PlaneShift
Gameplay => Guilds Forum => Topic started by: Yann on April 03, 2004, 02:26:18 pm
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Yes, i know that for many persons it\'s a great piece of news, even if they will probably post here saying something like \"oh too bad...\".
And for the others, it wil really be a bad news.
Why have I decided to disband the guild I created ?
Ok so imagine... Would you enjoy being spied and betrayed all the time?
Yes, I disband because I am bored of all that spying community which has nothing better to do than spoiling the fun of a secret guild.
I know, it\'s my fault too, because I didn\'t manage to run correctly and keep the members and stuff secret. I\'ve tried my best, and it almost worked. But now I am too annoyed to find out that the ones I considered friends are just spies here to give out info about my guild.
I now know it will never end, and that a secret guild is a bad idea.
So I thank:
- All the guilds who have sent me spies
- All the spies, sent, or who came by their own (I will not give names here... for the moment)
- All the ones who thought/think I didn\'t know they were spies
- And all the ones I didn\'t discover.
Thank you all very much.
I am sorry but I can\'t stand this community anymore.
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There once was a time when the word spy was non-existent in this community. Nowadays it seems every guild has to have them even though it gives them no advantage yet. Didn\'t like you much but it\'s a shame to see another guild go for this reason. Good luck on whatever you decide to do in the future.
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I\'m sorry to hear this Yann, I really am.
I wish that there was something I can do, but unfortunately, I fear that this is just the beginning.
I agree 100% with Yann, this community is in different aspects alot worse than for example Counter-Strike\'s community.
Spying, destroying, hacking and all that shit has nothing to do with a mmorpg.
If you feel that you need to do the above to be competitive, please turn of your computer, turn on the lights, open the frontdoor, walk outside.
The sun, it burns!
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oh damn, sorry to see that happen, Yann :(
I already stated my opinion about all this \"spying\" business. Too bad some people aren\'t able to understand it... :(
Anyway, didn\'t know you were under that big preasure of it... I suppose it couldn\'t be kept on.
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Too bad, but is it worth quiting over some fools?
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Hmm, sorry to hear that Planeshift will lose a good (as in well-put together) guild. Do you have any idea what you will do now?
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It is a ashame. This should not have happened. As I do not see many things wrong with spying, a limit is definetly needed. To cause a whole guild destruction because of the sheer number of spies is rediculous. I am sorry this happened Yann. There is no way you would reconsider?
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what do you expect? This community filled with jerkish people won\'t let secret guild stay secret. The more that like Caldazar said this spying has nothing to do with mmorpg.
Finding no fun in running a guild, because you have to worry about spies all the time... I would do same thing... :rolleyes:
a guild that already gained nice position in the world of Yliakum destroyed by idiocy of the community... should make some people think about what they\'re doing.
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Yann said it best, \"I am sorry but I can\'t stand this community anymore.\"
Just another example of the sad state of affairs we\'re in. Its sad indeed a relatively good guild must disband over this sort of thing... It, however, happens; its beyond our grasp...
Best of luck to you, Yann, in where life takes you.
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I\'m so sorry to hear this :(
I didn\'t realise things had got so bad Yann, it\'s pretty maddening X(
But don\'t forget you do have many friends here who\'d be very sad to see you go and are more than happy to lend their support in any way they can, don\'t let the idiots get you down ;)
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Woah....
I\'m sorry to hear this, despite the fact that I didn\'t know you well.
Of course, to try and keep spies out involves a lot of trouble.
The only real cure would be to compile an IP list, and most people don\'t want that done...
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Originally posted by Yann
Happy now?
No.
And Monk, alt!=spy. And me and some other people have been compiling an IP list. If you want to join in...
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Originally posted by shadowmancer
Originally posted by Yann
Happy now?
No.
And Monk, alt!=spy. And me and some other people have been compiling an IP list. If you want to join in...
I didn\'t say I wasn\'t guilty. :D
Just not this particular incident.
PM me with the details, please.
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Good Luck Errion. The SH was one of the few competent guilds around. Now its dead. I have talked to you in length over this and know that you are cool enough not to disturbed very much by this. But still it makes me sad to think that it could be my hand by which SH perishes. I wanted to have the SH not kill it.
About Spies:
As to spies they are a reality. They make this game interesting. They force guilds to evolve and develop immunity to subterfuge instead of remaining inert. The Cabal has had more spies than most guilds put together so believe us we know. Its part of the excitement of the game.
The name of the game is \" Move fast or Die\" and like it or not we are all playing it. Face it and stay ahead. Warriors don\'t whine that the enemy is too strong. They move ahead and kill. That is how the war is won.
BTW:
I remember a certain day when certain people ridiculed the idea of spies when Cabal proposed using them. I stand vindicated
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shooting stuff with rocket launcher would make game interesting.
But do everyone want it? No.
Do we need it in Planeshift? Hell no!
Same with spying by creating alts.
And Auran, ever considered that many of the spies placed in cabal are just trying to defend themselfs from your spies?
You know... it\'s funny that so much damage has been done in this community because of your actions, you say you\'re sorry and continue what you were doing...
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Spys :( Why must that start so earlier, why must it start at all! Now I will be extra careful in recruiting and set a longer time trial!! Its a shame to see any guild go...
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Originally posted by shadowmancer
Originally posted by Yann
Happy now?
No.
And Monk, alt!=spy. And me and some other people have been compiling an IP list. If you want to join in...
Compiling and IP list? I know you guys are trying to keep your guild/guilds safe, but a publicly compiled IP list is not the way to go. If someone in the community decides they want to destory someone\'s comp, they have a list to help them along. I am very much against that because, in the wrong hands, it will do more harm than good.
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Originally posted by Dameon
Originally posted by shadowmancer
Originally posted by Yann
Happy now?
No.
And Monk, alt!=spy. And me and some other people have been compiling an IP list. If you want to join in...
