PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: SaintNuclear on April 21, 2004, 10:34:43 pm
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My char is a Kran, and I\'ll probebly stay that way after the CB purge too, but I just thought about something...
Can Krans bleed?
If a Kran gets hacked by an axe, will it just have a breaking mark like in stones, or will it actually have blood pouring out of it like living things?
Since Krans are made of silicon, and were created by magic and all, maybe they don\'t have blood?
But then how do we define \'blood\'? Is it the fluid that runs in humans and animals\' vains? If so, Krans probebly don\'t have blood. If it\'s something that passes nutrients and oxygen through the body, I guess they do have it.
If they have blood, how does it look? Is it sand that flows inside vain-like tunnels? What about the heart? Do they have a heart of stone? How does it pump the \'blood\' if it\'s made of stone?
This is actually interesting...
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I have no clue whether or not krans will bleed. If they do they might have like have liquid metal flow out. Or maybe lava, i beleive it is in some way melted rock.
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Well, if lava flows out when the Kran bleeds... than that just adds one more reason you dont wana get into a fist fight with one of them...
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that could be like a character specfic type attack. they could flare there hands up and punch for like some sorta fire punch thingy!
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Acutally I was thinking something like that except the lava will harden around the kran and his defence will skyrocket but his agility will slow down. This will go away if he dies or if it wares off. It is triggered when a kran has 10% of his health left.
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not bad Xelex that could be the defence move and the fire punch is an offensive move. another move is possible if the kran has enough health or so it can sacrifice health in order to spew lava from its mouth or something.
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Yeah you should start something like this in the Wish List.
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Lava is impossible...How would it keep it hot enough without melting itself?
What it could have is water running around inside it, smae as us. It would not need red blood cells because Krans do not breath (Red blood cells are used to transport oxygen).
Hmm...The whole question of a Kran\'s respiration and sources of energy come to mind though. Does anyone have any idea how these might work? If you just use normal respiration instead of CO2 it would exhale SiO2 (sand) but we know it doesn\'t breathe. Still I imagine silicon-based organic compounds would be easier to break down than carbon-based compounds (what with carbon being more reactive and all).
So...Any ideas?
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The whole reason to play a fantasy game is to stray away from reality. They are polar opposites. If you want to be all logical save it for school. In a fantasy ANYTHING is possible....except reality.
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You can\'t just throw the \"Er...\'Tis magic!\" argument in someone\'s face whenever you can\'t explain something. We\'re out of the medieval ages you know. If we can use science to explain how Kran function, it will be much better than saying \"They do...So there. Oh yeah, and they have uber-lava attacks because they\'re walking rocks.\"
Even magic can be explained scientifically -_-
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well I think their blodd should be like fine sand, like stabbing an hourglass, and they heal by maybe crystalising over the wound, like those cool \"grow your own crystal things you can buy at museums(they are SO cool) :)
and heck I wouldnt worry to much about reality in games, hell the klyros can fly and ther wings are itty bitty wiidle fings, any hang glider would think that this is just silly( or supremely cool, hang gliders are funny bout things)
it all comes down to creative licence
and as far as \"er.. its magic\" thats nothing when copmpared to the \"well..I say so, so :P\" response :)
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Hmmm, making a Kran bleed... that would be like getting blood out of a stone! :D
*budum-tiisshh!*
Er, anyways, Kran arn\'t completely stone, are they? They are living, moving creatures, after all. If they were 100% stone, they wouldn\'t have muscles. And without muscles, you don\'t move.
I think the stone parts of a Kran would be their so-called \"Kran natural armour\", mentioned on the website. These bits wouldn\'t bleed. But if you attacked a joint, or someplace that isn\'t as armoured, then that\'s perhaps where it could bleed from.
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i think Kran should crumble ...fall into pieces
as i remember it says in the Kran description that their skin is (as) hard (as) rock, it cannot be penetrated, but can crumble and crack ...when that happenes, there\'s a real problem healing it back
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hmmm looks like im the last person who doesnt want the krans to bleed... my theory is that krans dont have blood that there are really shaped stones held together by magic. no blood what-so-ever. i think we should just hit them untill they start to crumble and limbs fall off, etc. This would create a strategy for the kran. EG: if a mage casts counter magic, the kran would essentially start falling apart. or if you cast a water spell it would start to erode. this would be a character unmatched in non magical weapon melee fighting but very vunerable in magic fighting. just my 2 cents though.
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is it true that because krans are rocks they are hard to damage with cutting weapons but are weak against clubbing weapons. i\'m also a kran and seem to remember reading that somewhere
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what happens when you heat up silicone?
thats the answer :D
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Kran are not rocks. As I remember, they are silicon based organisms, which is a purely theoretical of course.
Kran are waaay more complex than rocks. In fact, calling a Kran a rock is like calling us a puddle of water. It\'s somewhat true, but there\'s so much more.
We have to look at it from a chemical point of view. Carbon is in the same group as silicon, so they bond the same way. However, carbon dioxide is a gas, while silicon oxide is a solid (sand).
Would this work? Perhaps Kran eat sand and release oxygen, like photosynthesis. Hmm...
+++Update+++
Kran might be complex diatoms. In RL diatoms are simple single-celled organisms which use silicon compounds to form protective shells around themselves. However they are still carbon-based.
Kran might be something similar, in that they are carbon-based on the inside and form silicon-based natural armour around themselves. In this case they would have normal blood (though they might use some other substance rather than haemoglobin to transport oxygen around). The only problem is that this would make them carbon based, rather than silicon based.
The ideal conditions for a silicon-based organism to occur are high tempreatures and pressures. However these conditions would be hazardous to carbon-based organisms.
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Did some reading on silicon and it seems that it melts are very high temperatures, but if combined with other elements can be somewhat resistant to excessive heat.
Someone want to confirm this?
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I suppose so. Then again you need high tempreatures to form the complex molecules of life based on silicon.
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I just did some in depth searching and came up with this. It could still be wrong though but it looked legit.
Melting point: 1414 ?C, 2577 ?F
Boiling point: 2900 ?C, 5252 ?F
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Aye, but silicon-based doesn\'t mean they\'re made of pure silicon.
We\'re carbon based and we\'re not made of graphite or diammond (Although granted if you burn us we\'ll turn into graphite).
Sugar, wood, plastic, all those are carbon based. Doesn\'t mean they\'ve goit the properties of carbon.
One of the first things you\'re taught in science class is that when you join elements into compounds, the compound will have much different properties. An example of this is the heating of iron and sulphur. The result looks a bit like iron but it cannot be attracted by a magnet and has a (lower?) melting point.
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Thanks professor.
I understand that. Thats why I mentioned in an earlier post that silicon may react differently when combined with other elements. :)
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Would this work? Perhaps Kran eat sand and release oxygen, like photosynthesis. Hmm...
well Kran do use crystals which is in the sand family.
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Hmm...Silicon crystalls huh? It would work. So...They wouldn\'t breathe, just exhale oxygen through their \'pores\'?
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Sorry I had to sleep so I missed all of this.
True some parts of fantasy MMORPG games are true. Like if you are attacked by fire you get burned etc. but if everything in a fantasy game was scientific we couldn\'t call it a fantasy game. It would be like what really happened in the medeival ages.
Oh and karakth because you were the one who started all theis logic. If you do want to be so \"logical\" I am sure we could agree in the medeival ages krans never existed. So karakth you have to let somethings go just because.
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Fine...But we have to keep a limit. Lava blood is...forgive the term, stupid.
Diatoms would explain a great deal and allow Kran to bleed when they\'re pierced in joints. Red blood.
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Yeah, a fantasy game shouldn\'t have a 100% real-life science, but some things are just so idiotic in any other way, that they have to be like real-life science.
The lava-blood is one such thing.
About the Krans-don\'t-breath thing. I don\'t feel like going and giving an exact quote, but check the Krans page in the Setting. It says that oxygen can get attached to silicon, and that\'s how they breath. But they don\'t actually breath like humans or other animals (lungs, etc).
Although it\'s probebly not going to happen, I kinda hoped to hear an official word from the god of Krans, Talad about this... He created Krans, so he gotta know something about them! :P
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I still thing it would be a good idea to have a kran get a skyrocketing defence before they die like maybe a 15% def increase and a 15% agility decrease when their hp gets to 10% or under.
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Why?
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When humans breathe, we inhale O2 (a molocule comprised of 2 oxygen atoms) along with various other gasses like Nitrogen, that have no real effect on us. However, when we breathe out we emit CO2. However, we don\'t have big lumps of carbon in our lungs, so where does it come from? Ourselves. When the red blood cells exchange the oxygen, they take the spent O2, now bonded to a Carbon atom given by one of our cells, and release it as CO2.
This is how we can suffocate ourselves if we have a plastic bag over our head. Eventually, we fill the bag with our spent oxgen. Ironically, there could very well be a large portion of oxygen left in the bag, as lungs are a very inneficent way of breathing (only 10% of what we exhale or some # close to there is CO2.)
