PlaneShift
Gameplay => Guilds Forum => Topic started by: Kuiper7986 on February 03, 2004, 04:26:37 am
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The Evil Aligned Guilds have the Dark Alliance.
The Good Aligned Guilds have the Citadel of Light.
What about the Neutral Guilds? (Only pure neutral, not chaotic neutral or lawful neutral.)
Neutral Guilds should have an alliance to. Since neutral guilds are set on their own, they should of course have their own ideals not set by good or evil, but at least come to some sort of agreement that there could\'ve been an emergence in wealth. For instance lets say a an evil guild tries to take over, well then the Neutral guilds can sign a temporary treaty of friendship with other neutral guilds to summon an army to stop the evil guild from taking over.
Nothing would change about the individual guilds. All the neutral guilds will still hold neutral status and maintain their own rules. Except with this they can have inter-guild trading and have some political power that will maintain neutralization of the present neutral guilds.
Some names:
-Suzerainty of Independence
(Soo-zer-ray-in-tee)
-The Nonpartisan Congregation
\"Sodalitas Quietus Civitas\" - Latin
Fellowship Neutral States
True Meaning: Fellowship of the Neutral States.
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UM.. doesnt that defeat the purpose of being neutral?
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Hence I quote, \"Nothing would change about the individual guilds. All the neutral guilds will still hold neutral status and maintain their own rules. Except with this they can have inter-guild trading and have some political power that will maintain neutralization of the present neutral guilds.\"
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But why would a neutral guild stop the evil guilds from taking over? Wouldn\'t fighting evil make them good?
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My bad, I\'ll explain better. Lets take out the evil part and lets just say there\'s a guild threatening to destroy all neutral guilds. Then the guilds can band together to stop that guild from taking over.
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But why would a neutral guild stop the evil guilds from taking over? Wouldn\'t fighting evil make them good?
No, that makes them neutral. Y\'know, maintaining the balance. Good guilds fight evil all the time, neutral guilds fight evil that is threatening to destroy the balance.
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Neutral means not careing either way. They do not go towards good or bad... like Canada, their neutral...
So in conclusion...
Neutral Guilds + Alliance = Pointless
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you are soooooo wrong, Sav (and all others that think neutral guilds don\'t need alliance)
let\'s say there are few normal neutral guilds and one mighty evil guild. Now what if the evil guild decides to conquer all others? One after another, there wouldn\'t be any problem. But what if they unite? They can stand a fighting chance. There we go, alliance between neutral guilds is ready.
Other thing is that neutral guilds already have alliances, so what\'s the point of this thread?
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Neutral being allied with non neutral makes some sense, but netural and neutral = stupid and useless. Don\'t make Savion give you the mathimatical formula...
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uhh... neutral + neutral = stupid and useless? ?(
so... warrior guild + mage guild = stupid and useless? that\'s.... weird...
actually going down into maths...
(warrior guild + warrior guild = more power ^ warrior guild + warrior guild = stupid and useless) <=> more power = stupid and useless
...
?(
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Strange math there. ?(
Neutral alliances are fine! Imagina an alliance of true neutral guilds, fighting together to keep the Balance. Nothing wrong with that. :rolleyes:
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I agree with Lynx and Draklar. United neutral guilds make sense, just as much sense as anything, after all they have the same goal as each other as well.
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Originally posted by Draklar
uhh... neutral + neutral = stupid and useless? ?(
so... warrior guild + mage guild = stupid and useless? that\'s.... weird...
actually going down into maths...
(warrior guild + warrior guild = more power ^ warrior guild + warrior guild = stupid and useless) <=> more power = stupid and useless
...
?(
Nice logic, Draklar! As 4 me, I think that Neutral Guilds Alliance makes some sence and it has a right to be. But what will it bring up??? That is totally another question.
When all Good and Evil guilds have almost the same aims (the triumf of Good or Evil), all Neutral Guilds have their own aims (AO - to become the center of Magic, Rangers - to preserve peace, etc). So the Union itself is possible. But what will be the aim of that Union...
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I don\'t think an union of all the neutral guilds is a good thing. Why?
- being allied with guilds you don\'t know is bad.
- i don\'t think it\'s a good thing for a guild A to have no choice but switch into war when one of the neutral guild B is attacked, for example if the guild A didn\'t like external guild B policy. And if you don\'t force guilds to switch into war, what\'s the point of the alliance.
- large alliances always break into pieces.
- it freeze all the diplomaty in all the guilds of the alliance.
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Yeah, all neutral guilds should now start a big alliance because it isn\'t stupid and useless!
Guilds are neutral because they don\'t care about other guilds, if they would like to balance things they should be good(in an evil world) or evil(in a good world).
