PlaneShift

Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Quwaar on April 20, 2004, 10:47:00 pm

Title: Secondary attack
Post by: Quwaar on April 20, 2004, 10:47:00 pm
I couldnt find any usefull things about this(it will probably be a short live thread, but here goes:

As in the post of Sashok20 in the \"invent a new ranged weapon\" thread:

1. When used, it cannot be a primary weapon. The process of putting it away and equipping a real weapon takes time..


Well, it takes time yes, but cant you hit the opponant with your hand when holding something. Like when you run out of arrows the bow could be used as a weapon.

Or you could hit someone with the hilt of your sword, for a blunt attack instead of melee.

Just a though, would it prove usefull in PS?
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Post by: Icefalcon on April 21, 2004, 04:35:38 am
If you have a sword, why would you ever use the hilt as a weapon...just wondering. But I think that with some weapons, this would be a good idea, such as a bow. Or if a spear breaks (if that could happen) you could use it as a quarterstaff of something like that.
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Post by: Cirque on April 21, 2004, 06:02:29 am
You mention the \"invent a new ranged weapon\" thread, why dont you tie this post in with it? Your sword example seemed a bit odd to me because I know id rather be using the blade. But with a sword you dont have a ranged attack which is why I suggested one in the thread you mentioned. I suggested 2 2nd weapons infact.

I can see the dilema with an archer though. They may have 1 arrow left and the enemy is close to them so they could use the last arrow as a melee weapon.

Melee= confused, frantic, noisy, general hand to hand combat.
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Post by: Quwaar on April 21, 2004, 11:23:54 am
I gave the example of the sowrd just so you dont have to kill a person, but to stun him/her or something. With a good blunt blow ont he head you have your hp down, but also you might knock him down, and make him inactive or something.
Title: well
Post by: TheRedMonk on April 21, 2004, 11:37:48 am
I really don\'t see whats so stupid about using the hilt. To answer your question Icefalcon (nice logo btw ;))...if some creatures are very resistant to slashing or piercing damage its probably better to use the hilt and do some crushing damage.
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Post by: ShadowFish on April 21, 2004, 12:53:30 pm
but...the blade is heavier than the hilt....just because its sharp doesnt mean it can only slash and stab....
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Post by: Cirque on April 21, 2004, 04:10:18 pm
Wouldnt that fall under a style of fighting or a skill rather than a secondary attack? Perhaps it might not.

I was always under the impression that a well made sword (perhaps it only applies to swords from certain cultures) is perfectly balanced at the base of the blade.

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/9766/Balance.JPG)

This enables the weapon to be swung quickly and change direction easily.

Where as an axe relies upon the weight of the head to cleave, thus making it alot less agile.

So what does an axe wielder do as a secondary attack?

Also theoretically the motion you would have to go through to use the hilt in a crushing attack would make you very vunerable to damage from the opponent. So it may be more useful if you had the element of surprise. Like hitting them on the back of the head for instance.
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Post by: Quwaar on April 21, 2004, 05:59:39 pm
Yeah... A sword needs to be balanced that way, because.. well the reasons you said:)

And a blunt attack may be usefull for an assasin if he wants to stun his target, in other that kill him in one blow in the back.

Coz I am for the idea that you can kill someone in one blow. If you cut of a head, he\'s DEAD!
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Post by: Xordan on April 21, 2004, 06:09:55 pm
So your carrying a large sword... and a monk get into close quarters with you... your not going to have much swinging room... much better to whack him with the hilt for a few second stun so you can withdraw...
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Post by: Cirque on April 21, 2004, 07:15:20 pm
Who says im going to be carring a *large* sword...?

But yeah I get your point. As an alternative to your standard style of fighting in extreme circumstances. Personally id punch him or crack him with an elbow.

LOL why a \"monk\"?
Title: well
Post by: TheRedMonk on April 21, 2004, 09:07:09 pm
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CirqueLOL why a \"monk\"?
Cause Im a monk and Xordan knows hes gonna have to fight me when CB comes out. He probably just wants some advice on how to deal with me... :D

