PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Axsyrus on January 30, 2004, 09:10:29 pm
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A lot of people don\'t seem to know what exactly the position of everything in the PlaneShift world is, so I\'ve made a map of it.
The information I used to create this map can be found here (http://www.planeshift.it/setting.html).
(http://www.arcaneorder.com/images/world.jpg)
1.) The Crystal \"they discovered one quiet planet with a crystal column full of energy and mystery. \"
2.) The Azure/Sapphire Crystal \"The Crystal that brings light to Yliakum is an enormous raw stone of purest transparency(1.) and analogous to the sapphire that hangs from the roof of the stalactite\'s internal cave.\"
3.) Yliakum \"a huge stalactite that occupied one third of the vault, and which produced a thin rain of clear water. It was the conic block of rock that held Yliakum.\"
4.) The Cave \" Laanx wandered into a cave that was hundreds of times bigger than the one he created, where beings without a name dwelt. At the middle of the cave, he saw a deep lake full of life, whose shores were a fertile soil.\"
5.) The Stone Labyrinths \" They were unaware of a huge maze of tunnels present in the crust of the world, later called the Stone Labyrinths, where other creatures were already lurking in the dark.\"
6. Kadaikos) \"Laanx gave his people many powerful and useful things to brighten the cave and make the lake and its shores a place to live. The Lemurs multiplied rapidly, built the ten towns of Kadaikos, and they became a prosperous and numerous populations.\"
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Good, although some proportions are out of bounds.
:emerald:. Add the Hydlaa description and you get a :diamond:. :))
Hopefully this will clear the confusion.
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3.) Yliakum \"a huge stalactite that occupied one third of the vault, and which produced a thin rain of clear water. It was the conic block of rock that held Yliakum.\"
[Nitpick]That\'s actually 3% of the vault in your pic.;)[/Nitpick]
First when I saw the setting I thought it was the worst setting ever but later on it made sense. If you began building a world on the surface you\'d have to build quite a lot before it looked reasonable. You\'d probably have to create huge mountains to limit the area in the beginning. In this case there isn\'t so much creating and you can make it look quite reasonable and from there it is easier to evolve trough the Stone Labyrinths. Hope you understand what I mean. That is all.
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Originally posted by lynx_lupo
Good, although some proportions are out of bounds.
Originally posted by Ripostellar
[Nitpick]That\'s actually 3% of the vault in your pic. ;)[/Nitpick]
I know, I know.. I just drew it so it was understandable, and easy for me to draw. I suck in proportions anyways :P
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good work that man! =) :D
( took me hours to write that one line....dont ask)
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I like it. Thank yoiu very much. I did not catch the idea when I had read the history that the cone was in the uber large chamber like that. that explains alot.
It also looks like after some time the city below the cone will really get mad if the . dead bodies keep falling down on thier roofs. (The bodies had to fall some where. lol)
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hmm wow this really clears up my understnadings of the world, good job axsyrus :D
edit: back on topic now
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I finally finished my version of the planet where the proportions should be somewhat fixed.
(http://www24.brinkster.com/itsallcrap/planeshift.jpg)Yliakum is located thousands of meters under the surface inside a huge excavated stalactite, hanging inside a cave so huge that it could contain any kingdom of the surface.
The cave is now lot of smaller but how large a kingdom can be?
Feel free to informate about any flaws as I think I\'ll be keeping the map updated as changes appear and the world evolves.
I wish we gan get this thing over with once and for good. :)
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well i have to say i never read very much of the lore behind the game but after seeing these crude but good map\'s i now understand more of the world thank\'s people :D
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yes, really nice map Ripostellar, that\'s exactly how I thought it would look like too.
However, after reading the entire history this afternoon, and talking with Talad, I saw I was completely wrong :P
for example, the cave is actually hundreds times as big as the stalactite(\" Laanx wandered into a cave that was hundreds of times bigger than the one he created, where beings without a name dwelt. At the middle of the cave, he saw a deep lake full of life, whose shores were a fertile soil.\", with \"the one he created\", I think he\'s referring to Yliakum)
Then, while talking to Talad, it got even worse :P
He told me that even on my map, the cave was too small, it could go completely through the planet and cover the whole center of the planet too. (yes, I think this is a really weird idea too, and I say we don\'t discuss this but just let this rest untill CB is finished and then try to find out how it really should be.)
I think that we, for now, should use Ripostellar\'s map, with a larger cave as reference to how the complete world should look like.
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I was digging through some old papers in the library adjacent to my scriptorium when I stumbled over this - I thought it might be interesting to some of you so I decided to share.
I would have to guess that this was drawn up from information based on old Lemur folktales passed down from generation to generation, but who knows? The features seem overly exaggerated and are probably made of more legend than truth. I still find it intriguing, however....
