PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => PvP,PK and Thieving => Topic started by: Kuiper7986 on January 15, 2004, 06:23:09 pm
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What\'s wrong with the arena idea? I mean what\'s the difference between fighting someone in a forest or fighting someone in a colleseum. The point is that you pk\'ers still get to fight someone right? Face it most pk\'ers like to grieve pk noobs and loot their items. Because you guys are afraid that it might be possible in a long run that you can\'t take loot items while fighting in a colleseum is the reason why you don\'t like the arena/colleseum idea. Don\'t give me that, reality, realistic, hoo haa. Why don\'t you make it so real that I just stab you in chest and you die, oh yah that\'s a real good pk\'ing. I\'d love to pk griever pker\'s.
Kuiper
-The Anti Pker
Thanks for your time, I mean thanks for your pk\'ing time.
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Well, take a simple example:
i don\'t like someone because he\'s good-aligned while i\'m evil aligned. He don\'t want to fight with me. What can i do?
In your world, there\'s only good people. I want also evil one.
There\'s a lot of ways to avoid Newbies hunt (look at all the suggestion in PvP forum). Maybe the best one will be that the winner gains nothing, only some exp if its opponent was at same level. The loser shouldn\'t lose much in such a case.
(btw, i\'ll not play evil, more neutral-good but it is to explain why some restricted kind of PK must be allowed)
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Nothing is wrong with the arena\'s... I\'m just not wimpy enough not to want pk\'ing. U want arena only because u can pick an opponent weaker than you and attack them there, without the chance of the same happening to you... :D :P
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This does not belong here and should me moved to the subtopic on PKing and thieving.
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To Elscouta: Well you have to gain something for PvP, or else I highly doubt people will PvP and risk dieing in gain for nothing. Secondly if you die, no pain no gain, you should gain some experience for trying.
To Xordan:
Well, then what\'s the point of arenas? Your saying that I want a arena because I want to kill someone that\'s weaker than me? Well obviously they\'re aren\'t going to let me do that, its just unfair, the arena idea tries to prevent that. It would be regulated except that it would give free player vs player fights.
Paxx:
Sorry I don\'t know how to move the topic.
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There should be some areas outside the arena for pk\'ing. But, they should be small. ie: Out of the whole dark forest, only a small patch about two buses long in radius would be PK
[edit]Oh, and Xordan, it doesn\'t mean he\'s a wimp, it means he doesn\'t want to be killed by idiot power-levelers such as yourself. Not everybody plays a game just to kill stuff ya know.
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Originally posted by Kuiper7986
To Elscouta: Well you have to gain something for PvP, or else I highly doubt people will PvP and risk dieing in gain for nothing. Secondly if you die, no pain no gain, you should gain some experience for trying.
Well, wasn\'t it the aim to limit the number of players who want to PK? And i didn\'t say \'nothing\'. I said nothing if you are much stronger than your opponent. You can gain a few exps if you win a fair battle. Maybe exps should be transfered as in ELO system... (and no objects)
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excuse me sorry, maybe I said it wrong. When I said \"nothing,\" items I meant by items. But yes you are right you should of course gain exp.
to everyone:
I seem to be misinterpreted, sorry if you didn\'t notice. I\'m against unregulated Pk\'ing, but not against regulated pk\'ing like an arena. I absolutely hate the roonskape style of pk\'ing or any free-roaming pk\'ing areas but I\'m prefectly fine with the arena/colleseum idea.
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isn\'t the best and most easy solution...just an arena where u can fight each other, and have a ranking...u can win money if u beat an opponent. and how stronger ur opponent compared to urself is u can get more or less points... And SOME pk-areas...but only outside the city\'s...So not a lot or huge areas but just some places where valuable recources can be hidden or maybe also stronger monsters but where also the danger lies of getting pkilled
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There will be guild-wars too, in which you can kill enemy clan-members for as much as you want.
