PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Davis on December 27, 2003, 05:22:58 am
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I think quests should be more dynamic than, let\'s say, Diablo II quests (kill the smith I imbue your item).
They should be like real life, your position is what matters.
This would mean that they would have to involve multiple people; and they should.
One NPC might want someone to do one thing, another might want someone else to do something else, all in relation to some sort of more global event. And though the NPCs might ask multiple people, its not like the quest is for everyone. Also, not everything has to be assigned by NPCs.
So, its all based around a situation, not just an assignment.
Like Threed, in Earthbound. One player might think of putting the zombie paper in the tent. (if not the npcs die). Another might go through the graveyard. Another may be commisioned by an npc to fly the flying rescue thing.
There are problems in this, and it isn\'t a complete idea yet. SOrry, I\'m tired. I\'ll fix it in the morning. Post comments.
*sighs*
I have the best ideas when I\'m tired, but I\'m the worst at expressing them.
OK I guess its sort of like this:
It gets rid of the concept of assigned quests altogether
instead creating a dynamic situation
which the players then deal with in various ways
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i think Dynamic Quests are a great idea as it opens the door to more possiblities. but coding Dynamic Quests would be very hard so many game claim to have it but few delivers.
i assume Dynamic Quests refers to something like this u log on to the game the game examines your strats then generates tailor made mission/quests for u ( similar to world of warcraft )
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\"You assume\"... you\'d know if you read the post. Isn\'t that an idea? Hmm?
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Originally posted by Davis
\"You assume\"... you\'d know if you read the post. Isn\'t that an idea? Hmm?
He\'d know if you were a bit more clear.
Does placing the letter, going through the graveyard or flying the thing achieve the same goal or do they work together as a team (or maybe against eachother)?
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I like the idea and it will be implemented. If you remember one type of pvp will be in quests where players will be made to have crossing interests.
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Originally posted by Davis
\"You assume\"... you\'d know if you read the post. Isn\'t that an idea? Hmm?
that\'s the idea?
so no solving quests in teams, eh?
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Originally posted by Skizzik
Originally posted by Davis
\"You assume\"... you\'d know if you read the post. Isn\'t that an idea? Hmm?
He\'d know if you were a bit more clear.
Does placing the letter, going through the graveyard or flying the thing achieve the same goal or do they work together as a team (or maybe against eachother)?
They don\'t have to, but it would help. This idea gives a lot of options, and working as a team would definately solve a lot of problems.
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so let\'s say there\'s a team of a warrior, mage, assassin and merchant
will it be like:
NPC will give a quest to one of them, while others will have to find other NPCs?
one NPC will give each adventurer somewhat different quest?
or maybe NPC will somehow know every member of group and will be able to give quest depending on overall skills?
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how about:
if there\'s other people in your group(im assuming that theres an option where you can invite people to your party), and you ask for a mission...it is assigned to everyone in the group. But, if there\'s different parts to the quest (like, A: get object X B: destroy X) the NPC\'s assign the parts to dfferent people in the group. so if there\'s 4 people, NPC will assign 2 to get object X, and 2 to destroy X
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I\'ve always wondered whether it would be possible to actually have quests that involve getting items or cooperating with specific members of another guild or race. So let\'s say you could be asked to present an item that a regular player owns (sayyy... Mogura :P) and then you get the item to the NPC or another player even.
I think it\'d be fun if quests involved a human element, which could always be provided by regular players or some of the devs who want to have some fun as well. The whole idea of having NPCs is to replace the human touch, but does it always have to be that way?