(http://users.wpi.edu/~nkrach/Map01.gif)
[OCC: Axsyrus\' map inspired me to put this together IRL ;)]
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Hmm I wonder why I never thought it that way... If it\'s like in the SnowWolf\'s post, it kinda makes sense. The crystal has to be one helluva big column though. 8o
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Hydlaa Hydlaa!!!
The city is Hydlaa and Yliakum the stalactite.
Snd yeah, SnowWolf\'s approach is way better. :))
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i think the 3rd one looks pretty kool.
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What\'s the planet\'s name though? And if we\'ve already used up all the space, then isn\'t it going to be a little cramped soon? (And I totally don\'t get the physics of the hollow planet...Do we even have gravity?)
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I did a little bit of hollow planet in physics; it depends how far down you are. Because you will be pulled to where most of the mass of the planet is. If that is beneath us then gavity pulls down, but if there is more mass above you then you will be pulled up (towards the surface).
However, for a stalagtite to piont down like that you need downward gravity to pull the water that forms it. So in short yes will will have gavity but it will be slightly less than on the surface.
But from talads description, you would be pulled to the cieling, and the stalagtite couldnt exist. Because if the center is completely hollow, most of the mass *is* the suface. I guess thats what happens to physics when gods get involved...
I am more curious why it doesnt cave in, and why its not full of molten magma ?(
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Mmm perhaps using what whemyfield wrote in the RP forum, we could say that the planet is \"A dead, hollow husk of what it once was\"?
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But there would be so little gravity if it is hollow, because there would be next to no mass... Unless the planet is much much much bigger than earth or made out of a very very very dense material. Other wise there would be no atmosphere as the gases wouldnt be pulled down and kept in the planets gravitational field.
Like i said, physics says bye bye when gods are involved.
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Under the physics we understand, using talads description the planet would look something like this:
(http://www.darkzephyr.plus.com/Planeshift.JPG)
A&B: You would be pulled to the sides of the cave except if you were right in the middle, where you would float.
C: The water wouldnt \"fall\" either way, not unless the mass of the stalagtite or the patch under the lake was absolutely massive, i.e. some super dense material; osmium
D: people inside the stalagtite would be either pulled towards the surface (the ceiling), or the sides of the stalagtite if they had enough mass.
and finally E: the crystal would i imagine act like modern day fibre optics, refracting light at the angle of incidence into yliakum
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Remember that there is magic. There may be other forces controling things.
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Hmm...
I was under the impression that the stalactite and the massive cave were all part of a much larger planet, in which case the physics/gravity would all work out fine. So that hollow area makes up the *entire* planet?
In any case, seeing it visually really helps it sink in even more than the description did. Looks very cool! Very unique concept.. I can\'t say I\'ve ever seen any setting quite like that before.
Nice!
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Let\'s do this the easy way, shall we?
:D <-- World
1) Turn it upside down.
2) The blue stuff is massive ... planet... and the white stuff is cave and stalagtite.. mite... Whatever it is.
Therefor my logics say that no matter where you are on the planet, you get pulled down. Am I right, or is there some kind of physician present who can clear up the details? Hmmm? :)
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Good Job Zephyrus ! Yours is the best of them all :D
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Grono, Zephyrus is almost right. But so is Xordan.
And remember people, even Yliakum is so big we\'ll be discovering it for ages. Then ask yourself why it\'s called planeshift. ;)
the mass center wouldn\'t be in the cenetr of the planet anymore...
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Bah magic nothin\'. Magic is fine and all but it will get really boring after a while if you keep doing impossible stuff and then saying \"Uh...Magic?\"
Since the Graphics Engine simulates physics on Earth, the ratio of physics laws to magic have to be at least 6:4 (or 60% Physics, 40% magic), IMHO.
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karakth - Since when has a 3-4 feet tall dwarf been able to jump about 1 1/2 his own height on earth? That seems just a little impossible, unless I\'m just completely mistaken. :)
About the magic stuff. Well, who says we ever get to know how the world is put together? And honestly, why do we even care? Is it really true that the community has become so bored that we discuss the smallest things about the game, such as \"How do the physics of PlaneShift work?\" It\'s not right, people. Get over it. The game works, and that\'s all we need to know. :)
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We\'re only bored until CB comes out :P
And I think the dwarf jump is a glitch. Hmm someone should fix it. Dwarves shouldn\'t be able to jump so high, or they\'d be fleas :D
Besides, people always start discussing the physics of a make-believe world (like the \"a dragon can\'t fly\" argument in DnD).
Although when you think about it, our RL :o world is held together by magic too. Well, particles are held together by magic. Why do two opposites attract (electrons and protons)? Dunno.
The wizards of this world are Quantum Physicists, IMO.