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I am assuming there, that arenas are all vs all PVP zones... having to wait for 10 min for my turn isn\'t my idea of fun. :P
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Well at least you still get to kill someone, or maybe just don\'t PvP at all and save yourself the trouble.
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i have a question, how are we going to gain exp when there is no level based system in PS? it also seems that one of the more overlooked items is the duel system that paxx had mentioned at the top of this sub-topic. so, for any of you that are like the three evil piggies from killfrog.com, you can always just go kill each other in duels. im not a pker, but i do occasionally enjoy PvP whether i win or lose.
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A system that has arenas, guild vs guild, and duels has been made, and it is NOT considered a PvP game.
PvP means that you and your group CAN be killed while they are out at everyones favorite hunting spot. This is what makes the game fun. Mindlessly killing mob after mob as they pop up like toast is not as much fun as playing king of the hill.
Having said that, having safe towns is paramount to enjoyment of the game. I my humble opinion, once your out of the ear shot of the guards, you should be fair game. This is not to say you should be 100% safe in town either. If a large force of orcs should invade...
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IMO
towns (well most non-player/guild run towns) should be safe zones
the wilderness should have an element of danger.. thus pvp/pk should be allowed
the result non-pvpers are safe in the towns and surrounding lands where they can get their resources + do their crafting (maybe have a few safe dungeon areas so they can hunt monsters etc) but if they plan to go on a long journey they should get the aid of a mercenary/warrior
this would allow both playstyles to co-exist and also would provide a source of income to mercenary characters (if the whole world is safe then why would you hire protection?)
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I dislike pking in one respect. It discourages people from playing. Say I just started playing and I\'m wandering around with my hard earned level 8 character. I have decent equipment and a nice little horde of money I\'ve worked hard to get. Now along comes Level 50 Jackass McGee Pker. Who decides, I\'m gonna have fun on his ass.
Next thing I know I\'m respawning back in the town. All of my money and equipment are gone and I have pking to blame. I\'m not going to want to play the game anymore now am I? I hate feeling like I\'ve wasted large amounts of hours of my life.
The way it could work though. Is players have to turn on pking mode. And once they attack someone they can\'t turn it off for say... 48 hours?
Also, there should maybe be a gap in levels where people can\'t fight each other except in an arena. Maybe 5 levels? Although I don\'t much agree with that. I think if you choose to pk, you choose to die like a pker.
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concepts:
Simultaneous PK/NON playestyles by having a PK switch - ive seen this in action.. result = PKs complain about NONs interfering with PK, NONs complain about PKs getting in their way while they are trying to do things
Protected noob status - PKing is disabled involving any player with < certain skill level in combat skills (ie u cant attack a noob.. they must be able to defend themselves to some degree b4 u can)
PKing skill-gap lock - players cant physically pvp if their skills differ by a certain amount... ie lvl 50 cant fight lvl 10
A sepperate PKing skill - players wishing to pk could work up their PKskill... then the pk skillgap system would come into effect
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IMHO there should be no gaps. If your brave enough to walk into the pk zone, then you should have to face the consequences. Its much more \"real\" this way, and it helps establish a clear line between the weak and the strong.
And as far as losing items is concerned... if your a true loyal player then losing valuables here and there shouldnt be a big deal. However if your a n00b who cares solely about money and items, then you\'ll probably get mad and quit. (Which isn\'t really a bad thing)
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i agree jehoel, however the skill-gap system is intended for an environment where there arent dedicated pvp zones.. so u wouldnt walk into 1.. you would perpetually be in one
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Actually Jehoel, most people play MMORPGs so they can gain levels and money and items. Hence the RPG aspect of the game. A lot of people who like RPGs also like to talk to people, that\'s why they play multiplayer RPGs. Pking brings about the advent of someone walking up to someone and saying, \"Hi.\" And then the person (being in a bad mood that day) decides to kill their character. He has a reason, he was in a bad mood and looking at their face made them angry.
But now that person has lost alot of stuff they worked hard to get and is discouraged from communicating with others through fear of making them angry.
