PlaneShift
Gameplay => Guilds Forum => Topic started by: Moogie on February 26, 2004, 08:19:10 pm
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The other boards are fine, as far as we\'re concerned. Spam is minimal, threads are kept in the correct place, recurrent questions are being deleted. Unless you mean Hydlaa? In which case, read its description. :P
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Moderators will delete obvious spam, overly hateful flames, and cussing
Perhaps you should read the description again. As you do none of those things.[/COLOR]
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Axs- I haven\'t just been complaining. I have actually talked to the moderators personally about the problems on the boards and as usual it is ignored.
Mogura-Spam (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=7981&boardid=19&styleid=3) , Spam (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=7952&boardid=19&styleid=3), Spam, though it was closed eventually (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=7773&boardid=19&styleid=3), Spam (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=7700&boardid=19&styleid=3)
To name a few.
And if you think I am the only one against it- ASM (http://www.antispammersmovement.netfirms.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)
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Xanaroth are you really so stupid? The other thread is for posting rules. Not questions about the rules. It\'s for posting the rules.
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Xanaroth: reply to your post from other thread, which is not place for discussion:
people don\'t know old rules because they weren\'t told, seriously, show me where can you see guild forum rules.
And with new ones, mods would (at least) know what should get deleted according to users
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On MiseTings there is a most excellent rule: 2. Don\'t be a jackass.
So what if you weren\'t allowed to be an idiot on the guilds forums, and idiodic posts were deleted? Wouldn\'t that be nice?
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It would be nice...
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Originally posted by AendarCallenlasse
Axs- I haven\'t just been complaining. I have actually talked to the moderators personally about the problems on the boards and as usual it is ignored.
Mogura-Spam (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=7981&boardid=19&styleid=3) , Spam (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=7952&boardid=19&styleid=3), Spam, though it was closed eventually (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=7773&boardid=19&styleid=3), Spam (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=7700&boardid=19&styleid=3)
To name a few.
And if you think I am the only one against it- ASM (http://www.antispammersmovement.netfirms.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)
Three-quarters of that is from you-know-who.
Is he back yet?
Anyway, people here spam playfully. Why? I dunno, they just do. (It is a crime of which I am guilty)
I guess people just like to talk, hm?
:P
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-Post only if you can add to the conversation
-Treat fellow forum goers with respect
-Do NOT respond to posts that break the first two rules
Pretty simple I think :D
edit: Silly me, I posted this in the wrong thread, could a mod please move it? :P
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Since I\'m not sure if this would qualify as rules exactly...I\'ll post here:
This:
http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=7689&boardid=18&page=10 as well as other examples given here.
It is quite obvious whether or not people are \"clear\" on the rules here...that should not be allowed to happen.
Do your damn job.
EDIT: The last 1.5 pages and a whole lot of in-between junk...not the argument/guild info though
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*whine*... ignore the spam, and go add some of those constructive thoughts you must be wasting on this to something else....
I don\'t get the part you keep brining up that these boards are on the brink of \"spamnation\". It doesn\'t make sense for you to be whining about, since i haven\'t seen it get in the way of any really good \"new\" ideas.. maybe that\'s just me, but still, this whining is becoming just as big a nuisance to me as the \"imaginary\" spam going on...
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Very well, I will try to rule now with an iron fist for a while and delete anything I want. Then when people scream CENSORSHIP! CENSORSHIP! I will back off for a while.
If you have any complaints then bring them to me and I will deal with them then. I\'m not sure how the report button works but I have never received a single report on it about spam or other issues people seem to have.
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We have said from the beginning that Hydlaa Plaza would be much more tolerant of chatter and pointless posting than the other boards.
Also, we tolerate all the pointless arguing in the guilds forum because there isn\'t really anything else to do or talk about as a guild.
Aendar, all your spam examples are from Hydlaa Plaza. Come up with spam examples from General or Wishlist and perhaps I will agree that you have a point and not simply whining, but until then I will keep my current opinion.
- Vengeance
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Venge the forums contain more than two boards. I\'m sure you\'re right, if I looked in either of those boards there would be little spam there. But those boards aren\'t as frequently visited as Hydlaa and the Guilds Forums. And those examples were from Hydlaa because Moogie asked for examples from the Hydlaa. And I disagree with you on the Guilds Forums, there would be plenty to talk about here without all the useless spam around here.
Just because you\'re afraid of scaring away new members doesn\'t mean you have to degrade the forums. I\'ve visited many game forums and they are all crap, PS has the best forums I have ever seen. But my point is if you slack off then the forums will keep getting worse until they\'re exactly like those other forums.