Compiling and IP list? I know you guys are trying to keep your guild/guilds safe, but a publicly compiled IP list is not the way to go. If someone in the community decides they want to destory someone\'s comp, they have a list to help them along. I am very much against that because, in the wrong hands, it will do more harm than good.
Obviously enough, certain measures would have to be taken.
Such as only giving it to midbie and above guild-leaders, people you know aren\'t crazy enough to go and hack.
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I thank everybody for their support, it was much appreaciated.
About reconsidering, you would easily guess that before posting such a thread, I have though it over for quite some time.
I\'ve made my mind. I won\'t spend all my (cyber) life chasing all the spies around.
For me, friendship\'s the most important thing in life. And when you figure out that the person you considered as a friend actually is betraying you, well, even if it\'s a game, it hurts.
So when it happens several times, it begins to be severly annoying.
I was just too ignorant to think there was a place for a secret guild.
Although I may look depressed, I am not. I am even rather happy that it finally ended for me.
Oh and btw, I\'ve found out, discussing with some friends, that guilds bring more \"bad points\" than good ones, that\'s why I will privilegiate \"groups\" of friends from now.
All I want is having fun with friends now, it\'s much enjoyable and easy than running a guild filled with spies, believe me :P
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mmm yes it does hurt when you are betrayed by a online friend, I know it only to well...People think since we can\'t see each other and interact physically with each other that who cares what you do...It ain\'t right because friends are just as easily made and cared for on the internet as in real life :(
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And Auran, ever considered that many of the spies placed in cabal are just trying to defend themselfs from your spies?
You know... it\'s funny that so much damage has been done in this community because of your actions, you say you\'re sorry and continue what you were doing...
Well Draklar I know what you say and agree. Spies are placed in the Cabal for defence I know. But why were spies placed in the SH? Not all spies in SH where Cabali. I have a complete list of SH members and spies in it. Who put the spies in there and why? Who I can tell but won\'t. And why is the question I ask of everyone.
Also please understand that not for a moment do I entertain any notion that what i am doing is not wrong. It is very wrong I admit it. Why else would I call myself evil? But the fact is that I am doing nothing out of the scope of any MMORPG. I am not hacking or threatening or harassing anyone etc. All I do is strictly within the scope and ability of Auran the roleplay charachter so you really cannot blame me for much besides RPing a very evil charachter to which I readily admit. Have you ever considered the fact that Auran was engineered to be what he is? Have you thouhgt that he might not be like Draklar who is actually a reflection of the real gamer behind him? Have you ever thought that some gamers may have RP skills beyond just acting themselves in the game? If you haven\'t then its time you and everyone else did. Auran is designed to be the Nemesis. I suggest, nay urge, that you to try and slay him. Let this be my challenge.
I have chosen to RP evil and by god I will do it. And if you observe I do keep certain restrictions on what I do or say. I never foulmouth, I am never hostile to the fair sex, I never interact with new players lest I scare them off. What more would you have me do? What else could I give up and still maintain my evil identity? So accept it. Auran is Auran and there is nothing you or anyone else can do about it.
EDIT:
But let me add that any suggestions as to how I can improve Auran from any and everyone is always most welcome, though I seriously doubt the plausibility of such. Imagine you teaching me how to talk and you\'ll get the idea of how ridiculous the notion appears to me.
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Originally posted by Draklar
what do you expect? This community filled with jerkish people won\'t let secret guild stay secret. The more that like Caldazar said this spying has nothing to do with mmorpg.
Finding no fun in running a guild, because you have to worry about spies all the time... I would do same thing... :rolleyes:
a guild that already gained nice position in the world of Yliakum destroyed by idiocy of the community... should make some people think about what they\'re doing.
I don\'t think you can tell idiots anything and expect them to turn around and say \"hey, you are right.\" - this is why they are idiots. I understand what you\'re saying, though, Draklar. And, we should always make an attempt to raise consciousness, if not for the idiots then for the would-be idiots under their influence.
Yann, you worked hard. I\'m sorry some fools screwed that up for you. But, as many mistakes as you think you made or actually did make, I cannot see how SH could have grown and stayed secret. Don\'t blame yourself too much.
It is important to understand that Planeshift Molecular Blue is not a MMORPG, it\'s a chat room where RL details about \"players\" are easy to obtain and the line between Out Of Character (OOC) personal interaction and ingame character interaction doesn\'t exist. The release of Crystal Blue (CB) may include game features that allow a real game to be played, but CB won\'t erase people\'s memories. Too many of the folks here right now know one another personally and will reestablsih their RL ties in CB. Because of this, CB won\'t be a MMORPG either.
Spies in Planeshift would be exciting and fun if this were a real MMORPG. They would have to work hard to do their jobs. As it stand now, it\'s way too easy, that\'s why the idiot variety of Planeshifter tends to become one. I\'ll give them all a little slack, though: wtf else is there to do except collect crytals or argue in this forum? :D
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ehh Auran... so you say that alts have anything to do with mmorpg? They use spying skills of their chars or something? And destroying community is very weird way of roleplay you know...
Another thing, me.... weird how all Clawhand, good Draklar and evil Draklar are different, yet all are reflections of me irl 8o
but please, don\'t change topic :rolleyes:
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so you say that alts have anything to do with mmorpg? They use spying skills of their chars or something? And destroying community is very weird way of roleplay you know...
Let me demonstrate by example. i have always found it to work well with the dimwitted:
A spy admit it or not is always an alt. In RL or in RP. Look at Matahari. She was something to the germans and another to the allies. Matahari the artist was an alt for the british spy. Now since games will not allow for such changes within the application (too much programming hassle over a trifle), alts here translate into a different username. The person is essentially the same. Yes I admit it would be wrong to have two physically different in-game charachters for spying. I mean one could create a Dermorian and a Krann and claim to be two different persons. That is wrong in RPG i will agree and if you ask you will know that even Xordan my oldest comerade knows where I stand on that issue. The cabal will not tolerate two physically different charachters. Rely on us to check that. Besides that i don\'t see much wrong about having aliases. Its fair gameplay.
