PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Kixie on February 11, 2004, 07:43:14 pm
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Well mostly there are nice people on this forum so hopefully I\'ll get my question asked.
I hate normal jobs. It sucks to be in a normal routine every day to just go to work and work on something boring and dumb. Thats why I definally want to pursue a job that is different where I dont have to go into a cubicle or an office. I have thought about a bounty hunter but they dont get paid well...
So a work at home job would work great for me. I would love to work on the computer or something related to that. I am taking photoshop classes later this year so I have been thinking of being a web designer. I already know hmtl so this seems like the most logical route to me. But for one i dont know how much this really pays, so my first question is.. Does anyone know somone who works as a web designer? How much is the usual pay? High or very low?
Now to my 2nd job choice. Being a game developer. I have had lots of good gaming ideas and I would love to make games and be a 3d modler and texture designer. the Question i have for this is, What kind of work schedule is there for this line of work? Do i go into a building, get told by a supervisor to work on this model and this texture and then when im done I work on another they give me? What exactly happens in a normal day for a game developer?
3rdly my last choice is a musician. I am a very good guitarist and it would be cool to persue a career with it. I know I can go to a musical college and work at a recording studio but I dont think I would like doing that much at all. So my question is, Is there much demand for online musicians? Do many game developers want musicians to work for them? Is music an integral part of making a game? I watched that discovery channel special on the making of Crimson Skies, and it seemed like music was very important to them. Is this true or normal?
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(http://www.html4.com/mime/jpg/Will_code_HTML_for_food.jpg)
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Originally posted by Leander256
(http://www.html4.com/mime/jpg/Will_code_HTML_for_food.jpg)
HEY!!! HOW DID YO FIND THAT PIC OF ME???!!! lol but really I really need my questions answered.
Also i forgot to ask, I know i need to learn c++ to develop games but what other things do most of you use when developing a game. I need to know what to learn before i can get a job....
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beeing a programmer myself I can tell you one, no, two things:
- most of the time you are not doing creative work, what in fact is the real fun about programming. A lot of the time is spent on design-blahblah and assurance of quality, as well as performane analysis and bug fixing/avoiding
- If you are in a project you have to get used to work many more hours hours than your contract says without getting paid for it (at least where I come from my worst week so far had 80 hours) as well as to sleepovers at the office.
For software development to work properly you need a lot of correspondence with the ppl in your team. In spite of instant messengers, email and video conferences I don\'t think working at home will ever work too well in these jobs.
Hm that sounds very negative, but don\'t get me wrong: I still like what I do. ;)
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see i relize both of these things but i really want to know what i need to start taking classes in. i dont even know where to start.
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Originally posted by Pogopuschel
For software development to work properly you need a lot of correspondence with the ppl in your team. In spite of instant messengers, email and video conferences I don\'t think working at home will ever work too well in these jobs.
That\'s true, but its certainly is possible for a development team to work without actually meeting in person; take the Planeshift team, for example (or practically anything on Sourceforge, or, to a lesser extent, anything open source).
Whemyfield:
It all depends on what you want to do. Most games these days are programmed in C++, so that\'s a given if you want to program. Although you mentioned modeling and texturing, for this you would need a proper background in graphic design. Modelers rarely program and vice versa.
If you\'re overly creative at all, programming probably isn\'t for you, for the reasons mentioned by Pogo. I\'ve seen too many reasonably good programmers get burnt out simply because the work doesn\'t reward creativity. Although Software Engineering is certainly a bit more of a creative avenue than Computer Science, but if you\'re going to make use of Software Engineering, you\'ll most likely need managerial experience, too.
I\'ve recently read that, in the game industry, experience is more important than credentials. That is, if you can show that you know how to work, via a demo (for programmers) or a render (for modelers), then you don\'t need as much of a proper education, although it certainly helps. So, I would recommend getting involved in a project while you\'re learning, or trying to get a job; especially one you can use as a referance.
Heh, \"Will code HTML for food\"; the real work is in PHP, you hungry hobo. But that does give me an idea...
Grakrim:\"Will code for rubies\" ;)
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Originally posted by Grakrim
Originally posted by Pogopuschel
Heh, \"Will code HTML for food\"; the real work is in PHP, you hungry hobo. But that does give me an idea...
