PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zephyrus on March 02, 2004, 10:25:02 am
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By my calcultions Diaboli make the best healers as they have the largest charisma bonus... But Diaboli are meant to be cruel and inhumane and despise blessed objects, but healing is all about blessings and kindness right? or does the +4 mana points that the Lemurs get outwiegh the +3 charisma of the Diaboli? Am i missing something?
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The Diaboli race has the highest Charisma bonus on creation(+3). The crystal and the dark way both rely on this stat, so you would be right when you said the Diaboli race would be the best(in the start) in the crystal way compared to the other races. The crystal way isn\'t just healing however, there are offensive attacks in it too. There\'s also a large part of healing in the blue way.
And maybe you even need blessed items to heal people, so that would make Diaboli pretty much useless for it.
PS. it doesn\'t say Diaboli are cruel and inhumane, their body just rejects blessed object because the gods mutated them this way or something. Diaboli are: \" a happy, bustling, malicious race, quite unreliable.\".
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exactly, im a more light sided character however it is well known that i will choose a diaboli as my final character race. it seems im stuck in an endukai\'s body at the moment, however...
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Originally posted by Axsyrus
malicious race
thats exactly my point...
malicious
\\Ma*li\"cious\\, a. [Of. malicius, F. malicieux, fr. L. malitiosus. See Malice.] 1. Indulging or exercising malice; harboring ill will or enmity.
I grant him bloody, . . . Sudden, malicious, smacking of every sin That has a name. --Shak.
2. Proceeding from hatred or ill will; dictated by malice; as, a malicious report; malicious mischief.
3. (Law)With wicked or mischievous intentions or motives; wrongful and done intentionally without just cause or excuse; as, a malicious act.
Hardly the stereotypical calm tranquil healer type
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oops, sorry :P
I always guess words by reading the context.. \" a happy, bustling, bloodthirsty race, quite unreliable.\" <-- weird :P
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Just because the majority of the race is said to behave in a malicious manner it doesn\'t have to apply for each and every one of them... You can be a diaboli who cares about others for all I care, it\'s all about roleplaying..
An example is Drizzt the famous drow ranger from the forgotten realms.. drow are generally evil, Drizzt isn\'t..
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It all is about RP. You can play a Kran mage, a lemur fighter and so on. It all relies on the player...
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Who said you couldn\'t be a healer when playing a diaboli, it just would be weird if they\'re the BEST of all races.. That was what this discussion was about.
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Yes I am a D&d\'er myself, but my point is most races are geared towards their \'norm\' in the case of kran that norm is a big lumbersome dumb warrior. and while the player may choose to RP a magic user he will suffer penalties for doing so.
In the case of Diaboli the stereotypical role of a healer seems to be a polar opposite of their races generalisation, and yet of all the races they are the most efficient at healing.
I am not saying this is a problem, merely that it is a curious element of the game... In fact to be honest i am quite glad that Planeshift is breaking this stereotype; not all healers are at one with the nature spirits.
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A Diaboli cleric would use there healing powers to prolong the suffering of others they didnt like.... \"a full heal?... Nooooo a small heal to keep you on the brink of death\". Dont forget that Evil doesnt mean stupid :P , an Evil person tends to do what ever it takes for personal gain, if healing others so that they are around long enough to keep you alive means they can get out ahead, they will do it. Its just when you pose a threat to there gain or are no longer of any use you have to start worrying.
Malicious in my dictionary gives \'evil-disposed; evil minded; Spiteful; Rancorous\'
Which to me would mean they where evily inclined and not particualry happy people but not openly nasty, rather easy to anger and get on the bad side off, and usualy looking out for only number one. Considering there homeworld this wouldnt be surpriseing. On there harsh world the healing arts would be rather vital, more of a \"I need\" than a \"I need it for you\" thing. For Survival rather than Compassion.
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Ever heard of a game called NWN? It\'s a DnD based computer game which also has multiplayer capabilities.
