PlaneShift

Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Deddarus on February 13, 2004, 11:30:07 pm

Title: [vote] Turn-based Vs Real-time combat
Post by: Deddarus on February 13, 2004, 11:30:07 pm: okay ppl..it isnt clear (to me at least) which method the Devs are planning to implement so..before they do.. i thought it might be nice to have a post to voice yer preferences

pls reply with either TB or RT .... dont let this post become a disscussion (as there are many posts discussing this but not really voicing prefernces)
Title:
Post by: Deddarus on February 13, 2004, 11:30:42 pm: RT
Title:
Post by: druke on February 13, 2004, 11:31:52 pm: RT
Title:
Post by: Axsyrus on February 13, 2004, 11:33:12 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Deddarus
okay ppl..it isnt clear (to me at least) which method the Devs are planning to implement so..before they do.. i thought it might be nice to have a post to voice yer preferences

pls reply with either TB or RT .... dont let this post become a disscussion (as there are many posts discussing this but not really voicing prefernces)

ok, now I assume you know Crystal Blue contains a battle system, right?

and you also now that Crystal Blue will be released in about a month, Right?

so now you either think that the devs have no idea what to implement one month for the release, you didn\'t read up on anything at all, or you\'re just plain stupid.. vote?
Title:
Post by: Grakrim on February 13, 2004, 11:34:23 pm: At the risk of being the odd-man out:
TB.
(This really should be in Hydlaa, though; as its about our personal preferance as opposed to what we think will be in PS, or maybe I misunderstood?)
Title:
Post by: Phinehas on February 13, 2004, 11:35:39 pm: Wut he said Axsyrus said.
Title:
Post by: Kixie on February 13, 2004, 11:36:49 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Axsyrus

and you also now that Crystal Blue will be released in about a month, Right?

haha yeah like what they said 3 months ago right?

anyways Im not going to vote because it is just a useless way to post an answer without giving why you think that. But i have read the rules and they are a bit on the sketchy side. IT never really tells you if its turnbased or real time at all. Kinda wierd how they were able to be so detailed but yet so indescisive in it.
Title:
Post by: druke on February 13, 2004, 11:40:00 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Deddarus
i thought it might be nice to have a post to voice yer preferences

plus not everyone know that the combats finsihed, thats not really on the forums

just post your dang opinion and quit nagging on people
Title:
Post by: Jehoel on February 13, 2004, 11:44:20 pm: RT but I\'d have to get a better computer.
Title:
Post by: Kiva on February 13, 2004, 11:49:06 pm: To quote the man who wrote the battle system (which is finished, thank you)...

[Gronomist] So how\'s it gonna work?
[@Vengeance] Push a button. Wait to see if you win or die.
[@Vengeance] It is real-time but automated. It is not \'one keypress one hit\"
Title:
Post by: lynx_lupo on February 13, 2004, 11:52:01 pm: Bah, who needs combat?! Violence is not the answer. :P
Title:
Post by: druke on February 14, 2004, 12:03:47 am: i dint mean it wasn\'t just saying that its not total public knowledge
Title:
Post by: Syreal on February 14, 2004, 12:09:31 am: no offensive to dev\'s but. . . that battle system seems boring. . . o well, maby it will be better than it sounds.
Title:
Post by: Erthel on February 14, 2004, 02:03:13 am: Do you know any better to play between 900+ players connected to a server on the net? would be nice to know ;)
Title:
Post by: Deddarus on February 14, 2004, 02:09:59 am: in reply to whatshisface (sorry its 1am i cant be arsed to scroll up to read yer name m8)

1. i dont believe the devs have left out the battle system until 1 month b4 release

2. i did read the info

3. im not an idiot (i do have a degree u know.. in computer game development no less!)

the point of this post is that in my previous experience (as a GM/Developer of a popular MMORPG and as a proffesional games tester for the biggest pc, handheld & next-gen console games company in the world) anything added to a game will be recieved with mixed oppinions and many ppl will call for it to be changed... thus i am providing a place for peoples oppinions to be heard on the matter before it is released (especially as a lot of complaints stem from teething troubles on initial release)... yes it has come a bit late (due to me discovering PS 2 days ago) but for the purpose of mere damage limitation it is better to make any desireable changes before release..... in summary: better late than too late
Title:
Post by: Dameon on February 14, 2004, 02:11:31 am: RT
Title:
Post by: Moogie on February 14, 2004, 02:15:40 am: And you think you\'re the first person to ever make a thread about this, hmm? :)

Of course, things like this were discussed before the first playable tech demo of the 3D version of PS was even developed.
Title:
Post by: Cyrandir on February 14, 2004, 02:16:54 am: RT all the way

EDIT: for typo... stupid me
Title:
Post by: Deddarus on February 14, 2004, 02:21:08 am: my bad mogura..as i said im new here....didnt see any posts (admitedly i didnt use the search and prolly should have.. again my bad).... anyways, doesnt hurt to get an update... wouldnt u say