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Originally posted by karakth
Although when you think about it, our RL :o world is held together by magic too. Well, particles are held together by magic. Why do two opposites attract (electrons and protons)? Dunno.
The wizards of this world are Quantum Physicists, IMO.
Virtual exchange particles, in the case of the electromagnetic force (electrons and protons as you put it) that is photons :P
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Nowhere in the whole history does it say that the larger cave is as large as the whole planet. It only says that it is three times larger than Yliakum.
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Originally posted by Axsyrus
However, after reading the entire history this afternoon, and talking with Talad, I saw I was completely wrong :P
for example, the cave is actually hundreds times as big as the stalactite(\" Laanx wandered into a cave that was hundreds of times bigger than the one he created, where beings without a name dwelt. At the middle of the cave, he saw a deep lake full of life, whose shores were a fertile soil.\", with \"the one he created\", I think he\'s referring to Yliakum)
Then, while talking to Talad, it got even worse :P
He told me that even on my map, the cave was too small, it could go completely through the planet and cover the whole center of the planet too. (yes, I think this is a really weird idea too, and I say we don\'t discuss this but just let this rest untill CB is finished and then try to find out how it really should be.)
I think that we, for now, should use Ripostellar\'s map, with a larger cave as reference to how the complete world should look like.
Seeing as Talad is the head honcho... thats why i think the world is hollow...
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Originally posted by Axsyrus
Then, while talking to Talad, it got even worse :P
He told me that even on my map, the cave was too small, it could go completely through the planet and cover the whole center of the planet too. (yes, I think this is a really weird idea too, and I say we don\'t discuss this but just let this rest untill CB is finished and then try to find out how it really should be.)
Talad = Luca = PlaneShift Project Leader..
anyways, let\'s NOT discuss this like I said and wait for AFTER crystal blue with any questions like this..
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Originally posted by Axsyrus
Then, while talking to Talad, it got even worse :P
He told me that even on my map, the cave was too small, it could go completely through the planet and cover the whole center of the planet too.
So that\'s how that notion came about. Could be wrong, who knows?
It\'s good that this discussion is taking place, because it draws attention to the idea and the Background Dev Team can think about it.
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Zeph\'s diagram is fundamentally wrong. People are drawn towards the center of the earth, at least, if they are inside Yliakum. Just look at the skydome texture as proof- the sky above has the shine of the Azure crystal. This proves that the crystal is above everyone\'s heads, not underneath their feet.
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Grono is right, we don\'t need to know all that. Planeshift is in medieval theme so I suppose people shouldn\'t know how all this works. And it\'s more fun (and good for rp) that you discover stuff by exploring the world, not gaining (too much) info from website and devs ;)
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Yeah but the Devs designining the game should think about the game\'s physics now, when the world is young, so as to prevent from designing an illogical world :)
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Originally posted by Mogura
Zeph\'s diagram is fundamentally wrong. People are drawn towards the center of the earth, at least, if they are inside Yliakum. Just look at the skydome texture as proof- the sky above has the shine of the Azure crystal. This proves that the crystal is above everyone\'s heads, not underneath their feet.
Lol, i wasnt saying that is how the game would work, just that it would work that way under current day physics :P
According to newton (who to be fair wasnt spot on), there is only two factors that affect gravity; amount of mass and distance from that mass.
Of course einstien slightly changed that, but for most puposes (i.e. when you are not moving at lightspeed) newton\'s is an accurate assumption
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You all are looking at this way to scientifically. Given the magical nature of the giant lake at the center, I believe the core of the planet is a spherical mass of life-giving water that is the source of all creation in the world. So there probably are other crystals and stalactites throughout the encircling cavern. On the outside the planet is likely just a barren lifeless place with massive crystals protruding out at various points. The stone labyrinths would in theory allow you to reach these other worlds, and that\'s how I\'ve always interpreted the meaning of \"Planeshift\".
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I would understand planeshift as traveling between different planes of existence (via portals or magic perhaps?). That\'s why the motto say \"A universe is not enough.\"...I guess.
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Some devs say: \"Don\'t worry about this until CB is out.\"
Does this mean that (a part of) the cavern is in CB? Now that would be cool! 8)
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Meh, Devs always say that. We\'re just need to do something while waiting for CB to be released (If that something is discussing the physics of the PS world...why not?) :D
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If the world were hollow, but rotating then you would have an \"artificial\" gravity field.
kind of like the thistledown in the \"Eon\" books.
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But if the world is hollow, think about all that wasted space...And I supposethe thing would collapse on itself somehow. Nah, I think it\'s best if the cave was considered a fraction of the size of the planet.
And the planet would also be frozen if it were hollow.