~Your friendly neighborhood elf, Aendar
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I wouldn\'t be able to do a better job. I\'d delete every single post I consider spam. And it\'s not the random spam post that pisses me off, it\'s these threads that created that are noting but spam...in case you didn\'t notice those were the examples that I pointed out. And yeah I spam every now and then but notice how I told everyone in my thread to stop after it started getting out of hand. I don\'t go around spamming whenever possible. Everyone does that and I can put up with that. But not stuff like, as an example, whemy. Every thread he starts is crap, everything he posts is crap. Hell he was given the nickname Forum troll because of this. but is it ever taken care of? Rarely. Only a few threads were closed and that was the extent of the moderation.
And I have pointed this out to the mods as well. I know that they can\'t deal with it all by themselves. They should have seperate moderators for each board. That way the moderator wouldn\'t have to comb through the entire forums. And the devs would be able to concentrate on the game.
We all you don\'t like me and you love to disagree with me whenever possible. And let me ask you a question Xordannnnwhich guild is it that is known throughout PS for their spamming? Don\'t be a hypocrite Xordan. It doesn\'t look nice.
EDIT: Ok I guess it got deleted...
EDIT: Xordan you need to clear out some pms so I can reply.
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Rules are not good unless their enforced...sure, their not clearly stated which is another problem, and always will be...but even posts that are currently deleted, there is no reason for someone to not continue spamming again, or even post the same exact thing...they don\'t get a warning (with a few exceptions of course, as always), there is no threat that if their posts are completely stupid or flames and get deleted that they will get in trouble for it.
Hell, if I were a mod I would have warned myself a long time ago...some of what I say is pretty bad (or at least used to) and outright spam, and it\'s just to see if I get a response for it...none yet
EDIT: I agree with what Dameon said in the other thread, except for the reporting part...
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I\'m trying to understand both parts of the story here, but I keep asking myself one question over and over again:
Forums are of course about exchange of information and, in this case, about the game/pre-alpha \"planeshift\". In everyday life there are so many rules and regulations that it sometimes makes me wanna puke.
On the other hand I can see that too many senseless postings can annoy ppl, hence I understand the reasons why they want it to be stopped. Like in Aendar\'s guild thread (though I did quite some senseless posts there myself).
Is it so hard to use some common sense when it comes to these matters? IMHO these forums are not meant for pure discussion only, like the game they should be mostly for fun, while beeing informational at the same time. Personally I have nothing agains whemy\'s postings at Hydlaa plaza, because they amuse me from time to time ;). Where on the other hand subforums like the guild announcement threads should be kept free of this kind of stuff, and honestly I can understand Aendar getting mad at ppl still posting cr*p after he asked them in a friendly way to stop it.
My suggestion: Instead of bashing ppl for their misbehaviour just ignore them, they\'ll stop by themselves if they get no replies. It\'s hard to have an argument with yourself, you know... ever tried it? (I did, drove me nuts... ;))
If you have any complaints then bring them to me and I will deal with them then. I\'m not sure how the report button works but I have never received a single report on it about spam or other issues people seem to have.
In most forums the mod receives a message (PM or similar) that user xyz reported thread abc as abusive or similar. Nothing more.
PS: At the time of writing I wasn\'t that sober anymore, so if you find any spelling or grammar mistakes, you can keep them. :D Nevertheless, this still is my honest opinion.
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I posted a rule in the rule thread as follows:
Rule: If you do not like what is being posted in a guild\'s forum thread, stop reading it and move on. Non-guild members do not have the right to regulate what is posted in a guild\'s forum as long as it doesn\'t violate decent standards for the entire board; two-sided discussions, spam - whatever the clan permits shall be the one and only rule.
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The moderator\'s intentions for this rules thread are wholesome and good. But, a lot of nonsense has already been posted in here. Therefore, it\'s not going to work. How could anyone think he or she has the right to determine content of another guild\'s forum, haha. It\'s laughable that some do, but kind of scary. Go censor your own guild forum and stop whining about mine. If you don\'t like what I write stop reading it.
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This prompted some comments. I\'ve written my own comments following each one:
Andrew the Programmer (acraig): If you are a serious guild then you should have your own forums set up. These forums should be for those that want to advertise or make annoucements ( ie Guild War announced, New famous member added etc ). Or for guilds looking for help in setting a site up. Other stuff should be on their own guild sites forums.
Ok, cool. That\'s not how it has worked so far, but let\'s try it. However, the downside of this rule is contained in the next comment by Dameon.