It could very well be the same with Kran, where if you encased them in a bag they would eventually suffocate due to the lack of oxygen. However, instead of Carbon, they put Silicon in the place, thus releasing SiO2... or sand. However, this is very slow, as:
Silicon still supports oxygen linkages, so Kran breathe much more slowly than other races, enabling them to happily breathe underwater
They don\'t have lungs and they dont need them; they breathe through their skin as if it were a massive gill. They\'re basically eroding away as time passes, however slowly. To stop this from happening, they would have to digest silicon to replace whatever they lost due to their \"breathing.\" They would then, obviously, eat things with silicon and various other elements in them. It is also noted that their \"kitchens\" are like chemical labs, which means that whatever they eat could certainly be highly-dangerous to other species, if not in the end result, then in the creation of the food.
They would most likely eat by grinding the \"food\" into sand-sized particles, then let them slide down to their \"stomach.\" As far as we\'re concerned, that\'s where the digestive tract stops. After the \"food\" has been digested by the kran\'s stomach acids (perhaps strong enough to break chemical bonds) it would then most likely be absorbed through the stomach walls and then, under capillary action, simply \"seep\" to the kran\'s skin, where it replaces what parts were lost.
As far as the movement, it could very well be that the kran DO have muscles, but not in a biological sense. Perhaps they have a material used as a muscle that expands and contracts 100 or even 1000 times more then a normal peice of metal does when heated, which would allow them to eat their food and move their tough skin. For a brain... Well, think of a computer\'s CPU! However, this \"computer\" brain would not operate on C++, but instead use chemical markers and various other elements and molocules of matter for memory and action dictation; but always with silicon as the main component.
As for reproduction, they may simply \"seed\" like a flower does. A small area on their body grows to resemble a simple kran, and the new kran simply drops off and begins to feast on whatever kran food there is nearby. Perhaps even dropping the \"seed\" kran into a pile of sand and chemicals used to develope their body. Haha. A good kran spa could be considered a pool of quicksand with various rare and color-tinted crystals growing nearby. :D
Well... there goes 20 minutes of my life. Oh well. :rolleyes:
[for further referance, think of a Kran\'s arm as a tree trunk. In the center is the main \"vein\" of the body part, that contains all the nutrients and materials needed for growth. Everything else is \"dead\" like a tree\'s bark, even though the bark of the tree still serves the purpose of protecting the vein of the limb. As the kran grows, the limb heals, albiet very slowly. If i were to compare Kran to anything, it\'d be a tree.
As a side note - Any sort of catalyst or enzyme that speeds the chemical reaction between silicon and oxygen would litterally turn Kran into dust. 8o Thus, if a Kran were to meet a feeble, old [insert race here] and the old person were to throw a container of this catalyst at the Kran, it\'d be instant death.]
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Good work. I think its possible some people were associating the humanoid form with how humans actually breath.
There was a very old episode of Star Trek that was about a silicon based life form attacking a mining colony. Turns out it was just protecting its young (insert moral here). From memory Spok (spelling) went into some discussion about how it may function.
I believe that the creature had highly acidic blood and used acid to borrow around through rock. If theres any Trekis here perhaps you could offer some information.
^^^Biol, chem student Saphire?^^^
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No, i just picked it up as i live my life. :D
Most of it\'s just guesswork and simple 2+2=4, though.
Wow, all that and i still didn\'t explain how Krans bleed. LOL! 8o
Anyways, the way Kran bleed would be very similar to a tree; Krans have a sort of sappy, sticky substance in what you could call their veins, which when it comes into contact with a un-bonded O2 molocule, becomes similar to a jell, which later hardens and falls off like any normal human\'s scab. After awhile, the Kran regenerates and it\'s wounded flesh flakes off, revealing a newer, shining - and most importantly unwouned - surface of silicon flesh.
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i\'m an old trekkie fan and i remember that episode the lifeform was like a big blob and it had a hard outer shell they had to use phazer\'s to break a piece off a piece so they could study it.
it was more like a large single cell organism but it was inteligent and spock did a mind meld with it to find out what it wanted. that\'s all i remember about that show it has been a long time since i saw that one :D
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If what you guys are saying is true, then most likely a Kran is not pure Silicon, its probabaly got some impurities.
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Even if Krans wanted to breathe, they still couldn\'t.
A silicon-based life form means that its molecular building blocks are silicon-based. Human beings are carbon-based, because we are composed of complex organic molecules with carbon backbones (think DNA, Krebs cycle, &c.).
Carbon\'s valence shell is half-empty/half-filled, so it allows for easy bonding with other carbon molecules, allowing it to form these complex chains (organic molecules). Complex structures are the building blocks of all life on Earth.
Silicon has the same properties valence shell as a carbon molecule, so people generally thought: \"Well, if carbon-based life forms exist, why not silicon-based life forms?\"
BUT, and this is a large but:
The silicon atom is larger, and so its bonds with other elements are weaker. Just look at what happens when two oxygen molecules bond to carbon/silicon; in one case we have carbon dioxide, in the other, sand.
So basically, Krans wouldn\'t be able to breathe (at least, not the air that a human could breathe), and if it didn\'t breathe, it couldn\'t possibly have any use for blood. Of course, a Kran would be incapable of having complex structures like a cell, because of silicon\'s chemical properties, so it would be impossible for them to have muscles, or any means of physical locomotion other than being pushed by the wind.
Pure silicon forms into crystals, eventually, with enough heat and a silicon-seed. The crystals would be extremely abnormal, so it doesn\'t make much sense that they could all just grow into humanoid shapes.
Of course, this is a fantasy world, and anything goes. The Kran would be a being of magic, or something. Science plausibility doesn\'t need to exist in video games -- of course, if it does, things make much more sense.
The point is, the Kran couldn\'t possibly have lungs (since they lack the basic properties to be able to have cellular structures). As well, they wouldn\'t eat normal foods, since as a silicon-based life form, their metabolic processes would be based on silicon-based molecules, rather than carbon-based molecules (like a human). And since the Kran can\'t have cells, once again, due to the chemical properties of the silicon atom, it can\'t have blood cells, it can\'t possibly garner any use for oxygen (which is used in human cells). So, in short, Krans could not breathe. Nor would they have blood. Unless, of course, they had it for no reason. \"It\'s a sort of magic!\"
So thinking of a Kran in any way approximating a human would be absurd in any scientific sense. You\'d have to either blame magic for what they are, ignore the chemical/biological properties en masse, or somehow change what they are to afford for these errors.
Then again, it\'s fantasy. People can think up whatever they want.
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You need to read the Setting...
Krans eat mineral rich materials.
And since they eat, they need blood. Blood carries nutrients to all parts of the body, not only oxygen. And even if they don\'t have cells blood would be efficent for delivering the nutrients and oxygen to all parts of the body.
Think of a glass of water, you pour into it one of those concentrated yucky instant juices things. It takes alot of time for the concentrated juice to spread in the water. Now, if there was a network of tiny pipes that could deliver the juice to all parts of the glass, it would spread easier.
Same with blood vessels, they\'re there so the nutrients and oxygen will be delivered to all parts of the body faster. Krans eat, so they need blood vessels. The blood don\'t have to be red blood cells to be called blood.
Krans don\'t need lungs, as they breath through their skin. From the skin it reaches blood vessels, and gets carried to all parts of the body.
They don\'t necessarily dissolve due to the silicon and oxygen connection. But who said that Krans breath and their body becomes SiO2? Maybe they got 4 oxygen atoms attaching into each silicon molecule? Maybe 3? Or 1?.
I just read a bit about SiO (check this (http://www.cerac.com/pubs/proddata/sio.htm))), couldn\'t find much about SiO3 or 4.
From what I read about it, it seems like it could be what Krans are made of.
Oxygen gets attached to their skin, creating SiO2. One of the oxygen atoms break and attach to one of the near silicon atoms. The skin keeps attaching oxygen atoms into itself, and transferring them to the other silicon atoms.
The oxygen atoms slowly reach the blood vessels. In the blood vessels the oxygen atoms get attached to silicon atoms and form sand.
The sand (Kran blood) flows in the vessels.
From here it\'s just like human blood, only with molecules and atoms instead of cells. The oxygen leaves the sand molecules and gets attached to silicon atoms, forming SiO.
This probebly explains things. Can anyone that actually learned chemistry confirm this? :P
vordul
Pure silicon forms into crystals, eventually, with enough heat and a silicon-seed. The crystals would be extremely abnormal, so it doesn\'t make much sense that they could all just grow into humanoid shapes.
I think that this can definitly be answered with \"it\'s magic\". We shouldn\'t forget that Krans were created by magic afterall.
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Good...Now we\'re getting somewhere :)
Let\'s look at the whole point of eating: Energy.
We use oxygen because when you react it with sugar (carbon-based) it gives off tons of energy which we can use to move about, think, etc.
What would a Kran do with Oxygen? It would have to eat silicon-based sugar (Si6H12O6) which can\'t really exist unless you create it at high temperatures and pressures.
What if perhaps a form of \"magic\" provides heat and pressure inside a Kran?
I still think it would work best if Kran were diatoms. Their body would function normally as a human being\'s, but the cells along the skin would provide a protective epidermis of silicon-based chemicals.
