PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Wormtail_ on February 26, 2004, 02:21:38 am
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This idea has been rather thoroughly discussed in another post (mainly be Wolfmane and myself...), but under the \"Spell Wish List Thread.\" It was kind of off-topic under there, but anyway, here is the essence of the idea.
Basically, Mana Upkeep keeps your spells going at the cost of x mana per y seconds, mintutes, hours, etc. Then came the idea of \'emergency mana,\' which was mana used solely for upkeep purposes, and if it and the regular mana ran out, all enchantmnents failed. Also, if the regular mana was running out, then enchantments would look as if they\'re fading away. Enchantments would create a glowing aura around the enchanted item, the color of the Way. Ex., Dark enchantment on sword creates Dark Aura around sword.
Pros -
More unique magic system
Solves annoying routine of casting and recasting
Allows use of barriers that stay and drain mana power
Cons -
May be too complicated
Abuse (others casting spells on others and leaving spells there)
Feel free to add your ideas, pros, cons, etc. The entire discussion is here (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=4977&boardid=11&page=4) .
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sounds cool... would also mean that if a mage died any spell they were upkeeping would fail
i would like to see something like the following happen as a result of this system
u r wandering over to yer mage friends house.. there is a tree outside that he enchanted to produce magical healing apples... u go to pick one.... suddenly the tree wilts... u know your mage friend has just been slain.. (or is weak)
lol.... a powerfull mage could have loadsa quasi-permanent spells all over the place (non-aggressive spells would not drain too much i assume).. so that if they are killed the whole town would notice... adds to the whole \'becoming a legend\' thing :P
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Hmmm - instead of a small continuous drain, how about you just have one lump sum that covers the cost of casting an enchantment.
Then if the spell does something, it costs a little more. For instance if it was a defensive shield then you would lose a little mana when the shield took hits - this would be nasty in the logistics area because you\'d end up having to keep tabs on tens of thousands of relationships.... So maybe skip this part.
The catch would be this - when mana cost goes to an enchantment it decreases your max so you can\'t gain it back - the only way to gain it back would be to break the enchantment.
(Sorry if this was discussed in the previous thread - I\'ll read it over later.)
*wonders what ever happened to Wolfie*
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i hate it when people start changing mana. Mana is purely for casting, not upholding! if you want to uphold something i would say that you had to select a time to your spell , and that the mana cost would depend on the time.
That way a mage cannot boost all his fellows before a battle, and then start drowning himself into mana potions to keep his mana high, and thus with for ex. a shield spell, make himself and all the others invulnerable.
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How much of the above posts did you actually read Xanadoth?
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all, i just made a comment on post nr 1. isn\'t that allowed?
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i hate it when people start changing mana. Mana is purely for casting, not upholding! if you want to uphold something i would say that you had to select a time to your spell , and that the mana cost would depend on the time.
Such unoriginal things are exactly the things that Planeshift plans to not have. Dragons and the Undead will not be present in Planeshift because of that plan. If you hate new ideas so much, Planeshift is not for you. Unless it\'s free-ness is the only thing that you like...
Hmmm - instead of a small continuous drain, how about you just have one lump sum that covers the cost of casting an enchantment.
Problem is, the entire cost may be too much for one mage to handle. Without detracting from mana reserves, there would be powerful enchantments all over the place, with nothing to stop their appearences.
Will add more later.
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I actually mentioned the part about detracting mana a little below that statement :P
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Originally posted by Wormtail_
i hate it when people start changing mana. Mana is purely for casting, not upholding! if you want to uphold something i would say that you had to select a time to your spell , and that the mana cost would depend on the time.
Such unoriginal things are exactly the things that Planeshift plans to not have. Dragons and the Undead will not be present in Planeshift because of that plan. If you hate new ideas so much, Planeshift is not for you. Unless it\'s free-ness is the only thing that you like...
Where do you suddenly get dragons and undead from? that hasn\'t been around anywhere in this topic.
Hmmm - instead of a small continuous drain, how about you just have one lump sum that covers the cost of casting an enchantment.
Problem is, the entire cost may be too much for one mage to handle. Without detracting from mana reserves, there would be powerful enchantments all over the place, with nothing to stop their appearences.
euhmm... the point is that not 1 mage can handle it. That way he cannot make a spell way to high for his lvl, and then keep drinkin potions to keep the spell up.
And because there is no constant detracting, you have to set the time, and mana cost depend on that time. So that after a while the enchantment is gone and has to be recasted, instead of that a mage does 20 or 30 strong enchantments, and then by drinking potions keep them up forever.
think about a magic shield to block all physical attacks (Dont get troubled just an example!!!) and then by drinkin potions you can keep this up forever. then no knight will stand any chance againt the fury of that mage cause he cannot attack the mage due to the shield, that is everlasting.
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I like the idea of a constant drain of mana more than typing in the time I want it to last, then calculate a lump sum. Its looks and feels too much like playing a text game if you just see a bunch of numbers flying around.
A spell that would be like a lighting storm would constantly drain mana and dissolve after the mage ran out of mana (a bar I presume) or if he canceled it or another mage countered.
If a mage is powerful enough, he should be able to cast easy enchantments that no longer can drain his mana (like enchanting a sheild to make it stronger) in normal conditions. If the sheild were hit, THEN it will drain the mana so I can absorb the damage dealt.
Should a mage\'s enchantments fizzle when he logs out?
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That sounds like an excellent idea, it only seems logcal that when you cast a spell for a long time you will need to use your mana to keep it up. Like flying would drain a lot of someones magic, this is why wizards in books mostly don\'t use their mana unless really really needed!