Dameon: It is a bit cumbersum, however, if you have to go to every single guild forum to talk to them.
Yup. We won\'t get the kind of traffic coming to our own sites that we get here. Having all the guilds who want a thread here is nice and easy. Bloodclaw Inc. gets a fair number of vistors to our own public forums but it\'s nothing compared to what we get right here.
Axsyrus: Isn\'t this exactly why most of the guild forums have Guest rooms or other forums made for people outside the guild..?
Again, we won\'t get the same traffic. Worse, the sense of community that the guild forums make possible would be lost if people are forced to go hither and yon to read up on the latest news. Despite all the alleged spam (a highly subjective definition is being used for this word, btw), the \"useless\" postings, and all the other things relatively few people are complaining about, the Guilds section provides lots of good info to new and seasoned players. And, it\'s all right here in one place. It\'s like someone invented a near-perfect system where every clan, big or small, gets an equal opportunity to speak to the PlaneShift community.
I know how annoying some people can be with their posts. But consider this: when an airhead barges into your guild forum and fires off an idiotic reply to something, it\'s like he\'s hold up a sign with his IQ on it. This is valuable information to newcomers and people who are looking to join another guild. Another benefit is the entertainment opportunities these guys provide. I\'ve had a lot of fun outwitting some of them - it\'s really shameful how dumb they can be.
I don\'t want the Guild forums to dry up and blow away. There\'s too much good here just as they are. But, if you try to regulate what people can say, these forums will become like ghost towns. How useless. Like it says in my profound rule above, if you don\'t like it, don\'t read it. Honestly, I can\'t understand why people who are offended by the things they read in my guild\'s forum would bother to complain: get the hell outta there! lol. You know what I\'m saying? No one wants you there so leave. :) Am I missing something? I am American, a country with more idiots per square mile than any other country, but I\'m not one of them! :) I actually read books that don\'t say Program Manual on the cover. Help me out, people. Why do some of you get pissed off when a forum post bothers you instead of simply clicking the NEXT link? I am not trying to be an ass here, serious.
Here\'s my rule one more time, then I will be quiet:
Rule: If you do not like what is being posted in a guild\'s forum thread, stop reading it and move on. Non-guild members do not have the right to regulate what is posted in a guild\'s forum as long as it doesn\'t violate decency standards for the entire board; two-sided discussions, spam - whatever the clan permits shall be the one and only rule.
I edited the word decent to decency, that\'s what I meant.
PS: I am glad Pogo thinks the same way drunk and sober. Gotta respect that! :P
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Maxximus: If only everyone thought like you, this wouldn\'t be happening in the first place. :) Unfortunately, it\'s a utopian ideal, and I can\'t see it ever happening. People will always respond, even if they know they shouldn\'t (hello Axsyrus :P remember yesterday? hehe).
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Mogura,
If it\'s true that people won\'t ever think like me, ;( , than we can go another route:
Instead of guild forums that are really just threads, Planeshift3d.com should create real subforums for all guilds (with some kind of minimum qualification requirement for size or \"seriousness\" as a guild...this can be worked out). Each guild can have mod rights in that forum. Posts they don\'t like can deleted. Behavior they don\'t permit can be limited to almost nothing this way. The only rules imposed on each guild by the board administration would be the general rules that all posters on this system must follow, like no racist crap, etc.
I am the administrator for three gaming forums. I am aware of the extra work that users can create for you folks and I recognize that you\'re trying to keep people happy while being fair to all. The solution I propose can go do that for you by making the guilds responsible for what happens or doesn\'t happen in their forums. It takes a small amount of time and effort to set up the software to accommodate new subcategories, then you\'re done. This is the best solution and it doesn\'t cost anyone anything, except an admin who must create the new forums. Guild leaders will be the guild forum mods with the ability to assign others to help out.
What do think about that? :))
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Originally posted by Maxximus
What do think about that? :))
Not a bad idea.
Sounds like government health insurance, nobody knows how it will work out.
Sure it works well some places, but other places it just simply can\'t happen.
I\'m content with seperate guild forums, but I sure ain\'t stoppin\' ya.
(Although, as for how likely it is, I doubt it will occur. :()
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More forums will not help anything - if the people don\'t change then the only way to fix the \"problem\" is to censor everything and no one wants that...
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Hmm, the problems I have with that idea is
a) We don\'t want to be a hoster for forums, your guild should have it\'s own hoster.
b) We will get many more requests for special customizations that we just cannot handle
c) We will get accused of \'favouritism\' when we create a forum for one guild and not for another.