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hmm i was reading about this sort of problem b4 somewhere. i know it was when some people were talking about how gravity would work if the world was in a donut shape. bassically the same thing would occur as you all art talking about. Scientists think that much of gravity (or some say all of it) is due to mass. greater mass, greater gravity. so if you were in the exact center of the hole in that donut shape planet would you be torn from every angle? no one knows and much of the same problem is brought here. so really the only thing i can tell ya is to blame the crazy gravity stuff on magic and leave it at that.
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How about this:
\"In the shadowed depths below the lake Kadaikos lies a great black crystal. Legends say it contains the force that binds the people to the earth. The few who have seen it saw it gives off not light or color, it seems like it will even suck in any light around it. The even fewer who have touched it say it is the most dense object ever discovered and seems to be indestructible. \"
Since it is very dense it has a huge mass and thus lots of gravity. Science part solved.
I think it also fits into the world very well.
It would be located in the middle of Kadaikos (it would be deep under water in darkness so it\'s not easily visible), basicly an inverse of the Azure/Sapphire Crystal.
As the Azure/Sapphire Crystal represents life I think this black crystal can represent death.
Firstly it\'s shrouded in darkness.
There is a very good metafore for life and death, you can kind of see it in the map of the world. Water (which represents life) starts at the Azure/Sapphire Crystal (which represents giving life aka birth) and slowly flows and drips through the caves until it arrives at Kadaikos (which represents the collective lifes of the world) and the black crystal (which represents death).
It needs to be polished alittle, but I think it will work.
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Well thats an interesting solution to the gravity problem...It would be kinda cool, it wouldnt do anything \'cept sit there though.
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android was that quoted from the site? it doesnt seem right....
if it could suck in the light around it what would stop it from sucking off your hand or you for a lack of better words. in fact it should suck in the whole lake around it. if it was as dense as to keep people glued down on the ground i doubt anyone would live to say they touched it or even saw it for that matter.
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Look, it\'s a \'magical\' world;
a fantasy world.
Why try to apply logic where it is not needed?
This world can become whatever the devs want it to be, stop stressing over the exact physics of it.
Who cares if it makes no sense, it\'s mysterious that way, and mystery is an integral part of fantasy is it not?
This is not Earth, stop trying to make it like Earth.
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well he was trying to fix the exact physics by applying a physical object to balance the lack of centered gravity in a hollow world. Its very wrong, there fore i am correcting him, critisizing him, so he will get better in judgement and mind. This is what we humans like to call LEARNING.
Not trying to flame ya but its implied that post was in response to mine. And i have openly supported saying \"magic did it!\" because this is a game. So dont start pointing fingers at people who are not in favor of this philosophy because i am indeed one of them.
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My retort wasn\'t to you Whemy. It was to those who say not to claim that magic did it. It\'s a game in a magical world, who cares about physics?
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lol this thread is interesting
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ok here is a picture of the planet taken from space. The cave has been drawn in. the collumn thingy is !@#$. The azure sun is (). the cave outline is marked with *. The lake is marked with &. Hydlaa is yliakum is marked %. Kadiokus is marked ^. and as you can see talad is inside the planet watching over his people.
EDIT: oops this came out wrong awell
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Yeah hehe to properly display ASCII graphics on the board, you\'d need to add characters behind them:
..........( o ) o )
...............|
............-___-
Sort of thing. Might still mess it up a bit, but not as much as having it all saquashed to one side.
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Black crystal of super dense material... i am thinking... quantum sigularity?
And yes physics doesnt have to apply logically here, but when trying to understand anything logic is pretty much the only tool we have...
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Originally posted by whemyfield
android was that quoted from the site? it doesnt seem right....
if it could suck in the light around it what would stop it from sucking off your hand or you for a lack of better words. in fact it should suck in the whole lake around it. if it was as dense as to keep people glued down on the ground i doubt anyone would live to say they touched it or even saw it for that matter.
It\'s not from the site, I made it up.
It only seems to suck in the light because it\'s very very dark. Basicly so dark you can\'t see it, you can only see what\'s around it, kind of like a black hole although it does not suck things in.
The point is usually black crystals are shiny and give off a glare or reflection around light, where this black crystal does not.
Since the black crystal is shrouded in darkness deep under water it doesn\'t have to be put in the game, at least not yet.
I thought it would add something interesting to the story with the side effect of making the physics make sense.
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Oh someone brought this up again..
Originally posted by karakth
What\'s the planet\'s name though?
No one knows.. At least it haven\'t been stated anywhere(afaik) and I think the devs haven\'t even made it up yet..
Originally posted by Adeli
This world can become whatever the devs want it to be
Yes and I think the problem is that the devs don\'t know what they want..?