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ok.. how about this slight amenedment
say a mage has a max mana of 100 and casts a static enchantment... this enchantment would lower his max mana (lets say by 10 for this particular 1).. now the mage has a max mana of 90.. limiting his spell casting ability... this would be in addition to the mana drain
result:
even if a mage keeps his enchantment going permanently by topping up his mana with potions (dont really see whats so wrong with this.. potions cost money u know).. the enchantment will limit his spellcasting ability
with lots of enchantments happening the mage will be unable to cast many powerfull spells... additionally the time taken for his mana to drain to 0 (at which point the enchantments fail and the max mana is set back to 100) will decrease as the number of enchantments increase
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Mana upkeep is definetely a good idea, especially if some kind of summoning is done later. If enchantement are permanent and without upkeep, you\'ll end up with enchantement everywhere, on each sword and summoned creatures surrounding each mage.
With upkeep, enchantement will become a lot more valuable and that\'s a good thing imho.
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this upkeep thing sounds like the upkeep in wc3 . i didn;t about u guys but i think this may decrease the fun factor in an rpg game
i think having a set time limit for summons and stuff should fine. !! :D
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I really don\'t like timeout. If you need an enchantement for one hours, you\'ll cast it each minute? you call this fun? ;)
On the other hand, if you have an upkeep, you cast it once at the beginning of your quest then you dispel it at the end. Easy, Quick, Realistic... What can you wish more? It\'s sure that you can\'t pump all a crowd like you could with a timeout and no upkeep, but is this a bad thing?
The problem with timeout is that you end up never using enchantement because you don\'t want to waste your time and mana to recast spells all the time. With upkeep you save your time and you must only care to not cast too many enchantements.
Maybe we can find way to make an enchantement permament to allow creation of magic swords. But this must be excessively rare to avoid a devaluation of these swords.
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The upkeep system is good if there are no mana potions or stuff.
If there would be mana potions it would suck because if a guy would be upkeeping barrier or something ... he could upkeep it infinitely with his mana potions. So this is definately good system if there are no mana potions.
This system is very good for many enchantments but if somebody wants some kind of permanency or stuff ... there could be separate spells for fortifying upkeeped spells (for example you and your friend could submit your mana to the barrier by casting fortifying spells at it)
bah ... not my day ... flare me if that post sucked ... cya
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To get an idea of how this might work, play a mage in Arcanum. You can hold a number of spells based on one of your attributes that I can\'t remember right now, and each spell drains your mana per second, like said here. I think it worked out very well.
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you can do by mana/per sec or so, but that would make a high lvl mage an uber god!
Then he could do 2 or 3 shield spells, making him almost immune to melee, distance and spell attacks. and then he could just run into a battle, and in the middle launch giant attacks like blizzard storm and meteor showers and decay clouds. He would be immune for it cause he is the caster, and if he aint the shield spells will guard him.
Then he starts drinking mana potion and just wait untill nothing is standing on both feet anymore.
Result of this. he gets no damage, he gets a huge load of items and money for new potions, he gets a enormous ammount of experience for that many dead people, making him even stronger.
The worst is that a lot of people will quit their characters and make a mage themselfs as well, and so melee combat will dissapear.
Then with so many mages the game will become bored, and thus a lot of people will quit the game, leaving only a handfull of people in the game, whom will quit as well after a while when they are all alone.
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simple enough
dont have mana pots
make max mana dependent on int not magic skill
have enchantments temporarily lower the max mana whilst in effect in a ddition to mana drop
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dont have mana pots
Agreed. Mana potions are used soooo often in soooo many games. Take out the mana potions, and you take out sudden bursts of mana for payment of upkeep. Which is what we want. The disadvantage is that mages will have to expend their casting mana more wisely on things like enchantments.
make max mana dependent on int not magic skill
Then we\'ll see incredible amounts of intellegent mages waving big staffs around. Or wands, hands, etc. Perhaps magic skill could play a small role in determining max mana, and intelligence a large factor.
have enchantments temporarily lower the max mana whilst in effect in a ddition to mana drop
Hmm... But what about the mages who don\'t cast enchantments? They will have the uberness of doom, being able to cast several spells at once, having mana come to them by the tens and hundreds. Perhaps you must cast a certain amount of enchantments to have a greater \"income of mana,\" only if you have such capabilities (intelligence/experience). If you are a very intelligent and experienced mage with no enchantments to pay for, you do not have a very high income. With several enchantments to pay for, you get a higher income, though most of it is spent on paying for upkeep.
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i dont think u should penalise someone for having higher stats/skill
a more powerfull mage should be just that.. the trick is balancing it
if enchantments (and by enchantments i envision stationary fields of magic.. eg a sector that heals or gives u a str increase while u r inside its area) were balanced enough then mages not using them wouldnt have an advantage
it should be that the choice between enchantments or no enchantments is a purely tactical decision ... you can set up a defensive/enhancing field but it will mean you cant cast as powerfull spells or as many spells without charging up a bit
eg
Mage 1 goes to attack Mage 2
mage 2 sets up an enchantment field in which he is protected from poison
mage 1 then wouldnt be able to harm mage 2 with poison spells but can cast his most powerfull spells that arent poison based
mage 2 however cannot cast his most powerfull spells
result.. mage 2 has traded the use of his most powerfull spells for the protective benfit of his enchantment... as he maintains the enchantment he will be able to cast fewer and fewer spells.. forcing him to eventually come out of his lil protective bubble and fight like a man
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Originally posted by Deddarus
make max mana dependent on int not magic skill
skill should determine mana cost, and fizzle rate(there will be one) , int determines mana count
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I envision an enchantment as either a stationary or mobile magical beneficial aura. Something like a door that prevents unwanted tresspassers from entering, or a speeding bubble that gives faster transportation. The enchantment does not have to remain stationary, but it will cost more if mobile.
