PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: snow_RAveN on February 16, 2004, 09:59:25 am
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yeah we all love ps even though theres other mmos out there but ive gave ps some thinking and decided that its going down the same path as the rest of the lot ever sence acrig ( or was it venge ? ) said that they were not gonna solve the \"Playground\" plorblem, even though ps is gonna be a rpg game
1st let me explaine the \"playground\" its a place where there are swings slides monkey bars ... ect ect... durring reccess the kids come out and play there always be some fighting some flamein kids getting bullied kids not shareing the rides, trading lunches, then some kids gets hurt and complaines and teacher comes and starts punishing the kids, now thats the way most mmos are built out now.
the worlds largest online community ? sorry devs but you guys need your heads exaimed so far i dont recall a single mmo game that was sold over 10 million coppies and has that many subcribers and dont tell me bout neopets ... fastest growing online community BAH ... they should check once in a while the number of people who have created doubble or more accounts. yes PS is free but what about all the other korean games that are crurrently in beta ? arnt they free ? so how come they aren\'t makein any noise about them having over god knows how many subcirbers ? ( yes they korean and dont think they dont know english)
so now whats Gonna Set This MMO aside form the others ? is the games main economey form bashing of monsters ? or through jobs ?
now this gets more intresting immagine ( smokey dream effect ) there are a few clases lawyers , doctors , enginers , mechnics, road, social workers , waiters ... ect ect so if we get to choose which job we want you\'ll get a world full of lawyers and other high paying jobs cause We all wanna get rich quick ( dont lie bet you guys would love to find a get rich quick plan )
well folks thats enough rant power i got for today hope u guys think bout this
...need ... recharge ....
*head slams in to key board as his battery goes dead *
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Oh come off of it snow raven. dont be a pecimist. this game will be great, no mattter what they do with it. if this is a small community, Great nice small community to play a fun game with. Big community?, Whatever lots of noobs and flamers but it will feel like a professional game, so awesome.
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exactly... who cares if we dont become the worlds biggest and most famous community... if we have a substantial playerbase who can play in the style that they choose within a game environment tailored to their needs which they can make suggestions and provide feedback on.. then.. whats the problem
the good thing about PS unlike a commercial game is that we have a permanent Dev team... the game will be perpetually evolving... in other words if PS was to go downhill the devs, with guidance from the players, could bring it back up again
as long as we have fun.. who cares
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I would rather have there be a small community with 200-250 players that i know well... that a hellhole with 10-15 thousand players and about half bieng annoying noobs...
And Deddarus your right... as long as PS is an open source... generations of deves will be able to work on it.. ading what the players want at the time... this will make it much better that commercial MMO\'s that make a game, host a server, and let it live untill they stop making much money of it..... than it dies...
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Originally posted by snow_RAveN
yes PS is free but what about all the other korean games that are crurrently in beta ? arnt they free ? so how come they aren\'t makein any noise about them having over god knows how many subcirbers ?
No, you\'re wrong, those games aren\'t free, they will be P2P later and they are not open source like PS is..
so what makes PS different? It\'s open source, anyone who wants to can join the dev team or just contribute to the code whenever they want. also, it will be free FOREVER, not just during the beta test.. isn\'t this different enough you think?
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Yeah, Axsyrus is right, an open beta is not a free game. I don\'t play them because I know I will eventually have to pay if I want to continue playing.
In this interview : http://www.warcry.com/scripts/news/view_news.phtml?site=15&id=8889 , Luca explains why it makes a difference if the game is free. the main thing is not that you don\'t have to pay (which will attract more players), but the fact that since you don\'t have to pay, you can enjoy the game more and take your time, because you can play it forever, or even drop it for some time and come back to it later.
besides, the fact that PS is opensource means it will continue to evolve and improve over years, so if everything goes right, you should still be able to play PS in 10 years without getting bored or feel like you\'re playing an old game o_O
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What makes PS different than other MMORPG\'s? Well the easy answer is, it looks to be at least as good as most of them out there now, and IT\'S FREE! What more could you really ask? Dedicated Dev\'s willing to do this WITHOUT profit! That must mean they care more about making a good game then money in their pocket\'s, unless they are really dumb! :p Anyway, considering it\'s free means more then you don\'t have to pay, it means that the people who are making it are making it because they love gaming-something every dev claims but few have proof except these guys!