Grakrim:\"Will code for rubies\" ;)
*throws a (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/images/icons/rubycr.gif) at grakrim*
code me a nice program that tells one over and over how great the person who uses the program is... oh, and put in some fancy colours :P
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Sorry to do this, but I can\'t just ignore a challange like that...
#include
#include
#include
int main(int, char**)
{
unsigned char fore = 0, back = 7;
enum {UP, DOWN} direction = UP;
std::string name;
std::cout << \"Name please\\n\";
std::cin >> name;
while(true)
{
textcolor(fore);
textbackground(back);
std::cout << name << \"is great!\\n\";
if(kbhit())break;
if(direction == UP)
{
if(fore == 7)
{
direction = DOWN;
fore--;back++;
}
else
{
fore++;back--;
}
}
else if(direction == DOWN)
{
if(fore == 0)
{
direction = UP;
fore++;back--;
}
else
{
fore--;back++;
}
}
}
}
I haven\'t tested it, but it should work... I\'ll have to dig out my DOS compiler...
The use of means this will only work in very few cases. That is, only programs compiled with a MS-DOS target; yes, no *nix, no Win32. And yes, there are better ways to do this, but I don\'t care.
If you\'d like, I can make a binary version available soon enough...
Now for that ruby, sucka\'... Err...What do you mean its illegal to use rubies in that way? Bah! Damn you, Xalthar! :P
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whemy,
You first need to really decide what you\'re good at and, more importantly, what you like to do. If creativity is something that comes naturally to you, I doubt you\'ll want to be a programmer. Programming is about 95% logic and 5% creativty, and most programming jobs involve way more planning and discussion than actual coding.
And tons of people have great ideas, but that means that you should send them to open-source coders (software companies have more than enough ideas and probably get tons more in the mail anyway, so I doubt they\'ll listen to you) and go do something else that suits you better. I read an article once about people asking if there was a \'think tank\' job for the software industry, as in a guy who does nothing but sit around and think of new ideas for games. Their answer was, of course, no :P
So if you\'re on the creative side, you can still get invovled in creating games. You said you know a bit about creating computer art and making music. So I\'d say your best bet is to try to work with a game in development (hmm, I know of this great open-source MMORPG called PS you might be interested in ;) ) and try to get on the team. If they use your artwork/music, you might be able to go to a real software company and use the previous game as a reference. As Grakrim (basically) said, hands-on experience is way more valuable than just education (but it is of course still important).
EDIT: Oh yeah, this guy game to our Systems Analysis class today and told us all this stuff about getting jobs and such. One thing he said is that your first job will probably be really boring and pay you hardly anything, but use that job to gain as much experience about work environment and business as possible, as well as doing some darn good work to (hopefully) get a good reference, then bugger out of there and go for a slightly better job. Just a small piece of advice from something I remember from class in between naps :)
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thank you xandria for finally putting this in perspective for me. I guess that i should work on my music then because everything else kinda seems boring and dull. But dont the 3d animators on the team have to have some sort of creativity?
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You should also consider the amount of money you want to earn in the long run and what wishes you have regarding house, cars, expensive hobbies, family, etc.
Music can be considered a hobby - if you are good than that is only the entrance ticket ... its all about image more or less and then money ;)
But why are you limiting yourself down to like 3 jobs? I think there are a lot more possibilities.
You see i am studying economics ... but i do not really favor working in an enterprise like 10 hours a day for 6 days a week. I have no idea what i am going to do - but i know that i want to have enough free time to do funny, interessting, exciting stuff.
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Well there are 3 seperate jobs i can have as a guitarist. I can work at local pubs 3 nights a week. Then I can also develop game music. And finally I can work as a day job at a record company being a back up musician for pop singers and bands whose guitarist couldnt make it to record that day.
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Well its a start i suppose but they are rather short-termed jobs arent they? I mean you could do it for a couple of years but after that what else can you do?
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actually a studio artists is more of a lifetime career. working at bars is easy because i can always find another one. and finding another game to work on is REALLY easy.
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Ever thought about doing a SWOT* Analysis on the jobs? Thats what you get for studying economics ;) I think though that it could help you to decide on what job would be the best for you.