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this is somewhat going wrong way...
the problem is that some people post complete useless stuff that hmm... lack in inteligence...
so why not just use this thing about reporting someone that spams too much, he\'s warned and if that won\'t work, he\'s out. (so far those reports were ignored... at least from what I\'ve seen).
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The issue isn\'t \"manpower\" of the mods or how time-consuming it is. The issue is that there is no agreement on what should be closed/deleted/banned.
We have had 20 posts in this thread about rules, none of which are a serious attempt to come up with new spam definitions.
Everyone agrees that this forum sucks, but that is not the mods\' fault, and the forum can\'t be fixed by modding more. If you disagree, post what you would do differently and prove me wrong.
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Well spam is a hard thing to define...
-Anything that goes severely off-topic in a thread is spam. Sure there may be side-comments or a joke or two thrown in, but that\'s not too far oof-topic.
-Any thread that is started that is obvious spam should be deleted right away, however a \"spam thread\" is harder to define...but I think most people will agree that if the topic is pointless and absolutely moronic it is spam. Or if the topic hasn\'t already been brought up recently in a neighboring thread it can be considered spam. For an example look at any thread Whemy has started.
Personally I don\'t think a person should get a warning. Everyone here knows what spam is and knows that it shouldbn\'t be done. When they realize that their posts get deleted every time they spam they will learn to quit spamming.
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Annah, good luck with the operation.
Andrew wrote:
Hmm, the problems I have with that idea is
a) We don\'t want to be a hoster for forums, your guild should have it\'s own hoster.
b) We will get many more requests for special customizations that we just cannot handle
c) We will get accused of \'favouritism\' when we create a forum for one guild and not for another.
Point a): Most guilds do have their own forum but more people check out the forums here and it\'s very convenient to have all of them in one place. It builds a greater sense of community, too. Why not host forums? There is no cost, is there? Planeshift doesn\'t compensate testers in any material way so why not provide free forums when it costs nothing?
Point b): I can\'t think of many special customizations that people would ask for and realistically expect to get. That does not mean they won\'t ask for them. It doesn\'t mean they will get them, either. Just say, no. What is being proposed by the Adminsitration of the Board is an extraordinary change in the way the Guild section has worked (and worked well) up until now. Realatively few people have complained about \"problems\" that the vast majority of users here don\'t want \"fixed\" because the don\'t view them as problems. Draklar makes a brilliant point when he says use the Report button. Definitely. If the Board administration won\'t create real forums for the guilds then let\'s start using the system that\'s already in place to deal with abusive posting.
Point c): No doubt! If a few people can squeak loud enough to get you to sweep away the Guild forums as we know them, they will have no ethical problem with complaining when you won\'t grant them a guild forum. However, if the guild making the request doesn\'t have a website and 5 members you can say no, and that\'s totally fair. Let those two requirements be the minimum. Simple enough, eh?
SnowWolf doesn\'t want censorship. I agree. But censorship is what we\'ll get if the Board Admins must attend to every complaint and problem in the Guild forums. They don\'t want to do this so their first impulse is to limit posting to announcements only. That won\'t solve the problems, but I understand why they think it will. My proposal, on the otherhand, puts responsibility for content in indivdual forums with the Guild leaders, where it should be. There is no reason why any non-guild posters should be able to censor what is posted in a guild forum...no ethical reason, anyway. These complainers need to attend to their own affairs, not mine and yours. They don\'t have to read posts in my forum if they don\'t want to, and that is the bottom line, that is the whole thrust of what I\'m trying to say here.
Axsyrus says: Really, that\'s just like giving every guild it\'s own forums on the planeshift server.. Ahh, no it is giving them a forum. :) That\'s what I want to happen. That would take the responsibility for what happens in them off the the Board Administration who are doing a good job with a small but overworked staff. Axsyrus does not think there could be a lose of community if the Guild section is fundamentally changed because, I assume from what he wrote, Arcane Order gets a lot of traffic from players not in his guild. Well, I just took a look at the AO forum and it\'s mostly members posting and a small number of others, usually the same people. You know who won\'t look at AO\'s website pub forum? New players, folks checking out Planeshift for the first time, and long-time players who don\'t care what AO is up to (and people who can\'t read black type on a purple background! lol). The first place I looked on the Board when I was considering playing Planeshift was the Gen Discussion, then I check out the Guild forums. I spent a long time in there reading every guild\'s posts. I learned a lot that way. That would never have happened if I had to go to 20 different urls.