\"more power = stupid and useless\" It is stupid and useless if your goal isn\'t to become powerfull..
anyways, I think guilds can make their own decisions.. AO is allied with rangers, 2 neutral guilds, we just don\'t need any fancy names :P
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for Rangers - aid from mage guild
for AO - spying services and some fighting aid as well
(that\'s possible at least)
they don\'t need same goals to help each other
*prods Elscouta and Axsyrus*
umm.... Dark Alliance is alliance of two guilds... and Citadel of Light... two as well... so where did you get the idea of ALL neutral guilds getting an alliance
\"It is stupid and useless if your goal isn\'t to become powerfull..\" you know, some people might think that dedicating your life to help others isn\'t stupid and useless :rolleyes:
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I completely agree with everything Axsyrus said
Let the guilds take care about their diplomacy.
Draklar: and? that prove we need to be allied with all the other neutral guilds? And that was what Kuiper asked:
ALL the neutral guilds will still hold neutral status and maintain their own rules. Except with this they can have inter-guild trading and have some political power that will maintain neutralization of the present neutral guilds.
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notice the after \'all\' word, he seems to mean already mentioned guilds and that would be the ones that joined the alliance
mentioning Dark Alliance proves that he didn\'t mean all guilds, just like DA isn\'t all evil ones.
and alliance between few neutral guilds isn\'t stupid and pointless since it helps you to achieve thy goals. Like by gaining more power.
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I can see the Neutral guilds joining forces to stop some large evil plot.
ok say for ex. Evil guild A,B and C all work on a plan to destroy Good guild Z. Everything is working fine and Z is about dead. However the Neutral guilds realize that if the Evil guilds win.. then the evil guilds will be able to control all the local markets etc.. The standards of living will be lowered (ie the locals will be beat within an inch of their life if they dont pay protection money etc...). The neutral guilds think hey not only will Evil be over balanced but the out come will affect us in a negative way. They react by helping the good aligned guild to hold off the Evil guild just enough to where the evil guild can not win and it is costing them to much to sustain the attacks. There by causing them to cease the attacks long enough for the good guild Z to get help and Balance to be restored.
Just an idea. But remeber this could be reversed also. It could be the good forces trying to cleanse the land of evil. In which case the Neutral guilds would perhaps help the Evil guild so as to stop the overly cumbersom govermental politics of the good forces from tying up free trade in the town etc..
Bah then again, Neutral guilds will do as they wish any ways. That is why they are neutral. lol So have fun.
Just some ideas.
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like I said.. \"I think guilds can make their own decisions\", we don\'t need you to tell us what we should do..
it\'s stupid and useless to become powerfull if you don\'t want to become powerfull, isn\'t that what \"useless\" means in the first place, something you don\'t use?
\"dedicating your life to help others\", are we suddenly talking about good guilds now?
I don\'t see why you people think neutral guilds aren\'t alied in the first place.. I said AO and rangers were allied, \"we just don\'t need any fancy names\"
and now stop making me having to quote myself all the time.. I really start to get the feeling you don\'t read my posts or something..
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we don\'t need you to tell us what we should do..
agreed...
it\'s stupid and useless to become powerfull if you don\'t want to become powerfull
thanks to becoming powerful you are able to help others. Helping others is your main goal, power isn\'t.
you call that stupid?
\"dedicating your life to help others\", are we suddenly talking about good guilds now?
You said it\'s stupid if your goal isn\'t te become more powerfull. Just giving example when it\'s not true. Something wrong with that?
I don\'t see why you people think neutral guilds aren\'t alied in the first place..
agreed here as well: \"Other thing is that neutral guilds already have alliances, so what\'s the point of this thread?\"
btw: why did you quote \"more power = stupid and useless\" - it was just a prove that Dameon is wrong...[/color]
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Originally posted by Draklar
it\'s stupid and useless to become powerfull if you don\'t want to become powerfull
thanks to becoming powerful you are able to help others. Helping others is your main goal, power isn\'t.
you call that stupid?
\"dedicating your life to help others\", are we suddenly talking about good guilds now?
You said it\'s stupid if your goal isn\'t te become more powerfull. Just giving example when it\'s not true. Something wrong with that?
I said IF you don\'t want to become powerful, it\'s useless to become powerful. Helping others would be the goal of a good alligned guild, not that of a neutral guild.
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It is stupid and useless if your goal isn\'t to become powerfull..
there, here you have oryginal sentence, now please show me exactly where do you see \"IF you don\'t want to become powerful\"[/color]
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First of all ... The Dark Pact also exists as an alliance for some evil guilds (Black Order & Cabal).