*Strength, Weakness, Opportunities, Threats for those who didnt hear of it before. Some edutainment doesnt hurt does it?
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a swot? i have no idea where to start...
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It could go like:
Game Programmer:
Strengths (whats good about the job):
- Good Pay
- team orientated job
Weakness (whats bad about the job):
- Working up to 80 hours a week
- dull work?
- little creativity involved
Opportunities (what could affect your job from the outside positively):
- game companies turnover is steadily rising (dont know if this is right but i think so)
Threats (same as above negatively):
- cheap programmers in asia
- green card indian (from india) people working for nothing
hope that helps - ask other people what they think (will help you to get a more objective view on the jobs)
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THERE IS NO FUTURE IN GAME DEVELOPMENT, ONLY A CRAPLOAD OF COMPETITION. YOU WILL NOT GET A JOB IN GAME DEVELOPMENT. THE PAY IS NOT WORTH IT. GET ANOTHER JOB AND WORK ON AN OPEN-SOURCE PROJECT LIKE PLANESHIFT.
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oh your just a big pecimest davis... :rolleyes:
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and your shift key seems to be stuck davis :P
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Davis is right. There are thousands of really great programmers who want to be game programmers and only about 10 studios.
Wanting to this is like wanting to direct movies. Really.
- Venge
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Pessimist side:
I agree, for you to make games(code) you already have to be better than people on planeshift, programming wise. There\'s more than 10 studios ;), but the biggest studios are the ones that pay good. There\'s no chance to make it there unless you already have 3 good years of experience and not just helping out a game project, but actually writing code.
As for 3d modeling for games, I believe it\'s even harder to find a job. Look at it this way, the current games don\'t require much pollys. MMORPGS, even the new wave, is nothing special for experienced modelers to do. If you want to consider 3d modeling seriously, I think there\'s a future in 3d movies and cartoons like Shrek ;).
Overall, good luck finding job in US developing games. There\'s people who come here just to be able to get computer related jobs because Americans pay more. With all that competition...
Optimist side:
You can start developing your own games with a group of friends. Slowly learn the material needed and develop a game. Who knows, maybe somebody will even play it
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See i dont agree with the pecimists in this room for this reason. if your good at c++ or any other programing language you could always make flash games. Just get flash mx and use your skills to make a 1 man game! then if its good enough or you have enough simple little games you could make a website and sell your games. very good way to make money!
One example is tactics core. Its like a new age chess (basically) slightly different rules and radically different peices, but a chess game none the less. I lived and breathed that game for a while. search for it on google, they have made lots of money with gold accounts...
But really there are lots of ways to put programing skills to good use! i wish i knew how... so ill just have to learn! :D
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Here\'s what you gotta do if you really want to be a game programmer.
It is recommended to get a degree in software engineering or computer science. Equally good is a school to specifically teach game programming.
Here\'s where you might have a problem.... experience. If you didn\'t work on anything at school that is game-related, you need to make your own experience. Learn to tools necessary to what you want to SPECIALIZE in. If you don\'t specialize, you might have problems.
Experience is really essential since you need to show that you can make them money. That\'s what it\'s all about in the end. It may be enough just to show them that you can code in openGL and whatnot. You don\'t need to make a game by yourself.
That said, I also wanted to be a game programmer, but decided against it since it kinda restricts what jobs you can find. Specializing in the IT fields is more practical in my opinion.... Could be loads of fun too having a few servers at home for fun.
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if yer into the modeling side of things heres what i suggest (i currently am looking for a job as a CGI artist while i sit my arse in my cushy EA games tester job)
1. learn 3DSmax and MAYA (there are plenty of other proggies too that it cant hurt to learn)
2. Decide the sort of CGI u wanna work on.. low-poly/high poly, particles & effects/Scenery/Characters, animation/still renders etc
3. take a look at some of the stuff out there, it will give u an idea of the level at which u need to be working
4. play around with some ideas
5. Build a portfolio.. put it onto a webpage or burn it to a VCD/DVD
6. distribute your portfolio to a large number of companies
heres an anim i am putting into my portfolio (be warned its nearly 10mb)
http://www.freepgs.com/dedjed/jellyfish.mpg