Plus I am not destroying the community. Would you consider Yann destroyed just because SH fell? Give the man some credit. He was a better gamer than you realise if you think that his only identity was being the leader of the SH. The player has many friends and I hope he counts me among them. The Cabal started with the aim of destroying guilds and that is what it does. Players cannot be destroyed nor can the community they form.
Another thing, me.... weird how all Clawhand, good Draklar and evil Draklar are different, yet all are reflections of me irl
but please, don\'t change topic
Change topic? Tell me my friend when have you ever seen me lose an argument that you think i might be forced to change the topic? Anyhow just because you call youself by different names doesn\'t change the charachter you play. A charachter is much beyond cliches like saying \"The darkness rules\" or stereotypes like adopting the title of \"Dark lord\". But perhaps this is all beyond you which wouldn\'t surprise me totally. Rest assured whatever name you call yourself by or whatever antics you adopt you can never cease to be the moron Draklar. That is unless you choose to take my help. Then I can create something new and better.
EDIT: Oh and BTW I urge everyone to think of RPGs as not bound by the rules created by some franchise or some game application developed by Game makers. RPGs can be what the player\'s imagination makes them out to be. Thats what makes them so fascinating.
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again, don\'t change the topic of this thread. If you want to talk about my roleplay, come ingame (that\'s where I do most of it anyway). And I understand that you come ingame anyway, since you know so much about me and char I roleplay.
[edit]I think you should ask people that know me long ingame (and talked with me a lot).
I\'d point Monketh, Grakrim, Giladrial, Nilaya, Bora, Aineko, Nia (whatever her name is atm :P) and some other people...[/edit]
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Ah there you have me for I have never been ingame and seen you (a spectacle as it must have been:P). But I bet its not a fat lot more than you could do here. What can you ingame that you can\'t do on forums yet? Pick crystals? Chat with players while appearing as a dermorian at some tavern? Woooo! Great RolePlay:D. I\'ll cease discussions about your Rp skills here
As for Yann I am sure that he even after having SH disbanded is less threatened by me and my activities than you apparently are.
Edit: I noticed that Draklar didn\'t say much wrong in the above post hence I amend my post and extend my apology for perchance having offended him during the period that my post stood unedited. No hard feelings Drak. I am not ashamed to apologise when I am wrong:)
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I say we tie Draklar and Auran up in a corner. Because they\'re both just as bad as each other. Every thread either one of them are a part of turns into a childish bickering between the two. And it\'s getting very old very fast.
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First of all Yann, I am very sorry for your guild. But old friends aren\'t forgotten ... remember this.
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:(... well this sucks, i for one don\'t know a single spy, nor have i spied on anybody. Spying can be roleplayed well, ingame. but this isnt roleplay, and its not ingame; its just about dominating the comunity by knowing everyones secrets - not cool.
Anyway I always respected Shadowhand for their secrecy and originality. The sad fact is i have been here for a year and i remember being proud of our community. Now, unfortunately the most dispicable are winning, turning us against one another, dare i even say it; corrupting us.
Let me just say, from a personal point of view i despise the spammers, the arguementative, the arrogant and the \'spies\' amongst us. Our community, especailly the guild community, is rotting away from the inside, soon it will just be an empty husk.
Edit: why is annah\'s sig so big?
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The most ironic thing being that nobody really has any secrets at this point in the game, except possibly who they\'re spying on :rolleyes:
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I am very sorry to here the errion, we heard the storm from miles away, now the storm has arrived, i feel this was a good idea, maybe some time to regroup your thoughts.We have be allies for a long time(almost a year) and it has been a great pleasure working side by side with you and traking down the scum of Yilakum.
Farewell SH.
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You know things are bad when such a respectful guild is forced to disband due to such a stupid reason. I must admit, mainly to Draklar, that I didn\'t think things could possibly be this bad, but after reading this, I stand corrected.
I wish I could do something about it, but the only ones who can are the very people who own these spy alts. A community shouldn\'t have to guard itself from waves of fake characters created solely to infiltrate guilds and learn their every move.
And that is the real problem here... the sheer number of them. Davis alone has three. I know other people also have several alts. Yes, I\'ve checked alot of members out here and it\'s just ridiculous.
I know first hand how alts damage friendships, and even the community as a whole. I found this out the hard way when I nearly forever lost the trust of my best friend here, while under my Adrift alt. But my alt is now retired, since I see the harm that lying and spying inevitably does. I implore everyone else to drop their acts and try to return the community to a safe, pleasant place in which people can run or be a part of their guild in peace, and not have to be paranoid about who they can count as \"friends\". It\'s just not worth it.
Remember, this isn\'t about stupid little guild secrets. They don\'t even exist yet. There\'s no secrets in any guild which would cause it any harm if discovered by a spy. This is solely about the bond of friendship you make when you join a guild, and the deep personal hurt you cause when that bond is broken because they find out their friend didn\'t even exist.
As a side note, due to this situation, Aliathi\'s doors are closed to all except those invited into our church. We are a guild based on friendship and ingame roleplaying, so I\'d rather not risk myself or my members being personally betrayed by a so-called \"friend\".
Anyways... Sorry to see SH go. The idea of a secret guild is not as fundamentally flawed as you believe, Yann. It simply can\'t work in this community untill it changes for the better. Keep the guild alive in your heart, and one day, I know you\'ll be able to bring her back. :)
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Sorry to hear it Yann. But the lack of shock at your guild\'s existence, the mourning of it, and even your announcement of it disbanding are contrary to the whole nature of a \"secret\" guild.
Let this be a lesson to others who wish to have secret guilds.... Be more careful!!!
;-)
- Vengeance
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I nearly forever lost the trust of my best friend here, while under my Adrift alt.