Not to mention the setting. Reading through the story is very interesting, and I think the whole underground setting could be very cool.
Now here is my question to you, why *don\'t* you think this game will be different from other MMORPG\'s? in fact, what 2 MMORPG\'s are really the same?
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Its funny how the fan b0yz come out and slam posters the moment some one asks some valid and decent questions about the game in a concerned/inquireing/negative way.
i think ill back this guy up.
this will make it much better that commercial MMO\'s that make a game, host a server, and let it live untill they stop making much money of it
the good thing about PS unlike a commercial game is that we have a permanent Dev team... the game will be perpetually evolving... in other words if PS was to go downhill the devs, with guidance from the players, could bring it back up again
You actualy played a commercial mmorpg?... All have inhouse dedicated dev teams, Devs do more than just make it, set it up and stand back. people in here tout how it will have ever expanding, constant changes and fix\'s due to the non paided dedicated Devs running it. Well ummm ever heard of patchs?... and expansion packs?, granted you have to buy those (not patchs), but dedicated devs and evolveing content is not a PS exclusive, and considering the Paid devs for comercail companys have a real financial insentive to continue to work on a product rather than just the love for it (often most paid devs have more love for there projects than financial interest, wouldnt you after years of working on it?, but an actual income is a big bonus, this is the real world after all, love will not feed ya family).
If a MMorpg of this type was to go downhill and falter, most likely it would be either to the lose of interest by the devs or due to money problems (server/bandwidth rental), and no fan or player guidance would revive it, unless they had the $$$ or the knowhow to take the wheel. Not to mention while the engine is opensource, the content is not... youd have to negotiate getting the rights to it all, Granted being a non profit team it would probably be not that hard to do so, although niggles might arise.
besides, the fact that PS is opensource means it will continue to evolve and improve over years, so if everything goes right, you should still be able to play PS in 10 years without getting bored or feel like you\'re playing an old game o_O
Now many seem to get something wrong here, while PS is opensource they forget this player base made content and outside developed content will very likely NOT appear in the \"offical\" PS world, unless you had it to the dev teams quality and likeing, and where willing to waver your rights to it once its in the game. What it means is some one can download the server/client apps and host there own PS world, useing there added content theyve developed since the code for the whole project is opensource and avaliable to the public. Result is fragmentation of the community and watering down. The PS dev team is unlikely to take every scriptchange or monster model people send in just because its \"opensource\" and people think this means its a community project. Im sure that if your contributions where that good theyd try to recruit you into the dev team.
Im possibly soon (its almost a yes from the publisher according to my boss) going to actualy do 3d work and textureing for a commercial game project along with the rest of my mod team for a rather well known games publisher. Now i had love for the medium before hand, but to me 10 years of doing content work with out any form of pay in my spare time is frightening, and a rather stupid situation. I had motivation and get go before, but with the prospect of makeing an actual liveing from this, my motivation is alot more higher. Basicly im saying that a free project like this which is takeing an eon to complete, with a strictly unpaid volunteer dev team doing this work in there spare time around there day jobs, the life span after completeion (if it gets completed) of PS will not be 10 years (then again its been in the makeing that long so far :P ). I could be wrong and there have been examples of success stories, but there exceptions to the rule.
but the fact that since you don\'t have to pay, you can enjoy the game more and take your time, because you can play it forever, or even drop it for some time and come back to it later.
To me Paytoplay means a certain level of quality and commitment by the developers, you give them the money and they are therefore bound to give you a good experiance after all you pay there wages. And as far as I know from experiance you can drop paying mmorpgs and take a break and return later, heck ive done it enough in EQ myself. once you pay your months fee your not eternaly bound to there bank book and game for life.
Now here is my question to you, why *don\'t* you think this game will be different from other MMORPG\'s? in fact, what 2 MMORPG\'s are really the same?
