PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Cyrandir on April 26, 2004, 12:03:53 pm
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I\'ve only been around these fourms for a few months, but in those few months I\'ve seen some disturbing trends. It seems that the vibrant and enjoyable community that I joined is swiftly melting into petty bickering and flaming. No longer are such activities restricted to the new members of the fourms or those just trying to make a$$es of themselves. Now even some of the oldest and most respected members of this community have entered the fray. Without such backbones of honor and decency, a community such as this will quicly crumble into nothing. Forum members are already leaving at an incredible rate, and even many of the old-schoolers seem to be throwing in the towel. Many people have already put forward theories of why this is happening, ranging from the highly delayed relase of CB to the simple n00bish-ness of people. I don\'t honestly care. I DO care about the direction this forum, this community, and this game are headed.
I call out to all the leaders of this community to pull together and show some maturity, some mutual respect, and some honor to each other and to the rest of the members. It\'s through your inspired leadership that this community has reached the heights that it has; please don\'t send it into oblivion.
A concerned observer
Cyrandir
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It\'s funny.. I was just writing a summary of my thoughts on this community, and the turns certain events has taken..guess I wont be needing that summary.
I completely agree with you, mutual respect is the key, without it, we will soon have two, or more, different camps of fans.
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i disagree.
i think this community is nice as it is.
friendly and funny people and a quite enjoyable community.
of course some of these folks behave different on different subjects but thats just a matter of an oppinion.
there are also some that are rude, mean and wont stop, well they will be stopped by a moderator. and then they can whine as much as they can in some underground forum ;)
(i didnt bother to read your hole post)
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Well, people are propably getting nervous because of the frustration they feel while waiting for CB to come out. That is the most logical reason I can think of...
And also, like Altharion stated, there are a lot of people on these forums, in different ages and maturity, and with a lot of different opinions and views on different things, so it\'s no wonder people gets mad at each other. But as long as people discuss things in a civilized manner and are open to other opinions, I think it\'s just good for ones self-development to give and take in a discussion to form your own opinions.
We have seen some pinches and harsh words on the forums lately, but it\'s not like if those kind of things are dominating this place in any way. From what I have experienced, most people here have a very friendly and respectful behaviour. Sure there are sour socks around, but people got to realize that there will always be those people who never seem to learn that they arn\'t the only person on earth, and that there is others with a different reality than their own, but it\'s the moderators job to make sure those people doesn\'t harm the community.
Don\'t worry, CB happy ;)
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It would be easy to agree with this because most of what you said is true and has happened...but I would not say this is a permenant thing! This is just a down point for us right now soon this will all settle, feuds will be put aside and hopefully conducted in RP fashion if not settled! Every forum has its
War Mongers
Flamers
Old Schoolers
Peace Keepers
Neutrals
Sheep
This is what makes our forums interesting and exciting to visit each day. Each personality molds this forum into a better place doesn\'t matter if its a good or bad personality! Yes bad times are among us but it won\'t last forever...The \"Calm\" is coming it might not last to long but it is coming....(FF10)
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Hmm...At least it\'s not everywhere. It certainly is minimally effecting the general discussions forum.
I could say more but discussing moderators is against the rules.
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Originally posted by karakth
Hmm...At least it\'s not everywhere. It certainly is minimally effecting the general discussions forum.
I could say more but discussing moderators is against the rules.
no you can, post away.
just behave thats\'s all.
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As far as I\'m concerned the only thing that\'s really happened around here is that more players have arrived, more players that settle in the community forum that is.. Most people crazy enough to hang around here are usually nice, but I\'ve seen only a few number of people that have truly disrupted the flow of things.. I try to avoid such people in general, and while discussing with them might be extremely fun, they always end up doing something stupid and make everything worse..
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Hmm this is all well and good, but what do we do about it?
Banning every person who is considered to be giving grief is not an option, and the moderators would not support it any way.
What about trying to find an in-game way of settling differences? Or creating a \"fight\" forum where people can battle out their differences in an RP-type fashion and leave the guild forums free of such things?
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Davis is right about people taking out their hatred for hacking on a certain someone, not that he didn\'t ask for it.
I do think they have been getting a bit worse, but at the very least they\'re tolerable.
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Originally posted by karakth
Or creating a \"fight\" forum where people can battle out their differences in an RP-type fashion and leave the guild forums free of such things?
No no no no no!
These things never work out the right way. They only make things worse.
People flame, spam, and think they can do everything in such forums, and then whine when they get suspended.
Not only that, but the flamings in these forums usually drag to the other forums in the board. Two guys that start a fight in a forum like that will probebly go too far with it, start hating each other, and it can also lead to hacking into comps and messing stuff up (and not just threats).
As a matter of fact, I\'m getting sick of these threads.
Winterheaven made one, Cirque made one 5 mins later, Annah made something with the same concept, and now this.
If you actually care about this community, stop posting threads like these, it makes things worse.
You think this community is degrading? Try to make it better. But not like this. If you think someone is acting in a way he shouldn\'t, either report him, or tell him that.