Also, silicon is very conductive, so I\'m guessing their brains would be largely silicon-based (i.e. The axons and dendrites of their neurons would be pure silicon).
Originally posted by SaintNuclear
Oxygen gets attached to their skin, creating SiO2. One of the oxygen atoms break and attach to one of the near silicon atoms. The skin keeps attaching oxygen atoms into itself, and transferring them to the other silicon atoms.
The oxygen atoms slowly reach the blood vessels. In the blood vessels the oxygen atoms get attached to silicon atoms and form sand.
The sand (Kran blood) flows in the vessels.
From here it\'s just like human blood, only with molecules and atoms instead of cells. The oxygen leaves the sand molecules and gets attached to silicon atoms, forming SiO.
What would be the point of that? And Krans wouldn\'t be made up of SiO, because the molecule is just too simple to support life.
Hmm...Then again, what if a Kran would work like this:
The main part of Krans would be made of one type of silicon-based compound, which responds differently when reacted with various chemicals.
Running down the Kran\'s middle, in the place of a spine is an organ which has a vast storage of different chemicals. This organ is connected via silicon neurons to the Kran\'s brain. When the brain gives the signal, the organ releases the type of chemical into an area of the Kran\'s body, making it react accordingly.
So, if a Kran wanted to move his finger, a message would be sent to the organ, which would then release the chemical into the finger area to make the silicon-based compound act accordingly.
To mantain this vast number of chemicals, the Kran would have to eat a lot of mineral-rich foods to get as many different chemicals as possible.
The chemicals could all require oxygen to make.
So, in effect, if a Kran stops breathing he will stop moving and functioning after a while (when the chemicals run out).
This explains why Krans move slowly as well as why they can go long period of time without oxygen.
And yes, I do realise that this goes against the background.
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Magic.
There you now know how and why Krans function.
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LOL. This is fun... :]
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You know what Aendar? And all you other people who go \"It\'s magic! No more explanation is needed, surely?\" are all living in medieval times. Which is alright since this is a medieval game. Here\'s an idea...While we\'re at it, let\'s pretend it\'s all the matrix so it doesn\'t have to make sense!
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Originally posted by karakth
And yes, I do realise that this goes against the background.
Actually, it\'s not. You said that Krans need oxygen and minerals to maintain these chemicals they got, and in the Krans page it says they eat minerals and breath oxygen. So it doen\'t go against the background.
Originally posted by karakth
While we\'re at it, let\'s pretend it\'s all the matrix so it doesn\'t have to make sense!
lmfao
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I don\'t believe ordinary chemistry would be sufficient to explain the rocky Kran(s?) (Is the plural of Kran really Krans? Seems unnatural.) Silicon-based lifeforms have been debated endlessly before, especially by Trekkies. For all we know, however, \"ordinary\" chemistry isn\'t the way things work in the Planeshift world. Supposedly Kran eat crystals, which are a form of nutrients. Since magic in Planeshift seems to be related in some way to crystals, perhaps consuming these crystals provides both minerals and magical energies. An injured Kran might just \"chip\", or perhaps some watery fluid would leak (maybe even oil! hmm... \"Kran oil beauty products\", wonder how those would sell..) If instead of being truly \"rocky\" they simply are very thick-skinned and big boned, they must have a very peculiar digestive system if they are to eat rocks. Having a biological explanation seems more satisfying than relying on Kran simply being magically-constructed golems of stone.
So yes, \"magic\" is how they work, but what we\'re looking for is *details*. Do Kran have organic brains? How about muscles? Or is their movement accomplished by magical currents causing rock to deform?
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There are definitly magical aspects in the Krans (I prefer to call them Krans :P), and it\'s not all scientific.
I think that the movement, for example, is magical.
Let\'s take an arm for example. It\'s ordered to move from the Kran\'s brain, it needs nutrients (or chemical reaction, whatever) to be able to move, but the thing that actually move it is magic.
Originally posted by dfryer
If instead of being truly \"rocky\" they simply are very thick-skinned and big boned, they must have a very peculiar digestive system if they are to eat rocks.
But they\'re not just thick-skinned and big boned. They\'re made of silicon. They were created by Talad from the rocks. They might have organic materials in them, etc, but most of their body is silicon.
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The Kran would be incapable of having blood for reasons I already stated. Silicon-based life form, by definition, means that it\'s building blocks are based on silicon. Which, basically, means that you replace all the carbon atoms in a human with silicon, and you\'d have a silicon-based being. Of course, no cells would be created, nor complex organic molecules (needed to make blood, needed to make cells, needed to make * in the human body).
Of course magic is the only explanation, because a Kran could not possibly exist in reality. So don\'t try to give reasons why a Kran can exist, or why they can bleed, because it just can\'t happen.
They should just remove the background page and say \"it\'s magic!\" because it\'s just making people think absurd, silly things.
I like the whole magic reasoning far more than I like misrepresented information and pseudo-scientific lies.
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Who the hell said blood must be organic?
Water, filled with minerals and metals and various other chemical compounds. A chemical for sealing wounds, and a chemical for transportation of various things.
There\'s the krans\' blood.
You can think whatever you want, \"it\'s magic!\" but have you ever thought that it might actually be fun to think of how something works other then saying \"it\'s magic!\"?
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Return to your farms, pesants! Continue to think of Krans as magic beings, as you have been rightfully taught! This place is a place of madmen and philosophers, not for the likes of you! (Please refrain from burning this place down though...That means no flaming for those of you who didn\'t understand).
Right, now that they\'re out of the way, lets try and reson out blood.
To understand blood, we\'ll have to delve into what makes a Kran tick.
Where does a Kran get energy? What are the minerals the Kran would have to eat?
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Originally posted by Saphire
You can think whatever you want, \"it\'s magic!\" but have you ever thought that it might actually be fun to think of how something works other then saying \"it\'s magic!\"?
Let\'s not lose sight of the fact that Talad magically created this race from ordinary rock. ;) Next thing you know, everyone will start arguing \"how did he do that?\"
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Science was considered magic back in the middle ages.
What if this magic in PS is science which we yet have to discover?
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Originally posted by Mogura
Next thing you know, everyone will start arguing \"how did he do that?\"
That\'s a good point... How the hell did he do that?!
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Magic is always only \'undiscovered science\'. But this is a fantasy game, anything goes, people arn\'t supposed to ask questions about every little detail. Especially since we, the players, are supposed to be in with this setting, and if this was RP we wouldn\'t even consider the possibility that magic wasn\'t the answer.
Just think of it as a religion. ;)
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Originally posted by karakth
You know what Aendar? And all you other people who go \"It\'s magic! No more explanation is needed, surely?\" are all living in medieval times. Which is alright since this is a medieval game. Here\'s an idea...While we\'re at it, let\'s pretend it\'s all the matrix so it doesn\'t have to make sense!
First, the Matrix makes sense, watch it again.
Second, are you asking for realism in a MMORPG with elves, stone-creatures and magically spawned crystals?
Everything doesn\'t need an explanation, just float with it.
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We\'re not trying to find the realistic aspects in PS, what we\'re doing, is trying to understand the Krans better. Why are we doing it? Because it\'s fun.
Btw, elves can be explained scientifically, and the so-called \'magically\' spawned crystals can too... But that should go on another thread.
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Originally posted by SaintNuclear
We\'re not trying to find the realistic aspects in PS, what we\'re doing, is trying to understand the Krans better. Why are we doing it? Because it\'s fun.
Btw, elves can be explained scientifically, and the so-called \'magically\' spawned crystals can too... But that should go on another thread.
Those should be rather interesting explanations, just as interesting as how Krans can live.
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Originally posted by Saphire
Who the hell said blood must be organic?
Water, filled with minerals and metals and various other chemical compounds. A chemical for sealing wounds, and a chemical for transportation of various things.
There\'s the krans\' blood.
You can think whatever you want, \"it\'s magic!\" but have you ever thought that it might actually be fun to think of how something works other then saying \"it\'s magic!\"?
Silicon-based molecules are not organic by definition. So, of course a Kran could not be considered organic in the least.
But, blood, by definition, is organic.
\"Blood: Major fluid transport medium of many animal groups [...] Comprises an aqueous mixture of substances in solution [...] in which are suspended cells [...] Blood is moved by muscle contraction in some of the vessels it pulses through. Hearts are such specialized vessels.\"
From: Dictionary of Biological Terms, 12th Ed.
So they can\'t have blood. The Kran would lack:
a) Soluble, complex molecules could not be formed. Silicon compounds are not soluble in water.
b) Silicon-based cellular structures are impossible. Therefore there could be no muscles, nor contracting vessels. So the blood wouldn\'t be able to flow, rendering it completely useless.
Perhaps you don\'t understand the purpose; the purpose was to figure out if Kran bleed. They can\'t, it would be impossible.
Therefore, you\'d have to chalk it up to magic. You can attempt to explain things, but this is unexplanable. The Kran would have to be magically animate, because as it stands, any system involving: a) complex molecules, b) cellular structures would be impossible.
