PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Deddarus on February 12, 2004, 07:35:07 pm
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ok on the server i used to work for we were constantly trying to encourage the playerbase to hunt in teams.. these werre some ideas thrown around, ameneded for the ps environment
1. co-op doors in dungeons etc
basically a door with 2 switches spaced far enough apart that 1 person cannot open it.. therefore requiring teamwork to enter
2. combinable skills/magic
mainly this one is concentrated on magic but this concept can be applied to skills too i suppose
say u have classes of magic (lets call them water air earth + fire for simplicity)
a mage can only belong to 1 class
2 or more mages together can combine their classes as such:
fire + water = mist
fire + earth = volcanic
fire + air = dragons breath
water + earth = slime
water + air = tornado/storm
earth + air = meteor
fire + water + earth = lava
fire + water + air = brimstone
fire + earth + air = comet
water + earth + air = ??
fire + water + earth + air = apocalypse
names here r just examples...they could be anything
3. obstacles that require abilities of more than 1 race
eg a door that requires 2 keys, 1 from underwater the other from a platform in the air..thus u need a swimming race and a flying race
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so no mages that specialize in all 6 ways? bad idea...
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i dont think we should encourage any type of play, or discourage any time of play. Some people rp as a loner. So they wouldnt be in a party if thier life depended on it. plus its hard to create parties sometimes. Sometimes your new and you dont know anyone. And if you only know a few people then they might be offline. You simply cannot encourage team play to that extent. If people want to make a party, fine. If they dont, thats equaly fine.
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this wouldnt force ppl to team play.. rather it would make some areas of the world only accessible to those that do
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yes...........Forcing people to form a team to get to that area. therefore you would be forcing ppl to team play...
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i dont see the problem with that.. as long as you dont limit their play by making it nescessary to get in there to achieve a goal (eg putting the only mine in there).. if there is an alternative site for anything you could do within the team-play areas elesewhere then non-team-players do not loose out
i also believe it feasable within the confines of rpg to have a double switched door in a dungeon
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Definitely no. If people want to solo, let them do. It\'s just harder to fight monster alone than in team play
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hmm...
in rl: you are a guy that prefers to go solo, however let\'s say there are doors with dual lock, which can be opened only if you do it with someone: you have a choice: to ask someone for help, or just forget about it and go away.
in rp: you are a guy that prefers to go solo, however let\'s say there are doors with dual lock, which can be opened only if you do it with someone: you have a choice: to ask someone for help, or just forget about it and go away.
conclusion: this part is realistic and good for roleplay... I see nothing bad with it...
maybe it encourages to team up even if someone doesn\'t want to... but so what? real life does same
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I see plenty wrong. Some people REALLY prefer to play alone. its too hard to go ask people for help. that could take hours sometimes. Sometimes you cant just walk away. Maybe there is a unique item in there. or something in there that you can only find 300 miles away if you dont get it in that area. That person could just go in there alone, but he cant because of a restriction for parties. I really dont like it at all.
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so what? sometimes you need to ask someone for help. That\'s life, can be cruel sometimes, get used to it.
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yes... and im playing a game to excape life. therefore i dont want to be stuck because of a stupid lock. Im playing a game for fun. not to be restricted by the same cruel fate life deals me...
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Stop whining. It is normal that it\'s easier to achieve some things while in team. from roleplaying game I expect some realism, and it is realistic that you might lose something if you won\'t team up with others.
For Talad\'s sake! what\'s wrong with doors with dual locks? Is it bad for roleplay or something?
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no its bad for PLAYING. it really isnt fun at all to have to break RP and team up with someone.
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in rl: you are a guy that prefers to go solo, however let\'s say there are doors with dual lock, which can be opened only if you do it with someone: you have a choice: to ask someone for help, or just forget about it and go away.
in rp: you are a guy that prefers to go solo, however let\'s say there are doors with dual lock, which can be opened only if you do it with someone: you have a choice: to ask someone for help, or just forget about it and go away.
it\'s same in rl and rp so in what way is it breaking roleplay?
edit: oh, I\'ll add one more idea: the old thief & warrior team for joining skills like \"sense trap\" and bashing monsters - this would go nice when you make dungons full of monsters and strong traps[/color]
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if your rp character is someone who doesnt ever ask help from any one EVER. a lone wolf who doesnt like talk with anyone. OR someone who has 1 partner they like doing things with. Those kinds of things. IF there is a dual lock thing, a crafty thief loner guy should be able to rig up pulleys and do it by himself. There shouldnt be a reason to tell someone they cant go in a room without havin a partner.
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if you really want to roleplay then you won\'t team up and forget about the doors. Isn\'t it simple? Unless you don\'t really roleplay and go solo just for gaining experience and find items, aka power-level
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Originally posted by Draklar
so no mages that specialize in all 6 ways? bad idea...
