PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => PvP,PK and Thieving => Topic started by: Deddarus on February 16, 2004, 09:41:55 pm
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forgive me if this has been stated before but..
i used to work as a senior gm/developer for a popular free MMORPG server... one of the main problems we encountered was that people got too used to keeping their items, that is to say that to loose an item was considered very rare and unfair
this resulted in people valuing their items too much.. which then led to people getting rare items as status symbols.. they would wear them around town (there was no thieving at all on this server) to show off but if they were going somewhere dangerous (eg a dungeon) then the items (despite the fact that they were largely armour/weps) would be safely left in their bank boxes
the result of this was that players that had been ingame for a while accumulated vast hoards of rare items and then when they had everything got bored... it also meant that no-one sold their rare items and the value of them dropped (due to a continous in-flow through loot drops and none being lost from the world)
only solution without thieving was to make even better, even rarer items... thus de-valuing the original items further
i know that theiving wont remove items from the game but it would encourage people to expect to loose their items and therefore they would be more inclined to use them (if loosing an item is a generally excepted occurence that people are used to that is..)
there is nothing sadder than a rare, valuable and usefull item being left to fester in a box somewhere, imho.
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Many people are defined by their possessions - they are symbols of the experiences that they\'ve had.
I think ordinary theiving would just get annoying, but a \"game event\" like a major bank robbery would be kind of fun.
Item dilution is a major problem - perhaps if someone started to accumulate a vast hoard in their house then they could potentially become the target of quests.
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Unfortunately, It is how most MMORG\'s are designed today. You don\'t have a point score that tells everyone how good you are. Instead, in order to compare to yourself to others you have to use rare items instead. I don\'t think stealing them away is the answer.
My personal prefrence would be to have maybe a dozen truely \"one of a kind\" items. The sever population would know who owns them. The rest of the world would be able to get high quality items, but nothing uncommon. For example every warrior should be able to afford a high quality steal sword that will rival the ones used by most Orcs and bandits, but there would be only one \"Sword of the King\"
I would also like the uber rare items NOT to give huge bonuses to combat, but instead grant special very important abilities. For example, only the wielder of the forementioned \"Sword of the King\" could promote warriors to knights.
Now back to the topic... If your thief stole a sword, it would be no big deal as the victom could replace it quickly. If you were to some how steal the \"Sword of the King\" you would be infamous! You would not be able to sell it at the market, but your thief would be well known on the server!!!
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I would gladly agree with theiving inmidst of players if if devs come up with some very good theif system.
By the way, I believe that while player is wearing or weilding items, it should not be allowed to be stolen. The only items to be stolen are the items in the bag\"inventory\". Or a thief should have a choise, go for the gold or go for the inventory.
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I think that certain items should be impossible to steal. Or than you can get a spell placed on an item that makes it impossible to steal it. But that stealing should be part of the game. As far as item depreciation goes theres no real way to stop it other than placing a limit on the life of an item. Thats no good. Even in real life items depreciate just think of the computer your using right now. I think that new and items should be created at the same time an old one is destroyed. Like if the developers decided to create a new type of axe then they would have to destroy an old axe model. The people who still had that axe would receive twice the amount in money that they would have gotten if they sold it in the shop.
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Ok...so you wanna just take someone\'s main weapon...say in the middle of a battle...BUT THAT\'S OK! They have some gold now! ....ummm....how does this make things fair?
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well i don\'t agree with thieving from other player\'s but i also don\'t hoard my stuff if i get something good i use it.even if there is a chance of losing it...eg. i was just recently playing a game where i found a real kick butt peice of armour but i ran into a rust monster (can\'t remember the name of the monster) and bamm that was the end of my armour. but i didn\'t mind because that\'s part of the fun to me. i like a game that has certain challenge\'s that make your heart beat alittle faster (altho now that i think about it having thieve\'s around would add that kinda fun to the game) :D
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And there we have it...the dwarf wants it and if you don\'t give it to him you\'ll find an axe in your head ;)
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MMORPG.... Lets take a looksie here at the description of MMORPG...
Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game....
ROLE-PLAYING: To act out, or to play a role; To use one\'s imagination to act as an animate or inanimate object, or living being while being compared to real life.
Well, if you are acting a role, then you must be compared to real life sooner or later. Sorry people, but this is RPG, not Fantasy... Its MMORPG, not MMOFG. I know that there is very little difference, but the difference is that things can and will happen in real life that can\'t be prevented. I agree with One of a kind items on the server, but I also know that sometimes there is corruption in the system. I am hoping there isn\'t, but I have even seen corruption in public pay to play servers. Servers such as OSI\'s Ultima Online, where a GM gave his real-life friend about 40 million gold pieces along with nearly 40 items that were renamed and recolored. All of them made to be one of a kind and made to make this guy totally rich... Of course the GM got fired from OSI and the guy\'s account banned, but the guy had all the money and items transfered to a new account that no one knew about, and he made Thousands of real life US Dollars off of the hit. Just because he sold it all on Ebay and the such.
My point is though, that if we take out stealing, then we are taking out something that happens in real life, and mostly any other roleplaying game.... Whats the use of a thief then? There isn\'t one... Well now you tell me, YEA there is... You have good advantages in the dark under the shadows and with a small blade...