About all Kran would be capable of having is form and perhaps some sort of neural system somewhat like silicon-chipsets, although there\'d be no storage devices or functionality, since those are not made of silicon-based products.
It may be fun to think of reasons why something works, but in this case, it\'s futile -- give up.
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silicon is about the closest you can get to carbon, element-wise.. so there\'s a slight possibility (a possibility greater than any other elemental based life, except for carbon of course) that silicon based \"life\" can be found somewhere in the universe..
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Right...Yes, ok. So, as a conclusion to this thread, let\'s recap:
-> Krans do not have lava blood.
-> Krans do not have blood.
-> Krans cannot exist, but do so magically.
-> They are Silicon-based, though this could be just a figure of speech.
-> They crumble when hit.
Right...Anyone want to add something else?
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- Immune to poison/disease (which means that said posions/diseases have no biological systems on which to effect)
- Resistant/Immune to magic which, ironically, is supposed to have created them.
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Originally posted by Mogura
Magic is always only \'undiscovered science\'. But this is a fantasy game, anything goes, people arn\'t supposed to ask questions about every little detail. Especially since we, the players, are supposed to be in with this setting, and if this was RP we wouldn\'t even consider the possibility that magic wasn\'t the answer.
Just think of it as a religion. ;)
something like i said. ya know anything goes.
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Btw, does anyone know what the Krans\' \"different means of reproduction are?
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I think someone tried to think what it means in one of the posts here...
And no, I don\'t think anyone knows... Except, maybe, Talad.
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Woot! This is my first post!
Anyway,
In fantasy type games(Dungeons&Dragons, etc.) can\'t magic theoretically make anything possible, provided that the mage is powerful enough?
And also, whoever created the Kran, why would he/she create organs, make it bleed, etc. etc...
If someone really created it, wouldn\'t he/she make every feature of it actually have a reason, or have some purpose?
As for the question if Krans can bleed or not, why don\'t you ask the mage who created the Kran? Usually bleeding is a weakness, so why would the mage provide that feature? (Unless it was a defense mechanism, that\'s a whole different story)
Also, about the resistant, immune magic thing...
Let\'s say a mage casts a damaging spell that uses magical energy. What would stop it from crumbling or damaging the Kran? Or even better, what if the mage casts a conjuration spell that summons a giant boulder which materializes onto this plane that smashes the Kran? Unless the mage imbued the Kran with some power or resistance, there is no reason it should be resistant against magic...
And another thing, when Mogura asked,
\"How the hell did he do that?\"
You would need a bit more information, like the language of magic in Planeshift, how mana works, how mages shape magic into what they want, blah blah. So before anyone can discuss on magic and the Kran, you would have to know about the system of magic, which the devs haven\'t even released yet...or even some kind of history...
If it were up to me, I would ask the devs about the Kran. We can sit here and post all day, but it has to be the devs that create the history, origin, properties, etc. of every SINGLE ASPECT IN THE WORLD OF PLANESHIFT.
Yes, yes, I know I\'m a newbie, I know I know nothing about science or Planeshift, but this is my opinion.
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Welcome to the forum. Some good points there.
\"Yes, yes, I know I\'m a newbie, I know I know nothing about science or Planeshift, but this is my opinion.\"
Nothing wrong with that.
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Originally posted by Flamin_Newb
In fantasy type games(Dungeons&Dragons, etc.) can\'t magic theoretically make anything possible, provided that the mage is powerful enough?
Yes.
Originally posted by Flamin_Newb
And also, whoever created the Kran, why would he/she create organs, make it bleed, etc. etc...
Let\'s take humans as an example.
Most people belive that humans were created by a god, or gods. Humans can bleed, and they got organs.
So the fact that someone, or something, was created by magic doesn\'t mean it\'ll be immune to everything that exists, and have no organs, or won\'t be able to bleed.
Originally posted by Flamin_Newb
If someone really created it, wouldn\'t he/she make every feature of it actually have a reason, or have some purpose?
Organs and blood have purposes. Without them, people can\'t live.
Originally posted by Flamin_Newb
As for the question if Krans can bleed or not, why don\'t you ask the mage who created the Kran?
I had hoped he\'ll answer here, it\'s probebly not going to happen, but still. Btw, it\'s a god, and his name is Talad.
Originally posted by Flamin_Newb
Usually bleeding is a weakness, so why would the mage provide that feature? (Unless it was a defense mechanism, that\'s a whole different story)
Actually, bleeding isn\'t a weakness. It might be seen as one in the eyes of anyone living in a fantasy world, but blood is actually very important, and yes, it is also a defence mechanism.
Blood carries nutrients, oxygen, and toxins through the body. The toxins are carried to be thrown out of the body (one of these methods is urine), or taken to be broken in the liver. The nutrients and oxygen are delivered to the cells, so the cells can live.
It got a very important defence factor too. If you get cut, there are certain things in your blood (forgot the name) that clog up in the cut to prevent blood from pouring out.
So it is important, it is defencive, and it\'s not a weakness.
Originally posted by Flamin_Newb
And another thing, when Mogura asked,
\"How the hell did he do that?\"
She was sarcastic :P
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lol, I feel very stupid now :(
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Mm but magic is slightly different in Planeshift. The power to cast comes from the Azure Sun and glyphs, rather than the caster himself.
As for Kran and magic disabilities, could it not be that Krans use most of the magic (mana) they get from the Azure Sun in staying alive, and only have a small amount leftover to cast spells?
In which case the Kran would be a magical being, so the topic shifts from a biological to a half-magic half-biological discussin.
So...How could magic aid in the sustaining of a Kran\'s life?
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It flows through them, allowing them movement and thinking. The magic is held in an organ in their stomach, wich is also the place where the minerals they eat are digested.
The magic keeps itself alive thanks to the miverals they eat. Without both light from the crystal and minerals as food, the magic slowly fades away. When they\'re out of magic, they\'re nothing but a piece of statue.
Although probebly very few, the Kran magicians can use the magic in their stomach as exomagic and cast it out of them like any other magician does. Under the light of the crystal, more magic is added. If they\'re not under the light of the crystal, they need to rest, so the magic duplicates itself slowly, or they can drink a magical potion that gives a boost of magical energy that is stored in their stomach.
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But then Krans can\'t get out of Yliakum (i.e. Go past the bronze doors). Then again if all magic failed without the Azure Sun, mages would be in a right old pickle.
It\'s an interesting theory St. Nuclear, but I think it weakens the Kran a bit too much.
Perhaps instead of the Azure Sun, the Krans can get their magical energy wimply from the minerals within their food?
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You missed this
Originally posted by SaintNuclear
The magic keeps itself alive thanks to the miverals they eat. Without both light from the crystal and minerals as food, the magic slowly fades away.
It means that they need either one of them to sustain. When both are gone, the magic is gone.
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But then would that mean that while they\'re under the Azure Sun, they don\'t have to eat?
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Than they need to eat even while in the light of the crystal because.... Erm..... Oh, because if they\'re wounded it heals them. Not as much as a healing potion, but still.
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Kran
Physical Traits
They belong more to the mineral kingdom than to the animal one. Their organism is the only one, amongst the known races, to be based on silicon instead of carbon. They appear as humanoids made of rock. The color of the body is mainly gray or black and slightly wrinkled, with colored veins different from individual to individual. Some rare Kran have a different colored skin, like white, azure or pink, which is highly appreciated by Kran. Their head is slightly lengthened at the top, without ears and nose. They are born underground and none of them has ever seen the light of the sun. They are from 1.90 m to 2.10 m tall.
Abilities and fields of interest
Because their skin is made of silicon, the Kran are very resistant to laceration but, lacking flexibility, is more easily damaged by bludgeoning weapons. Silicon still supports oxygen linkages, so Kran breathe much more slowly than other races, enabling them to happily breathe underwater. Without ears, they perceive sounds thanks to vibrations on their bodies. Strong and tireless, Kran are as resistant as the rock that they were born from. Since magic was created to act on different principles, it seems to have little effect on them. Also, the way in which they reproduce is incompatible with all other races: there are no half-breed Kran.
Psychology
They are not one of most intelligent races of Yliakum, but they tend to be loyal and firm in their beliefs.
Nutrition
Kran metabolism is very complex, they are used to eat sand of various and precious minerals that are digested in their stomach thanks to strong acids. They can also eat food full of mineral salts like seaweed and some crystals created in their kitchen, similar to chemical laboratories.
So...They eat sand with precios minerals.
They do have skin made of silicon (I appologise to whoever I contradicted about this)
And also, if you read the physical traits, they have \"colored veins different from individual to individual.\" This means that they have to bleed, albeit when one of their veins is broken by a bludgeoning weapon.
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Originally posted by karakth
And also, if you read the physical traits, they have \"colored veins different from individual to individual.\" This means that they have to bleed, albeit when one of their veins is broken by a bludgeoning weapon.
Damn, I read that page so many times, quoting it and basing theories on it, and in all those times I missed that line :rolleyes:
So they got blood... Hmm... Now, where are all those skeptics that said \"bla bla bla only magic bla bla bla\" and \"nooooo no blood, 1337!\"? :P
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Hehe, don\'t feel too bad...I overlooked that too until last night.