I\'ve always tried to be an advocate for Planeshift in my short time playing, not just build up my own guild and worry about my own little part in this open project. Otherwise, I\'d never be in here writing blog-length posts trying to explain why changing the Guild forums is penny-wise and pound-foolish. However, some of the squeakiest wheels that complained about \"spam\" posts don\'t do jack squat. In fact, they are real turn offs to potential players. Some of them don\'t even play, just hang around the forums all day and complain. It doesn\'t seem fair that they get accommodated when something basically good has to be lost to do it.
I\'m losing my desire to be polite now so I\'ll stop blogging here. :P
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However, some of the squeakiest wheels that complained about \"spam\" posts don\'t do jack squat. In fact, they are real turn offs to potential players. Some of them don\'t even play, just hang around the forums all day and complain. It doesn\'t seem fair that they get accommodated when something basically good has to be lost to do it.
First of all not everyone at PS can play. Remember the state PS is in at the moment permits only a select few computers to allow it to run.
Second of all the game itself has nothing to do with this discussion. The discussion has to do with the forums, therefore the people that are around the forums the most are the most qualified people to complain and suggest ideas.[/COLOR]
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If it ain\'t broke, don\'t fix it. CHanges could make the forums better, but they could also make it worse. If there\'s nothing wrong, it\'s best just to be satisfied with that. You can keep whining, I can\'t change that, but you should know that it\'s stupid.
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my definition of spam (and yes i know im stating my own guilt here)
*A thread that does not have the sole purpose of reporting an item of guild news
*A reply that does not respond to the original topic being discussed
*A reply made solely to insult somebody personally
*A reply/thread that is solely a repetition of a previously stated item/idea (not nescessarily word for word) that can be located easily or is well known to the forum populace
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Originally posted by AendarCallenlasse
First of all not everyone at PS can play. Remember the state PS is in at the moment permits only a select few computers to allow it to run.
Second of all the game itself has nothing to do with this discussion. The discussion has to do with the forums, therefore the people that are around the forums the most are the most qualified people to complain and suggest ideas.
Aendar, your first statement above is baffling to those of us who do play. I see lots of people playing. Maybe you\'re not one of them. Ask around, or PM Andrew the Programmer to ask how many unique machines have played PS in the last 90 days. Then, come back here and tell us again that only a few people can play, unless, of course, you discover you\'re wrong. Or, save some time and take my word for it: more than a few people can and do play PS. I don\'t know what kind of computers they use. Don\'t care, either.
Statement #2 is what got me laughing. This discussion has everything to do with those of us who run guilds and actually play the game. Do I really need to explain to you why people who only read this forum need to get a life and stop bothering those of us who have practical concerns like recruitment, education of new players, and the efficient means to announce guild-related news to the widest possible player audience? All of the forum creatures in here complaining are like dead light bulbs that should be replaced as soon as possible. If you\'re gonna create heat you better throw some light at the same time, otherwise, take a hike.
/me bangs his head on the table in disbelief.
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ok, I really wonder what does ingame have to do with spamming on boards...
And yes, Aendar is completely right.
Ones that spend here most time know a little better I think.
And most of all, they are people that were here before you and they see how it\'s changing
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First of all there are over 7000 members on the PS forums, sure at least a three fourths of those 7000 aren\'t active but there are still 7000 members. Less than a hundred players are active in the game. You do the math.
Second of all. I, too, run aguild and I know the importance of guild announcements and recruiting.
Do I really need to explain to you why people who only read this forum need to get a life and stop bothering those of us who have practical concerns
Those people who only read the forums are those who are truly dedicated to PS and the community. I\'ve been here for two years and I only been active in the game for the past month. Would you say I\'m useless (Yes I know you would). No. The fact that I have stayed here on only the forums shows that I care about the forums and what goes on here.[/COLOR]
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Draklar, there would not be any spam in these forum is each guild had control over its own forum, including the right to warn and ban posters who they deem to be spammers. Does it make sense?
There also wouldn\'t be any question about what is and what is not spam if the guilds had control over their own forums; they would decide for themselves.
If the guild had control there would be no need for arriving at a happy medium that satisfied everyone, no legalistic arguments about how closely or how loosely rules were being interpreted, none of the crap.
This is essentially what I\'ve been trying to say in the last several posts.