Throwing accusations in the likes of \"there are many people that make this community bad, and you know who you are\" is nothing but an irritator, spam, and trying to make yourself look like you\'re some kind of a savior.
And you know, let\'s just presume that these name-less people you\'re accusing are doing this because their goal is to degrade this community. In this case, you\'re helping them. You raise their morale, and lower the morale of everyone else.
Good job.
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I don\'t think this is a matter of something that can be done by the devs or moderation, this is entirely something for the community to fix on its own. This degradation is common amongst games with any signifigant exposure that is easily accessible. Indeed, the same degradation is common in Everquest nowadays, or so I\'ve heard; and that\'s a pay-to-play game.
One solution on other games has been to establish RP servers as an alternative to a common server, but this is obviously not an option as previously stated; it would strain the community far too much at this point.
This just goes with the territory of MMORPGs, I suppose; but we certainly don\'t have to stand for it. Actions speak louder than words, after all; you think honor and mutual respect will aid the community? Then demonstrate it! Show one respect and I say you\'ll find it returned in kind.
However, such respect and kindness is obviously contrary to particular RP relashionships. A community thrives on conflict, so eliminating it entirely would be suicide. What seems to be the case is that the conflict is expressed incorrectly, not IC, as it should be, but OOC, via forum posts, idle threats, malicious hacking, and OOC spying. Expressing conflict properly would greatly improve the situation.
I still say those serious about this community should keep their bonds strong into CB; if we can keep the core community strong, I believe there\'s still hope. Perhaps the best defense will just be ignoring those that do us harm...
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As you can tell by my post count...
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I haven\'t been around these boards for very long. I\'m already somewhat dismayed by some of the responses I\'ve gotten. I was really hoping that PS would have a more mature crowd; people that want to have fun with an RPG and aren?t just out to see how much of a negative reaction they can spark.
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i have a nice proposal
thers a project for PS calles treecastle if ya wanna be constructive join em so ya migh help PS a bit and the world may grow more
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Originally posted by Nairan
i have a nice proposal
theres a project for PS called treecastle if ya wanna be constructive join em so ya might help PS a bit and the world may grow more
and most of us are sat in chat waiting for bbum to report on his progress with the walk about map =)
ya if your feeling frustrated come flame some of the ideas by the treecastle crew =)
The ps community is becoming bitter buts its just impatience and boredom, we are all looking for something to entertain us and seem to be taking it out on each other for not doing that.
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Originally posted by Barugon
As you can tell by my post count...
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I haven\'t been around these boards for very long. I\'m already somewhat dismayed by some of the responses I\'ve gotten. I was really hoping that PS would have a more mature crowd; people that want to have fun with an RPG and aren?t just out to see how much of a negative reaction they can spark.
You know, atfirst when I read it, I thought \"I doubt the situation is that bad, but I guess it is if he say so\". After a few minutes, I came back, and read your post again. Since you got only 13 posts (right now), I decided that it won\'t be too hard to see how bad the thing is.
I read all the threads you posted in. And I got to tell you this...
You got some ***ing nerves!
There isn\'t even one single post in any of the threads you posted in that wasn\'t nice toward you and the fact that you\'re new here. Even when you posted a thread that announces that you joined the community (something wich I consider extremely spammatic) was treated with smilies and \'welcome\'s.
The only post that could somehow be taken as an insult (after twisting it completely and taking it out of context) would be this very valid post wich was posted Here (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=8715&boardid=13&sid=b419969495976dffe97046b3d09edfe3):
Originally posted by Barugon
Originally posted by Karyuu
I really recommend you use the search tool in the forum :)
Hmm... did I really expect anything else. Well, at least you said it nicely.
Karyuu even added a smilie. And look, you admit that it was said nicely.
This is the most aggresive post in the whole board toward you. And you say you\'re dismayed by some of the responses you\'ve gotten?
Well, here\'s a response for you to get dismayed of.
Edit: Just wanted to add, I have nothing against you, but when you get such lovely responses as you got, and then you go and say you got \"dismayed\" of them... Gah! I don\'t even know how to describe such a low-life as you are.
This can be considered as flaming, it doesn\'t matter. Check for yourself if you don\'t belive me. He had absolutely no reason to say this community is bad toward him.
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no need to flame him out of existence, saint :))
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Originally posted by SaintNuclear
Originally posted by Barugon
As you can tell by my post count...
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I haven\'t been around these boards for very long. I\'m already somewhat dismayed by some of the responses I\'ve gotten. I was really hoping that PS would have a more mature crowd; people that want to have fun with an RPG and aren?t just out to see how much of a negative reaction they can spark.
You know, atfirst when I read it, I thought \"I doubt the situation is that bad, but I guess it is if he say so\". After a few minutes, I came back, and read your post again. Since you got only 13 posts (right now), I decided that it won\'t be too hard to see how bad the thing is.
I read all the threads you posted in. And I got to tell you this...
You got some ***ing nerves!