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this would be cool, and not very hard to code, it\'s like this:
you have certain properties, and the NPC will only tell you about the quest when you\'ve reached one of them.
for example, there\'s a quest that needs to be solved by stealing something, this quest will only be given to characters with, let\'s say skill level 20 climbing and level 30 picklocking, the code would be something like this:(this is php and probably wrong but it\'s just an example :P):
if($skill_climbing == \"20\"){
if($skill_lockpicking == \"30\"){
start_quest_01();
} else {
print \"You\'re not skilled enough in lockpicking, please come back later.\";
}
}else {
print \"You\'re not skilled enough in climbing, please come back later.\";
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Originally posted by Draklar
so let\'s say there\'s a team of a warrior, mage, assassin and merchant
will it be like:
NPC will give a quest to one of them, while others will have to find other NPCs?
one NPC will give each adventurer somewhat different quest?
or maybe NPC will somehow know every member of group and will be able to give quest depending on overall skills?
You seem limited in your idea that quests have to be given by NPC\'s. My idea of \"Dynamic Quests\" is that there is an overall situation that one or more players may or may not decide to deal with. This may or may not involve NPC\'s, it may or may not involve NPC\'s giving assignments. It\'s designed to put humans in control of the situation, instead of them just performing a task that an NPC states.
Originally posted by dragoon169
how about:
if there\'s other people in your group(im assuming that theres an option where you can invite people to your party), and you ask for a mission...it is assigned to everyone in the group. But, if there\'s different parts to the quest (like, A: get object X B: destroy X) the NPC\'s assign the parts to dfferent people in the group. so if there\'s 4 people, NPC will assign 2 to get object X, and 2 to destroy X
Yes, if that quest is set up that way.
Remember, dynamic quests are dynamic. There are many ways to do it.
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Hay vengeance just jump right and correct me if you want to(not that you wouldn?t)
Quests aren?t coated. They are a text file with an engine, which is coated, works on to make a quest. It?s kind of similar to how the graphics engine works. The graphics engine does not have any data in it. The data is an XML file and graphics files for texture. Their combined using the graphics engine is used to render a scene. A quest engine uses quest data to produce a quest. Writing an actual quest in code would be ridiculously complex.
Adding a few if statements and case statements to the code doesn?t seem very difficult. However building a quest where the writer has to produce answers for every conceivable combination and outcome in a quest seems like a very difficult job. It would seem to me if you had a practical limit to the number of outcomes like say four it might be doable.
If you?re thinking that the computer comes up with text in any way other than somebody writing the story I would like to hear it, better yet I would like to know how you can do that without an outrageous amount of computing power.
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I think I got what\'s your idea.
Or at least something that\'s going your way, Davis ...
You mean about randomly generated quests that could be assignated only once : If I come and talk to Rinna (for instance), she might be asking me : \"Would you be nice enough to do this (Y/N)\"
If you answer yes, you get the job, and if anybody else come then, she won\'t be asking them anything (but maybe another randomly generated quest, that has nothing to do in particular with the previous task).
If you answer no, then she\'ll ask the next player she\'ll talk to.
But my get the job\'s totaly due to hasard, as X could have taken it just before me ... In fact, the NPC would get some status : \"Aaa ! I got a job for the next player I meet\". (with quest icon over it\'s head maybe)
Then, nothing prevents you when you got the job to ask that LVL14 magician who\'s a friend of yours to give a hand. If you get rewarded, he might be interested in ...
Of course, results of the quests (completing it or not) might interfeere with future quests and/or environement. Well, if you can\'t prevent that building from beeing destroyed, no NPC\'ll be asking anyone to go there for any reason ... (but rebuild it or so maybe)
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Tylu: Nice long post, but that\'s not exactly what I was talking about; some of the same principles. Argh, is it my explanation that\'s flawed, or are people just not reading it?
Still, yeah, it does involve changes in the enviroment, because it involves the enviroment defining the quests. I guess yo could say that the quests were generated. Still though, when you people hear \"quest\" you think \"something an NPC told you to do\". No, I\'m trying to make it player-based, you have to think of quests in a different way.
Why should NPC\'s run the world? Why can\'t I? ;)
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I totally apologized for responding to this thread.
I didn?t realize you are in fantasy land.
Being in fantasy land in a game is good.
Being in fantasy land in Computerworld is bad.
Once again, sincerely, I apologize.
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fish: the 3d engine has absolutely nothing to do with quests, it will be the same quest even if it is in a text based game.