The way it could work is there can be an option where you can challenge someone. And once the other person accepts the two of you begin a combat where no one else can interfere.
I don\'t know why non-Pkers and Pkers would complain about one or the other getting involved with the switch system considering the fact a non-pker enabled character wouldn\'t be able to harm a pker and a pker wouldn\'t be able to harm a non pker.
I play a game where the switch function is used and when two people are duking it out I just walk right by. It doesn\'t bother me one bit seeing as how I can\'t be injured and my presence doesn\'t bother them seeing as how I can\'t attack either of them even if I wanted to. Which I wouldn\'t considering most pkers in said game have levels in the 60-100\'s and I am a lowly 16th level mage.
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problems i have encountered with switch system in my previous experience as a gm:
1. pkers taking along nons to heal them
2. nons sending trained creatures to attack
3. nons casting wall spells into fighting area
4. nons repeatedly running in between fighters to be annoying by getting in the way
5. pks using wall spells when fighting and thus blocking off places where nons are trying to get to (eg if u fighting outside a dungeon + dont want yer opponent to run into it and escape.. u wall up the entrance... then nons dont like not being able to get in)
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Originally posted by DeshNovar
Next thing I know I\'m respawning back in the town. All of my money and equipment are gone and I have pking to blame. I\'m not going to want to play the game anymore now am I? I hate feeling like I\'ve wasted large amounts of hours of my life.
Hah!
Playing a MMORPG by definition means that you are already wasting large amounts of hours of your life.
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Reason i dont like open PvP. Thats what UO is if i wanted open PvP i would still play it. Last time I played it some PKer killed me and took all my goods. Now I did not feal like playing for days again trying to rebuild all my equipment back up just so someone could PK me again. So i quit playing. and the last time I played all i seen outside of towns was PKers. Did not see anyone trying to kill monsters anymore. Going outside of town with a fealing of someone is hiding around the next tree will jump out and kill me is only fun for the person behind the tree. Befor long the only people that will play are the Pkers.
Now i do beleave there should be a PVP system, but I think people should have a choice if they want to be part of the PvP system or not. Some people like PvP open and for them its great fun and to me thats good.
For somepeople PvP is the deble and dont want to be part of a PVP system and thats good too.
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Originally posted by THAPRINZE
And SOME pk-areas...but only outside the city\'s...So not a lot or huge areas but just some places where valuable recources can be hidden or maybe also stronger monsters but where also the danger lies of getting pkilled
Personaly I do not think there should be ANYTHING avaible PKer that not avialble Else where. if the a valube reasouces, in a PK area ther should be an equaly resouces avil outside for the same ammout of time/effort.
Duals, with an auto no option are fine.
Areans are fine, With a Ranking chart for RP kodos is not a bad idea.
Guildwars are problem, not such a hot idea. evetually you will have some rather large guilds, and people will not appraction if they login one day to find out they they are a target just because some war was declared while they were offline.
Noob lvl prooection is no good as It dose not protect thats have aposlote no intrestest PvP but rather have PvE from even progressin pass noob stage. Ie discurages playing.
Sure Wilderness should have an element of risk in it, but that risk in no way needs to be PvP.
In my RPG gaming I make a point of not playing with GMs the allow inter character rivily to the point of conflict. nor when I GM allow it myself.
the Fun in RPG\'s in playing a character with other players, and do not areaxcter the mistrust the grows when you have to watch your back for other players. Duals and Areans leve plenty of opertunite for those that wish to test ther skills agian another player, anything else the motervation just smacks of wanting to grief.
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Originally posted by Jehoel
And as far as losing items is concerned... if your a true loyal player then losing valuables here and there shouldnt be a big deal.
save for when the said valube Takes weeks to months of game play to get gold of.