However, if a mage gets an extremely high mana income, they will be able to cast powerful spells without stop. There must be a way to limit that, such as a percentage of there max. mana. For every enchantment, perhaps, the income is raised by a small percentage, but in no way guarantees the raise counteracts the upkeep cost of the enchantment.
Also, as a mage maintains an enchantment, the maximum power of his spells is weakened, perhaps, not the actual spell itself. For example, a fireball may lose some of its power and heat when an enchantment is casted, instead of the mage losing the spell completely. For as long as the enchantment is maintained, anyway.
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they have a system of spell fatigue implemted in the game, its self explanitory
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In the example of a mage casting 3 shields and being invulnerable, there\'s something very wrong. A shield should never prevent ALL damage of a certain type, especially not a common type like physical, magical or ranged. A shield could prevent an percentage of the total damage done. This percentage could be based on the lvl of the spell, skill lvl, mana put into it, a combination of these factors or something completely else. My points is that 100% protection is not balanced, in no way.
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Mana ammount shouldn\'t be done by lvl in intelligence or so, because some mages will only use charisma, or only intelligence or only will.
I myself am a mage, but i have my INT as low as possible, because i know i wont be using those ways. If you then make mana rely on INT, i would still have to raise my int, altough i would do nothing with it. That would also happen with other mages that concentrate on only a few ways, and not all.
Mana ammount should be done by charisma + will + intelligence so that a mage focussed on 1 way, would still be able to have as much mana as a mage that doesn\'t focus and goes for all three ways.
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Originally posted by Skizzik
In the example of a mage casting 3 shields and being invulnerable, there\'s something very wrong. A shield should never prevent ALL damage of a certain type, especially not a common type like physical, magical or ranged. A shield could prevent an percentage of the total damage done. This percentage could be based on the lvl of the spell, skill lvl, mana put into it, a combination of these factors or something completely else. My points is that 100% protection is not balanced, in no way.
i know that a shield wont reflect all damage, But shield 1 takes damage, some damage comes trough.
Then shield 2 takes damage, even less damage comes trough,
Shield 3 takes last damage, mage has nothing to worry about.
And that will happen when mana is lowered with time. I am sure i will do that, and then i will seek very strong monsters to lvl up my skills tremendously fast.
While if mana and time are set at the forhand, the shield will collapse after a while, either when time is over or when to much damage is taken, and then the mage has to recast, taking some time and thus giving other a opportunity to do a huge ammount of damage fast with melee or with strong spells, since a mage usually doesn\'t have heavy armor or so.
That way the game will be balanced more.
And mana potions should NOT be banished, unless healing spells and potions are banished as well.
A mage relies on mana, if you take that away you should take healing away as well, because that is what a strong knight relies on.
If you do one thing, also do the other else you will get power unbalanced.
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This is not how shield should behave. For example if a shield take 30% of damage, this means 70% damage pass. So damage who are not absorbed by the three shields is 70%*70%*70%=34%. Kinda more than the 10% that would have being infliged with your system.
About mana max, according to cvs (not completely accurate but still ...), mana max will depend in equal proportions of the three magic stats
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xanaroth... with no mana pots mages r forced to use their magic tactically... i dont see a problem with this.. with mana pots all it takes is for 1 person to obtain a stack of em and (even without enchantments) they will own everyone (with a large supply of mana pots they could cast the most deadly spell over and over and over)
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Although it would take time for the mage to bring out a mana potion and drink it, that doesnt mean he cant use a paralize spell that sucks away all his mana, drink the potion right in front of the paralized, then cast big uber fire ball that drains his mana again. But he\'s fine because he has more potions. That would normally wear somebody out or fatigue them to drain themselves so quickly. Nay to potions! If you\'re worn out, take to the words of Saddam Hussien \"Hey, relax! You need a rest guy!\"
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While if mana and time are set at the forhand, the shield will collapse after a while, either when time is over or when to much damage is taken, and then the mage has to recast, taking some time and thus giving other a opportunity to do a huge ammount of damage fast with melee or with strong spells, since a mage usually doesn\'t have heavy armor or so.
That way the game will be balanced more.
The mage could, of course, take off the shield when away from combat, and recast it. Thusly, the balance it knocked off balance. Or the mage could see the shield time running extremely low, and run off to a safe location to recast the shield.
Although it would take time for the mage to bring out a mana potion and drink it, that doesnt mean he cant use a paralize spell that sucks away all his mana, drink the potion right in front of the paralized, then cast big uber fire ball that drains his mana again. But he\'s fine because he has more potions. That would normally wear somebody out or fatigue them to drain themselves so quickly. Nay to potions! If you\'re worn out, take to the words of Saddam Hussien \"Hey, relax! You need a rest guy!\"
Indeed. Mana potions and health potions merely keep a person fighting when they should be resting. When you\'re out of mana, you\'re out of mana, and if you have mana potions... Well, ten days into the game and 100 powerful mages. And warriors using health potions.
Planeshift is not going to be based on combat completely. There are going to be peace-time trades you can use. A way to balance combat and non-combat should be found, and taking away mana/health potions eliminates some of the extreme time spent on combat, the other time being spent on traveling.