*axsyrus wonders why nobody responds to his post*
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Originally posted by Fish
Hay vengeance just jump right and correct me if you want to(not that you wouldn?t)
Quests aren?t coated. They are a text file with an engine, which is coated, works on to make a quest. It?s kind of similar to how the graphics engine works. The graphics engine does not have any data in it. The data is an XML file and graphics files for texture. Their combined using the graphics engine is used to render a scene. A quest engine uses quest data to produce a quest. Writing an actual quest in code would be ridiculously complex.
Adding a few if statements and case statements to the code doesn?t seem very difficult. However building a quest where the writer has to produce answers for every conceivable combination and outcome in a quest seems like a very difficult job. It would seem to me if you had a practical limit to the number of outcomes like say four it might be doable.
If you?re thinking that the computer comes up with text in any way other than somebody writing the story I would like to hear it, better yet I would like to know how you can do that without an outrageous amount of computing power.
What\'s the text for? There can be variables that change, like the condition of a building... you need to htink out of the box. Like I said, a quest doesn\'t always have to be an assignment by an NPC. It could just be a possible action; the concept of my idea.
Basically, the idea is to have more player interaction and control; I was trying to figure out a way to do that, and I think I have the rudiments of a solution. Fish, if you think that players having more influence on a quest is \"being in fantasyland\", ok, that\'s you, but that\'s also pretty stupid. Not everything in a quest has to be the server making up text. Players can have influence too. If Auran asks you to stalk Grono for a while, then, by my definition, that is also a quest, even if NPC\'s and the server had nothing to do with it.
I think that the server should create situations where player interaction with the enviroment is possible; is that really so hard to believe? Why does the server have to respond to everything, make up solutions to everything? Why can\'t the players have some control?
I forgive you for not putting much thought into your post, but I take my idea seriously, so next time, think it over ;)
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OK, now I see the source of the confusion:
My original post makes little sense.
SO here is me re-explaining it:
A quest doesn\'t have to be something NPC\'s control. I think there should be dynamic situations that involve the players more than the NPCs. Like I said before, Auran asking you to stalk Grono is a quest. I think the server should create situations that players might have interest in changing, like the zombie situation in Threed. If someone goes and kills all the zombies in various ways, then the zombies are dead. Do we really need NPC\'s spoon-feeding you the game?
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ok.. still no responds to my posts, Davis did you even read it????
anyways, like i said there are certain properties(variables) that makes stuff happen, just read my post, it explains everything!!!
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With the php thing? Yeah, I read that, it\'s a slightly different concept.
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Davis, I\'m talking about these quests that would be started by NPCs, not all will be started by PCs, right?
And ones started by players are all about roleplaying, this forum has nothing to do with it. Unless you want PS to generate something that won\'t allow players cheat each other...
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Originally posted by Axsyrus
this would be cool, and not very hard to code, it\'s like this:
you have certain properties, and the NPC will only tell you about the quest when you\'ve reached one of them.
for example, there\'s a quest that needs to be solved by stealing something, this quest will only be given to characters with, let\'s say skill level 20 climbing and level 30 picklocking, the code would be something like this:(this is php and probably wrong but it\'s just an example :P):
if($skill_climbing == \"20\"){
if($skill_lockpicking == \"30\"){
start_quest_01();
} else {
print \"You\'re not skilled enough in lockpicking, please come back later.\";
}
}else {
print \"You\'re not skilled enough in climbing, please come back later.\";
yup what i meant was that everytime someone logs on the game the game will generate specific missions and quests similar to this example
yup what i meant was that everytime someone logs on the game the game will generate specific missions and quests similar to this example. while mission generated would be mostly side quests meaning they will not affect the main storyline of the game.
to me this is what dynamic quests are all about !! ;)
its something not having to be repeated over and again.
;)
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Axsyrus I guess the concept of an analogy is lost. The similarity is in both engines and data are separate. Combining the data in the engine is a serious mistake. If you don?t think the 3D graphics engine works on the XML text file go to the Crystal space web site and get reading. In fact I did respond your post, nobody?s going to C code a quest.