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I think PVP should always be on IN towns. I say that because if you are a goody two shoe who has gained favor of the evil guards of a town, if you walk in you should b able to be jumped by PC\'s in the town. The counter to this is if you have favor of guards, maybe they get arrested. Anyway, if an evil character is sneaking around in a good town, you should be able to kill him on the spot. It just makes for good roleplaying. The exception should be Ykliam where I think there should be no fighting at all except arena\'s of course.
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I think that the switch system is good as long as there is a barrier around the fight to prevent non-combatants from attacking, casting spells and the combatants would only be able to cast spells in that area, so if player A is fighting player B and Player A casts wall Player B sill not be able to run away in that direction.
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Originally posted by Dalec
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The exception should be Ykliam where I think there should be no fighting at all except arena\'s of course.
I think you mean \"except for hydlaa\" because, if my memory serves me, Yliakum is the planeshift world. *checks setting page* Okee, maybe I\'m wrong...
I think that wicked evildoers should have a \"reputation\" to measure their infamy... If they are well known and evil, people should be able to fight him (only to \"near death\", PK should still be limited to if the players agree...) this prevents a fledgling evildoer (f.i. newbie who chose asassin as career path) from being almost killed and then complaining their fool head off that they were severely injured on their first day, planeshift is no fun, etc.
josePhoenix
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Originally posted by Kuiper7986
What\'s wrong with the arena idea? I mean what\'s the difference between fighting someone in a forest or fighting someone in a colleseum. The point is that you pk\'ers still get to fight someone right? Face it most pk\'ers like to grieve pk noobs and loot their items. Because you guys are afraid that it might be possible in a long run that you can\'t take loot items while fighting in a colleseum is the reason why you don\'t like the arena/colleseum idea. Don\'t give me that, reality, realistic, hoo haa. Why don\'t you make it so real that I just stab you in chest and you die, oh yah that\'s a real good pk\'ing. I\'d love to pk griever pker\'s.
Kuiper
-The Anti Pker
Thanks for your time, I mean thanks for your pk\'ing time.
*grins* bitter much? I ahve to say I understand your point, but the reality is the people taht PK like that ae meta-gamers hardcore players taht want nothing but the best ite,s they can get there grubby hands on, usualy insecure and cowardly people IRL.not always..sometimes there just eman..or feel the need to show off...why not make PK ina coloseum a weekly thing with prizes/rewards/prestige or some such?
-=Skyy=-
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This sub-thread, seems to be centered around the same ideas.
Open PK, or... Limited PK...
So I think it\'s safe to assume that everyone wants PVP options available. But some people don\'t want the added *realism* that open PKing provides.
I think the best example of open PKing is UO. Where those who are powerful are happy, those who start out, stop.
Open PKing cannot exist in an MMORPG successfully. I can\'t stress this enough.
The so called realism of open PKing is all bogus. Every person that I have seen speak of open PKing, has neglected to added interesting checks and balances and harsh reprocautions that would follow after killing a citizen, or even a visitor of certain town. Last I checked murder _was_ a pretty serious offense. The fact that it can happen all the time (like more than 60% of the time a la UO) is wrong. That means the law is not obayed in such a town or city will become full of people who only PK, if you distribute this to the entire world, then you have a game full of PKers and no one else, because no one else is interested in getting killed, or killing fellow players for their 1337 1eW7.
So, with that said, what to do about open PKing, the only way that it could be enforced is with an NPC guard system, that works almost supernaturally good. For example after you have PKed a poor noob, and lewted their body, within minutes you see several guards converge in your general direction. If you resist arrest and fail to kill _all_ the guards within that city (close to say 300) you get killed, and all your phat lewt taken and whatever other penalites ensue. If you do kill _all_ of them you get to live, and exit that city and never come back to it again. In the case you surrender you get to sit in jail for some amount of time (essentially your account gets banned) and you loose all your phat lewt.
In the real world, the above senerio is what happens to murderers and other fellow law breakers. That is why in our north american, or I should say first world society the law is obayed, and you are still healthy and alive. In game, essentially that means you can\'t PK, which is why it is usually easier to approximate the real world, by disallowing PKing. Though I would be alright with open PKing if those were the reprocautions for being seen while killing someone. So that even if you kill someone in the wilderness, and someone else happens to see, then report you to the guard. The next time you enter most cities you would be hunted and arrested, or killed.