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imho enchantments on weapons can be made by binding mana crystals to that weapon to escape unlimited use crystals may be rare and hard to get
ps. breaking crystal nutralizes enchantment so crystal has to be hiden well
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spell enchantments on items would be permanent probable. To make an enchanted item you would have to have the materials enchanted not the actual item probably. To actually make a weapon do more damage you would probably buff the characters strength and skill with a spell or something.
there would probably ony be a few spells draining mana at a steady rate. like maybe summoning a ring of fire around you and holding it there to burn your enemies when they hit you?
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also all enchants should work only in some particular radius, radius can grow with skills.
otherwise we would end up whith people running with some magic shield or something just because his friend is mage and right now offline and don\'t need his mana.
By the way that will happen to enchants then caster goes offline?
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Oooooo, ?Always have to be the old system HP MP? Imaginate this;
(I talking only for magic) Two baars, a Powefull Baar (PB) and a mana baar (MB). The PB is consumed in seconds, but also is regeneration in seconds, a aprendice of magic only can do a little fireball with the PB and them, to trow more of these Little fireballs he has to consume the power of his MB. A more powerfull mage can (for esample) trow 5 fire ball with the PB and if he can\'t wait a few seconds for the regenerate os the PB he have to consume his MB. With this metod, the mages can cast little spells with none of the MB points.
Bufff, sorry but I can\'t explain it better with my low level of english. Cada cual k lo entienda a su manera le?e XDDD
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That was a idea, another idea is to do something like \"Black and White\" game, you know, do simbols whit the mouse or combinations of botons in the keyboard to cast the spells
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also all enchants should work only in some particular radius, radius can grow with skills.
otherwise we would end up whith people running with some magic shield or something just because his friend is mage and right now offline and don\'t need his mana.
By the way that will happen to enchants then caster goes offline?
The fact that enchantments only work in a certain radius is a given fact. Where else would they go, for game balance?
The enchantments would stay there if the caster is offline. As for friends running around with shields supported by others... To prevent that, damage to the shield would be taken by the wearer of the shield\'s mana, perhaps.
(I talking only for magic) Two baars, a Powefull Baar (PB) and a mana baar (MB). The PB is consumed in seconds, but also is regeneration in seconds, a aprendice of magic only can do a little fireball with the PB and them, to trow more of these Little fireballs he has to consume the power of his MB. A more powerfull mage can (for esample) trow 5 fire ball with the PB and if he can\'t wait a few seconds for the regenerate os the PB he have to consume his MB. With this metod, the mages can cast little spells with none of the MB points.
Hmm... I think I might see what you\'re saying. However, what is the point of the PB? Is it simply an extra boost of mana that is the same as the MB and nothing else, or does it add something new and unique? If it is simly an extra boost, why not add the PB to the MB? Of course, since the PB is regenerated more quickly, that is a plus, in which case the bar is the same, simply different colors, perhaps.
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Originally posted by Xanaroth
you can do by mana/per sec or so, but that would make a high lvl mage an uber god!
Then he could do 2 or 3 shield spells, making him almost immune to melee, distance and spell attacks. and then he could just run into a battle, and in the middle launch giant attacks like blizzard storm and meteor showers and decay clouds. He would be immune for it cause he is the caster, and if he aint the shield spells will guard him.
Then he starts drinking mana potion and just wait untill nothing is standing on both feet anymore.
Result of this. he gets no damage, he gets a huge load of items and money for new potions, he gets a enormous ammount of experience for that many dead people, making him even stronger.
The worst is that a lot of people will quit their characters and make a mage themselfs as well, and so melee combat will dissapear.
Then with so many mages the game will become bored, and thus a lot of people will quit the game, leaving only a handfull of people in the game, whom will quit as well after a while when they are all alone.
Old post, I know. I just have to post a reaction.
What would a knight do of the same level as the uber powered mage?
He would get his magic sword and pierce partially through the shield spells dealing quite some damage. As is mentioned before, it is all about gameplay balance.
In DnD the only difference between a level 1 and a level 20 character is the amount of visual effects. ;) All relative damage is the same.
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We don\'t know whether planeshift will have mana potions (and I don\'t know if they\'ve finalized the mana system or not) but perhaps one way of bringing balance to the \"endless supply of mana potions\" problem would be to introduce a balancing negative effect - for instance, brain death or heart failure from mana overdose.
I don\'t know if this is overly complex, or anything remotely like what the devs are planning, but here is how I would \"do\" mana:
Each player has a maximum mana capacity, a current mana capacity, a current level of mana, and a rate of recharge (\"mana flow\" or something). Before casting any spells/enchantments/whatever, a players current capacity and current level would equal max capacity.
Ordinary instant spells (e.g. zapping someone with a ball of fire) would cause an instant decrease in current level, and mana would recharge until it reached current capacity. Semi-permanent spells would require committing some of your total capacity, causing you current capacity to drop by that amount (capping how much you can store up). This would represent a division of the mages concentration towards the spells upkeep. More \"active\" spells with a non-immediate duration would cause a steady mana drain. Permanent enchantments would involve transferring the burden of upkeep onto some magical object, and would be more of a \"smithing\" type capability.
Thoughts?
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eeeeeeeeeeee.... it is a stupid thing, think about it, there is Healt Potions with a negative effect? I think there isn\'t. Then leave the Mana Potion in peace please. Otherwise, I don\'t know how is the inventory system but If there is a weigth limitation, and the mana potion have a determine weigth.... you know, the mages aren\'t much strong and they can\'t carry too weigth.
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And about the magic shields;
Basically is use the mana like a barrier ?no? then I think it can to have invulnerable effect, but if somebody hit you, a bit of mana lowed, no mana, no shield. (bit of mana depent of the strong of the hit)
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Firstly, edit posts instead of posting new ones. Posting twice in a row may be seen as an attempt to boost your post count, not exactly the most reputable thing.