Actualy besides one or two games with interesting side systems (Horizons city rebuilding, dragon flight, DaoC\'s Realm Wars, EQ\'s AA and tribute/augment systems etc) ALL morpgs are the same, and besides the setting, ive seen little to say PS will be any differant in these respects, even WoW will be your typical MMorpg, albeit a very high quality one (im mostly interested in it due to its Visual Quality and style). MMorpgs work because they follow a core set of gameplay, the same as every other genre of entertainment. the onyl way to make a differant game is to break the mold entirely and create a MMorpg so differant from the competition its unrecognisable. The problem with that is it then no longer IS an mmorpg and cant be classed as one. The Mmorpg is now a real genre of gameing and its bounds set. Many games from all genres have tried to break from there bounds, and some have done so, or so they think, but when you get to the nitty gritty they are still there parents child no matter how hard they try not to be. All MMorpgs are the same... sad but unavoidable.
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thanks bigfoot
Delac go surf around for as many mmos as you can find you\'ll find that theres always \"Endless monster & player bashing\" which usually drives the main economy . people kill monsters, lvl up, buy better stuff, kill stuff, lvl up, buy better stuff .... so on so forth. yes so the setting may be different but the basic \"layout\" is always the same
(note Tale in the desert is a accecption )
Axsyrus
yes your right about that ... but even though its not free latter ... its still free now
ok so even if they dont want to waste their time monster bashing gets boreing
so form what i read i can guess that you guys think the BIG difference is its community so its gonna be lika doom ? with a community so involved in the game that their gonna make lots of mods , maps , even hacks ?
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bah, a friend of mine have been saying that Tibia is much better then Planeshift and it\'s just as free..
Later on I found out that he is paying lots of money just so he can acsess the servers (apperantly it\'s impossible to play the games during some hours if you play the game for free).
I hate deluxe versions of a free game.
Anyway Planeshift will be the game that doesn\'t look like every other MMORPG\'s out there.
(ok I admit I didn\'t read your whole post :rolleyes: )
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i have personally seen a freeserver where the main admin/dev has lost interest and the leadership has been passed down the staff, which were taken from the playerbase (in fact just before i left due to RL commitments i was offered it myself)... it can happen
additionally.. yes the dev team will of course reject poor quality code submissions... however they do seem to welcome player suggestions and we do have a number of talented people in the playerbase that could easily make worthy submissions (even if only small ones).... we arent all 12 year old kids who think drawing a button and making it say hello world in VB makes them a top-notch coder :P
but when it comes down to it...even if u r right and PS does turn out to be another clone... who cares... some ppl find it fun.. if u find u dont then dont play here... if the whole thing goes tits up..... ah well.. nvm.... im sure we will all find something else to amuse ourselves :P
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MMORPG\'s all have similar qualities, but I can\'t say any 2 of the major one\'s out right now are the same. I\'ve played a few, such as AC2, and EQ, the 2 most similar looking RPG\'s, but even those have many many differences. I really don\'t think any MMORPG is the same, but if you just consider a MMORPG monster bashing then I suppose you could say they were the same. However, it would be ignorant to say ANY MMORPG is just monster bashing, because even in EQ there is much more.
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I think more and more MMORPGs are starting to resemble each other, although I\'m not sure this is such a bad thing. Remember that almost all MUDs have near-identical interfaces (when you consider there\'s only a handful of popular MUD drivers), but they still have great distinction between each other in terms of content.
In many ways, EQ has become the template for the commercial MMORPG, as it was one of the first commerical successes.
Although I do agree with you, Dalec, the similarities are only skin-deep.
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That brings me to another point, there\'s really no good generic GMUD driver as there are for MUDs; which is disappointing, to say the least.
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Good question snow_RAveN.
Let\'s make PS better not just because it\'s free, but more because it\'s a community.
A community where grievers are not tolerated. A community where people want to escape and have some fun. A better community because nothing challenges the human better but other humans.
This is a experiment in internet living. The source that controls the game is open to all who can read it. It is a free world in that aspect.
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Originally posted by Dalec
MMORPG\'s all have similar qualities, but I can\'t say any 2 of the major one\'s out right now are the same. I\'ve played a few, such as AC2, and EQ, the 2 most similar looking RPG\'s, but even those have many many differences. I really don\'t think any MMORPG is the same, but if you just consider a MMORPG monster bashing then I suppose you could say they were the same. However, it would be ignorant to say ANY MMORPG is just monster bashing, because even in EQ there is much more.
Dalec did you fail human geography 101 ?????????
!!!! THink MAn tHinK !!!!
yes there might be other jobs such as Being A iron chef or a coal miner in any mmo but these are all centerd round \"endless monster bashing\" economy
miners mine and craft to sell to the People who bash monsters! food is used to regen health ! see the connection ?
also samoth is right ( iam not to sure bout the \"where grievers are not tolerated\" part )
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Let\'s make a few points here, shall we?