Here\'s the problem that Drizzt caused: People read the books, and thought Drizzt was really cool (I did too). Some people decided to play online as Drizzt, the good Dark elf. But when other people saw them, they flamed them. So then they decided to play good dark elves.
Long story short, it all ended up with Dark Elves (which are feared in Faerun) becomming socially acceptable. It was rarer to find an evil dark elf than a good dark elf. In fact, people were actually defending the rights of dark elves to be treated like everyone else.
What I\'m trying to say is: If too many people play characters which stray from the norm, you end up creating a new norm, which sometimes doesn\'t make sense. It had arrived to a point where everyone on NWN was straying from the norm and this resulted in A LOT of half-dragon half-drow half-demon half-vampire people running around. All with disturbed pasts and super powers, of course.
Let\'s not try to let that happen here. Diaboli players, please try to let your character be malicious. Don\'t try to play good Diaboli....Please.
Now...As for Diaboli\'s extra charm. Just because their extra charm makes them good at healing, doesn\'t mean they *will* heal. And just because they\'d make good spellcasters, doesn\'t mean they\'re all spellcasters. Some of them would make excellent rogues (using extra charisma to distract people while they pick their pockets).
And since this thread is about Diaboli, I\'d like to raise a question: Do you think Diaboli are overpowered? (Good physique, high charisma, etc?)
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/me throws a bottle of holy water at a diaboli...
*watches the bonfire*
No, they have a big weakness... which evens it out.
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it would be quite ironic if the level 10 heal (or whatever) involed a alchemical component of holy water, that would deter would be diaboli healers i am sure...
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Ever heard of a game called NWN? It\'s a DnD based computer game which also has multiplayer capabilities.
Here\'s the problem that Drizzt caused: People read the books, and thought Drizzt was really cool (I did too). Some people decided to play online as Drizzt, the good Dark elf. But when other people saw them, they flamed them. So then they decided to play good dark elves.
The main problem there is people dont have much imagination. WotC and TSR before them, have steadily overdone the drows coverage since they first appeared, it tends to happen all the time with popular race or creatures in PnP. There involvement becomes so saturated they no longer have any of there old appeal. \"Oh look a drow!\"..\"yeah yeah seen one, you seen em all\". That also goes for mindflayers, beholders, dragons, and Devils/Demons also. \"oh its a Barbazu... again\" \"Demogorgon!... err didnt we kill it already?\".
These dark races have been brought out into the lime light so long and so often they just aint as scarey as the used to be. Drittz should have been a one off, unfortunately hes now and has been for a whle a envogue type character.
Now thats why i prefer the Planescape and Spelljammer settings. :P those out of the norm character types are just another poor superpowered berk among other more super superpowered berks that know alot more chant than the clueless primer Drittz\'s.
People only play half-dragons alot in NWN since its a class with some of the best perks, human beings are innate mini maxers. Me I play pure Wizards (no multi-classing of anykind) in NWN and am often called weird :P then I go on to demonstrate to them just what that means in terms of raw monster burning power.
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Well, to be original I played one of the ordinary PC classes....A gnome :D
The problem is that games tend to become more competitive and that automatically leads you to create your Half-dragon Half-thiefling Half-Drow.
Do you think that might happen in Planeshift? I mean, it surely can\'t, at the moment, but when combat and other features start to develop, don\'t we have the risk of everyone playing a Superclass (In NWN that was Half-dragon assasin or whatever. I never messed around with Prestige classes :P ) so that they have that edge?
P.S. I am now a c007 n00b. So nobody forget it ;)
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I noticed that Xalthar was the first person to make a logical point about this; people can do whatever they want. It\'s all about Roleplaying.
My friends and I play D&D, and we allow players to stray from the \'norm\' as it were, if they can adequately RP it. You have the story and the talent to use an abnormal character, so be it.
As for penalties, what can I say other than. \'you take the good with the bad\'?