I like the idea of negative effects on overdose of mana potions. The same thing can be applied to overdose of health potions, which pretty much does not leave either in peace. Perhaps the negative effects could include, other than death, would be what the WoT series know as \"gentling\" for males or \"stilling for females. Basically, the channeler is cut off from the ability to channel, either by taking in more of the magical power than safely handled, or cut off forcibly. Rather harsh, though. As for increasing the weight of mana potions, a mage could simply summon a magical helper of a sort to carry his/her/its mana potions.
As for transferring the \"burden of upkeep\" on another magical object, I would like to see as to how any mage would be limited in their enchantment creating capability. Sure, the mana is lost, but it can be regained like after casting an ice shard or arrow of air.
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The first thing, that of it was her due to a problem with the navigator, calm that I don\'t believe that it happens again.
The truth is that I have not understood all you have said it, my English level is low. But that of secondary effects in the potions..... it depends on the effect, if you tell me that to take many potions of life in little time can cause something as \"confusion\" (as if it would be drunk) and that to take too many mana potions can cause a fainting (as if he/she had given him a small shock or something like that) it can be, but I find that of the death too much.
In the game you can lock spells in objects? I refer to something like catch in a sword a spell like \"FireBall\" so that the sword has an edge in flames, or put in a hanging something like a \"dissipate magic\" so that it protects the payer of weak incantations or something like that
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aaaah but you are forgetting about the runes wich are needed to cast the spell.
sure mana can be replenished with mana potions but runestones will disappear and all their energy used to make the spell, now this was a major flaw in rune(putting this here so it wont get censored)scape because there was no mana only runestones, and you could only buy the most basic runes in runeshops, so you would have to kill a strong beast to get a rare rune, wich only fighters could do, so tank mages were pretty useless. however in RS2 beta wich is 3d there is a skill called runecrafting, wich allows you to make runes but, this gives mages a huge advantage.
so the only sensible soloution is to make all runes available in rune shops but make the runes needed to cast the powerfullest spells expensive, so you need to be rich. not a problem because there is such an interesting economy, so you could just make money by being a merchant or something. and then when you have enough money buy an ass load of runes use it to complete a quest or something wich you needed the runes for and go back to be a merchant. anyway i am getting off topic because this was mainly about mana but the runes thing kinda solves it dont it?
or am i just gibbering :D?
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That is the worst magic system I never hear!!! That system make the mages totally incompetent and usseles. That way will do PS a place without mages, you\'ll see...
Everybody know what the \"mage\" job is hard, but this is too much.
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el sistema m?gico all? trabaj? realmente absolutamente bien sin mana.
actually the magic system there worked quite well without mana
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*Nearly has apoplexy*
My gosh! Not Runescape! That magic system was HORRIBLE! No strategy, no uniqueness, just a bunch of stones used to gain special effects. Soooooo boring. The mundane system of mana was much more efficient, in my opinion. Mana allowed for constant recharge, runes did not. Runes required shopkeepers, whom were actually pretty annoying. The fellow shoppers, actually, but I ignored them. I tried to be a mage in That Game, but failed miserably because it was \"equal oppurtunities for all.\" Even if most were pures, focusing on strength. Pathetic.
... What does this have to do with Mana Upkeep?
In the game you can lock spells in objects? I refer to something like catch in a sword a spell like \"FireBall\" so that the sword has an edge in flames, or put in a hanging something like a \"dissipate magic\" so that it protects the payer of weak incantations or something like that
Well, the game is still accepting new ideas, so you can always have this idea discussed, in this thread or another. In any case, this locking spells in objects will cut down on the incredible amount of spells that there could be, as they are all variations of one spell. Which is a good thing, I think, as people don\'t have to check all these sorts of spells when they can be combined in one. The spell \"Fireball\" could be renamed, though, to some sort of overall concept of fire and flame in the Way it\'s in.
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I agree, the runescape magic system was horrible, we need MP and I like this idea of Mana Upkeep. The only problem I have is that you could just load up on Mana Potions to keep you mana full. There has to be some way to change that...
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Did I read something wrong or was it already mentioned that magic in PS has something to do with glyphs.
/me runs back to the CVS?
No I was right. :))
As for upkeep. I played a game that I shall not name in which enchanted items were ?runed? (basically a symbol.) and the rune than had to be charged with mana as the effect was used. Continuous effects drained the rune quickly while instanced effects drained it more slowly and could be used at the beings discretion.
If a user was careless and did not recharge their items the rune would eventually ?fade? and would become useless. In this way items were phased out of existence and you did not have hundreds of (I can?t believe I?m writing this.) ?U8er L33t? stuff in the world.
As for the shield debate. What kind of potions are you guys drinking? I?ve never played a game where the potions immediately recharged your mana reserve or pool. And powerful enchantments should drain mana more quickly than lesser ones.
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I like the idea of mana upkeep. I also agree with Deddarus on the whole idea of lessening your total mana reserve. Needless to say I am not into the idea of mana potions that fill you back up instantly.
Did I say anything worthwhile?(
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well the way i see it is that the soulution to this problem could be acomplished by
#1. making mana potions only work if your mana is compleatly depleated. there for the enchantment would be broken befour you could get more mana.
#2. spell cool down. This would mean the mage in question would have to wait a while (depending on the power of the spell) to cast it again
That would make Powerful mages able to sustain enchantment for a while. but they could not spam mana pots. and they could not spam uber spells.
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#1. making mana potions only work if your mana is compleatly depleated. there for the enchantment would be broken befour you could get more mana.