I don\'t know what to say. I don\'t know if I should believe whether mogura is talking about me or not. Even if she is not, just to think even for a moment that I might have actually made such a friend, a friend who gets hurt when I fall, satisfies all that I ever wished to accomplish right from the moment I joined this game. I no longer feel the urge to accomplish anything more. Thus I declare Auran the Corruptor gone from this moment on. The Cabal will have my notice as soon as Xordan is back from his vacation. I donot apologise for anything for there is nothing I have done wrong save causing even a moment\'s discomfort to her who considered me a friend. Alas I didn\'t know this sooner or she would be calling me friend still.
The cabal is by no means what everyone sees it to be. It is a force of potency few could imagine. A tool which when wielded right can have effects devastating. With that tool I hoped to accomplish much. But now I see I needed to accomplish little save be a good friend. So now I relinquish that control. It means little to me hereon. It will still help others realise their ambitions but those ambitions i share not.
I by no means will admit I was wrong in creating the Cabal. It has its own place in this community. Nor do any of its activities strain my scruples even slightly. There is nothing wrong with the Cabal save for the fact that they are very good at being Evil. I leave because I am satisfied I have achieved all that I needed to.
I do not know where I will turn next but I will not betray those that trusted me. Had I been my old self I would have used all the knowledge to my advantage but now that I see in the light i would have that knowledge die along with the corruptor i was. I cannot betray those who even trusted me for a moment.
So farewell my friends. The Auran you knew you will know no more. I don\'t even know if i\'ll have a place in this community having relinquished the role I held here. I very well know that I could create easily scores of charachters of any nature which would force you to sit up and take notice but I am no longer inclined to do so. I will remain if I am accepted and tarry alone if not. Not again will I use the abilities that I have save to effect good.
That said I will conclude. Let this be Auran the Corruptor\'s Swan Song.
Note: Cabali please refer to Cabal forums a few hours from now.
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Originally posted by Davis
The most ironic thing being that nobody really has any secrets at this point in the game, except possibly who they\'re spying on :rolleyes:
SH\'s memberlist was secret, that was the whole point of creating a rogue-guild when I and Yann launched it a long time ago. Much have changed, especially this forum.
I guess some people can\'t see a secret without seeing a challenge, a nut to crack.
Congratulations to those people, you have reached level 2 in Dante\'s Inferno and gained 200,112,081 xp.
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eh, 8th level of Dante\'s Inferno actually... the ring of fraudulent...
Anyway, I hope that it\'ll get better in CB.... when people will have better things to do than alt-spy... :/
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i really never knew about SH except in your sig :P
but i know what its like to lose a guild because things arnt working out
so what are you gonna do now? go back to the drawing board and get ready to make a new guild, join an existing guild or go freelance?
i would recommend spending 5 weeks closely studying every guild and their members, it is very enlightening :]
you end up realising some guilds have their description all wrong or pathetic and full of lies
good luck with your future in yliakum
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I just can\'t help wondering... A secret guild filled with spies ofr other guilds claims to disband... Can\'t this be a plot of SH to have an even more smaller secret guild nobodody knows of except their members. It could be a restart with only the loyal part. By stating to have disbanded other guilds don\'t know of the existence of SH so no spies are sent. It really suprises me this obvious idea hasn\'t come up yet.
If im wrong its a shame a guild comes to its end this way. The shock of the fall will probably have an effect on the other guild for quite some time. Some good can come of this though. It makes people think about how to roleplay with guilds in a way thats fair and fun to everyone. Perhaps a topic to discuss this should be opened.
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Perhaps a topic to discuss this should be opened.
These things has been \"discussed\" so many times, over and over. No discussions can be held, because those that want to discuss it are stubborn, and close to idiots (except Draklar, he\'s the man).
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Originally posted by Ionas
I just can\'t help wondering... A secret guild filled with spies ofr other guilds claims to disband... Can\'t this be a plot of SH to have an even more smaller secret guild nobodody knows of except their members. It could be a restart with only the loyal part. By stating to have disbanded other guilds don\'t know of the existence of SH so no spies are sent. It really suprises me this obvious idea hasn\'t come up yet.
I thought the same thing, but then i thought - i like sh, so if they are doing that i am not going to say their plan, just incase its true.
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yes, but if his \"friends\" betrayed him already, how can he know who to trust for sure now? :(
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no iam not happy
fact 1) i never spied on any one in the game
fact 2) the reason i joined cabal was because of the Choatic evil part its like they were pirates in a vast ocean doing mostly what ever they wanted and that inculded Fun, thats what to me life is about Going out there do some crazy stuff and go out maby have some good bbq with buddies and end it with a bang (no iam not a martyr but you get the point)
now ranting and raveing is the only real fun thing to do on any board other than wild specqulation (SP) and even if spying on other guilds is bad, it breaths life into the game ! where the fun if theres no strife ? would you watch suivour if they were all buddy buddy? would you watch simon if he didnt insult people on thier lack of talent ?
so GL yann maby ill see you in game some time ?
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Originally posted by Draklar
yes, but if his \"friends\" betrayed him already, how can he know who to trust for sure now? :(
Maybe some friends kept loyal and Yann only excegerates as a cover up.
About the concept of the guilds: Since someone said this has been discussed many times before, does this mean there is no good way to avoid these sort of things?
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Originally posted by Ionas
Originally posted by Draklar
yes, but if his \"friends\" betrayed him already, how can he know who to trust for sure now? :(
Maybe some friends kept loyal and Yann only excegerates as a cover up.
About the concept of the guilds: Since someone said this has been discussed many times before, does this mean there is no good way to avoid these sort of things?
No, there is no way to avoid it, except for having the f***tards that does it quit, and behave like regular players, instead of trying to \"conquer PS with their flawed logic and ultimate plots of doom\".
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It\'s never good to see a guild go. It\'s a shame because it can only do bad to the community. However, there is a lot of self-pity in your post, a little too much... hmmm... I wonder...
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A real spying challenge is to use your own char to spy like Annah did. Or try to research about the guild a bit, try to persuade some1 within the guild to give in some info, make some deals with some1 already in the guild. This is the hard way, but it is better in the RP way. Of course making an alt is easier and gets good results and it\'s kind of harmless when people don\'t take it to far.