Hmm? Could you specialise in all 6 ways? I mean there must be some kind of limit on ability. Just pondering....
I like the idea of some things requiring teaming up, I have to say. Whemy, it\'s not like every single quest ever will have to \"force\" you to team up - but then I suppose if there was something of real value in a multiplayer quest then that would be bias. The only thing that confuses me is why would someone would want to play a massively multiplyer online game not to multiplayer? Surely that is the whole point. Why not just play an offline RPG game, there are plenty about. I just find that strange, then again, every person is different...
I just don\'t think refusing to implement something becasue of an apparent minority is a good thing, or there would be nothing to do - everyone has litle things they hate.
EDIT: damn you guys type fast! :D
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well if there is something behind that door you need for a quest or important item you need for something else, they you have to get behind that door. however breakin rp is just not fun to get that item.
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how many times do I have to repeat?
It isn\'t breaking roleplaying. It is you who do it, by teaming up just to finish quest. No one forces you to finish it, just your overgrown ambition, therefore it is your own fault about ruining roleplay, not game.
Whemy, seriously, quit whining. Those doors aren\'t bad for roleplay, something like that can be found it real life so it\'s quite realistic.
edit: heh... exactly
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dude drak, STFU seriously. Im not whining. My point is if i have a character and i need an item, i shouldnt have to break rp just to get a dang item. this is a roleplaying game and there should be alternative ways to get the item or get behind those doors.
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There is another way, you just need to have a home network or something and you play 2 characters at the same time (I don\'t think you can run 2 clients at the same time on one comp).
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Originally posted by Psycon
(I don\'t think you can run 2 clients at the same time on one comp).
Draklar was able to run what, 7 clients at the same time?
One of the most saddening things truly is multicharactering (at the same time).
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whemyfield i understand your points but i did state above that these doors werent intended (in my concept of them at least) to block the way to a quest item... rather as an obstacle in a dungeon/whatever.. i envision the things found behind the door would be much the same as any other dungeon, maybe organised with teamplaying in mind
eg
behind dual-lock door you will find puzzles that envolve thief-warrior or mage-warrior combinations or combinations of race abilities....
basically it would provide an area where teamplay could be used to its fullest potential whereas those who wish to solo will have alternative areas in which to do so with the same end benefits
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The example that was given with the doors it fine. There are many times in RL and in many other video games. That you need to have buddies.. or hirelings along to accomplish a mission.
Take the Real Life U.S.ARMY for instance. They have many different missions each day. Some call for Loners and some call for very large teams to do them correctly.
All Drak is saying is that if your \"loner\" character has a choice of what he or she will do that day.. Just RP it and choose the mission that will let you RP correctly. If there is an item or a goal that you need to get to that requires more people to do it... well just buckle down join a team (grumble alot in RP so people know that you hate to do it.) and get it done.
This was not meant to sound mean or offensive, just striaght to the point.
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I agree with Whemy to an extent. I hate most people and do not trust them with solid evidence why. I am a loner and only befriend one or two people, like I usually do. That means I rarely see anyone on my buddy list and most likely cant get behind a barrier built to require more than one person to open, and that would not be good for me. (besides, if there is a massive power item behind the barrier, who is going to keep it?)
On the other hand, this is a MMORPG. If you didnt want to play with other people at all in seclusion, play some of those really good 1 player rpgs (Like Gothic). I think the purpose for MMOG\'s is for teamwork and interaction with others. I\'ll still play as my silent and secluded self, but I will lurk quietly behind an adventuring party if on a quest.
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allow me to re-iterate what i have said previously
dual-lock doors should not be used to block a route to an otherwise unobtainable item, nor to make an item harder to acquire by means of soloing
rather their intended use is to section off an area in which the environment is customised to team-play, in such an environment you may find that the loot is arranged so that it is easily divided between the 2 or more parties..whatever.. basically it allows you to customise events on the basis that 2 or more people will be fighting together allowing more variety in combat challenges etc without risk of these customisation being exploited by someone soloing or having to be limted by that eventuality
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*sigh* whatever, but i still think they shouldnt exist at all. I like the idea that 1 person can do what any number of people can do.
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Originally posted by whemyfield
*sigh* whatever, but i still think they shouldnt exist at all. I like the idea that 1 person can do what any number of people can do.
But that\'s the problem- compare a warrior and a mage paring up to a sigle warrior/mage- sure the one guy could do everything the other two can, but he\'s much weaker at each of them. So why does he deserve as much loot as two players who togther could whomp him? If you can get thru a duenguen made for several weak charactors with a strong solo charactor you don\'t need to split the loot afterall.