Originally posted by LastAndroid
\"In the shadowed depths below the lake Kadaikos lies a great black crystal. Legends say it contains the force that binds the people to the earth. The few who have seen it saw it gives off not light or color, it seems like it will even suck in any light around it. The even fewer who have touched it say it is the most dense object ever discovered and seems to be indestructible. \"
That\'s a great idea. In fact, it seems even logical.8o
I think it\'s quite hard to create physics when we don\'t even know the physics of our own world...
Zephyrus\'s map was just comical. Think how it feels to log in and immediately be sucked into that crystal and burn :) (Haven\'t you heard of the center of the mass? ;))
And what comes to discussing about these matters.. At least I find this more interesting than wondering what my weapon of choise will be...:rolleyes:
Edit: stupid typo
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You can\'t just solve it by adding more mass to the other side. That\'s just naive.
\'Tis magic that holds it together!
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I like LastAndroid\'s idea aswell, it might not be completely realistic, but at least it\'s logical and explainable.. I think you could at least blame magic for something like this :)
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This is true. When you create a fantastical world, you\'ll always get a bunch of geeks who get together and discuss it\'s physics. Deal with it.
I like the crystall idea, but wouldn\'t the crystall have to be superdense which then results in the top of the planet collapsing crystallward so you end up with:
(http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload0/planet.GIF)
Then the centre would start growing hot and, well...You end up with Earth.
And it\'s hard to imagine a situation of a universe with different physics to ours, because the physics of our universe is the basis of everything (Even the way our bodies look) so to change the physics is to change practically everything.
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The problem with a large Gravity Crystal or whatever is that it would cause lake Kadaikos to become somewhat spherical as the water at the edges of the lake will be relatively \"higher\" (farther from the crystal) than the center, until more of the water collects in the center.
Why do we need a spherical, newtonian world? I believe the resolution of these problems lies in the conclusion that the world is, obviously, flat. (I.e. a \"plane\") with gravity operating in a direction perpendicular to the world-plane.
Simplifies all these problems without resorting to pseudo-physics or countless special cases of magical forces holding everything in its right place.
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The \'Plane\' Idea does work for the game, but I always viewed it like this:
Let\'s assume that Yliakum tunnels about a mile into the earth(planet).
Since the crust of the planet obviously goes much deeper, we can assume that it isn\'t going to melt or anything.
Supposing the cave itself is 2-3 times the height of yliakum (Yliakum included) we can also see that it would most likely be possible.
The rest of the cave would still take up an incredibly small fraction of space in the planet.
Gravity would maintain it\'s effect at tolerable and almost-normal levels.
Where is the problem, again?
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Where is the problem, again?
The thing what Talad said.
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Hmm the problem is this: The size of the planet might only be a bit greater than the size of the 2nd big cave.
In our universe large bodies tend to group other bodies around them from all directions, resulting in a spherical shape. If this doesn\'t hold throguh for this planet, then, well...What does?
Also Yliakum would have to be much bigger than one mile (The Azure crystall itself is many miles above the heads of people in the uppermost level). So It might just go through the planet\'s crust.
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okay unless im mistaken the black crystal thing works except that everything would be glued to it et cetera.
so what if Talad/Laanx saw the threat in that and decided to put a vast magical field around it wich prevents anybody to get glued to it or whatever it was you said would happen :D.
*beams*
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will you guys get over it?
its a fantasy. its not ment to make sense
the planet could be a perfect pyramid for all we know
*kicks the surface* \"there! not perfect anymore :P \"
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Yes but why would the gods go through all that bother when they could just let it collapse on itself, and then create the caves in the new planet\'s crust?
Well yes it is a fantasy but fantasies should make sense physically. Even magic should make sense physically.
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Lol why is everyone becoming so hostile about it?
Frankly Syzerian we can discuss what we like, and yes we all know that its fantasy, and that logic doesnt have to apply here, we are simply looking at planeshift from a different PoV. Now why should we stop? unless physics makes you uncomfortable? :P
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These physics here are too naive and simplistic. MAGIC!
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Whemy has a protege.
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I think there\'s a concrete problem here.. Assuming that the planet is spherical and the cave really is that big and the water is actually dropping from the top to the bottom (and no black crystal). If a person digs trough the \"bottom\", what happens to him? Does he just fell off to the space? And how it would look to the people who had somehow made their way to the surface? To make clear what I\'m saying I draw this simplified picture:
(http://www24.brinkster.com/itsallcrap/problem.jpg)
(Inspiration taken from Zephyrus\'s map)
Tell me if I\'m missing some major point here...
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you are missing a major point, they would be attracted back to the crust, seeing as compared to them the crust, (i assume) would have a huge mass. so if they dug through they would find they were going down until halfway through the crust/shell/layer and then they would feel like they were digging up.
i.e. they dug through the center of mass. The center of mass is dictated by two things, amount of mass and distance from it. So in fact when inside the cave tyou are being pulled by all sides of the cave, but since you are much much much closer to the part you are stood on the ceter of mass will be below you
The problem with the water though is that it wont fall like that... its probably magic water. Or the cave is a lot smaller, maybe talad will change his mind. Or maybe the world isnt spherical, or maybe there is a black crystal...