To enter a guild and not just spy but creating bounds with its leader which are going to be broke, it\'s not quite spying it\'s more like FrEAKinG sabotage(Well you can also sabotage with your own current char like Annah =P, At least with your own char you are having enough courage to show your face while and after doing it). Well spying is good, if you don\'t get too involved with the leader you unhearted creeps. Well I would ask for the name of one of this spies, just to be sure your not doing what Ionas thinks your doing ;), wait make it 3 names, 1 isn\'t enough to prove anything =P.
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I thought Davis (alias Shadowmancer) would be ashamed and courageous enough to say it by himself.
Once again, i was wrong.
I am considering several offers from various guilds and organisations at the moment. I may join one of them, and I hope I will make a good choice, this time :P
Once again, only time will say.
Many thanks to all of you for your support :)
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well well well... so our mirthfull fellow turns out to be master alt\'er, eh? :D
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Would rather that this game just stays away from the whole spy experience, makes some people paranoid *looks around quickly*!
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aye, espionage is ok, but alt spying is not,
good luck choosing a guild Errion
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alt spying isn\'t?? But lets look at real life... 3/4 of spies are \'alt\' spies. It works the best, and who says u can\'t have 2 different names?? If u can\'t tell who\'s a spy and who\'s not, then tough cookie. ;) Cabal seems to manage it fine.
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Xordan, does pre-alpha tech-demo say anything to you? How about skills not implemented yet?
Yea, that pretty much means that game isn\'t ready yet and all that alt-spying is out of game.
Oh, did you ever notice that in real life there\'s free \"pvp\" everywhere? Well guess what? It\'s not in Planeshift 8o :rolleyes:
Now quit comparing this to real life. I have serious doubts if changing IP was measurement of being good spy in medieval times :rolleyes:
Oh, and just a guess... the 3/4 had some spying skills, didn\'t they? Show me how much ingame skills those alt-spies have. Yes, it\'s a game with its rules (if you didn\'t notice).
And one more point about real life. When you\'re observed a lot, whatever your disguise will be, someone might discover from your looks that you\'re a spy. That\'s one of points of being secret. Sorry, but cabal is observed quite a lot. I don\'t think you have anything to say here.
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Originally posted by Xordan
alt spying isn\'t?? But lets look at real life... 3/4 of spies are \'alt\' spies.
In real life, alot of spies are killed. Let\'s do that aswell!
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Why else would I call myself evil? But the fact is that I am doing nothing out of the scope of any MMORPG. I am not hacking or threatening or harassing anyone etc.
The Cabal started with the aim of destroying guilds and that is what it does. Players cannot be destroyed nor can the community they form.
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I have been eyeballing this game for quite a while now.
I was thinking it would be a great game.
However, I currently play EverQuest and I am in a great guild.
My guildmates are so close to eachother that they meet
in Texas USA at least once per year IRL.
So to me just being in my guild defines me having fun
in game.
This dude here is saying that his guild is the destroyer
of other guilds? then has the balls to say hes not
harassing noone? if someone came on my server
and by useing lies and childish pranks and tactics
to disrupt adn even disband my FAMILY, i think you
would be in direct violation of my rights to enjoy
my online experience, call it roleplay or whatever
you like. but to me it is still just as harmful and i may
feel the need to track you down IRL and have a lil talk.
There is no way possible to ruin someone elses fun
or violate them and their friends wether online or
IRL and then try to hide behind that RP line.
Well for about a year now i thought this might be THE
game for me, but after hearing about whole the guilds
ninja eachother with total disregard to community
and to themselves, looks like another 3 years of EQ for
me.
This woulda been a great game too bad the guilds
had to go and screw it all up :(
Take care all
Try to stay safe
Tibber Goldenheart
60th Season Paladin
Drinal
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Originally posted by Yann
I am considering several offers from various guilds and organisations at the moment. I may join one of them, and I hope I will make a good choice, this time :P
Once again, only time will say.
What is your status now? Have you decided yet what you\'re going to do? You do realise you are in a good position to bargain with these guilds right? There are multiple offers, you have experience in running a guild and knowledge the other guilds might not have.
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Who said anything about changing IP? Most of my spies are ingame, and signed upto other guilds. Noticed how the Cabal has a low count on it\'s member list ingame? You can\'t be in more than two guilds, and all my spies have one character. My guys just feed back info to me from the guild they\'re in. ;) Of course, they have a different name as far as being in Cabal, aka \'alt\'.
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Originally posted by Xordan
Noticed how the Cabal has a low count on it\'s member list ingame?
now how am I supposed to notice that, fellow?
anyway, Tibber stated it quite well... and you answered only one of my points...
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btw, it was Mirth which destroyed SH. ;)
Anyway, I believe that a few months ago you were spouting summin along the lines of guilds not being able to split up due to spies, that friendship and stuff would prevail etc. etc. And then we asked how you can know who\'s your friend or not, how did you know who you were actually talking to, but no, you had to be right and us wrong. Looks like you were proved wrong. ;)
Other points??
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Originally posted by Ionas
Originally posted by Yann
I am considering several offers from various guilds and organisations at the moment. I may join one of them, and I hope I will make a good choice, this time :P
Once again, only time will say.
What is your status now? Have you decided yet what you\'re going to do? You do realise you are in a good position to bargain with these guilds right? There are multiple offers, you have experience in running a guild and knowledge the other guilds might not have.
thats if he joins a newb guild, most likely he will choose something along the lines of OI, CV, heck maybe even AO
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Originally posted by Xordan
Anyway, I believe that a few months ago you were spouting summin along the lines of guilds not being able to split up due to spies, that friendship and stuff would prevail etc. etc. And then we asked how you can know who\'s your friend or not, how did you know who you were actually talking to, but no, you had to be right and us wrong. Looks like you were proved wrong. ;)
oh really? \'twas me? how about checkig some threads then? Because I said only damage you can do in Defenders is to show that a friend was really a traitor. Almost sorry to make you look like a fool.