#2. spell cool down. This would mean the mage in question would have to wait a while (depending on the power of the spell) to cast it again
Hmm... The mana potion idea seems fine, only if the second idea is implemented. However, a mage would have a difficult time trying to avoid a monster if constant casting is required. Then again, there should be some sort of teamplay there so that a warrior is helping the mage. But if the monster is rather powerful, the warrior might be damaged and the mage cannot heal him if there is \"cooling down time\" for spells. Unless the mage spends his/her/its efforts on healing the warrior...
A few problems here, mainly with circling around, but proper strategy solves problems here.
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Exactly and then it encourages the team play (family) atmosphere.
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The main obsticle i see is to have mana pots or not many games use them and well there all still fun but wat is the point of PS if it is like the rest of games? I think that having no mana pots would help gameplay because of mages being cautious. Myself being a mage i would like an alternative to pots if they are taken out. Like spells or enchantments which increase regeneration rate. i read some of the other mana ideas and liked a few but there is a lot of complicated things here to and well the more complicated we make things the longer it takes to make but i\'ll leave that to the devs to decide on.
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what about this. say your casting a shield spell. if theres a button or something to hold down for casting then the longer you take to cast a spell the stronger it will be and the longer it will last. so if a mage uses a shield spell on another player as the mage is casting the spell you can see the shield getting \"more dense\" or stronger as he\'s casting it steadily drains mana. the longer he casts the less it adds to the shields strength so after a certain amount of casting time it becomes inefficient to continue the spell because the mage\'s mana will be continually decreasing and the shield (towards the end of the cast) will not be getting much stronger. then as time goes by after the spell is cast the shield begins to fade and instead of making the player invincible for a minute or so the player will slowly incur more and more damage as the shield fades. and at any time the shield can be \"regenerated\" through the same casting process. the max possible strength and duration of the spell could be dependent on the ability/experience/stats of the mage.
also instead of mana pots just have something like meditation to regenerate it more quickly or have certain items help regenerate mana or health.
also this sort of has to do with the living weapons idea in the other thread. but to allow greater variation in weapons without having something ridiculous like talking weapons, you could apply the same idea from the casting to enchanting items. so you could use spells or potions to enchant or charm or whatever its called an item and the longer the spell is cast on the weapon the more effective it would be. so to change a boring sword into a posionous sword you could add a potion. or to make it into a flaming sword you could cast a spell on it. to make it a really hot flaming sword you take more time to cast the spell. or make it an icy sword or invisible sword to seek around with or any of that sort of stuff. this way you could also make armor that heals you or regenerates mana. or make items that boost stats or strengthen spells. but not so much spells that strengthen spells. that seems too easy to abuse.
those are just some thoughts though. im new to all of this so maybe im wrong.
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This idea reminds me of certain things of the use of the One Power in Robert Jordan\'s The Wheel of Time books.
In the books, weaves (spells) can be maintained (increasing the power of the weave but severely limiting the casting of simultaneous weaves, only powerful and experienced Aes Sedai (mages) can maintain more than a handfull of lesser weaves), or tied off (using up more strength, and sacrificing power for drasticaly increased effect times).
Note that some weaves can only be maintained (Travelling (portals) ), others can only be tied off (Keepings (stasis) ), others are one-shot weaves (Healing)
There is also the rare skill of making Ter\'angreal (magic items, some work only when chanelled (focusing spell energy) through), Angreal (magic items that increase the user\'s ability to channel) , and Sa\'angreal (Magic items that drastically increase the user\'s ability, with one of the more powerful ones a single user could wipe out a small town)
heh don\'t know how much (if any) relevance this has.
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You may or may not have taken this into consideration but you have to remember that the various character classes need to be balanced so you dont get one uber dominating character that goes around pawning everone like lamers.
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Originally posted by Xanaroth
And because there is no constant detracting, you have to set the time, and mana cost depend on that time. So that after a while the enchantment is gone and has to be recasted, instead of that a mage does 20 or 30 strong enchantments, and then by drinking potions keep them up forever.
think about a magic shield to block all physical attacks (Dont get troubled just an example!!!) and then by drinkin potions you can keep this up forever. then no knight will stand any chance againt the fury of that mage cause he cannot attack the mage due to the shield, that is everlasting.
potions should be expensive and you shouldnt be able to carry an unlimited amount of them.
and the knight will be able to carry potions of healing which will heal him when his health gets low and thus be as imortal as the shielded mage.
but boths potions will in the end run out and the shield cant be maintained anymore.
and dont just say the mages shield always last longer than the knights health meter because then its the devs fault and theres nothing wrong with the system exept its unbalanced.
Originally posted by elscouta
Maybe we can find way to make an enchantement permament to allow creation of magic swords. But this must be excessively rare to avoid a devaluation of these swords.
i think aladins idea was really good, the enchantments can drain mana from some kind of valuable mana generating items, aladin said crystals, instead of some mage that way permament enchantments can be created.
if you want to get an permament extra damage enchantment to your sword get a crystal, smith it into the sword, and enchant the sword but make the crystal the source of mana instead of some mage.
crystals should of course be extremly rare and valuable so that there wont be to many permamently magic items.
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Here is what I think,
Why can?t you be able to become a ?Uber Mage? if you work hard enough?
Anyway I was thinking about this idea for balance:
Since I get the impression that we will not have specific ?classes? like mage & warrior, that means that everyone will have mana, & in other games, mana is almost always useless to people who choose to be warriors.