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shadowfishbut...the blade is heavier than the hilt....just because its sharp doesnt mean it can only slash and stab....
Well imagine you are fighting a big monster with a shell covering his body. What do you think will be most effective against his shell? To strike at it with the flat side of your blade or to try to crack it open with your hilt. Just trying to say that Quwaars idea wasnt stupid...
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Post by: Wormtail_ on April 22, 2004, 12:42:51 am
Striking with the hilt at a target not directly adjacent probably won\'t be that effective, as the hilt is not that long. And gripping a sword by the blade probably wouldn\'t be too effective, either. On the other hand, as Xordan said, if you are in very close combat and are wielding a sword... Well, you have to do something *very* quickly, and that is to strike with the hilt.
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Post by: Cirque on April 22, 2004, 05:46:13 am
I would still like to know what axe users use as an alternative. The handle of an axe isnt going to be useful like a swords. Unless it has like a spear head on the bottom of the handle, which in that case it would be a specially designed weapon I would imagine.
Title: well..
Post by: TheRedMonk on April 22, 2004, 10:16:12 am
Id say it depends on what kind of axe it is...If the blade on one side and like a pike on the other side (you know what I mean?)...then one side could do some crushing/slashing damage while the other could do piercing...does that make any sense?
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Post by: Draklar on April 22, 2004, 10:58:03 am
I\'m hitting/poking people with hilt ingame quite often :P
for axe I\'d say
normal axe - throwing
double axe - slaming one\'s head with it

but you won\'t be able to make secondary attacks for all weapons, example: flail
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Post by: Cirque on April 22, 2004, 11:05:29 am
Is this what you mean?

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1420/yeah1.JPG)
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Post by: Draklar on April 22, 2004, 11:21:17 am
like this

(http://www.mwart.com/images/p/Axes_16th_C_Gothic_Battle_Axe_8650_537.jpg)
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Post by: Cirque on April 22, 2004, 03:56:55 pm
My image and post was directed at monk.
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Post by: Draklar on April 22, 2004, 04:03:55 pm
*blinks*
I know that...
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Post by: Cirque on April 22, 2004, 04:42:31 pm
Sorry I thought you were just showing everyone an axe (a very cool looking one by the way). My sketch was just to clarify whether that is what monk meant by a pointed handle.
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Post by: Draklar on April 22, 2004, 05:05:51 pm
nay, this (http://store3.yimg.com/I/ssrglobal2_1778_389052) is cool looking axe.
Anyway, \"the blade on one side and like a pike on the other side\" - the axe I posted picture of.
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Post by: Cirque on April 22, 2004, 05:37:32 pm
LOL why didnt you post that second axe 1st? Thats exactly what I was trying to illustrate. It has the spike on the handle end of the shaft. Dare I borrow that picture and replace my unsightly Micro Paint drawing lol?

Would look crazy if you saw some hell axe wielder rocking both of those axes. Like one in each hand. I dont know the exact measurements of them but they look short and light enough to throw a short distance.
Title: ehh
Post by: TheRedMonk on April 22, 2004, 08:04:36 pm
Cirque...to be honest the axe I meant was the one Draklar showed first. I think a more common model than the one with the pike at the bottom of the shaft...the idea is really not bad. If surrounded by several enemies you could hit one in front with the shaft and another one behind with the pike.  Good job!
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Post by: XpYtZ on April 22, 2004, 09:58:13 pm
When I was learning heavy weapons we had two kinds of axesThe fighting techniques for the two were very different but to make my point.
The secondary attack for the first example was using it like a bow/stave and the second was a tripping attack or stabbing with the head (some battle axes have ?head? pieces that can be used as a spear point).
My 2 cents  :D
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Post by: Quwaar on April 22, 2004, 11:23:30 pm
nice al the replies, I thought it was gonna be a short thread and someone would just make a blunt end to my little idea.

Nice thought all, and NO not all weapons can have a secondary attack. Some just arnt able to be held differently.

I still think that it would be a great idea in the future of PS, a secondary attack. But Im not sure how they will realise it all ^^

Why al the fuzz about axes all at ones? Most axes have 2 sides... you can use 2 different sides. When one dowsnt have 2 sides... you cant ^^
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Post by: Icefalcon on April 23, 2004, 02:56:48 am
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Originally posted by Cirque
I would still like to know what axe users use as an alternative. The handle of an axe isnt going to be useful like a swords. Unless it has like a spear head on the bottom of the handle, which in that case it would be a specially designed weapon I would imagine.


Not every weapon would have to have a secondary attack... And I stand corrected with the whole sword deal, I guess the hilt would have some uses...
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Post by: Cirque on April 23, 2004, 08:30:45 am
Yeah I stand corrected also on the sword hilt idea. The hand guard would sort of act like brass knuckles.

I was thinking about a different type of sword at the time.
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Post by: Quwaar on April 23, 2004, 09:45:36 am
I just though of an othor thing we could use it for, though it is a bit far off.... You could use the hilt as a blunt attack to crush the lock of a door. Or to crack something open, I know it is very far of, and very difficult to get in PS, but it will certainly be extreem realistic :D
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Post by: Cirque on April 25, 2004, 08:47:17 am
Sounds a bit like the Thief series of games.
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Post by: Wormtail_ on April 26, 2004, 03:22:29 am
Or, depending on your armor/hand, you could bash the lock with a hard gauntlet. That might just be more convenient, plus safer, as the blade\'s not pointing at other people. Unless of course you\'re in a combat situation and need speed...