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Although when they start to dig up, if they fall they\'ll just end up floating in mid-air then, right?
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yeah... they would dig up and then if they fell back they would fall towards the center of mass
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actually i was checking the history of Yliakum and it doesnt make much sense (unless of couse i am missing something major) okay here is what i think happened okay, in the planet they find a nich? they enlarge it and make a cave, okay, then the whole thing with Vod?l et cetera, and later Laanx finds a cave a hundred times bigger than the one they created with a big stalactite and the rain thing et cetera with a lake where they created Kadaikos, then all of a sudden everybodys inside the stalactite (except of course the ones who live in Kadaikos...) does this make sense to you?
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Hmm yes I didn\'t think it all trough... And what comes to the floating in the center of mass... I think they won\'t let us go that far then, thinking of all the coding they\'d have to do... Although Explorers Guild will get there anyway ;)
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actually you wouldnt float at all. really you would be ripped from every possible angle. you wouldnt want to be at the center of an objects mass trust me. well except your own really. lol
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Lol i dont think the physics will be this accurate
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And when some random Explorer finds it\'s way to the center, it can be solved with the /kill_stupid_nosy_explorer -command :)
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how would the explorer get there? I mean wouldnt it be kinda hard getting in the center of the planet?
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You would not be ripped apart at the center of mass of any object, except maybe at the orbital center of a binary black hole system or something nasty like that. You would just float there and feel almost nothing, since the particles in your body would experience equal forces in all directions (assuming that your fat, bloated body is somewhat smaller than the mass that you\'re at the center of).
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if you were in the center or a perfect sphere object you would indeed be pulled apart. the atoms in your feet are going to get pulled toward whatever part of the shere is closest to their feet because the part of the sphere closer to your head is going to be further away. You wouldnt just float there, scientist threw that theory a LONG time ago....
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If there was enough mass, but seeing as this planet is only a crust i am not sure you would be ripped apart
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Hmm the planets is unbalanced in mass because of Yliakum. The stalagtite and the crust it is attatched to is the biggest mass on the planet. So...Wouldn\'t everything collapse onto Yliakum and in time form a round world? :D
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Originally posted by The Gumster
how would the explorer get there? I mean wouldnt it be kinda hard getting in the center of the planet?
By glitching, duh?
And I think we need some official info from the dev people or something for atleast for me this has gone beyond my recognition, partially because I really don\'t know how planets work and partially because of the lack of my English skills :rolleyes:
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Hmm yes agreed the Dev team (Especially the Background Team) definitely need to release some info on this. Hey, maybe we\'ll have more info when CB comes out.
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No they don\'t. First there\'s magic and second, who said this is our universe and that our physical laws apply. The \"gravity\" you come across ingame might as well be something else.
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Originally said by lynx
who said this is our universe and that our physical laws apply.
i think i will have to go with Zephyrus here
Originally posted by Zephyrus
And yes physics doesnt have to apply logically here, but when trying to understand anything logic is pretty much the only tool we have...
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I agree with that quote, but you don\'t understand the point, which is different. :P
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Hmm but like I said before, change the laws of physics and you have to change the whole world. The races wouldn\'t be humanoid, etc.
And magic is just the easy way out. You could say that the boots of the people on PS are magically enchanted to attract to the ground, or Talad spends all his time enchanting unborn babies\' feet so that they are attracted to the ground :P
Physics > Magic
:D :D :D
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You don\'t need to delete gravity and explain everything with magic to understand how Yliakum can\'t collapse. Magic just make the rock stronger. Easy? :)
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Hmm...Perhaps, or maybe there\'s a greater picture we\'re all missing:
(http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload0/bigpic.JPG)
Although would it be enough to simulate gravity on Yliakum while not powerful enough to cause the planet to collapse on itself? Me thinks it would, although it would have to be delicately balanced.
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but the whole planet does not have to be hollow, perhaps it is a really really big planet and Yiliakum takes a little space.
\'cause it never said how far down Yiliakum is, only that the massive crystal had its roots there, could be anywhere in the planet really.
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karakth that\'s too naive. It couldn\'t work. Think of the surface or the spin...bleh
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i quite like the none spherical idea...
(http://www.darkzephyr.plus.com/planeshift2.JPG)
To my mind there are plenty of unique and original solutions that would give that game and interesting setting to say the least.
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Mmm ok nice map Zephyrus. However, how far would it extend, or would it just drop away after infinity? Also, would someone falling off the edge experience a fall and then a slam against the dense black stuff?