-There is intense hate for greivers, uncontrolled pk\'ers, etc..
-Content and ideas may be distributed freely
-The concept that you aren\'t rushed or feel obligated because you don\'t have to pay is true
-Roleplaying will be actively encouraged
-Opensource is a good thing
and finally...
-Pie is good. :]:P
Look, ps may turn out to be a clone of other mmorpg\'s, but it will always be free. ...and there will be no \"Gold Version\" :))
Also, if content is turned down it is because they don\'t want a sub-par game. ;)
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Exactly what I pointed out, Snow Raven. If all you consider a MMORPG to be is monster bashing, then I suppose you could say they were the same. However, like Gakrom pointed out, the similarities are only skin deep.
The community of players, style of gameyplay (even monster bashing has its variety) such as the DAoC realm system, ShadowBane PVP focus with player made towns, EQ system of...well, mostly just monster bashing :P, Asheron\'s Call evolving story, and SWG\'s ability to have no combat classes and actually get somewhere (although I have not tried the game out).
Anyone call say there is a wave a MMORPG clones, but no matter what you say play any two of them and give them time, you will find substantial differences. Hell, there were even differences in actual gameplay just on different EQ servers! The older, more crowded one\'s had more inflated ecnomies, while the new ones you might have to do more work to get that Uber Monster bashing sword.
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And on that note i would like to say that we should definally have some program manditory for entering the game to teach noobs how to play the game. If you\'ve played the game before and you know everything there should be a test that is easy to get to in th tutorial that takes 30 to 40 seconds. that would make PS different in a lot of ways. No flood of the newbies would be a GOOD thing.
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Whemyfield I have to disagree with you slightly on the grounds that we aren?t sure if multiple caricatures will be allowed and if they are not then you shouldn?t need to go thought the tutorial more than once.
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simple solution
1 account per player
multiple characters per account
Tutorial mandatory on 1st character of account
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what i meant was if you had just installed the program, that a tutorial that is skippable comes up, and then a quiz that is very quick.
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Wow im pleasently surprised, I think the PS community has finaly matured (well re-matured). No one flamed my post and others :P and gave good counter points to critiques(sp?).
Yes, on the surface most mmorpgs do give a differant experiance to there players, however what i was intimateing is that at their core system they are all monster killing, stat/exp/item gathering games (which is the standard checklist for the MMorpg genre). House building, RealmvRealm, AA\'s, guild systems and such are only secondary systems that are not intergril to the games mechanics, there just the diversion to extend your interest once you realise theres not much else to do besides the same old routine again and again like the last game.
Visualy i think (with the new rather talented 3d guy in the dev team) PS will be quite differant. But i still believe at its core it\'ll be the same old, same old like the rest of them.
Not realy related but just for the record MMorpgs ive played.
Long term: UO (2.5 years), EQ (3.5+ years 4 expansions), Daoc (1 year), NWN (1.7+ years, not realy an MMorpg but lots of persistant World servers available and played). 3 or 4 long gone MUD\'s
Short Term: Dark ages (free trial period), Elemental Saga (Public Beta), Tibia (10 minutes :P ), R$%escape (lag crashed on startup :P ).
Future MMorpgs to try: Atriarch (looks pretty differant if it ever comes to finnish), WoW (current contender for next big thing in MMorpg stakes, although will still be pretty same old, just alot better executed and presented)
MMorpgs ill never play: SWG (*grabes his garlic and holy water* EVIL EVIL thing!), Horizons (nothing like the old one, and now just a EQ clone with dragons and goth demons *sticks finger down his throat*)
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yeah this game will be forever changing
my brothers friend actually used to work on this game :D
you will probably end up getting someone like me on the ps team :P
when i make my unrealtournament levels i always say to myself \'this would look so much better if i put a pillar here, hmmm now i thing i should add an elevator going to a second floor, now i need a door, must add well, and then add sewers onto the well, then secret area onto the sewers, hmmm this needs a door\' lol it just keeps going :]
i just hope the storyline doesnt end up getting stuffed up by someone
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Here\'s what I think on the matter of what makes PS different than other MMORPG\'s
The dev\'s are kind of like starving architects. They\'ll take any job they can, and this they\'ll pour their hearts and souls into. They treat it like thier child and go above and beyond what\'s needed. Then when it\'s done, they can stand back and behold the work of their hands and be proud of themselves for it (What my friends call that warm fuzzy feeling inside). Also, commercial game developers will see their work and will want them on their teams. After this, the next wave of developers will begin work on this awesome project, and if they do well, they too will get recruited by the suits. This will result in a vast increase in game quality spanning across all genres.