Oh btw...A kwik kran pun:
So whenever you see a female Kran, you\'re going to say,\"Those are so not real!\" :D
Sorry, I couldn\'t resist.
I\'m still curious as to what the \"blood\" contains; How about water which is constantly flowing so that it dislodges sand from the silicon and moves it to (the stomache?) where it is broken down into silicon again and the oxygen used for Talad knows what reason.
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There\'s somehting wrong about the joke... Krans don\'t have males or females. According to the char creation menu, they got None instead...
But I don\'t get it, why would they digest their own by-products (sand)?
How about, they\'ll have this organ thing, wich produces sand. The sand goes into the blood, and flows in it. When the Kran gets hit, and blood starts pouring out, the sand clogs up in that place, preventing blood from pouring (like those things in our blood).
Then, another organ produces some type of acid, the acid flows in the blood until it reaches the clog. In there, it takes the oxygen from the sand, and makes it silicon again (unless they\'re using silicon dioxyde or trioxyde or something, in wich case it\'s base and not acid). And that heals the wound :D
It\'s just like in humans blood, only instead of having the clog fall off, it becomes part of their body.
That\'s all I can think of their blood atm...
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It wouldn\'t be a by-product as such. They breathe through their skin, having O2 bonding with the Si which creates sand. The sand is dragged off by the blood to an organ where O2 is released from it. And as we all know, O2 has many wonderful uses, including releasing energy and blah blah blah.
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ok, this thread just makes me angry...
....first of all, krans could not have blood.... at all. Everything that you could possibly think of would erode it from the inside out. Sand, being made of grains of rock, if flowing through the krans\' \"veins\" would surely wear it down to nothing. The stupid comment of lava, would just melt it out-right. Gas would cause it to crack and break. Water would just wear it down.
.... so sadly, as much as you all are going to hate it, krans can only be answered in that hated phrase \"\'Tis Magic!!\". It\'s an MMORPG, so frankily, I don\'t think anyone would care much. So I suggest all of you who spent so much wasted time here trying to come up with scientific explainations for a fantasy game to sit down, and look at your life, and ask yourself \"What the hell am I doing?\". Because fantasy is supposed to escape logic, and make no sense, because it contains magic. With what you are proposing, there would be no point of krans, they would either be the strongest, or weakest of races. To go with a scientific explanation, they would be extremely weak... vulnerability to the elements, vulnerability to magic, bashing bludgeons, and slicing swords, with krans having a slow regeneration rate, they would have extremely short life-spans, and be completely horrible to play.
However, to go with fantical explinations would be as equally bad... fire-breathing, rock-hard, impenetrable walking fortresses? C\'mon, that just plain isn\'t fair...
So I say just leave them as humanoids with a \"durable\" shell-like skin.
P.S. I, myself am a kran
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\"colored veins different from individual to individual.\"
That makes me think of a colored vein of rock running through another type of rock. Not veins such as the blood vessels in humans.
Example: a vein of obsidian running through a kran made of granite.
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I agree the viens are not veins of Kran blood, they are streaks of minerals that give them color.
The question that is how to roleplay your Kran. If it is decided that Krans do not have lava blood, or any blood at all, then when in game it would be bad roleplay to emote a comment about your molen rock blood burning everyone arround.
The \"because its magic\" argument is bogus because it gives your vertually nothing to talk about. In some games it is the Dwarves that are made out of stone. This is not too far fetched considering some think humans were made from clay :)
My personal vote is for Krans to be bloodless. Fighting a Kran should be like breaking up concrete with a sledge hammer. So far it sounds like the only way to combat a Kran is to run away. Hopefully they will at least run slower than other races.
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Lol if it meens the dont Breathe the also can swim underwater for al eneternity...and go to outer space without suites ^^
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Originally posted by Pyronion
the also can swim underwater for al eneternity
that would be \"stay underwater\", I don\'t see how something made of rock could swim ;)
anyway, I\'m impressed that this thread didn\'t die yet...
it\'s kinda like asking \"Can earth elementals bleed?\" if you ask me...
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Originally posted by Draklar
it\'s kinda like asking \"Can earth elementals bleed?\" if you ask me...
Not really. Elements aren\'t alive, Krans are (atleast in PS).
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yes, that might be the reason why I said \'elementals\', not \'elements\'....
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Sorry to bring this thread back to life, but I read it, and I\'m amazed at the lengths people went to explain something that noone could possibly know for sure.
who says kran \'blood\' is anything at all like the substance things have in real life? squids don\'t have red \'blood\' you know? they are real, and living, if you cut them, they \'bleed\' ink.
a kran could have anything for blood, sometihng you\'ve never heard of before, and Chemistry 101 can\'t explain.
It\'s a game.. did you know that?
If you are terribly concerned about it, ask the devs, they made the Kran. Before you say it was \'Talad\' that made the kran (this particular forum is NOT rp only) it was the devs who made the Kran, and they made Talad too![gasp]...[/gasp]
The Kran are whatever they are, because the Devs said so.
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maybe you should make so when krans armor is destroyed a little agile creature comes out of it ... and you have to eat some rocks (or wait some time) untill the new armor grows on you
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Originally posted by Adeli
a kran could have anything for blood, sometihng you\'ve never heard of before, and Chemistry 101 can\'t explain.
It\'s a game.. did you know that?
Not even once it was said in this thread that Krans bleed red human blood.
We were discussing what it could be for fun.
If you are terribly concerned about it, ask the devs, they made the Kran.
If the devs would\'ve known such details that aren\'t written in the races pages I\'m sure they would\'ve posted it here.
Before you say it was \'Talad\' that made the kran (this particular forum is NOT rp only) it was the devs who made the Kran, and they made Talad too!
You know, Talad happens to be the project leader... :rolleyes:
I don\'t see why you guys have such a big problem when other people are trying to think about the PS world for fun. Is it really that much of a problem that you can\'t even ignore it?
We\'re thinking about the setting of the game, and trying to expand what we don\'t know (and probebly wasn\'t thought about) it! That\'s all!
So if you got a problem with it, don\'t read this thread, and don\'t resurrect it.
Edit: Damn, you must be either a huge attention peanut, or care about your post count too much to resurrect a thread you think shouldn\'t have been posted in the first place :rolleyes:
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I believe that Krans indeed do have blood, which will, however, not be anything like human blood. Also, there is no problem at all with SiO2 not being soluable in water, because if the components are small enough, the turbulences in the veins will be enough to keep it from separating, which will only mean that Krans veins are shaped in a special way to create turbulences in the blood, and also to make the blood flow faster. Otherwise, I don\'t see a problem. Thus, the only problem would be how they get rid of the sand that is their version of CO2, and I\'d say they simply have it moved, not to lungs, but to the outside of their bodies, where it is deposited to either replace lost \"skin\" or just grow or maybe fall off as dust.
Furthermore, there can of course be chemical molecules that contain silicon, and I don\'t see any reason why they would not get as complex as carbon based ones (though I don\'t know much about chemistry). Therefore, they might even have some cell-like structures.
I also think their brains would be computerlike, consisting only of doped silicon for the conductors (as pure silicon isn\'t conductive, which is why processors need metal internally).
Their skin, therefore, would not be pure silicon, but a somewhat flexible compound of cell-like structures containing mainly siilicon. This way, they would indeed be less mobile but also very well armoured, and look like they look. Their insides will be similar, with organs that create the strong acids and taking in the minerals and everything else they need. The only thing I\'m not sure is how they manage to get energy from the rock, as it doesn\'t contain silicone but SiO2, which will be the product of the oxidation process of silicone which would give off energy...
If anyone is still interested, the reproduction question is being dealt with in this thread:
http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=11371&boardid=13&styleid=3
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Originally posted by Xelex
The whole reason to play a fantasy game is to stray away from reality. They are polar opposites. If you want to be all logical save it for school. In a fantasy ANYTHING is possible....except reality.
Well if you think about it, the interior of our stomachs is made up of chemicals that are able to resist the dissolving acid power of stomach acid. So maybe the inside of Kran veins could have a chemical that makes it resistant to heat so the lava doesnt burn though the vein causing internal bleeding which really hurts.
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I think that kran are organic beings. Look. Many animals on earth developed lost of diffrent defence systems. I think that just like bugs developed chitin armors on their body, the same krans developed mineral armor (stone) to protect their inner organs. What do you think ??
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Originally posted by DarkArchon
I think that kran are organic beings. Look. Many animals on earth developed lost of diffrent defence systems. I think that just like bugs developed chitin armors on their body, the same krans developed mineral armor (stone) to protect their inner organs. What do you think ??
I think it doesn\'t matter because Kran were made of stone, by magic, and that\'s the way they are. Who cares if they are liquid inside or have lavablood or green hairs growing all over them. The point is that they\'re there, they have great magic resistance and such things shouldn\'t be questioned, just accepted. Makes things so much easier.