P.S. The planet with Yliakum could orbit PLANET X like the moon orbits the Earth (i.e. Only one face ever facing it).
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well yeah obviously it wouldnt work like that exactly
you would have another cube on the other side and a few smaller bits on the sides
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So it would be, essentially, cubishly round? :P
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exactly...ok i guess that idea doesnt work...
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ok lol i was just reading that part about being pulled apart when you are at center of planet.
Lol that was a funny part. How much difference is there in gravitational forces between your head and your feet? not alot lol. when in centre of planet gravity will pull all of you in every direction. So like head would be pulled by gravity above head and under head, with very miniscule differences. the only way you can really explode someone like that is to give them enough electrical charge so that the atoms have enough repulsion between themselves to break free and move apart.
but anyway moving on =P
i like that cool cubic idea lol. maybe like some giant space alien cut it out from a real planet then got sqaushed on the bottom to form the super dense black stuff.
lol but like the cubic perspective could be molded with the spherical idea. I dont think the planeshift world should be flat lol. But that would be a medieval idea... so ya lol
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maybe we could take a leaf out of Terry Pratchett\'s books (The Discworld Novels) and make it a disc.
carried on the back of four elephants who stand on the back of a giant turtle :P
just a suggestion :)
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Hmm...The Gumster\'s right. Not about ripping off TP, of course, but maybe we could think up something original like that. Hmm...
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what??! your saying that a giant stalgtite surounded by a gaint cave, and inside the stalagtite shines light from a giant portruding crystal that beams light into it and provides life ISNT original? your both off your rockers. and ripping of TP isnt something to be even considered! i mean first of all copyright infringement, 2nd of all we want something that is ORIGINAL not taken, and 3rdly i we already have it IN PLACE. No changing it, its here accept it, and help make changes on it by explaining physics, lore. that will ease the load for the devs.
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Hmm well yes I thought we were supposed to find out, not to invent, how the planet works... I\'m no longer trying to find it out though. I\'ll just wait for someone to tell me :)
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I never said anything about changing the Stalagtite inside a cave. Just adding stuff to it to explain the physics (like TP added his turtle). An example I suggested is PLANET X. Hmm.
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Originally posted by Ripostellar
Hmm well yes I thought we were supposed to find out, not to invent, how the planet works
why not? gotta do something \'till CB
might as well try to explain/invent why the planet hasn\'t collapsed on itself
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Keep the posts comming Zeph and Kara.
To simply say it is the way it is because of \"magic\" will keep me awake at night trying to picture the PS world in my head. I will probably come to the conclusion that the planet is not a planet at all, but it is in fact a ball of pollen from one of those Dr. Suese trees.
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The planet wouldn\'t implode. The only problem you found is gravity.
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Well it would implode if it was hollow and one hemisphere had considerably more mass than the other hemisphere. Of course, I still say the PLANET X theory would work, if it was balanced just about right.
There\'s always another possibility: The PS world isn\'t hollow.
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yes like i said before the planet could be massive and the cave is just a tiny part of it.
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Uh...You weren\'t the one to come up with that, Gumster :P
But then again Talad said that the cave might go through the whole planet...
Anyway, I feel like I\'m beating up a dead horse here, so I\'m just going to stop now...uh...yeah.
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Hmmm, maybe it could be like this?
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/437124/Gravity.JPG
Maybe this way you could keep the planet semi balanced?
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Hmm let\'s try and keep a few things in mind:
1) The whole \"Hollow World\" thing is not even official, and was just a tiny comment passed by Talad. This was enough to spark the interest of the large chunk of the PS comunity that are interested in physics. However, this was only a comment, and has been given overdue attention. The most probable chance is that the world will not be this way.
2) Even the Xacha Scientists have not even dreamt of planets. The furthest their philosophical thought got was a cavern under Yliakum, already a large concept. Excitement is in mystery, and while getting to the bottom of things is fun, we have to remember that this is an MMORPG. We will never have any use at all for this knowledge, as the inhabitants of Yliakum can barely think to the scope of the great cavern beneath them. We, as roleplayers of these people, will never need to know if the world is hollow or not.
3) In discussing this, we\'ve shrunken Yliakum to a fraction of its size. We don\'t really think of it as being very big, just a tiny stalagtite comparitively. Yliakum is actually a huge world, at the very least the size of Faerun. There are still many, many things to explore in Yliakum, and only when we have exhausted them should we go on to seek grander things. We would be better off discussing the different levels of Yliakum, or Yliakum\'s ecosystem.
Edit: Spelling
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So what you\'re saying is this:
The town we walk around in now is just s very small part of a level (probably the 1st or 2nd) of Yliakum.