/me hangs head in shame + makes mental note not to post things that he feels might be helpfull whilst failing to realise that in all likelihood they ..well..arent :)
Title:
Post by: Monketh on February 14, 2004, 02:36:51 am: RT, given a lag elimination.
Title:
Post by: footpunker60 on February 14, 2004, 03:00:38 am: RT
Title:
Post by: Levski on February 14, 2004, 04:21:37 am: RT

but what Venge said has me interested... lag is something that i think will always be here, so it would be unfair if someone is lagging along, and here comes someone and kills them because they can\'t react fast enough. I wonder, will there be an automatic defense for people that are lagging or just plain had to do something really quick?
Title:
Post by: Syzerian on February 14, 2004, 04:35:24 am: most realtime combat rpgs online end up being pretty much turn based anyways since its impossible to dodge so it just whoever can click their mouse bottun the fastest
wack, get wacked, wack, get wacked, wack, get wacked, wack yay i win :P

RT is good if you can dodge and there is minimal lag
but PS will probably end up like most other mmorpgs combat systems where you tell your character to attack and he just keeps on automatically attacking

*hopes for severance combat*
Title:
Post by: Yann on February 14, 2004, 11:06:04 am: RT. There is no room for Turn Based combat in Planeshift.
Title:
Post by: Xordan on February 14, 2004, 02:25:04 pm: A mix of them both. I think a Final Fantasy type system would be good.... wait, click, wait, click, wait. I quite enjoy that. But it\'d have to be modified a bit...

but as it\'s already done... we\'ll just have to wait and see. :D
Title:
Post by: Anatheus on February 14, 2004, 04:12:28 pm: Real Time, absolutely. It\'s a lot better than turn based combat, because with real time, you can, for example, run away from your enemy, hide behind a corner, drink a healing potion and attack again. Plus many other great things that turn based combat doesn\'t include. I think.

So I would like to see real time combat in this game. But if it\'s already been decided to make combat turn based, then I guess I just have to live with that.
Title:
Post by: Watcher on February 14, 2004, 05:46:23 pm: Real time because I can drink my beer and hit some one while saying \"you got pwned by a drunk\"
Title:
Post by: elscouta on February 14, 2004, 08:16:49 pm: i\'m more for a turn-based one.

Seems i\'m not in the majority though ;(
Title:
Post by: Half_Pint on February 14, 2004, 09:53:47 pm: I\'d like RT, as long as it didn\'t lag too much. 8)
Title:
Post by: Kuiper7986 on February 14, 2004, 09:58:26 pm: Turn based for me.
Title:
Post by: Kiern on February 14, 2004, 10:02:14 pm: Turn based is horrible, no contest that RT beats it...but then there is the lag stuff...maybe a mix of both or something like, if you host a tournament you can choose real time but otherwise it will just be turn-based for the people who lag a lot...although if you really lag that much, I doubt you will play the game much...but then again, what do I know.
Title:
Post by: Boldstorm on February 14, 2004, 10:02:47 pm: Turn Based
Title:
Post by: shangralah on February 15, 2004, 03:09:51 am: RT of course ..... only turn based game i ever liked were fallout 1 and 2 ....... i still play them when im bored :D
Title:
Post by: Kixie on February 15, 2004, 03:23:06 am: well wait a sec here... we cant just say turn based or real time because there are lots of complications. how the system is described is a real time turn based system. Bassically like an advanced r00nscape from what is being described. Hitting in a turn based fashon but being able to flee and make actions quickly. also the stances seem VERY familiar....
Title:
Post by: Winterheaven on February 15, 2004, 04:12:40 am: I am agree with Axsyrus and Mogura - it would be a bad preparation and design for such a big game, if the devs make this decision at such a late moment.

But anyway, the thread is up, and there are not few people, who come up with different opinions. Of course, I DO NOT KNOW THE RIGHT SOLUTION. But i am interested in the way, player like to fight. So i will bring in some questions/statements and everybody is free to talk about and hopefully correct me, where i am wrong.

1) Is true turnbased fighting really an option for a multiplayer rpg? That means, that every player involved in the same fight have to wait, until all other made their decisions. When your party sorcerer thinks 30 minutes about the question, if he should heal you or touch the undead opponent, and you wait on your monitor with a cup of coffee... can this be an option?

And that brings me to the real question:

2) Should there be a fixed combat round time or only a time pause for striking the weapon? So the question is, should i wait 6 second, until i am again on my way - like the introducer of this concept \"final fantasy 2\" till the newest one \"KotoR\". Or should it be like in Morrowind or Arx Fatalis - after my strike I am ready for the next one.