And about your ideas ... heh ... like most of the guys pointed out, neutral means to stay neutral, between two sides. So an alliance? Heh for what? Useless ...
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can\'t you read?
Originally posted by Draklar
for Rangers - aid from mage guild
for AO - spying services and some fighting aid as well
(that\'s possible at least)
both guilds are neutral, right? right!
those guilds are allied, right? right!
each could get something from other, right? right!
cabal could attack one of them and other could to defend, right? right!
so is this alliance useless? by simple logic - NO!
[/color]
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Originally posted by Draklar
It is stupid and useless -->if<-- your goal isn\'t to become powerfull..
there, here you have oryginal sentence, now please show me exactly where do you see \"IF you don\'t want to become powerful\"[/color]
ok, underlined+bold+italic+arrows, hope you can spot it now :rolleyes:
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wait bah, I\'m a fool, that\'s not what I meant :|
I wanted to say where do you see \"it\'s stupid and useless to become powerfull\" there (quoted wrong thing =/)
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huh? I can\'t at least... :D
[edit]But... but ... but ... Draklar admits he was wrong 8o. [/edit]
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if your goal isn\'t to become powerful, I think you don\'t want to become powerful, or else your goal would be to become powerful :\\
if you want something you make it your goal, if you don\'t want something you don\'t make it your goal, so I did say it, just in different words..
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Why am I neutral? Why is my guild neutral?
Like all people we are neither good nor bad, we are the grey.
What the heck is the goal of neutrality? That will be defined by the actions of the members of the guild. Currently the guild exists to help it\'s members.
Why do we have alliances? Gee, I wonder...
Why would I chose not to participate in a grand-neutral-alliance?
It isn\'t needed at the moment. When a side is slowly winning and is near victory, it will be obvious. Thusly, alliances will be formed naturally at that time.
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sorry, got lost for a moment =/
and no, that doesn\'t mean same thing: You may want to become powerful if your goal is to help others. So your goal isn\'t to become powerful, still you may want to become powerful... I mean why not? Still it isn\'t your goal. but then again it\'s about good guild. Still there might be other goals for neutral guilds, but that doesn\'t mean the guild doesn\'t want to become powerful btw.that\'s what I meant, sorry =/
take Explorers for example - they don\'t have goal to become powerful, but do you think they don\'t want to achieve it by the way?
so to make it straight:
I agree: it\'s useless to become powerful if you don\'t want to
but: if you become powerful it\'s easier to achieve other goals
[edit]c\'mon people... stop with the incorrectable thing already :(.... I could point few arguments where I admited I was wrong, with Axsyrus over statue, or about alignment of OI, or Helhunters (or something like that) and about necromancers being evil... so please just stop, it\'s unfair :([/edit]
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Originally posted by Draklar
I could point few arguments
I assume you meant a few arguments but it\'s a fun and revelative typo :D. But you\'re right, that\'s unfair :P
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uhhh.... ok, I think this argument was born from misunderstanding:
while I thought Ax meant
it\'s stupid not to have becoming powerful as goal,
he probably meant
it\'s stupid to become powerful if you don\'t want too:
\"It is stupid and useless if your goal isn\'t to become powerfull..\"
see? could be taken either way :/
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Well, what can i say? I like alliances, but they are of no use, if the members hardly know each other and can therefor not really trust each other. Sure, the more neutral guilds are allied, the more power the alliance would gain, but then again the bigger the alliance, the harder it gets to make decisions and to control the whole thing.
So what is it i want to say? Alliances are a good thing as long as they are not too big, have a purpose and are close knit.
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I completely agree Morgy, I think that\'s the best opinion about this alliance thingy that was posted here so far...
Elscouta: I think I could point some ;) more, however I don\'t think you could point ones where I was prooven wrong and still didn\'t admit it
edit: I\'m confusing even myself :P (it\'s a bit late...)
yea, that\'s what I mean :)
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I\'m confused now, but I\'m going to say what I think, which is also what I think Draklar means.
Power is means to an end. If your goal is to look after yourself, and you keep getting run over by other guilds, it\'s not gonna happen. You need power. If your goal is to maintain balance, and you are getting pushed around by every and any other guild, it\'s not gonna happen, you need power. Alliances=power. That\'s why it would be good for Neutral guilds to have an Alliance.
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Ok, everybody already knew this, neutral guilds already have alliances, useless thread, was just started because neutral guilds should make alliances with uber-cool names like \"The Dark Alliance\" or \"The Citadel of Light\" too..
I say close this, before any other people get confused..
PS. yes, Draklar, that\'s exactly what I meant, that\'s what the word \"IF\" was for ;)