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as soon as i finish re downloading PS i will have a diabloi char but just cause they look cool and are exactlly what im looking for and i like to stick to the norm in games in every other game i have cause it lets me keep a grasp on what he should do in a certian position
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um sorry to dissapoint you arch but diaboli are not currently selectable characters. thier character models are hopefully going to be released in Crystal Blue. If you ask when cb will be released, you will be shot on sight.
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dam wat about the half diablo and half elf thing is that out?
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You can\'t combine races in PS, well at least not yet.
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yes there is a race that is a mix of diaboli and elf. i cant remember the name but bassically hes a giant red dude with a loincloth, a beard, and an awfull smile :P. adeli... im not going to say anything...
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... Ynnwn :P
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Hello everyone, this would be my first post here, after about a month of browsing the forums I feel it\'s time to throw in my two cents. Class mixing can be okay when done in moderation. The trend these days seems to lean towards playing a charactor with conflicting moral and social classes ie. a Paladin aligned any other way but absolute good (least that was the way we played). During rare occasions though, allowing a player to assume the role of a multi-class can add to the play. The DM though would usually apply a penalty to the charactor to offset. I myself along with the DM created a cursed Rogue, without the knowledge of the rest of the party. Basically the curse affected everyone else in the party but the Rogue, hilarity ensued, until they figured it out. Sorry got a little off topic there, I guess it boils down to, class mixing should be a rare thing, and well thought out. just my two cents.
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The point I was trying to make was that Diaboli, make the best healers, despite their race being in contradicition to the generalised image of do good healers.
But I do infact think this is a good thing, games too often follow the Tolkien made stereotypes. Who says elves have to be noble and proud? Who says Humans always have to be the jack-of-all-trades race? Who says orcs have to be big, dumb, mega-agressive warriors? Why are agility and power always mutualy exclusive?
I dont think Planeshift is going to be the game to break all these deep roated stereotypes that RPGs seem to have adopted as the norm (In planeshift humans are the jack of all trades, and the kran are basically glorified orcs).
However planeshift does have many original elements and does seem to be bending (not yet breaking) the \'rules\' of rpgs.
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Hmm break the stereotypes too much, and you won\'t attract the die-hard RPers. Besides, these stereotypes have been proven to work.
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Die hard RPers are adaptable, its the casual RPers that wouldnt like it
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but if humans are jack of all trades and kran are orcs what are klyroses?
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Ynnwn one of those are they out ??? it isnt a combined race is it cause its in the primary race list
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actually this is what is written in the list of races:
Ynnwn
Physical Traits
The Ynnwn race is a strange but relatively frequent crossing between a Diabolo and an Elf.
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About Diaboli Healers:
Yes I suppose they\'d be good at healing but would have no care to heal. Just like if you\'re good at moving silently and putting knives in people\'s back, doesn\'t mean you\'re going to do it, because it\'s against your morals.
Of course, an alternative is to make each spell a skill which you need to practice so as to be good at.
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I don\'t see why diaboli healers are such a surprise. Think about it, it doesn\'t matter how good or evil you are, you still need healing. Healing yourself or your friend doesn\'t make you good. I think the problem is, too many people associate Healers with being these saintly characters. Stereotype.
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yes what about a cleric who heals for the purpose of evil, perhaps using his knowlege of light and healing to help the dead conquer the living world? doesnt sound to far fetched to me. I mean if you know the stuff your enemy can cast, you also know how to prevent against it and in the case of healing you can use it to heal your own army too. Diabolis are the way to go IMO, although it would be kind of nice to be the only diaboli on the block. You all go play your klyros\' or whatever.. ill stick to the Diaboli.
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Hmm yes what if you had a spell that changes the way you recieve damage to:
Get damaged --> Gain HP
Heal --> Lose HP
Then use a spell called \"Full Healing\" which cures all your HP :P
P.S. This is taken from Seymore in FFX....
Edit: Fixed some silly spelling mistakes.
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Hmm thats, insteresting...heh cant wait to cast it on some unexpecting newbie and watch him kill himself by drinking healing potions muahahaha :D
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Originally posted by whemyfield
yes what about a cleric who heals for the purpose of evil, perhaps using his knowlege of light and healing to help the dead conquer the living world?
isnt that a necromancer?