The details of how to censor these forums appropriately so that they conform to a definition of content given by the Board Admins is the wrong discussion. There is also something very wrong with the people here who claim that the forums don\'t work, especially when it\'s people who don\'t play the game, and who don\'t recruit and train new members in the game. This whole board exists for players, not forum posters who only expect to be playing Planeshift at some future date, if ever. These Guild forums and some others are practical tools that guild leaders use for real purposes, for practical tasks. The only problem the Guild forums have is non-players complaining that they don\'t want to read \"spam\". Remove those few folks from the the equation and you won\'t have a problem. I think they have a right to be here and post messages, but when they along with a few real players can screw up a great organizing tool for the rest of us, it\'s makes no sense.
Last thing: It doesn\'t matter how long a person has be a registered member of this board, or how many posts he or she has made. All that matters is what they say here and now.
I\'m surprised that you would agree with Aenadar, Draklar. If this forum loses it\'s liveliness and fun so that admins won\'t have to deal with constant whining from a small number of people, you\'ve got to ask yourself a question: cui bono?
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well I\'d rather agree with someone that doesn\'t want spam, instead of someone that says that the real problem are people that don\'t want spam.
and by the way: I am PS player since... 9 months... and I as well don\'t want people spamming here
and I asked few people ingame, they said they don\'t even want to come here because of forums\' horrible state.
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Maxximus:
I think this will solve nothing. If there\'s still a common guild forum, this one will be spammed as before. Subforums will be a pain to set up, will be either spammed if moderators don\'t care or ignored because nobody spost inside. People will continue to post in the common forum to gain more visibility.
If you want to discuss serious thing that concern only one guild, use their own forum. Otherwise, post in common forum so everyone can see it. I don\'t browse all forums of all guilds. I don\'t want to browse an hundred subforums.
AendarCallenlase: Do you *really* care that much about spam? At the topic (and the poster) you can often see whether it\'ll be spam or interesting discussion. Don\'t read spam posts if you don\'t want to.
Draklar: forums horrible state? You mean that a majority of players in game don\'t want to come here because there\'s a few spam posts? Or is it just a small minority? I know that we must try to make all the people happy but it\'s an utopia. For example, i don\'t like your font color, others like, will i create a whine post just to start a discussions about colors in posts? No, because other like i don\'t *really* care about it.
Acraig/Vengeance: please don\'t moderate the forums more heavily. I like the current state.
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Aendar,
7000 people registered in this forum? Wow. Big number. Did you know that there are 11.5 Million people living in Cuba? Can you guess what the two numbers have in common? Answer: both are not relevent to what we\'re debating.
Who told you there were less than 100 unique players on the PS server in the past 90 days? Are you sure he said less than 100?
You said: Those people who only read the forums are those who are truly dedicated to PS and the community.
No, Aendar, the Moon is not made out of cheese; we\'ve been there in a spaceship and have proof.
Come on, dude, read what you just said! What about the folks who have been running the map collecting crystals, testing the game build, reporting bugs? There is no game and community without us. But without you and the others who only post high theory in a forum, development would continue just fine. PS doesn\'t need you and never did. The day PS is complete and available for download people will come in droves...and they won\'t even know you were around in the begining posting forum messages. They won\'t care even if we show them an archive of all the many gems there are to read. They will be too busy playing the game to care.
Welcome to Planeshift, Aendar. I\'m glad you finally decided to lend a hand testing.
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Originally posted by Draklar
well I\'d rather agree with someone that doesn\'t want spam, instead of someone that says that the real problem are people that don\'t want spam.
and by the way: I am PS player since... 9 months... and I as well don\'t want people spamming here
and I asked few people ingame, they said they don\'t even want to come here because of forums\' horrible state.
I said so much more than that, Draklar, so much more, and you know it. You have chosen to ignore the rest and amplify a single detail instead dealing with the broad idea I presented. Come on, man, get serious and reply to what I\'ve said here, the whole thing, not some small part taken out of context.
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Axsyrus? Hmm... given it looks like a reply to my post and Axsyrus hasn\'t post here since a good amount of time:
It\'s ok, i understand what you meant. The problem is that you\'ll find people everywhere who like clean boards, i agree. But others like me enjoy active forums where you can read other things that boring serious things everywhere. You won\'t be able to make everywhere happy.
And seriously, the state of the Guild forum is a lot better now than a few month ago. Cabal has stop his forum-wide posting... Even whemyfield seems to have stop posting... About whemy, i would show what i call smart and funny moderating: the change of his forum title (remember that spammer like having a good post count and forum title) was both funny and non-censorship-like and succeed in stop his spamming.
You want forum even more clean? Forums where you can talk for hours about a small boring point of settings in a two-sided argument with a bunch of true but useless points? I don\'t.