This same theory applies to game mods. Take Counter-Strike for example. Pretty much their entire team has been snatched up by one company or another, and that\'s not the only mod out there that goes through this.
Thnx for your time ^_^
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My reasons for playing P.S.:
1 Free: and not the lame kind of ?subscribers get faster access.? Free.
2 Community: the real kind where a real person leads the guild. You can find your friends when they are on and have a beer, or hunt or continue your previous entrepreneurial act.
3 Time: The ONLY reason I don?t play ?pay-to-play? games is that I travel?Lots! And I don?t like paying $20, $15 or even $1 for a character that I may or may not get to touch for months at a time.
There is more stuff out there, other reasons for people, but those are mine. Those are what I think makes it different. I had not seen a free game that had any kind of community until I found this one. I?ve made real friends on it.
I am not the adventurer type. I played Pen and Paper for years and I always had a profession that I could do if I decided. But you have to remember that yea monster bashing ?or if there are no monsters (novel concept)- war will drive the world. We come from that kind of place. Greed and War drive the world, no matter what the idealists think. And as Tolkien said we cannot make a compleetly alien world. We would risk losing all ability to become part of it.
When I sit back and think about it the real difference (*kneels and prays that it is so.) will be diversity of actions. If it ends up being a monster bashing PvP fest I?ll be gone. But if, as we all hope, it has real ?evolving- content and remains as close knit as it is now, then my friends (or enemies as you chose) then it will be what the Devs have touted and we ?I hope WE- have all been waiting for.
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The reason why I just started playing PS and making some meshes is because the game might become very huge one day.
I have played quite some games and some muds in the past 5 years I am on the internet, but the only thing that makes a game boring is repetitive gameplay! IMO
I will give an example:
Just recently I played a free MMORPG with a gold version. Not a problem at all when you are a newbie. The fun thing about it is that you don\'t have to kill to get rich etc. You could also mine or collect herbs etc... But it gets so boring! Walk to the mine. Give a few commands to mine ore. Walk to a smelter. Walk to a smithy. Make some weapons. Sell the weapons. Go to the ore mine... And so on.
Conclusion: The PS developers should do everything they can to avoid repetitive gameplay. And yes, a good storyline helps, but it should keep evloving during the game.
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Whether PlaneShift will be a \"different game\" or not is a responsibility that goes beyond the power of the Devs to create a neat combat system, an enthralling world and an attractive context. When we say \"different\" we of course imply a game that transcends the limits of being \"just another MMORPG\" and becomes a higher standard of the gaming industry.
However, it is not entirely up to the ones in charge, the developer team, but also up to the players. It is the player base the ones who, with their actions and behaviour, drive the game to monotony, or success, or utter failure. PlaneShift, as any other massive multiplayer game, will be shaped and molded by the community.
It has been said that one of the biggest focus on PlaneShift is to make the game as cooperative as it is competitive. Competition is nice, if not in excess. But I have seen many MMORPGs were the only tangible goal is to be the one with the highest level around. Now, there you have an example of a shallow and unimaginative perspective.
On the other hand, if developers, GMs and players alike encourage cooperative interactions, including but not limited to hunting parties, partnerships, associations (licit or illicit, you name it!), make good use of a job system, tell a story by playing their characters, and bring the world to a true virtual life, then you have a dynamic, ever-changing and entertaining game.
It is a mistake, from where I see it, to sit back, rest your chin on your fists and ask, \"Okay, what are the Devs going to do to entertain us?\". It does not work that way. In a single-player, offline game it IS the case. But not in one of this nature.
In here, you have a community of not dozens, but hundreds of players! The entertainment value is perceived by having fun interactions with the other playable characters.
A game with a choppy and clumsily put together system can still be a hoot to play if the players make the effort of finding the aspects that keep you glued to the screen for hours to no end.
- Golbez