I was thinking of the Anime ?Naruto? (it?s about ninjas who use ?Chakra? to use certain illusionary & ninja techniques while fighting in combat) anyway, why can?t warrior types have special warrior skills like injecting mana energy into there sword (not needing a mage to do it or needing lots of magic skill) or maybe inject mana into your legs to make you run fast?
It?s not really a specific magic spell, it would be more of a will of the mind sort of thing, forcing your energy to aid you in combat. This would make it so that you could also become a ?Uber Knight? as well if you work hard.
Also, if you are smith, & craft many weapons, you should get a bonus in combat for knowing how the weapon if forged, you will probably have better control over the weapon & this would encourage people to have jobs like smith?
I would like to see everyone using magic in the game, mage & warrior alike, but in very different ways, & maybe you don?t have to be super intelligent ether to transfer mana energy for warriors, maybe you can get so good @ using a sword that you start draining some of your mana as you go, this mana drain starts increasing your sword usage skill.
Also, many people like mages because of there ability to kill multiple enemies @ the same time, but I think that warriors should have weapon abilities, with mana extensions, stuff like creating shockwaves & power strike effects like charging up for a large attack, this would drain mana per second.
If we are not going to have mana pots, then I think we should encourage energy drain abilities, Sort of like vampires, but not really, stuff like you can suck the mana right out of a magical creature like a lepricon, then all the little thing can do in jump up & bite you in the leg if you drain enough of it?s mana lol! I think these sort of spells/abilities should take time & concentration, if you get hit & loose concentration, then you may need to start it again?
Also, spell absorption/reversal spells/armor, I think there should be Armor that repels certain magical ability as well as physical attacks, this would help the warriors be more balanced, like if you are attacked by a enemy mage, most of the spells get deflected & some hit other enemies nearby or get bounced back to the original caster, that is the answer to the ?mana pots make uber mages with sheilds? maybe there can be armor enhancement spells specific to warriors so that there armor can be easily repaired.
But what about Summoning? Well, I think that we shouldn?t be drained constantly by the things we summon, it would be more of a one time mega one-time pre-summon drain to activate the portal, then the thing you summonsed would have it?s own mana that steadily decreases the longer it is there, & after that mana runs out the thing disappears until summoned again.
Of course there could e mana transfer/sharing spells you can use on them. I think the strength & mana of the creature summoned should be determined by the size of the portal you open, opening a uber large portal would require a large amount of Time Mana & Skill of Summoning that specific sort of creature.
So even if you are super ultra powerful uber mage with lots of mana & time, & you try to summon something through a portal for the first time, the window you open will be shaky & waver in size because you do not have much experience, of course you could get lucky & summon something powerful but most likely you will summon a puny little thing that can barely fight weak monsters, there shouldn?t be a set strength of the things you summon, even if you are very experienced @ summoning something then you should still be able to mess up & summon something weak?
There should be a ranger that you set for a portal, like if you spend X amount of Time+Mana summoning a portal, then you can summon something in the range of X-10 to X+10 of course you most probably to summon something X powerful, but this value should very.
The mana you currently have would somewhat limit the size of a portal you can open, like if you run out of mana, then you stop summoning the portal & the summoning is complete, of course there is the fact that you can drink mana pots to increase the spells effectiveness, but that will not matter, much because it really depends on how skilled you are @ summoning the thing, (remember even a uber mage cannot summon the most powerful of all thing first try, they have to work on it?)
Aslo I think that summoning portals should look like Spheres mor then doors, otherwise you should be able to keep feeding a door portal & let many man monsters out instead of just a limited number like 1 bug one or 2 or 3 little weaker ones.. but this is getting off-topic so?
Lets see, I actually have sort of come up with a system for magic during this, the skill level you have limits the effectiveness of the spell, who cares if the mage can keep it up forever, if the mage?s skill in that spell is weak, no mater how much mana they put into it, it will not get much stronger, just last longer?
Ack! This is long? I should limit the time I spend on writing my ideas, I have to much right now!
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You could always consider giving all spells a difficulty, and maintaining a spell, like a shield, would take a certain % of the mages focus, like a Basic shield would take, 25% of the mages focus to cast, and require 15% of it to maintain, and increase it depending on the damage done. Like.....Shield spell takes 0 mana and 25% focus(Use of the runes fuels creation of the spell, your mana serves as the fuel that keeps the shield alive.) so it\'s taking 15% of your focus to maintain, and mabye 3 mana per 5 seconds. Someone hits it and it raises the focus to keep it up to about 65%, which drops as it becomes more stable, back down to 15%. Then, Your 50 mana starts top go low(About 15), so you drink a mana potion(Which requires 75% of your focus) and then your focus is at 90%, and the shield holds up, but you couldn\'t possibly hope to do anything else until it drops again.
Perhaps create a multitasker/one track minded advantage/disadvantage at character creation.
Also create skill(s) for decreasing focus % Needed, and/or value of each focus % because a mage who has been around for several years is much more likely to be able to hold proper focus than a relatively new one.
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Here are some of my ideas.
An enchantment should be casted like an normal spell, with a certain amount of mana to cast, and then lower maintaining cost. The mage should be limited from casting several enchantments at once. In other words - maintaining the enchantment should limit your spellcasting ability. ZakTorokko\'s idea (focus) and Deddarus\' one (lowering max mana) are interesting. There should be risk of breaking the enchantment (by being hit, by trying to maintain too many at once or by walking too far of the enchanted object).
I don\'t like the idea of spells staying in the game when the player logs out.
I think this system is quite realistic (as far as magic can be:rolleyes: ), because the mage needs to constantly channel his mana into the spell, and spell doesn\'t become self-maintaining separate entity.