...I didn\'t like Mirth anyway...
anyway, I wonder when I\'ll hear answers to points made by me, Caldazar and Tibber... especially Tibber...
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quote Xordan
\"btw, it was Mirth which destroyed SH.\"
nono...Davis destroyed SH
Mirth consists of other members that had no part in it from what I know.
and Yann...too bad you wont join the Ashes. :)
I guess you rather hang out with the veterans...hihihi
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Originally posted by Xordan
btw, it was Mirth which destroyed SH.
Originally posted by Xordan
Heh, I assume that means we\'re enemies DepthBlade?? Be careful, less your guild will follow SH. ;)
taking credit from what Davis did, eh?
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lol, actually, if you were more informed, u\'d know about everything that happened. Ask a AO council member, or Yann, as I can\'t be bothered to explain. :P
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Well sure I\'m not informed. I didn\'t join this game to ruin others\' fun by spying on them.
And it\'s clear. Unless cabal is connected with davis, I stay with my opinion.
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I can see if it was just one guild spying (Shadowhand)... but this is out of control. Every guild spying on every other guild. It is insane.
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Ao doesn\'t spy, yet we are still usually on the top of our game
no spy pride
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Originally posted by TheRedMonk
quote Xordan
\"btw, it was Mirth which destroyed SH.\"
nono...Davis destroyed SH
Mirth consists of other members that had no part in it from what I know.
Mirth did not destroy SH. Davis (me, notice me catering to your lack of intellegence) did not destroy SH.
Originally posted by Dameon
I can see if it was just one guild spying (Shadowhand)... but this is out of control. Every guild spying on every other guild. It is insane.
Well, it used to be Cabal spying on everyone and everyone else spying on Cabal. Now it looks like its just Cabal spying on everyone. If you have any concerns, take it to Xordan.
Originally posted by Xordan
lol, actually, if you were more informed, u\'d know about everything that happened. Ask a AO council member, or Yann, as I can\'t be bothered to explain.
Yes, too bad. You can\'t be bothered to spread anti-Davis propaganda, you have to get people to ask your friends so I\'m not there to defend myself... great plan. :rolleyes:
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Mirth did not destroy SH. Davis (me, notice me catering to your lack of intellegence) did not destroy SH.
btw...did you mean intelligence?
What the hell Davis...I knew you were a traitor but now it proves that your a coward as well. Are you not Shadowmancer, the guy who joined SH a week before I did? And isnt it true that the only reason you were in SH was to spy on Yann, a good friend of yours (and of mine). You were caught in action and still wont apologize.
Next time, try to prove me wrong, instead of coming with insults.
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Originally posted by TheRedMonk
Mirth did not destroy SH. Davis (me, notice me catering to your lack of intellegence) did not destroy SH.
btw...did you mean intelligence?
What the hell Davis...I knew you were a traitor but now it proves that your a coward as well. Are you not Shadowmancer, the guy who joined SH a week before I did? And isnt it true that the only reason you were in SH was to spy on Yann, a good friend of yours (and of mine). You were caught in action and still wont apologize.
Next time, try to prove me wrong, instead of coming with insults.
Bunch of pitbulls going for his throat, well only one thing to say after that verbal beating! Check and Mate!
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Originally posted by TheRedMonk
And isnt it true that the only reason you were in SH was to spy on Yann, a good friend of yours (and of mine). You were caught in action and still wont apologize.
Next time, try to prove me wrong, instead of coming with insults.
You are missing a few facts. I did not join SH to spy on Yann. I joined SH before I joined Cabal. I joined Cabal with the intent to spy on my good friend Auran, but it got boring, so I stopped the whole spying thing between Cabal and SH and started doing other work for the Cabal and SH separately.
What was I caught in the act of? Yann knew I had an alt in Cabal since I started. I kept no secrets. Now everyone\'s acting like it\'s a big surprise... tell me, where do you get your information? Xordan?
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Not Xordan...Yann...I speak to him everyday.
You joined what you knew was a good friends SECRET guild, SH, while being active in Mirth. Thats all I care about. What you did with the Cabal is of no importance to me...
Yann But now I am too annoyed to find out that the ones I considered friends are just spies here to give out info about my guild.
We both know who he is talking about...
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If it\'s me, then he is seriously misinformed...
You care about Mirth? Do you think I was reporting your secrets to Half Pint? Seriously...
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Originally posted by Draklar
Unless cabal is connected with davis, I stay with my opinion.
hmm... since davis was in cabal, I suppose what you said was ok :|
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To Errion - I\'m sorry. When I joined your guild, I had no intention of destroying it. It won\'t happen again. Umm... that\'s really all there is to say...
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I am glad to hear it...
that\'s really all there is to say too...
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Originally posted by shadowmancer
It won\'t happen again.
Sorry, can\'t resist..do you really think that there will be another time? I can\'t speak for Yann, but I would never be in a guild with you, or anyone else that spies. That is my promise to this community.
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Dammit, I wasn\'t spying!
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I would just like to post a quote from my recent post in the Mirth thread:
Well, please forgive my ignorance. As I said in RedMonk\'s thread, I had absolutely no idea that Davis was shadowmancer. I have just spoken to him, and he has voluntarily removed himself from Mirth Guild.
Please do not see Davis\'s actions as a reflection on Mirth as a whole. We do have NEVER considered it Mirthful to use an alt to gain information, and our new policy is that all spying is un-Mirthful. Although the rest of Mirth had nothing to do with this, I am ashamed that one of our own has done this. I offer my sincere apologies to Errion, as well as the rest of Shadowhand, and pledge that I will do my absolute best to rid Planeshift of the stagnation that has befallen it.
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Draklar wrote:
anyway, I wonder when I\'ll hear answers to points made by me, Caldazar and Tibber... especially Tibber...