Hmmm... never thought about it that way. Well, then it is huge indeed. :)
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Originally posted by karakth
Uh...You weren\'t the one to come up with that, Gumster :P
But then again Talad said that the cave might go through the whole planet...
Anyway, I feel like I\'m beating up a dead horse here, so I\'m just going to stop now...uh...yeah.
okay i didnt come up with that, whatever :)
Talad said the cave might go through the planets core (or was it the whole planet? i cant remember :P).
i agree, it is much better just to eat the horse
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Just on the planet X theory:
If Planet X was exerting enough gravitational pull on the planeshift world for it to be felt (as an orientation through the ps world), the planeshift world would fall onto planetX.
If the ps world orbited planetX fast enough for the centrifugal force to balance its orbit and prevent it falling, it would also balance the perceived gravity on the ps world: Effectively the ps world would have \'zero-g\' or be in perpetual \'freefall\' like a spacecraft in orbit around earth.
Hows that for a spanner in the works ;)
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that world dosen\'t have to have the same physics as ours...
it could be in another membrane with diffrent strings conected to it - it dosen\'t even have to have gravity.
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we could have it so it is \"glued\" together by \"magic\".
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I got from when Talad said \"the planet\" he meant our planet. So the cave is so big that it could fit planet Earth inside it -- although just barely.
I\'m right, end of discussion. :p
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A thought struck me about why it might rain in planeshift; it might be the condensation on the roof of the stalagtite thats cooled down and is dripping off. Of course if its big enough it might just be clouds, still the condensation idea is interesting, because then you would end up with lots of rainbows as there is no cloud blocking the su... crystal.
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When in doubt, blame magic. Magic can explain anything regardless how obscure.
EOD
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Yes! alright! for the 50000000th time we have covered the magic explanation! sorry... it just starts to get a bit old
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Clouds are not a problem, rain is. If the ceiling is as smooth as in normal caves, little water would drop from it and it would be a little stream falling(not dispersed).
The ceiling would have to be really coarse and bumpy or have many stalactites.
(http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~dicaprio/pics/ge136/013med.jpg)
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I think it would disperse. I once emptied a bucket full of water from a balkony in seventh floor. Around the first 5 meters it was one stream, but lower it dispersed in big drips and the bigger ones splitted again on their way down.
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Originally posted by Zephyrus
Originally posted by Mogura
Zeph\'s diagram is fundamentally wrong. People are drawn towards the center of the earth, at least, if they are inside Yliakum. Just look at the skydome texture as proof- the sky above has the shine of the Azure crystal. This proves that the crystal is above everyone\'s heads, not underneath their feet.
Lol, i wasnt saying that is how the game would work, just that it would work that way under current day physics :P
According to newton (who to be fair wasnt spot on), there is only two factors that affect gravity; amount of mass and distance from that mass.
Of course einstien slightly changed that, but for most puposes (i.e. when you are not moving at lightspeed) newton\'s is an accurate assumption
Ok, I didn\'t read this whole thread but the first couple of pages were all the same arguments. I took Physics and from what I remember, Physics is deriven from facts. Now we have todays facts from the way the earth is. Why can PlaneShift\'s world have completely different Gravity? Along with different Physics... They may have to be proven, but this is a \"fantasy world\" not earth. Even if some things are simlar can not others be completely different? Thats how I feel anyway, seems people are refering back to modern day life.
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Yes, but if you change the physics of a universe you will change everything about it. If the Planeshift world has different physics, then why do the animal\'s bodies work as if they were on Earth?
Also, if you can make up some laws of physics for Planeshift, post them here.
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Well there\'s many different reasons for Earth\'s gravity, I thought it was mainly because of the sun. Where gravity changed as you left the surface blah blah blah formula for further you are away to determine the GFS. Hell I don\'t remember all my physics...
The sun is so large it makes a gravitational field that makes planets orbit around it. The reason for current planets ability for people to stay on the surface, perhaps is due to the Earth\'s mass balancing the field.
As for PlaneShifts gravity, could it not be due to a big mass (Planet) like I saw posted, outside the surface creating a Gravitational Force. However having a smaller mass on the opposite side with enough mass to keep it from being drug towards the big mass. So it would be hovering between two big masses (planets?) Perhaps the PS Universe is unlike our own? Who created the Universe anyway, why does it have to be like the current?
I was originally thinking if the PS world span fast enough it would cause a Field, however this would end up being a mighty big pain in the ass for people in Yliakum who would not want to be sucked towards the Crystal ;)
So thats my views, seems like everything is coming back to whats proven in our current standings. When in all honesty \"Fantasy\" means we can literally make whatever we want, modify anything and not have it tied to what we know must be true today. Thats the beauty of Fantasy :) Hell maybe there\'s a magnetic strength stopping the two planets from colliding.