How\'s that? I think that would be the only way open PKing could exist.
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Originally posted by rifft
So I think it\'s safe to assume that everyone wants PVP options available.
well not quite not everyone wants it availible, but most can live with it being avilvible if that avaliblity was done in a way they could ignore it.
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Ok if there was allout PKing this is how to make it fair. Have good aligned players and bad aligned players (Liek someone said they need to kill eachother but can\'t cause they need permission). Good allinged players can fight any bad aliggned player and vice versa and to prevent newb slaughter have them be neutral and have to be ask permission to be killed or they have to ask permission to kill anyone. And peopel can stay neutrall all there lives if they want. But if a guild is made it has to chose an alignment so if you want in a guild expect to do battle. Or if you commit crime your alignment will be turned to bad but if you do quests for lets say a church or something hero like then your alignment become good.This would solve all the complaints about guilds not being able to use espionage and sneaky kill eachother. And violence in public would result in officers comign after you and arresting you even if you are good or bad. whas you all think of that?
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Originally posted by Kuiper7986
What\'s wrong with the arena idea? I mean what\'s the difference between fighting someone in a forest or fighting someone in a colleseum. The point is that you pk\'ers still get to fight someone right? Face it most pk\'ers like to grieve pk noobs and loot their items. Because you guys are afraid that it might be possible in a long run that you can\'t take loot items while fighting in a colleseum is the reason why you don\'t like the arena/colleseum idea. Don\'t give me that, reality, realistic, hoo haa. Why don\'t you make it so real that I just stab you in chest and you die, oh yah that\'s a real good pk\'ing. I\'d love to pk griever pker\'s.
Kuiper
-The Anti Pker
Thanks for your time, I mean thanks for your pk\'ing time.
well lets see
1- kill stealers and loot stealers
2- liars and jerks
3- beggers and trash talkers
4- people in enemy clans and enemy guilds
5- hits and experiance
6- ars the fun part of all mmorpgs
7- eople who kill your friends
well here are the only reason i pk i only pk for loot if i really have to because im going on a mission a quest or going out to war personaly i like the open pk and am for this side.
now the thing is this is good because if someone is doing something mean like blocking you from getting away from monsters and such but it also has its downs because of the whole inapropriate actions of some pkers known as mass pkers. that if we played tibia befor the skull system we should all know what happens then.
now arenas well,
people do not have to comply but here are the good things
ehem there are those who kill a person and that persons friends go after them, but that persons friends also hunt down the pkers guild and systematicly attack each one of them. there are random pkers and people who pk for fun wich is very fun but i no longer do that :)
the arena is a god idea in theory but it will oficially turn this game into another prunescrape and that a enough said.
in all neither is a good idea completely,
there needs to be either a mix or a open authority system.
mix,
well my idea is to have arena\'s and also in game kilometers so that after about 3 in game kilometers outsde of town it will be a free zone but inside towns there will be arenas for tounyments and such, guild wars will be to put it in lamen terms \"taken out side\" of course this will be accompanied with the want of town building to build towns for you\'re clan or guild to make it all the more powerful and sucsessful. it could be accompanied by many things including seiges and other possibilities
authority,
close to the last one but you can fight and kill in town but you will be a ward of the police for charges of \"insert race here\" slaughter and if yo get cought you would go to a jail but outside of towns and in arenas they would be safe this would make pkers think about it but have the option to still pk people for their reasons like bounties and stuff
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hello,
on the topic of anti pker and having a place to pk and pk newbs and all this non sense.. why not have the biding system..
its all explained here
http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=9536&boardid=21&styleid=3&sid=4c2853025e16068d025779548e5e2f00
you choose what items to bid on the fight wether or not you want to bid an item at all is up to you..
Many thanks,
Danny