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I dont like the doors idea either but I can see a way around it, can you say \"gaint ball of fire.\"
Destroy the door
Nuf said
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I agree with whemmy cause i\'m kind of a loner to.
it IS sometimes difficult to find someone that want\'s to help you. they\'re prob already in a party and are busy with their own party members. you have to hope for someone that notices you and wants to help you. admit that is not really many times that would happen if your somewhere very far, monbsters are difficult,... they just take care for themselves but where I would like to see the double lock door is in guild halls.
can you see yourself stepping to a guild hall climbing the stairs. 2 guards notice you and jump up. they ask you to indetify yourself then they open the door by pushing each their lock at the same time.......
hmmmm, would like it that way.
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The key to making fun puzzles is creating multiple solutions. Make it possible to use a group or solo it yourself - even if that requires a little more ~creativity~ :D
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Agreed Snowwolf...If they absolutely must put something like that in there, they could at least make a second option. Maybe it could just be a short cut. It shouldn\'t completely block a person out, just delay them. I want to play a loner who would basically only interact economically, and I do not want to be limited on the areas I can explore...as Whemyfield said, games are made to be fun...you have to find a balance between realism and fun...to tell the truth...how many times have you run into a door you couldn\'t open by yourself? ...so ya....anywho...how about no unless you can get in other ways...
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never rules out that possibility..
the point i tried to make above tho was that in my experience as a Games Master on a popular MMORPG puzzle/dungeon layout choices can be severley limted when all play-types are considered and there may be areas that would be fun for people playing as a team that couldnt be effectively/unexploitably implemented in an area where solo players have access
as an additional thought here...how about some kind of system that works the other way as well.. ie a door that deliberately discourages team play (might be that when u enter it it plops u down somewhere random inside the dungeon so that any teams entering are scattered)
in my experience the key is balance, you can pretty much do anything you like as long as it doesnt provide an advantage (overall - in the context of the whole game) to any particular playstyle
when you think about it this wouldnt be much different from having races that can swim underwater and those that cant, or races that can flay and those that cant... each provides access to an area that only some players have and the players that lack that access have something else beneficial to balance it
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True . I wanted to explain further what I had meant.
I am, all for players whether solo or groups having access to all areas.
Start side rant (Please excuse this if i have missunderstood the above post. But I think it is not about the doors anymore, rather than some people saying that anymission should be able to be done solo.)
Now maybe if I was playing Diablo LOD or Guantlet I could see this, however this is a MMORPG not Single online game.> end side rant.
8)
but yes.. I DO think that all people should be allowed a chance to travel where they want and attempt what they want to try.
Work hard and play harder.
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I don\'t mind team work stuff. I am not sure Wemmy knows what the second M in MMORPG stands for.
Having said that... let me tell you that doors that require two people to opperate seems complicated. Doors dont work at all now. I would just like to see One working door. And dule lock doors would encourage multiple accounts far more than they would teamwork. I am sure the Wemmys of the world would just get second acount. All serious power gamers have at least two acounts!
One more thing... finding someone to \"play\" with is not hard at all. Some simple rules to follow.
1. Type! Please say something every now and then!
2. Need before greed looting. This means the warrior should get the platemail, not the mage.
3. Use your best language. Acronmys like STFU only lets everyone know that you are mentally 12 years old.
4. Make an atempt at learning the game dynamics. Bring something to the table, and you will be more popular.
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I agree with most of what you have said. The only rule that I dont agree on is the NBG.
I have done that in other .. games.. cough EQ and as a wiz lvl 65 got raped on loot constantly. In most games there is just not enought loot to even it out with mages and warriror types. but that is gonna be up the the parties to decide I guess.
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Actually finding someone to talk to you is hard. The first time I logged in I tried to start conversations with five different people and they all ignored me.
Also everyone seems to be missing a key feature. A PARTY system. You\'ve all hinted at it but missed it.
Players should be allowed to team up and share experience. It would help low-level characters get stronger (albeit cheaply) by following around a high level character who kills high level monster.
The exp would of course be divided evenly.
Also, the two person locks thing. Not a good idea. It bugs me when I can\'t get through a door. I suggest only adding them in if there\'s a break door option. I prefer to work alone simply because I believe that if I ask for help to complete a quest it means I\'m not strong enough to do it and won\'t be gaining the necessary exp to get stronger that I would have meaning that from every quest after that I would have to ask for help again.
I do however help people.
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When I was certain lvl\'s in EQ, I would litrerally spend hours LFG (looking for group) with no luck. I don\'t want to be held back in a dungeon because I run into a door I need a group to open. The best way to encourage teamplay is to make the monsters hard to solo. Or just have experience bonuses to groups. I agree with Whemy on this one, and I am more of a socializer. I just see problems, I mean, who really wants to go out of their way to help someone else through an obstacle in a game? If you say there are plenty of people like that, you have obviously not played a MMORPG before.