And one last thing to mentioned:

3) Has the fight to be more tactical and therefore dependent on your IG skills or should your personal reaction and keyboard+mouse skill come into play? To make this statement clearer: Should a simple click on the opponent start the complete fighting animation - like NWN for example? Or should it be like the Ultima Underworlds, where you can control the strength of the damage with the time pressing down the mouse button and the direction of the sword stroke is dependent of the direction of the screen mouse movement?

br, Winterheaven.

p.s. During writing this article i saw that whemyfield already come up with my doubts about this TB question... hopefully nobody will be disgruntled about this double post. ;)
Title:
Post by: Kixie on February 15, 2004, 04:27:29 am: *sigh* :rolleyes:

Move along...
Title:
Post by: Wedge on February 15, 2004, 07:00:31 am: Turn based strategy kicks realtime strategy arse... wait what was this about?
Title:
Post by: Grakrim on February 15, 2004, 07:16:23 am: Quote
Originally posted by Wedge
wait what was this about?

I don\'t think its about anything in particular; it just seems Deddarus was sucessfully able to project a tiny bit of Hydlaa Plaza into the General Discussion forum without too many people noticing. Quite an achievement; many have tried, few have succeeded

As for you people asking if its truly possible to implement turn-based in a MMORPG? I think it certainly would be possible via some sort of turn time caps, possibly 10 or 30 seconds.
And, as per usual, Wedge is right; Turn based strategy does kick realtime strategy arse. Disgaea proves that for all to see ;)
Title:
Post by: Dalec on February 15, 2004, 08:45:51 am: Turn-Based is fine with me. I don\'t see a need to implement real time, as I dont think it really add\'s much to the playability in a MMORPG. Besides lag issues and such, I would fear that a real-time combat system would get far too unbalanced. Not to mention it would cater to a lot of immature kids who are drawn to RT just because it is flashier and looks cooler. There is also the fear of the game becoming a hack n\' slash.

I guess I am just looking for a good RPG online, not an action game :/
Title:
Post by: Fanomatic2000 on February 15, 2004, 09:54:07 am: Umm, Heroes of might & magic vs. Neverwinter nights?
I don\'t think that Turn-based action works very well in a MMORPG. The battles would just be slow and boring and it removes a lot of freedom from the game.

RT for me.
Title:
Post by: Kiern on February 15, 2004, 03:56:40 pm: A couple of years ago I was sent the disc to test Rubies of Eventide, it had turn based combat (I\'m not sure if it does now) and it was by far the most boring thing I\'ve done in a game much less a MMORPG, if Planeshift were to have it, there has to be something to make it more appealing...at least I would hope. :D
Title: SURE IS 'RT'
Post by: Sunken on February 15, 2004, 04:26:50 pm: RT

because it\'s so bizzare se a turn based battle in a MMORPG, try to imaginate, you \'watching\' a turn based :P

RT please :))
Title:
Post by: Saphire on February 16, 2004, 12:10:43 am: Real Time.

I despise trying to fight a turn based game in a RPG. It\'s just... Borring.

turn based like:
My turn; Attack - Fireball
Damaged [creature] 12 HP
Enemy defeated w/ animation of it burning into a pile of ash

Real time like:
I run around circle-strafing the [creature] while i concentrate on preparing a fireball spell. I duck behind a tree and the [creature\'s weapon] gets stuck in the bark. I let loose the ball of fire and scorch him a good one.

Which one would you want to choose?
Title:
Post by: Natrina on February 16, 2004, 12:42:57 am: Yeah, RT!
Title:
Post by: Phinehas on February 16, 2004, 02:01:32 am: Definitely RT, but we do need to be realistic, however I am SICK of turn-based! It takes no skill, just time! In some ways, that\'s nice for certain people, \'cause they\'re not well-coordinated or don\'t play for the combat, but for heavy gamers, the turn-based is totally boring and frustrating. What would be cool is to be able to choose, but that\'s asking a little much.
Title:
Post by: Joukahainen on February 16, 2004, 03:05:52 am: I must say realtime
Title:
Post by: Phinehas on February 16, 2004, 03:13:23 am: You people should check this (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=7833&boardid=11&sid=228e0c85c2ad2a789955ca63e98d425a&page=1#13) out, now those are combat systems like I wanna use.
Title:
Post by: Saphire on February 16, 2004, 03:20:50 am: Games like XCOM and some RTSs and RPGs require turn-based combat, because real-time would be too hectic or simply wasn\'t a option.

XCOM is something of a RTS game about tactics, and turn based makes that part of it shine - if it was RTS it would be just as good, though there are some monsters that can move for VERY long periods of time and are VERY fast, so if there was no turn-based system, these enemies would over-whelm you quickly.

Now imagine XCOM as a MMOG. Where there\'s a timer and if they dont choose a action their round ends, and their enemy\'s begins. because 1 \"unit\" in XCOM can\'t occupy another tile with another unit on it, all it would take would be 2 players to be AFK in the exit from the dropship to stagnate gameplay. Or when a player is AFK, and is the last one alive... or when you\'ve run out of ammo...

Turn based works for some games, but not for MMO ones.