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Originally posted by Gronomist
I think it doesn\'t matter because Kran were made of stone, by magic, and that\'s the way they are. Who cares if they are liquid inside or have lavablood or green hairs growing all over them. The point is that they\'re there, they have great magic resistance and such things shouldn\'t be questioned, just accepted. Makes things so much easier.
While it may make things easier, it also is unsatisfactory, at least to me. IMO it doesn\'t need to be perfectly realistic, but it also shouldn\'t be \"it\'s like that because... it\'s like that.\".
I, however, don\'t think lava blood is a good idea, and also don\'t think it would be pure acid. I don\'t even think that it would be acid at all, since our blood isn\'t acidic as well, but the human stomach contains strong acids. It would be containing the silicon-based counterparts of what our blood contains, which would be nutrients and waste materials, which may both be contained in water or oil (think of muddy water or dirty oil). I therefore can see the Kran bleed very liquid mud or oil, as has been proposed already. Finest Kran oil, anyone? :D
Originally posted by DarkArchon
I think that kran are organic beings. Look. Many animals on earth developed lost of diffrent defence systems. I think that just like bugs developed chitin armors on their body, the same krans developed mineral armor (stone) to protect their inner organs. What do you think ??
I also don\'t think Kran would be carbon-based on the inside, because if it were like that, they wouldn\'t actually be this different. Most importantly, they would have a gender just as any other complex carbon-based lifeform also has. We should try to emphasize their being different, not to remove it.
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Cutting out science of any form ( not saying i dont love it but this is a fantasy game after all) i believe that Kran should crack. They could possibly repair their cracks by eating stone. When they die they should leave behind rubble.
Kran + hammer = Large pile of rock dust =-)
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Originally posted by Seytra
Originally posted by Gronomist
I think it doesn\'t matter because Kran were made of stone, by magic, and that\'s the way they are. Who cares if they are liquid inside or have lavablood or green hairs growing all over them. The point is that they\'re there, they have great magic resistance and such things shouldn\'t be questioned, just accepted. Makes things so much easier.
While it may make things easier, it also is unsatisfactory, at least to me. IMO it doesn\'t need to be perfectly realistic, but it also shouldn\'t be \"it\'s like that because... it\'s like that.\".
True it may be unsatisfactory for you, but there are still things which should not, and can not be explained, such as why is the universe so big and why does it keep expanding? Sure I know it\'s because God keep buying new hardware for his computer toy, but still... If you saw a walking pile of rocks while you were downtown, doing your shopping or whatever, what would you think? Magic perhaps? So why should Yliakum be so much diffrent? After all, the Yliakum history states that Talad used the magic of the crystal to create people in his image, and so he did. They\'re made of rock, and if you hit them hard enough, they break. Just like humans. So does it really matter that much how they work, or if the answer is so vitally important to you, why not simply ask the devs and have them tell you either \"Dunno\", \"NDA, sorry\" or \"Neenerneenernuuuuuhjhuhuhujublipblip\" (they\'re crazy, I know :) )... But that\'s just a suggestion. Anyway, I really don\'t see how arguing back and forward with a lot of people who really have no clue helps to answer your question, so maybe you should consider a more drastic/aggressive approach... kind of thing. You know... :)
[Edit: Then again... I just remembered that it is in the human nature to cut things open to see how they work and then try to put them back together, only to realise they failed miserably so now it doesn\'t work anymore... Oh well. Too bad the models don\'t bleed in CB, or I could\'ve at least told you what color it is... But I guess that would be NDA stuff. Anyway, enough nonsense.]
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This thread made me want to create and host a planeshift fan page.
a fitting name would have been ps-science.net
this site would discusse the scientific aspect of the settings. it would also contain all the settings and info about all races, towns, crystals etc.
Though I dont think I have time to do it:P
Anyway, if you want a forum dedicated to such discussions, rather then always get interupted by everyone, i can host a forum for that sole purpose.
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Originally posted by Cirque
I just did some in depth searching and came up with this. It could still be wrong though but it looked legit.
Melting point: 1414 ?C, 2577 ?F
Boiling point: 2900 ?C, 5252 ?F
Encording to TI-32 Plus SE\'s Periodic table of eliments.
Silicon (Si) has a Melting point of 1414?C
and a Boiling point of 3265?C (in one atmosphares preasure, other words, at sealevel)
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Originally posted by Gronomist
True it may be unsatisfactory for you, but there are still things which should not, and can not be explained, such as why is the universe so big and why does it keep expanding?
There are theories about the first questions, and the second one AFAIK has been answered. :P
Originally posted by Gronomist
Sure I know it\'s because God keep buying new hardware for his computer toy, but still...
LOL! Yes, The 13th Floor / The Matrix might also be the answer. We might also just be an MMORPG ourselves.
Originally posted by Gronomist
If you saw a walking pile of rocks while you were downtown, doing your shopping or whatever, what would you think? Magic perhaps?
No, I\'d probably go \"Huh? WTF?!? *hides at safe distance* Whatit? How does it work? *observes*\". :D
Originally posted by Gronomist
So why should Yliakum be so much diffrent? After all, the Yliakum history states that Talad used the magic of the crystal to create people in his image, and so he did.
Yes, it may be sufficient to the inhabitants of Yliakum (though I doubt it\'ll be sufficient for all of them).
Originally posted by Gronomist
They\'re made of rock, and if you hit them hard enough, they break. Just like humans. So does it really matter that much how they work, or if the answer is so vitally important to you, why not simply ask the devs and have them tell you either \"Dunno\", \"NDA, sorry\" or \"Neenerneenernuuuuuhjhuhuhujublipblip\" (they\'re crazy, I know :) )... But that\'s just a suggestion. Anyway, I really don\'t see how arguing back and forward with a lot of people who really have no clue helps to answer your question, so maybe you should consider a more drastic/aggressive approach... kind of thing. You know... :)
Well, I believe the dev\'s answer would be \"dunno\", because otherwise they\'d have included it on the settings page. Therefore, I try to come up with some explanation to fill that vacuum. By arguing about it existing ideas can be verified and refined and new ones can be evaluated and added. I don\'t expect that this will lead to a 100% scientifically correct and working solution, but maybe about 80%, which IMO is way better than \"dunno\". ;)
Originally posted by Gronomist
[Edit: Then again... I just remembered that it is in the human nature to cut things open to see how they work and then try to put them back together, only to realise they failed miserably so now it doesn\'t work anymore... Oh well.
:D So what if someone RPs a scientist who just cut open a Kran? They would know, so it adds to RP options. Also, you don\'t end up with one Kran RPing acid blood, one other RPing lava blood and another one RPing no blood.
Originally posted by Gronomist
Too bad the models don\'t bleed in CB, or I could\'ve at least told you what color it is... But I guess that would be NDA stuff. Anyway, enough nonsense.]
Which means that no species has any blood! ;)
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i dont think they should bleed, i think they should just get temporary marks on their bodies
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Seytra, you DO know that SiO2 is quartz, right? Dont ask me how I know that... :\\
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Originally posted by Shadowfalcon
Seytra, you DO know that SiO2 is quartz, right?
So? Can you please quote the sentence(s) of mine that you are referring to by this? :)
Anyway, I know that quartz is one form that SiO2 can take, yes.
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Seytra, maybe one day you\'ll learn to let things be.
Hopefully not though, the discussions are particularly interesting.
I myself feel that they shouldn\'t bleed, they should just chip and crack and then slowly repair. I think of Kran as constructs (ala D&D), and not organic, and I don\'t think Golems etc. bleed?
It\'s just thinking (slowly), animated rock in my opinion.
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Krans are made of silicon and they eat minerals.
It does not make good sense to propose a inner system close to the human, or to neglect the question with a mythical solution.
Humans, are in some way not more then machines.
Or thoughts are electrons jumping around in nurel networks in the brain.
Humans obtain the energy from the food (Sun energi stored as sugar)
Krans use their genuine silicon skin to obtain sun energy directly without the photo syntheses. The Kran silicon skin, works like the silicon in solar powerplants.
The Kran mucel are special fibers reacting to power stimulation
Krans have a magnetic tubes distrubing minerals in the body.
Does Kran bleed?
They bleed energy, and minerals.
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Krans are Frankenstines of Planeshift. Was Frankenstine a human? Partially yes. Do we need to know the details how he was alive? No, not really.
Rock Golems, Do we need to know how pieces of stones are combined to a giant fighting machine? No, not really.
Although Krans are special case in sense that they are not just some summons, but actually intelligent beings, player characters. I believe its sufficient to think that they are magically created to have a functional organism that will last them a life time and have an intellect sufficient to function in society.
A more interesting question would be, why were they created, for what purpose, when and by who.
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Originally posted by sashok20
A more interesting question would be, why were they created, for what purpose, when and by who.
But since these questions have been answered on the settings page, they\'re not worthy of discussion anymore.
While I agree that it isn\'t strictly necessary to know how every single monster works, it is still quite a different matter with playable races, simply because you need to make highly detailed models and effects based on this, and you also need to be able to RP.