_____________________________________________
They wont reply to what i wrote, cause they know for a
fact that it is childish and stupid to ruin a game before it
even has a chance to become an actual game.
Take care all, Try not to screw up whatevers left of this
game ;)
Tibber Goldenheart
60th Season Paladin
Drinal
-
Eh you want me to reply to what you said? You whom I never heard of, Draklar who quit his guild at the slightest pretext because he was unable to support the responsibility any longer and Caldazar who quit SH for apparently no reason save perhaps that he had enough of it? You will not like that i assure you but i will oblige you:
I am not Auran The corruptor anymore but I will say this that if you think I destroyed the SH then so be it. I will admit that I destroyed the SH as Auran the cabali. I also state that if I were that Cabali still I would destroy all guilds of the realm and not bat an eyelid. The Cabal was formed to be the destroyer of guilds and that it is. We do our job its nothing personal. I like Errion plenty but I would not spare the SH because of that.
A game is a game. I am sure you wouldn\'t curse your friends for playing against you in a game of chess? Then why do you hate me for playing against you here? Someone has to be the opposing party in every game. Without the anatagonist where is the game?
As to this \"family\" concept i respect that. But if you claim to be family you shouldn\'t break apart just because of what happens in a game. I mean would you disown your brother if you found out he was cheating at chinese checkers? If you claim to be a family then try to be wise enough to distinguish that family from the game that you are playing. A family will love and support you no matter what. Eeven if you commmited a felony. Cheating at a game falls far short of that.
In conclusion if you can\'t hold together a guild don\'t whine about it. Stand up and take what comes like Yann. This incident proved that he was indeed a courageous and mature player. When adversity came he smiled and shook hands with it. I respect that and urge you to be more like him. Try to defeat the Cabal at their own game or shut up and admit they won.
In conlusion:
Things happen, get over them. I cannot be bothered to clarify this any further. And moreover I am not Auran the corruptor anymore either so meh...
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Caldazar who quit SH for apparently no reason
If you don\'t have the whole story, then shut the hell up. I had my reason for leaving SH, and it was not that I was fed up with it. I loved that guild with all my heart.
Edited for language.
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AuranYou whom I never heard of
The fact that you don\'t know me is your weakness, not mine...
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And Auran fails to deliver.
Nice speech, really satisfying the populace... wanna take Annah\'s old place in Mortik?
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That\'s it, i don\'t want to know about this. It\'s just like, a soap opera that you start watching since the mid of the season: You don\'t know what the hell is going on, and you simply don\'t give a damn.
Still, i think you should let everyone post his own version before labeling someone as \"traitor\" and calling each other names. :)
Peace.
No, wait, war. War is better for us. :P
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Originally posted by Auran
Draklar who quit his guild at the slightest pretext because he was unable to support the responsibility any longer
:rolleyes: :P
I knew you weren\'t roleplaying an idiot... you just are :P
anyway, yea yea... you destroyed SH as Auran the corruptor... some people will buy it, some will actually think. SH was destroyed on a base of real friendship, not a roleplaying thing. You say it was only roleplay from your part, however some took it hardly for real. This resulted in collapsing a guild. You know when roleplaying is best? That even if you are roleplaying enemies, the other player won\'t get hurt by you. Leave the fight for roleplay, but when you hurt someone for real just to have more fun from your part, that\'s obvious - you are rl jerk.
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I thought about this for a while, and this is what I decided...
First thing. Auran, stop trying to take the blame. I don\'t know what you think you can gain from it, but no matter what you say, everything that happened was a result of my own actions.
What I didn\'t understand was the seriousness of a lie. I saw nothing wrong with what I was doing. Now I know better. A lie is a betrayal. Betrayal is destructive. My lie destroyed a guild.
I think this is a more fitting apology than \"I\'m sorry, won\'t happen again.\"
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Im glad to hear that Davis! But I still want us to meet when CB comes ;)
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So does this mean this ugly thread can finally be closed, I think I speak for more then a few of us when I say this is starting to get silly and its all in the past now...
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To Davis
If thou regrett\'st thy youth, why live?
The land of honourable death
Is here: --up to the field, and give
Away thy breath!
Seek out--less often sought than found--
A soldier\'s grave, for thee the best;
Then look around, and choose thy ground,
And take thy rest.
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Originally posted by Davis
I thought about this for a while, and this is what I decided...
First thing. Auran, stop trying to take the blame. I don\'t know what you think you can gain from it, but no matter what you say, everything that happened was a result of my own actions.
What I didn\'t understand was the seriousness of a lie. I saw nothing wrong with what I was doing. Now I know better. A lie is a betrayal. Betrayal is destructive. My lie destroyed a guild.
I think this is a more fitting apology than \"I\'m sorry, won\'t happen again.\"
Davis, you didn\'t destroy the guild, but you highly participated to it. I was just already too annoyed with spies when I found out that you were Davis... That\'s all.
Now you don\'t need to jump over the window lol
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well this is one off the main reasons people are stop playing ( i left several times and came back several times ) the community, it\'s not friend like anymore it\'s who can backstab the other the best and then tell everyone here how superiour he or she is.
it is braking down a what used to be a great community, it\'s a shame it had to come this far, and i\'m not talking about sh but there are more guilds that will fall because of a bad community and maybe some other \"smaller\" guilds allready fell because of it.
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Id have to disagree, Dorbian. Theres been a big discussion about Davis and the problem is solved now. As you can read in his post he isnt very proud of what he has done. The only ones proud of their backstabbing methods are the Cabal, and theyve been on for a while and seem to be here to stay. Well just have to accept it. Without evil there would be no good.
If all good people like you, dorbian, decide to leave as fast as the community gets out of hand then in the end the only people left will be those people that ruins the community. I dont like the direction in which this community is heading but I take my responsabilities like many others to try to do something to change this. So should you!
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Originally posted by TheRedMonk
Well just have to accept it. Without evil there would be no good.