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nyah... a necromancer isn\'t really in contact with any divine presence, he just uses his skills in magic to reanimate the dead, without divine aid..
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how is healing divine?
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it isn\'t. w/e. I wanted one of the green elf dudes, but i have to stay happy with the cat-man.
LOL
Duh duh dun duh duh dun CAT-MAN!
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Healing (In DnD) can be either divine or magical. Divine spells come as gifts from gods, while magical spells come from within the caster.
Healing your own army? Pah! If the fools were unskilled enough to get hurt, let them suffer for their weakness!
That\'s what an evil person would say. Sure, he could heal party members, but why should he? I mean, it\'s their fault for getting hurt in the first place, right?
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Just thought I would take this oportunity to put a link to my claim to fame. It is in reguards to character class issue and it was one of my first posts.
http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=4983&boardid=11&sid=4f249b1223c058c0b47b19350bc17479
Originally posted by Vengeance
I think, Derwoodly, that could be possibly the worst idea ever on this forum. :-)
Congratulations. :-)
Seriously, if anything we will take more familarity out of the races, not put more in.
- Venge
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Why here?
Hmm maybe yo\'re trying to say that the Diaboli are beginning to sound like Dark Elves and we shouldn\'t be comparing half-elves to Ynnwn?
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Originally posted by karakth
That\'s what an evil person would say. Sure, he could heal party members, but why should he? I mean, it\'s their fault for getting hurt in the first place, right?
yes, if you are extremely stupid and dont like your army very much, and if you are suicidal, go ahead, dont heal your army
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It\'s not that an evil person wouldn\'t care about his army. An evil person usually bullies himself to get to the top, killing people along the way. Why should he waste his energies on those that are below him who allowed themselves to get hurt? Better if they don\'t survive, if they have a weakness.
P.S. : Neither I or my character think or act like this, I\'m just getting into the head of an evil guy.
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Originally posted by The Gumster
how is healing divine?
In most RPGs (computer games and pen and paper) healers tend to be clerics, hence divine.
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I posted the link, because I am very much in favor of sticking to stereotypes. Karakth, you said that straying from stereotypes would discourage Roleplayers. I agree. If PS wants to have red demonic looking characters in it, then they should be prepared to have them roleplayed as \"evil\".
An easy character for me to roleplay is the overly zealous but not very bright warrior. I can type in fragments, and call everything evil that way.
Evil healing? Hummph, I say.
Evil warriors are better of dead! And in a shallow grave. To be \"healed\" with evil magic is worse than death!. If my hand was healed with evil magic I would cut it off with my good one!
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Well, it\'s good to be orignial, but within certain bounds. So I\'m not saying \"Take the stereotype and do this.\" Just make the races somewhat familiar, at least until the idea is grasped. Then you can use revelations on a race\'s past to change.
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Keeping things simple sounds like a good idea to me. Familiarity is a definate plus when trying to roleplay a character. I personally would pick Human elf of dwarf characters to play, but that is just me.
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i would rather pick something that is more original (like klyros :D) that is why i pick klyros (and because they rule! :D) anyway i am getting off topic
Zephyrus, you completely failed to answer my question
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/ic
Errr, on second thought, a shallow grave would be a bad idea. It should be a very deep grave, with a large heavy tombstone, so they can not come back!
/ooc
Gum,
Zeph did answer...
divine = Clerics and Clerics = healing; thus Healing = divine.
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i must agree healing is divine
but evil is not killing or gaining power
or gain only for ur self
its all in torturing others
make them suffor
death should be a releasement not a punishment
i mean whats more evil
stabbing a sword thrue a elven head
or force feeding him a potion of eternal live
and tying him to a wall and curseing his flesh
so he will rot untill eternity
PAIN PAIN PAIN
thats the key to evil
-Satyrulak
scourge of the sky
blighter of the grazelands
Master of the plaque , and
keeper of the curse of flesh