@ Uitra: This might actually be the case. Quartz, which is a form that SiO2 can take, will contract if energy is applied, so millions of tiny quartzes could be assembled to form a muscle-like actuator. Solar panels are mainly made up of silicone as well. Therefore, Kran might indeed be electrical, except for their digestion. Their brains would be computer-like. I, however, don\'t think that they\'d have magnetic tubes, because almost all minerals aren\'t magnetic. The tubes could, however, be actuated by mucle-like structures made from quartz, that mechanically distribute the minerals, which immediately brings us the answer to the question of their blood: it\'d be extremely fine-ground minerals in this case.
Furthermore, this might even explain why magic doesn\'t work on them: the spells are constructed to work on organic lifeforms, not on machines. Therefore, it would be a matter of adapting the spells to make them as effective on Kran as on other beings. Also, they\'d have problems surviving in the dark.
The only problem is that the race description states that they also make use of the oxygen-binding feature of silicon, which implies something that is \"organic-like\", not electrical, therefore I don\'t think that Kran work by electricity, at least not solely.
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Oxygen could be used during the breaking down of minerals? Cooling? Possibly some silicon based compound that needs Oxygen during the reaction between it and Energy (This compound doesnt need to exist in real life - Not everything needs to be plausable!)
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Rock Golems, Do we need to know how pieces of stones are combined to a giant fighting machine? No, not really.
Rock Golems are not fighting machines and we know how they where ment to work. Made by clay and made to work by holy words.
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But since these questions have been answered on the settings page, they\'re not worthy of discussion anymore.
Oh yeah? Hmm, it says Krans are created by Talad, they are born underground, they never seen light. Maybe there more that i missed.. So up to now there\'s still my questions such as why they were created, when they were created. Maybe when is not as important as why...
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you guys think too much about this...
lol
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well the skill empathy says u need to use blood, if krans dont bleed then.... krans really cant use that skill
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A Kran is a some type of Golem If a golem can bleed a kran can bleed. plus they both is made out of rocks, and I think a kran can\'t bleed and krans don\'t need muscles to move. a golem don\'t need muscles to move ether(not all the time). it is animated by magic. do you see skeletons with muscles no because they is animated by magic too. I think the wizard form Krans to look like that,
Have you heard of rock craving, rocks is cutable too. If they do bleed then it should be golden sand:). Or just a dent. I like Krans Its the first game I play that let you be a rock golem. And Krans is part of earth. so they might bleed mud or oil. And How can a Kran die when its like a rock? magic is crazy.
you Don\'t have to agree with me if you don\'t want to.
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this not about krans. Humaniods Can walk on two legs and do everything a human can do. But how they came to exist. did humans fall in love with a animals and have a humaniod baby? I know humans can\'t have babys with animals but its wierd.
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Well to add in my two cents ...
Krans are silicone based lifeforms and where Seytra explained the physics side of their functioning pretty well I \'ll try to elaborate on my view of their metabolism and biological side.
As for the biological side .. that \'s quite simple, there isn\'t any. Since they are not a carbon based lifeform they have no need for food. (Thus to make the game more realistic food shouldn\'t be edible by them) Since they have no need for food they have no need for an internal transportation system to supply their body with nutritients. So they would not have blood of any kind. They wouldn\'t have much of a metabolism either.
Just like solar panels Kran can absorb heat which they then could transform into electrical energy to become mobile. And if they are semi porous they have no need of a respirational system because the oxygen can just flow through them and get everywhere. Of course submerging a Kran for a while is still not very advisable since they \'ll lose their energy there and become a solid rock. Sinking to the bottom to remain there for all eternity.
One problem is how a Kran can regenerate though .. well they won\'t age as fast as us carbonbased lifeforms, they don\'t have to constantly renew their bodies and have a constant supply of resources either. But Yliakum isn\'t exactly peaceful so there will be fighthing and Kran can be cracked or chipped just like we can be hurt. So they will need ways to heal. Now since there are rocks all around they would probably be able to absorb the resources they need to repair just out of the soil they \'re standing on.
Aside from that perhaps there could be special potions for Kran, a solution of minerals and tiny grains of silicone which can be poured over the wound to heal it instead of ingested.
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From the manual...
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Because their skin is made of silicon, the Kran are very resistant to laceration but, lacking flexibility, is more easily damaged by bludgeoning weapons. Silicon still supports oxygen linkages, so Kran breathe much more slowly than other races, enabling them to happily breathe underwater. Without ears, they perceive sounds thanks to vibrations on their bodies. Strong and tireless, Kran are as resistant as the rock that they were born from. Since magic was created to act on different principles, it seems to have little effect on them
Kran metabolism is very complex, they are used to eat sand of various and precious minerals that are digested in their stomach thanks to strong acids. They can also eat food full of mineral salts like seaweed and some crystals created in their kitchen, similar to chemical laboratories.
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They Eat, they breath, and get damaged.
Rats can attack them so they are not that tough and they heal just as fast as everyone else.
The question was do they bleed. and the consensus so far is that they don\'t. Actually I don\'t think any of PS inhabitants bleed.
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This is interesting, because afaik the temperatur of lave depends on the type of lava, and some lava types has a temperatur arround 873,15 K, which menas that he Kran easely could walk ? on it ? or ? i don\'t know but an interesting thourght.
/Kunisch
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Might I say at the moment...... WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The intellectuals and artists, maybe? :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by derwoodly
From the manual...
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Because their skin is made of silicon, the Kran are very resistant to laceration but, lacking flexibility, is more easily damaged by bludgeoning weapons. Silicon still supports oxygen linkages, so Kran breathe much more slowly than other races, enabling them to happily breathe underwater. Without ears, they perceive sounds thanks to vibrations on their bodies. Strong and tireless, Kran are as resistant as the rock that they were born from. Since magic was created to act on different principles, it seems to have little effect on them
Kran metabolism is very complex, they are used to eat sand of various and precious minerals that are digested in their stomach thanks to strong acids. They can also eat food full of mineral salts like seaweed and some crystals created in their kitchen, similar to chemical laboratories.
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They Eat, they breath, and get damaged.
Rats can attack them so they are not that tough and they heal just as fast as everyone else.
The question was do they bleed. and the consensus so far is that they don\'t. Actually I don\'t think any of PS inhabitants bleed.
Guess I should have read the manual better before starting to theorize. Ah well back to the drawing board :P
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If you read the intire post, I believe the you will come away with two things, one, a headache, two a general feeling that Krans do not bleed.
However! In a short story by Under the Moon (UtM) a Kran is wounded in a shipwreck and does bleed. Since he is quickly becoming a forum legend, It might be best just to ask him about such maters of lore :)
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Allright i read 6 pages and decided to register to the site to give my reply.
Krans aren\'t Rocks
Krans aren\'t Trees
Krans aren\'t made of sand
Krans aren\'t Frankenstein monsters
Krans aren\'t made of lavalike blood
Krans did not come from Star Trek
Krans aren\'t Thick-skinned and Big-boned
Krans aren\'t in The Matrix
Krans aren\'t Rock Golems
Krans aren\'t Earth Elementals
Krans aren\'t Obsidian Gargoyles
Krans aren\'t Squids
Krans aren\'t a human creation
Krans are Krans
They are not like anything in real-life
So don\'t compare them with anything in Real-Life and don\'t use real-life science because it is not intellectual like some call themselves (by the gods), it\'s PLANESHIFT !
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Originally posted by derwoodly
From the manual...
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Kran metabolism is very complex, they are used to eat sand of various and precious minerals that are digested in their stomach thanks to strong acids. They can also eat food full of mineral salts like seaweed and some crystals created in their kitchen, similar to chemical laboratories.
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Well, logically if that was the case they\'d have some kind of blood.
Although they would only need it deep inside as their exterior is solid.
So, they don\'t bleed but they do have some kind of blood.
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Originally posted by Crathuk
Krans are Krans
They are not like anything in real-life
So don\'t compare them with anything in Real-Life and don\'t use real-life science because it is not intellectual like some call themselves (by the gods), it\'s PLANESHIFT !
You do realize you \'re contradicting yourself, right?
You said it yourself it \'s planeshift, the game that is different from all the other mindless hack & slash leveling games. It is all about RPing in planeshift and for RPing you need one essential element .. what?
Yes exactly, background information. So why don\'t you let us discuss and theorize that background info instead of signing up for the sole purpose of telling people to be quiet.
Now, odeskugga you are right .. if they have a metabolism they need a transportation mechanism which would be similar to blood. However it also said their breathing is much slower than normal, allowing them to breathe underwater. Well then I think it could be that their body fluids would also move very slow. Not like with us where it is pumped around the body by a very powerful muscle. But I see a Kran\'s body being porous and filled with liquid that only moves because the Kran is moving. So their body would be completely filled with liquid in which the minerals and particles could dissolve and so move to where they are needed. Of course the external layer would be impenetrable and serve as a barrier.
As a result when a Kran \'bleeds\' it shouldn\'t be like when you hit a vein on another creature where it flows out but it should slowly ooze out as the outer barrier of its body is broken. Or maybe they don\'t bleed at all if the porous rock they are made out of has strong enough absorbing properties. Of course then it would be a very bad idea for a wounded Kran to go swimming in the winter. It \'d swell up completely like a sponge and then freeze outside .. water expands .. bam! :P
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Originally posted by Crathuk
Krans are Krans
They are not like anything in real-life
So don\'t compare them with anything in Real-Life and don\'t use real-life science because it is not intellectual like some call themselves (by the gods), it\'s PLANESHIFT !
