rulzner: it SHOULD require skill, quests aren\'t that easy to solve, people who are able to solve the current quests aren\'t very likely to just tell it to anyone..
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heh....
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hmm... i don\'t really like the current NPC talking system. What with people that have spelling problems? Or aren\'t that good in building sentences in english?
I\'d like to see it like that:
You choose sentences from a list, while:
the higher inteligence you have, the more sentences you have to choose.
the higher charisma you have the bigger possibility is that NPC will trust you or something.
as for player skills:
If there won\'t be many of them, there will be more roleplayers around :P
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Rulzner: it SHOULD require skill, quests aren\'t that easy to solve, people who are able to solve the current quests aren\'t very likely to just tell it to anyone..
Look at runescape, no player skills at all, still you\'re lucky to find 1 roleplayer in 100 players, and if you get stuck on a quest there, no matter how hard it is, ask anyone, and they will tell you, the same will be for PS. The reason it isn\'t happening now is that the people who play PS now are roleplayers, but once combat and content is added, non-RP people will join, and non-RP people play quite differently from RP people...
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Originally posted by Rulzern
Look at runescape, no player skills at all, still you\'re lucky to find 1 roleplayer in 100 players
I think that\'s because of pk, right?
and as for giving away quest info... thing i said would solve that :]
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Originally posted by Draklar
hmm... i don\'t really like the current NPC talking system. What with people that have spelling problems? Or aren\'t that good in building sentences in english?
I\'d like to see it like that:
You choose sentences from a list, while:
the higher inteligence you have, the more sentences you have to choose.
the higher charisma you have the bigger possibility is that NPC will trust you or something.
as for player skills:
If there won\'t be many of them, there will be more roleplayers around :P
there is a large list for synonyms that will be used in one of the next version. for example, instead of saying Hello, you will be able to say: what\'s up, hey, hi etc.
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Originally posted by Axsyrus
there is a large list for synonyms that will be used in one of the next version. for example, instead of saying Hello, you will be able to say: what\'s up, hey, hi etc.
actually you are able to say that right now
but what does it have to do with what i said? ?(
it won\'t fix spelling problems :/
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About the spelling problems... Well, you don\'t go to the local shop saying \"hlo i wnt fur brs\", do you (maybe that\'s a little too many spelling mistakes, I know...)? So far, the NPCs are able to understand spelling errors as long as you don\'t mistype all the words in the sentence.
Actually, try telling some of them that they\'re stupid, and they\'ll respond that they\'re actually quite smart for an Alpha release. :D
Anyway. There\'s no way to get rid of people who spread quests on sites etc. except to have GMs/trusted players infiltrate sites, and ban the players who do it. That\'s quite the only thing to do, and I don\'t think the devs will go that far, even if people start giving out quest solutions... However, I wouldn\'t recommend giving out solutions in-game. That\'d be the best way to get unpopular with the devs. :P
Edit: Spelling >_<
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hi and hello are just examples, there are way more synonyms in that list. they could also add words to the list that are common spelling errors..
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Originally posted by Gronomist
Well, you don\'t go to the local shop saying \"hlo i wnt fur brs\", do you?
if you go straight from bar... it is possible ;)
and devs can\'t do anything to stop giving away quest info... you may give it by any messanger/email/whatever
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Originally posted by Gronomist
[But people don\'t like that either, and I\'m afraid if something like that was to be maintained, there should be a GM appointed to every 5 players on the server, and sheesh, that\'s alot of GMs. :P
Remember though, that, like a MUD, PS GMs could easily be recruited from the community, so having a 1:5 GM-Player (Not total chars, semi-regular players might be a better factor) ratio could very well be possible.
Anyway, making certain archetypes rare can actually be done without requiring player skills; take SWG, for example, its been 6 months and a Jedi still hasn\'t appeared (The dev team has projected that it may take as long as 8 months for the first Jedi to pop-up, but supposedly players are advancing faster than expected.). I wouldn\'t mind seeing something like that; I mean, if you see a PC Jedi in SWG, you\'re truly lucky, let alone becoming one.
Also, on the topic of restricting quest cheaters; quests could be somewhat randomized on each instance. For example, small varitions on codewords that must be said, or differant targets for fetch quests. This way, it would be futile for players to release quest info, since it would only help a minority of players.
Getting OT...
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Also, on the topic of restricting quest cheaters; quests could be somewhat randomized on each instance. For example, small varitions on codewords that must be said, or differant targets for fetch quests. This way, it would be futile for players to release quest info, since it would only help a minority of players.
Doesn\'t work, since your average high-medium level players will have done the quest several times, and without enough balancing (i.e. having tons of options) the quests will become unbalanced.
and devs can\'t do anything to stop giving away quest info... you may give it by any messanger/email/whatever
Correct.
I think that\'s because of pk, right?
Wrong.
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Originally posted by Rulzern
I think that\'s because of pk, right?
Wrong.
mayhap...
i\'m just saying that from my observations...
There are two groups among my friends that play mmorpg\'s
you could say
one is non-roleplayers
second roleplayers
the first group likes pk a lot
while second hates games where there is free pk...
just like that :P
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you know, i kinda think there shouldn\'t be any quests more like a bounty type thing, give guard captin bandit head, thus it would mak sence to do it over and over , and tell people about it.
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Originally posted by Grakrim
Remember though, that, like a MUD, PS GMs could easily be recruited from the community, so having a 1:5 GM-Player (Not total chars, semi-regular players might be a better factor) ratio could very well be possible.
GMs should not be \"easily recruited\" from any community, no matter which. That\'ll just result in a bunch of powerabusers, stupid people, and those who generally have no idea what being a GM actually means. Therefor, no roleplay. :)
Anyway, making certain archetypes rare can actually be done without requiring player skills; take SWG, for example, its been 6 months and a Jedi still hasn\'t appeared (The dev team has projected that it may take as long as 8 months for the first Jedi to pop-up, but supposedly players are advancing faster than expected.). I wouldn\'t mind seeing something like that; I mean, if you see a PC Jedi in SWG, you\'re truly lucky, let alone becoming one.
That\'s partially because all new characters have only something like 0.5 (or was it 0.05) percent chance of having the force powers. Then you actually have to figure out that you have them, and then you need someone to train you. That kind of stuff is not easy when there aren\'t many PC Jedi\'s around. :)