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Aendar,
7000 people registered in this forum? Wow. Big number. Did you know that there are 11.5 Million people living in Cuba? Can you guess what the two numbers have in common? Answer: both are not relevent to what we\'re debating.
Who told you there were less than 100 unique players on the PS server in the past 90 days? Are you sure he said less than 100?
You said: Those people who only read the forums are those who are truly dedicated to PS and the community.
No, Aendar, the Moon is not made out of cheese; we\'ve been there in a spaceship and have proof.
Come on, dude, read what you just said! What about the folks who have been running the map collecting crystals, testing the game build, reporting bugs? There is no game and community without us. But without you and the others who only post high theory in a forum, development would continue just fine. PS doesn\'t need you and never did. The day PS is complete and available for download people will come in droves...and they won\'t even know you were around in the begining posting forum messages. They won\'t care even if we show them an archive of all the many gems there are to read. They will be too busy playing the game to care.
Welcome to Planeshift, Aendar. I\'m glad you finally decided to lend a hand testing.
You have yet to substaniate anything you have said with facts. You\'re answer to every point of my post is some ridiculous dribble...[/COLOR]
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Originally posted by AendarCallenlasse
You have yet to substaniate anything you have said with facts. You\'re answer to every point of my post is some ridiculous dribble...
Even if i don\'t agree completely with Maxximus here, his post is not a ridiculous dribble. This adds nothing to the argument to simply reject the other point.
My opinion is that Players aren\'t better than Forum poster and Forum posters aren\'t better than Players. Players help devs to find bugs. Forum posters give ideas (when they don\'t spam and don\'t whine about spam). Both motivate the devs because they create an active community (motivation is really important in an open source project - even more IMHO than help for testing).
Maxximus: You said Forum posters will be ignored when a full game is released. Is that a reason to say they were useless?
First of all there are over 7000 members on the PS forums, sure at least a three fourths of those 7000 aren\'t active but there are still 7000 members. Less than a hundred players are active in the game. You do the math.
Less than a third of the 7000 are actives. I\'d say 1/10 in the best case. And if you check here: Player list (http://planeshift.fragnetics.com/players.php), you\'ll see that more than 100 are online per day. (646 when i wrote this post). So we came with more players online than on forums.
But whatever, this is not my main point: I can do the math. And that prove what?
That your opinion is more worth than Maxximus one? I think i don\'t even need to reply to this
That forums are more important than the game? Let\'s change Planeshift goals then: \'This game aims to provide clean and sane board for everyone, freely. Some illustrations on these forums are created through Planeshift subprojects called Molecular Blue and Crystal Blue\'
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That forums are more important than the game? Let\'s change Planeshift goals then: \'This game aims to provide clean and sane board for everyone, freely. Some illustrations on these forums are created through Planeshift subprojects called Molecular Blue and Crystal Blue\'
Again people are bringing the game into this discussion. We are talking about the forums and what can be done to improve them. Forget the game for now. The point of this discussion is controlling the amount of spam on the PS boards....not which is more important, the forums or the game.[/COLOR]
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this thread appears to have turned into \'who has the most right to post here\'
maybe i should summarise
*Some ppl want sepperate forums for each guild - A member of staff has said he doesnt want to do that.. not likely to happen so prolly best to not go on about it
*Lots of people keep saying that the mods should act on complaints... they say they cant unless they have a definition of spam to work with (a reasonable request i think).... maybe we should do what they originally asked and agree on a definition of spam so they can work fairly and effectively
*This post has rapidly turned into a perfect example of spam.... arguing over who cares most about PS or who has more right to post is OFF-TOPIC.
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Exactly. I think though that the discussion is over unless anyone has any new relevant information to post.
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Originally posted by Deddarus
this thread appears to have turned into \'who has the most right to post here\'
maybe i should summarise
*Some ppl want sepperate forums for each guild - A member of staff has said he doesnt want to do that.. not likely to happen so prolly best to not go on about it
*Lots of people keep saying that the mods should act on complaints... they say they cant unless they have a definition of spam to work with (a reasonable request i think).... maybe we should do what they originally asked and agree on a definition of spam so they can work fairly and effectively
*This post has rapidly turned into a perfect example of spam.... arguing over who cares most about PS or who has more right to post is OFF-TOPIC.
Deddarus: No, this has turned into a discussion, not spam. We are now examining the logic and validity of what has been stated by a few people. This is how people debate. If you find this disturbing I suggest that you stop reading and come back later when the discussion may be simpler to understand. And, your \"summary\" of what is happing here is a rather crude and slavish promotion of your own proposals, not a summary at all.