How i love those people :s
How can they say somethink can\'t be compared to real life because it is fantasy game or whatever. In this case argument was PLANESHIFT.
There is huge amount of things which has been based on real world. One of these can be that Krans has shape of humanoids and all these things which you won\'t think about, because they are so common.
More or less, Krans will stay mysterious for a long time, if not eternity. The more we will know, the more questions will pup up.
And all those who tried to explain Kran secrets or scientists with sometimes very different theories, which will be always hardly accepted, by people who accept things as they are, not asking why.
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Gives Crathuk a hearty slap on the back-- Thwack!
Welcome to the Forums!!!
That was a great post Crathuk, I now know what Krans are not, but I still don\'t know if they bleed.
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First of all, there\'s too many flamers saying this thread is stupid. Oh yea! Well, I think flamers are stupid!
Hold it, did I just flame flamers? Wouldn\'t that mean I just called myself stu...
Nevermind.
Anyways in order to answer this we need some more information and less assumptions. Talad created the race with magic. But does that mean they still exist because of magic, or was that just the creation process and they are self sufficient now? I would assume that since they eat and breath, that magic has little to do with their day to day existence.
Now, in order to get a good guess at how they work, we need to determine weather we would call them cold or warm blooded, at least as far as it applies to them. Rocks take a lot of energy to keep at a constant temperature. And since they live underground, where it is a more stable temperature, I wouldn\'t think body temperature would be a concern. So let\'s say they don\'t regulate their own temperature, and for all intents and purpose\'s would be cold blooded if anything.
The next thing to considerer is do they feel pain. This will give us a good idea of their nervous system. Now I\'ve hurt Kran in battle, and seen them yell in pain, but I\'ve never seen them flinch. To have an involuntary reaction of jerking back in pain is rudimentary in most animals as a defense mechanism. Since they do not do this, I can only assume that there was never a biological reason to protect themselves. Therefore, just like a plant, they do not have anything vital that cannot be replace in another part of the body till the affected appendage grows back.
Now, their description says they have veins, but does not say blood veins. most likely they are bands of different minerals. So lets put this together.
A kran eats minerals and breaths. In their stomachs there are powerful \"digestive\" acids. these catalyze with the minerals and oxygen, and have a battery like reaction. there bodies can store the charge. This would explain why they breath slower, they don\'t have to \"digest\" at full speed all the time! As said before in this thread, certain silicon compounds can react with electricity to make an actuator like movement. The mineral \"veins\" transmit the electricity to these crystal \"muscles\". Now we have a nervous and muscular systems!
Now we have a theory of how they work, no blood involved. Any magic believers who wish to argue this can gather a large group of kran together and ask for volunteer\'s to be cut open so that they can prove that there is magic inside them.
I\'ll give anyone who makes it back alive 5 tria
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Originally posted by kixoras1
hmmm looks like im the last person who doesnt want the krans to bleed... my theory is that krans dont have blood that there are really shaped stones held together by magic. no blood what-so-ever. i think we should just hit them untill they start to crumble and limbs fall off, etc. This would create a strategy for the kran. EG: if a mage casts counter magic, the kran would essentially start falling apart. or if you cast a water spell it would start to erode. this would be a character unmatched in non magical weapon melee fighting but very vunerable in magic fighting. just my 2 cents though.
magic attacks would not work . as it states in their information on the website they were made from magic and so have a large resistance too it. however i think the cracking thing is a good idea. bludgeoning weapons could hurt them more a it is generally easier to crack a rock with a hammer than a sword. bludgeoning weapons could do more damage to them. krans most likely dont have blood cos they dont breathe and there really isnt much harm from any illnesses to a stone so that most likely illiminates white blood cells. therefore krans dont bleed.
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So far, no sulution. Good.
I like the Kran\'s becaurse they leave so much to fantasy.
And isn\'t a mmorpg a fantasy?
If everything have all the ansvers, it should spoil a lot of the fun.
Like a lot of other people here, i have my own idee\'s how the Kran work\'s.
But instead of argue about it, i\'m trying to write it in a story (my story is stuck ATM).
So please, let them be mysterius. :P
/me think human no understand Kran.
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Sorry if some of the language is kinda haughty, I just like pretty words when talking about science. :)
Kran were created through divine magic, by the hand of Talad. This is known for fact. However, not all existing Kran were created that day. (As people can choose it as a race, therefore the number of Kran in existance is not limited.) So.. That means that Kran must have some way to reproduce, or that Talad creates more of them. This does, however, seem a strange task, just creating Kran out of the blue every once in awhile. If the Kran are simply magically animated constructs, as so many would have us believe, then they would not be able to reproduce, as the magic that is believed to make them move while holding their shape, think, live, and whatnot would have to be cast on their young to make them more than a stone. I was thinking, that maybe if they were enchanted, that if their young were of the same enchanted stone, then they would live too, but that just doesn\'t make sense. If that were the case, Kran could shapeshift, create things out of their bodies, only losing body mass, (such as weapons) and could not be harmed, because they would be little more than flexible rocks, held together and manipulated by magic. I believe that there is something more.
In order to maintain their existance, I believe that, even though they were created by magic, they were created with a functional system.
They would likely breathe, not Oxygen, but Carbon. When monoatomic Carbon comes in contact with SiO2, they react to produce pure Silicon, and Carbon monoxide.(SiO2 + 2C --> Si + 2CO) Which would explain a source of silicon to grow and heal, straight from their food. Breathe in Carbon Dioxide, and breathe out Carbon monoxide and Oxygen. This is however, only possible if the Kran stomach is able to break molecular bonds. A crop of sorts, to break apart the Carbon Dioxide into monoatomic Carbon, and diatomic Oxygen. The Oxygen is by far the heavier of the two, (being two atoms, each heavier than a Carbon atom) so the Carbon would ..float, as it were, to be absorbed from the top of the organ, while the Oxygen is pushed to the bottom, (assuming this organ is a vacuum aside from what has been introduced) to be absorbed and exhaled. The absorbed Carbon, would then go to the stomach to aid in digestion, which would produce Carbon monoxide, and Silicon, along with solid waste.
As for muscles, I do not see why joints could not be pushed, in the stead of pulled, by metals supersensitive to heat, which expand when electral current passes through them. (the opposite of muscles, but the same result.) And then slowly cool, and contract when current is no longer applied. (The metal muscle thing was stated before, by someone else, but in fewer words.)
I do not, however, believe that Kran have any need for blood. Comming in, I thought it would be a suspension of silicon and other things in water, but the more I thought about it, the more it made sense that substances absorb through poors inside the Kran\'s body, as opposed to traveling in a liquid.
I do realize that there are holes in this, probably rather big ones.. But hey, I\'m just doing my part in this wonderful discussion! :) /me loves picking fantasy apart to think of how it should work.
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Kran
Physical Traits
They belong more to the mineral kingdom than to the animal one. Their organism is the only one, amongst the known races, to be based on silicon instead of carbon. They appear as humanoids made of rock. The color of the body is mainly gray or black and slightly wrinkled, with colored veins different from individual to individual. Some rare Kran have a different colored skin, like white, azure or pink, which is highly appreciated by Kran. Their head is slightly lengthened at the top, without ears and nose. They are born underground and none of them has ever seen the light of the sun. They are from 1.90 m to 2.10 m tall.
Abilities and fields of interest
Because their skin is made of silicon, the Kran are very resistant to laceration but, lacking flexibility, is more easily damaged by bludgeoning weapons. Silicon still supports oxygen linkages, so Kran breathe much more slowly than other races, enabling them to happily breathe underwater. Without ears, they perceive sounds thanks to vibrations on their bodies. Strong and tireless, Kran are as resistant as the rock that they were born from. Since magic was created to act on different principles, it seems to have little effect on them. Also, the way in which they reproduce is incompatible with all other races: there are no half-breed Kran.
Psychology
They are not one of most intelligent races of Yliakum, but they tend to be loyal and firm in their beliefs.
Nutrition
Kran metabolism is very complex, they are used to eat sand of various and precious minerals that are digested in their stomach thanks to strong acids. They can also eat food full of mineral salts like seaweed and some crystals created in their kitchen, similar to chemical laboratories.
OK I am reading a lot of the posts here and several are asumin things that aren\'t right. Krans LOOK like they are made of stone becuase they are silicon based. They aren\'t really made of actual stones.
Krans do breath aswell. They breath slower then us it says so in the description
They have a stomach and eat things. Although I wouldn\'t recommend their kitchen.
If you want to think how a Kran would work you have to think more in the way of how a human would work if it was made out of silicon. Not get strange magical solutions as those definately don\'t fit the description so far
Krans were magicly created but so were ALL the races at one point most likely. Remember that all the creatures sent to Yliakum came from asking other gods. The Krans are just a little different.