Problem with potions could be solved by that they don\'t regenerate mana instantly, but instead speed up natural regeneration. Using them should also fatigue you a lot faster. Or just throw them out, they aren\'t that needed. ;)
Wait.. will there be fatigue in PS?
EDIT: Of course which spells you can cast and which you can\'t doesn\'t depend only on your mana but mainly on your spellcasting skill.
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Originally posted by Entamis
Here are some of my ideas.
An enchantment should be casted like an normal spell, with a certain amount of mana to cast, and then lower maintaining cost. The mage should be limited from casting several enchantments at once. In other words - maintaining the enchantment should limit your spellcasting ability. ZakTorokko\'s idea (focus) and Deddarus\' one (lowering max mana) are interesting. There should be risk of breaking the enchantment (by being hit, by trying to maintain too many at once or by walking too far of the enchanted object).
I don\'t like the idea of spells staying in the game when the player logs out.
I think this system is quite realistic (as far as magic can be:rolleyes: ), because the mage needs to constantly channel his mana into the spell, and spell doesn\'t become self-maintaining separate entity.
Problem with potions could be solved by that they don\'t regenerate mana instantly, but instead speed up natural regeneration. Using them should also fatigue you a lot faster. Or just throw them out, they aren\'t that needed. ;)
Wait.. will there be fatigue in PS?
EDIT: Of course which spells you can cast and which you can\'t doesn\'t depend only on your mana but mainly on your spellcasting skill.
this is perfect, i lik the idea
forget all others ^^
btw I think that magic shield should be able to take a precalculated ammount of damage depending on your level, and NOT like others say \"take 30% damage\". Also it should take an average ammount of stamina (fatigue?).
8)
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If you had a familiar to carry potions then it would be difficult to spell your familiar and yourself. Also If you were being attacked by several people it would be hard to use lots of potions at once. Also it would be hard to move or use spells as you would be using a lot of mana potions.
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I think there should be a start cost and then a cost each time the enchantment is used, like when something hits the shield or whatever it is, and on top of this there should be a upkeep where u loose mana/sec for some spells like shield, where a spell like the one with the ables should only cost when it is used.
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Here my idea:
Some spells which occur only on an instant would only cost an initial ammount of MP, but spells that have persistence over time would also have not only the casting cost, but also the upkeep mentioned on previous posts.
I don\'t think it will unbalance things because the more upkeep you have on yor MP the slower it regenerates or even it can start draining which would force you to break some spells or when you run out of MP spells would be rendered useless.
Mana potions would be a good options for some critical moments where you need to increase the MP on a short time adding a big increase to the regeneration rate, but on a counterpart it should also be lowering temporally the MP max. So you can gain 50 MP fast over 10 seconds, but your max MP would also decrease. Mana potions would be a way to force mana regeneration but you damage yourself in your mana capacity in exchange.
Max MP would also restore by time but slower than the normal regeneration speed. For example, if you get 2 points per second, your max recovers 1 point every 4 seconds. This would allow the usage of mana potions but prevent abusing it or your character would quickly be unable to cast nearly any spell.
For the effects when a user logs out, some spells like shields would vanish while other like enchanting a weapon would be have temporally no effect until the mage logs in again. But I still don\'t think this is a good option to handle this problem of the caster logging out.
Sorry for the bad english and the big post.
edit: some typos
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** BUMP ** Weeee... man this is an enthralling thread.
All of you, or in my reading, missed that the upkeep systems, sound an awful lot like Magic:The Gathering.
Certain creatures required tapped mana sources, and the pots that are discussed sounds like, mana vaults, or sol rings, or the infamous dark ritual, that gives an extension to spell burst.
As far as runes, they have been long used for magic properties before the unnamed game ever did, and many excellent RPG systems have used something similar. Glyphs have been brought up, and they do exist in PS, as pointed a couple of times.
Instead of mana potions which seems to be in general concensus as a bad thing, really I think are.
Mana was brought up in terms of \"Chakras\"... which I was surprised to see listed here.
This more in terms of what the Chinese, and Japenese, term Chi, and Ki. Or life force energy. Tai-Chi is essentially a form oriental motions that stimulates this energy. It\'s also used in a popular spiritual healing practice called Rei{ki}. Other such things as meridian lines, meditation, and yoga have all been used in the past 1000\'s of years to focus this energy.
Crude implementations of it have been used to signify casting times, or needing advanced oratory skills which were basically nothing more than a way to aid in the pronunciation of Matras, which are commonly used in conjunction with meditation to help focus energies.
There are far more branches of skill trees and such that can be added or expanded on in a similar way, that would require research, leveling, and not just someone running around witha stock pile of mana potions.
Spell extenstions are an excellent idea, upkeep and such should be implemented in some way. And the point of having to cast spells over and over is really a pain when the spell duration is short.
The ideas of casting a spell, and it costing an upkeep, or charging factor, which to a point has been implemented in PS as how much energy you want to put into the spell. This is kinda getting OT into spell effects so I\'ll ignore it.
But branches of magic, in trees, instead of by level, I know this sounds very much like Diablo skill trees but, as has been brought it other threads, it\'s makes more sense to learn the basic spells and have them expand, and be able to progress in those spells to a certain point.
This totally deservers more discussion and I don\'t see why one of the best threads I\'ve read through on these forums has died. Keep this one alive.
How could spiritual practice, and research aid in the definition of Magic System Development.
I am a certified Spiritual Healer, and teacher, and there\'s ideas abound. Spit them out, hash out ideas, usually what happens is the threads get rolling and they die. I know it\'s a lot reading, but suck it up. ;)