Well... Sorry thats not a thief, but either a ninja, assassin, or thug. Yea it COULD be RP\'ed as a thief, if you stepped out and were like... \"Give me your money now, or I will slit your throat!\", but that more goes under the THUG category. Thieves are meant to steal with stealth. Not mug like a Thug.
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well, there should be at least some kind of limit to what can or cannot be stolen, and how much of it. Else every thief won\'t be working as smith/miner/teacher or something else, but just pay a visited to each smither, steal their inventory empt, and then sell it back to him like nothing happened, and thus getting a lot of money fast without having to play the job they chose.
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Originally posted by Drayven
Thieves are meant to steal with stealth. Not mug like a Thug.
What if you could steal from NPCs? That would make stealing worthwile and I think if there is a thief class that the thief will be able to steal from NPCs...
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Like in Starwar galaxies most of the people try to expose their exp... But the best won\'t ever reveal themselve... The Jedi...
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Well in RS you steal from the NPCs but not actual players and that wasn\'t to bad the higher lvl in theiving you got then that meant you could steal from higher level NPC, but for PS it might be different I am not sure how much NPC interaction they plan on putting on here :)
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there was npc stealing in EQ, and that was just lame. It is although my personal opinion, but it\'s the easy way out for a game. I propose there will be theving of players, but it has to be risky and hard for a theif
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Someone said thief can steal from NPC. But there\'s no fun to play only against NPC opponents. If you want to play only against computer generated player, play a one-person game, not a MMORPG. Other classes can duel to fight players, but a thief can\'t and that\'s why he must be able to steal without warning.
Why do you people want always to win? Never losing items, Never dying... hey if you can\'t lose, what\'s the point to win? If you want to always be secure, thiefs are bad. But you can\'t be always secure in a game without removing all the fun. Thief are a challenge. Challenges are great.
You just need to make the thing fair. To have a fair thieving:
* Dedomage: when one of your item is stolen, you receive an amount of money (comparable to what you would get if you sell it to a NPC)
Newbie items can\'t be sold and dedomagement is complete: you receive exactly the same items. Like this, there\'ll be no point to steal newbies (and if by luck, a guard catch the thief while he was robbing a newbie, the newbie will probably be a lot happy - see above).
* Thieves can be caught, if you caught a thief, you keep one fourth of his items, the others one are kept to dedomage. If a guard catch someone robbing you, you win only one eighth. He must also pay a fee. (like items, one fourth/eighth for the player)
This will mean that if one of your uber item is stolen, this isn\'t a so big loss that if there was no dedomage system.
On the other hand, thieves will need to be very careful and form organizations to keep their valuable items when they go stealing. This means that a thief must rely more on his skills than on his items to steal - because stealing with valuable items is dangerous.
Isn\'t that fair?
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Elscouta\'s system would cover thiefing pretty well I think, although I wonder if it wouldn\'t bring any other troubles if you\'d make newbie weapons unsellable.
Maybe it would be better if you just couldn\'t steal the newbie weapons or there would be a high punishment in doing so, maybe your luck will go down with a point if you rob a newbie? :D
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how about make the equipment whereout rather then fear or someone taking it from you? if ti is taken from me then i will leave it in the bank. but if it wheresout i can keep having it fixed till it is to far gone and has to me resmith back down to its ore. There by still taking it out of the game.
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I don\'t like the steeling from NPC thing. It\'s like taking candy from a baby.
Deddarus had the right idea. As a player you have two choices - either keep your items in your backpack or wear them around town in display.
If you display them they should be free ground. Inside your backpack they should be relatively safe.
So if you want a parade you better not wander into that dense crowd of strangers...
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If stealing is allowed it should have very serious consequences, like jail time. It\'s simple, get caught stealing a low level item, you do low level time, the higher the level the harder the time. The problem with replacing a stolen item with currency is it opens the door to abuse, how hard is it for a group of thieves to just keep stealing the same item(s) from each other to build up wealth. If a thief class is created, it should be EXTREAMLY hard to level, this ensures that only the dedicated will become proficient at it, it also creates a better roleplaying experience. Basically if you are stolen from you get nothing, but if you catch the thief, you get everything. This also creates a player(s) that hunt known thieves, and the problem solves itself by using the players against themselves.
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I think that for thieving, there should be a penalty for robbing ANYONE under your lvl. The farther down the lvl from you, the higher chance you are to be caught by a guard or something. That would prevent a high lvl thief from griefing newbies. Could be implemented in a similar way for pvp too. Also, I think you should be able to plan out larger scale robberies, perhaps with a guild or something. Maybe break into a famous rich person\'s house and be able to take 10% of his gold and a few middle of the road items. (Support it by saying thats all that could be carried away). Would be cool to have full scale robberies I think.
P.S. to whoever said RPG games are not Fantasy, you can sometimes be correct but you are an idiot if you are talking about PS because this IS a FANTASY game, whether you like it or not. And also, thieves can be thugs as well as stealthy. If someone comes up to you, punches you and steals your sword, you yell, \"Thief! Thief!\" Not, \"Thug! Thug!\"