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Just reading this thread, one might think the forums are spam-riddled junk. Aendar managed to come up with some spam threads, but overall, I\'d like to hear what exactly everyone\'s problem is with these forums.
And as for forum sections for individual guilds, that\'s why guilds have their own forums.
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Hopefully this spawns some new ideas, and helps this thread get back on track.
Note that I haven\'t posted in the guild thread before (I personally feel that a lot of posts are useless in it), so my opinion is biased, and my suggestion might be extreme. Comments/Additions are always welcome :)
Definition of spam:
1. Posts that add nothing to the topic, or start causing the posts following become off topic.
Eg. Player says something about guild then says *cookies and pies for everyone!*
Inevitably follows is the spam: \"Me like pie!\" and soforth.
Not that I have a problem with anyone liking pie ;), but unless their post contains some other text, that has SOMETHING to do with the guild, it is spam.
Eg #2. People who say things such as \"I agree with ^^\" or \"Yup\" (without anything else in the post), or something along those lines. IMO, it adds nothing to the discussion (if someone can think of an example where this is false, feel free to let me know), and is therefore spam.
2. Derogatory comments and/or personal attacks.
I always find it disheartening when a new guild starts up, and people start bashing it immediately becauese the person is a \"noob\" or whatever. Posts which encourage this new member to expand on their rules section, or ask to add a website is fine, but other posts which kill the guild even before it gets off the ground obviously are not.
3. Two person debates. While others may disagree on this, I think that this should just be kept to IM progs, and/or PMs.
Possibilities for Enhancing the Guild forum:
Each guild can only make ONE thread. It announces the guilds existance, discusses their rules, alignment, etc. and shows a link to their site. Responses in this thread should ONLY contain comments about the site, people asking questions about a particular section (Ie, rules for the guild), people asking for additional info, etc. If the guild members wish, they can add the welcoming posts for new members etc.
Basically, this thread should be kept stricly on topic for the guild, and more heavily moderated than my next suggestion. As well, the thread \"Searching for a Guild?\" could contain links to each guilds site and their thread in their own post if guilds are worryed about their single thread going off the first page.
\"The War Thread\"
Basically, a new sticky thread (if neccessary) would be made for all of the conflicts between guilds. Want to say how amazing your guild is, and how you are going to destroy any opposing guilds? Say it here. This would be moderated less strictly, only with the spam rules I mentioned above. This should remove the overly repetative posts that have been made in some of the threads, where some guilds have stated that they are all powerful and such over and over again. (No I\'m not pointing fingers ;) )
I suppose that if this thread became to huge to quick, it could become its own subtopic (like the PK thread for the wish list, but we would have to see how popular it is first :P ).
\"I can\'t decide on a Guild\" thread. (Possibly a sticky?)
Basically, this would be a thread for those who have already read the thread for searching for guilds, but still feel the need to post \"I\'m looking to join a guild, but want to talk to the leaders first\" sort of thread. Here, individuals could post about their character plans, then leaders could direct them to their threads, etc. through PMs.
Well, this is long as is, and I\'m out of ideas for now :P.
Edit: Whoops... I guess this was intended for the new guilds forum rules thread, which I mistook as this one... ugh. I shouldn\'t post when I\'m tired. :D
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I don\'t think there\'s anything wrong with two person debates. It just means that nobody else feels like participating. It means that other people can add if they want, and their opinions are made public. However, if it degrades into flames and personal insults, then there is nothing it can do for the community, nothing people can say but \"shut up\", and it has to be stopped.
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Looks like the new rules basically forbid anyone from Cabal to ever post anywhere besides the Plaza.
So, sounds good to me.
And now for my 5 cents. We need more mods, like myself, to keep the public at bay, and moderate good behaviour. But more mods is certainly the solution to the problem of spam, that and public bannings.
In communist Russia, they shot every 10th person to set an example for the rest, so if we randomly ban like 10 ppl, that would show the public who still has the power.
But seriously, bannings=good. The person would get like 3 strikes, and BAM, out! Consider it.
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Your sig looks like crap with all that white space...
I think we have plenty of mods. As Venge says, it\'s not about firepower, it\'s about what they do with it. But, as I said before, people are where spam comes from, and if you get rid of a few certain people, then there is a lot less spam. However, right now, I can\'t think of anyone who should be banned, but it should definatelt be used as a motivational thing. \"Bring it down a notch before you get banned...\" Oh, wait, they already do that. In that case, these forums kick ass.
So, anyway, that\'s why you\'re wrong.