Davis I think what you?re proposing is writing a quest system that is much like a interpreted programming language. One that can react too external properties. Current quest engines are tightly packed with the NPC chat systems and somebody has to actually write the text the NPC says. Changing this to a programming language will make the data structure very complicated. It will still have to be typed in by a person and it will still be a text file for data.
If you think the computer is going to be a cyber game master that is able to make dynamic quests on-the-fly you can forget about it. It isn?t going to happen. That kind of artificial intelligence is way beyond the scope of building a videogame. You still got to have a person designed the quest.
However Davis there is hope. Just because there is a semi interpreted programming language designed into a quest engine doesn?t mean you actually have to use it. The author of the quest can choose to make it as dynamic or non-dynamic as they like. Furthermore tools can be developed, like word processor macros to insert dynamic parts to help the usually non-technical author to add dynamic elements.
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Originally posted by Draklar
Davis, I\'m talking about these quests that would be started by NPCs, not all will be started by PCs, right?
And ones started by players are all about roleplaying, this forum has nothing to do with it. Unless you want PS to generate something that won\'t allow players cheat each other...
Why are player-started ones all roleplay?
Why can\'t I say \"get me this and I\'ll pay you, it\'s not like you could use it anyway\"? And if he doesn\'t give it to me, too bad for him.
Fish: You still have no idea what I\'m talking about.
Am I this bad at explaining things? ?(
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Originally posted by Fish
That kind of artificial intelligence is way beyond the scope of building a videogame. You still got to have a person designed the quest.
The game will have GMs If a GM uses his/her creativity, (s)he could make a great quest. These quests together with the \'standard\' quests is all a quester needs IMO.
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Skizzik we agree. It takes a creative person or GM to write the quest. And unless the GM wants to stay up at all hours of the day and night managing the quest they have to do a complete job. Including writing in all possible outcomes. Considering this game will never actually be finished some people might find it interesting to actually build a very complex quest. So at least having the capability to do rudimentary logic statements in a quest and check up on game parameters may be a good idea in the quest system.
I suppose the bottom line is until I read a short story written by a computer that is anything other than garbage I am not convinced a computer can generate anything coherent in a quest. And by having multiple outcomes or in intertwine plot equals complexity. Somebody?s got to write it, having somebody stay online the whole time maintaining it seems like quite a bother.
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If you think the computer is going to be a cyber game master that is able to make dynamic quests on-the-fly you can forget about it. It isn?t going to happen. That kind of artificial intelligence is way beyond the scope of building a videogame. You still got to have a person designed the quest.
You\'re right, but it could be genereating pseudo on-the-fly quests by using templates, such as :
SAY TO ( >= <#>)
FIND (Condition) IN
GET TO
KILL <#> (Condition)
Where <> objects are replaced by randomly chosen ones of the specified type according to Condition.
If Coders implements the first one I suggested, Server might generate Strengh for and 25 for <#>, so, the quests becomes : SAY TO (Strengh >= 25)
Then, the Server selects a random player from the ones with Strengh >= 25 (say Player), generates a password (say Password), and the quest \"SAY \'Password\' to \'Player\'\" has been generated.
Could also generate a random number of conditions for the Player list ...
Why can\'t I say \"get me this and I\'ll pay you, it\'s not like you could use it anyway\"? And if he doesn\'t give it to me, too bad for him.
Well, I don\'t see why you couldn\'t ... In the actual state of the game, you can already ask any player to do something, and if he\'s done it, you just give him credits. I don\'t see how the server should interfeere with that.
Oh ! You mean having somewhat interface with \"X will give 50 rubies against Y information or Z object\" written on it when someone\'s asking for ?
Well, this could actualy let the player ask multiple players to do that quest and revoke the contract when anybody\'s got the job done. So if anyone gets the job done before you, you get some kinda \"You\'re too late\" message ...