I\'d accept it if it had anything to do with roleplay, being evil ingame, not morons on forums :rolleyes:
I completely agree with Dorbian btw -_-
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well i\'m here for a year now and the community changed since some people ( including the cabal ) came along, the game really changed into a love hatred community with more hatred then love, and i agree that there cannot be peace without war but this is insanity.
people are flaming all over ( i had my portion in that also ) and spying on whoomever walks by ( done that too ), but whats it worth, there is no use in spying then the reason we have here, guilds disbanding, people creating a new guild with the same members under a different name, with the same guidelines, it\'s useless.
but i came back every time it bored or irritated me, and one time someone pursuaded me to stay, against all of my reasons to go i stayed to check everything out.
and being crazy and pretend to be an idiot ( seperot, shut up, don\'t respond to this, i\'ll kill ya ) was fun for a while but it\'s just boring to do things like that, the entire game is about thieving, who can be the best spy and who holds on long enough, every guild is being spied on and every guild has spys in guilds that are spying on them, once again useless, but unlike PvP there is nothing they can do against this, except for IP banning in the game.
and thus more guilds will fall and rise thanks to this game spoiler, and more people will leave thanks to this.
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Being new on PS i wonder if it really was a better community. I haven\'t noticed much hatred ... yet..
If it the community is less friendly, how come? Are people getting bored? Will this continou when CB is released?
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oh it was the best... with all the cool people around... now most of them are gone...
It was discussed in some other thread lately.
The golden days of Planeshift community are over...
and as for CB... two things:- people will have better things to do than proving what idiots they are...
- cabali-like people will start flooding game
so it might either get better or worse... rather worse :/[/color]
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looking for previous experience, WORSE a whole lot worse
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dorbianpeople creating a new guild with the same members under a different name, with the same guidelines\"
You wouldn\'t happen to be talking about Ashes...
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Originally posted by Draklar
oh it was the best... with all the cool people around... now most of them are gone...
Fortunately new cool persons join PS. Im a very good example :D *coughs*
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This was a really big shock to me as i was scanning down the list of guild threads looking for Rangers so i could waste a post. I am deeply saddended by the loss of such a great guild. I\'d also like to take this time to tell u, Errion, and all the other former members of SH that i am sorry for what i did to u. I too was one of those horrible spies at one time. However a long time ago it was, i only feel that i may have started ur anger and annoyance of spies. If this is true, I am greatly sorry and if it means anything to u, i wish i would have never done it now and maybe SH would still be around if it weren\'t for my stupidity and antics.
Once again, i hated to hear this and am sorry it had to end up like this. The best of luck to u Errion and all of those of u secret ppl of one of the greatest guilds in the history of Planeshift.
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Oh it\'s ok, this belongs to the past now, I\'ve made my mind.
Thanks for the good comments btw. Good luck to you too.
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Thank you Trenor and good luck to you too!
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I am ashamed of everyone who was involved in this. And I must say, Yann, you have not had much luck with guilds...shamefull.
These are troublesome times... :O
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Hell joinin Illuminatis aiint bad man lol Congrats! :D Im glad to hear there are no hard feelings.
*Wonders who the Red Monk is and why he is thanking him*
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Hi Tranor!
Im one of those secret people you spoke about so I thought Id thank you for your concern. :)
I was Master Rogue in shadowhand and was called Tybalt there as well but I guess nobody ever heard of me...seems I did a good job then ;)
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Of course we heard of you.
Here\'s what I have on you:
Tybalt
Race: Enkidukai
Occupation: teacher
Aligment: Chaotic Evil
Background story: As a child Tybalt was found out in nature and was treated good by his adoptive parents. When his parents received children of their own Tybalt slowly became an outcast. Living in a basement being tortured in regular basis he became stronger mentally and resistant physically. One day the door stood open to the upper floor and Tybalt went up. His \"family\" was all dead as a punishment from the lord of torture Pein. Tybalt received a blessing and decided to dedicate his live to torturing those who crosses his path.
Citation: \"How do you want me to kill you?\"
Email: XLNT_Mathias@hotmail.com
Country/State: Sweden/G?teborg- France/Marseille
Hows that? Unless you\'ve changed any details I believe it\'s quite correct.
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nono...you were wrong about the alignment...its lawful evil my friend :D other than that its all good ;)
*ERHUM*errion*EHRUM*
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It was mean Xordan.
Pasting some info that Aramys (Spehk, a Cabal spy) got. I thought you told me you wouldn\'t do that.
*Kicks Xordan in the nuts.
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It doesnt matter...you could have gotten more info by reading about me on the ashes thread...
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No, I told the leader of Shadowhand that, :)
hey, minimal effort is what I like. Reading is too much effort.
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that just goes the show that the Cabal\'s spies arent any good... they get the wrong information... so so sad
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Spy\'s are not bad, they can make the game more fun!
But NOT right now!
It\'s still beta..
And I also don\'t like \"good\"guilds (non -evil) that they have spy\'s.. I mean.. it\'s a Role Playing game. Please think first longer if you\'re guild should get spy\'s, if that fits in the \'story\' of your guild.
Later in the game spy\'s would be more usefull so they can steal things etc. but I think there would be less spy\'s. IF there would be things like prisons (prisons for guilds) than it would be very risky. When someone thinks another is an spy he could report him to the guild leader, than the guild leader could send some people to look if he\'s realy a spy by following him abit. And when he is you could wait until he returns to the guild house or something and jail him! Than you could toture him or lock him until he says who send him. That person will ofcourse die and if it was a guild you could send spy\'s back or begin a war with that guild!
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roleplay? wake up!
A guy that has 0 spying skills ingame can find out what he wants in enemy guild. Where do you see roleplay in that. Alt-spying has nothing to do with rp. Oh, and it so happens that there\'s nothing wrong with good guilds having spies, but it depends on their background, not alignment.
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Toadhead 1, Dead Horse 0
People (including me) don\'t like it when you bump up old threads with little reason.
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please drop it...the matter has been discussed enough already and all involved parties know how the situation is.