There isn\'t even one single post in any of the threads you posted in that wasn\'t nice toward you and the fact that you\'re new here. Even when you posted a thread that announces that you joined the community (something wich I consider extremely spammatic) was treated with smilies and \'welcome\'s.
The only post that could somehow be taken as an insult (after twisting it completely and taking it out of context) would be this very valid post wich was posted Here (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=8715&boardid=13&sid=b419969495976dffe97046b3d09edfe3):
Originally posted by Barugon
Originally posted by Karyuu
I really recommend you use the search tool in the forum :)
Hmm... did I really expect anything else. Well, at least you said it nicely.
Karyuu even added a smilie. And look, you admit that it was said nicely.
This is the most aggresive post in the whole board toward you. And you say you\'re dismayed by some of the responses you\'ve gotten?
Well, here\'s a response for you to get dismayed of.
Edit: Just wanted to add, I have nothing against you, but when you get such lovely responses as you got, and then you go and say you got \"dismayed\" of them... Gah! I don\'t even know how to describe such a low-life as you are.
This can be considered as flaming, it doesn\'t matter. Check for yourself if you don\'t belive me. He had absolutely no reason to say this community is bad toward him.
And you didn\'t see it because it was removed by a forum moderator... but by all means, please flame me.
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Originally posted by Altharion
Originally posted by karakth
Hmm...At least it\'s not everywhere. It certainly is minimally effecting the general discussions forum.
I could say more but discussing moderators is against the rules.
no you can, post away.
just behave thats\'s all.
\"Moderator activities are not a valid topic of discussion on the forums\". :)
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Originally posted by Barugon
And you didn\'t see it because it was removed by a forum moderator... but by all means, please flame me.
Yes, we do have great mods, wouldn\'t you agree? How non-dismaysive. 8)
And for future reference, don\'t quote that much just for one line.
Quite frankly, what the PS community needs right about now is...
*drumroll*
CRYSTAL BLUE
Edited for language.
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I was so pissed off I made a forum myself... I didn\'t even get time to check if there was already a forum about that anyway now you know what I feel
EDIT: Maybe it\'s because I only see guild thread... =P
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I\'ll respond to what you said in the thread you started here:
You perfectly described the PS community. We have nothing to do, so we attack each other. How to fix this? I request that you, the individual member, do not partake in it, or even better, speak out against it when it occurs. That\'s the only way to completely solve the problem.
Get to it!
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I will do my best. I already did on Annah forum!
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I think Lemons would make it all better....
seriously,I agree with grakim. But the current way conflict is being expressed IS NOT healthy for the community. I would say more...But I dont feel like getting banned for putting my foot down like kiern...
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I\'ll post here too, hopefully the other one will be closed, we got too many of these threads anyways:
This might be long, but after we all heard your bitching, Cyrandir, Sangwa and co. you should atleast read this.
I just looked at the threads list in this forum, General Discussion.
These two threads are right on the top of the list, and my NPC-less quest, a thread that is about joining the community together to a game, something that will be good to the community, and that all you guys that say that this community goes downhill says we need.
You preach about how we should be better. You blaim everyone for making this community hell-like. But besides opening a morale-lowing thread, what do you do about it?
I opened the NPC-less quest thread because I wanted to have fun with the community. A few days before, I opened a thread that raises questions about the Krans\' anatomy, in hope it\'ll open an intelligent debate.
As you were thinking about how everything is our fault, you haven\'t tried doing anything for the community. You haven\'t posted in the Krans thread (besides Cirque), wich I can understand, because maybe you don\'t have knowladge in biology \\ chemistry, and are also too lazy to search a bit about it in google.
But why didn\'t you post in the NPC-less quest thread? You don\'t like RPing? Then what are you doing here? You don\'t like playing? Then really, what are you doing here? You don\'t like this community? No one forces you to stay.
I\'m giving my threads as examples, because I know what I created them for, and I really do think that (atleast the quest one) is something that everyone should be thrilled to take part in.
I haven\'t opened these threads to satisfy the likes of you either, because they were opened before, and because I can\'t stand people that try to drive a community downhill while holding a flag that says they\'re trying to help the community.
If you care about the community more than how to lower the morale of everyone and make them leave, show it. Join my quest. Hell, make your own quest, game, whatever. Do something for the community if it\'s so important to you, and quit bitching about how bad it is. These bitchings won\'t do any good.
I could say now \"why do I even bother\". Why do I bother making threads to up the morale and have fun? The likes of you will destroy it anyways while blaiming everyone but themselves.
But no, I\'m not saying that. Why?
It\'s not a problem to lower the morale of a community like this one, with all the waiting for CB and stuff.
But what\'s the fun in that? Nothing, there is no fun in that.
But upping morale? Yeah, that could be a bit harder, but what\'s wrong with some challenge? Besides, you have fun in the process. And the result? A community you\'d love to be part of.
Now, really, let\'s see how you try to do something good for the community.
I\'m not going to \'dare\' you to do it, because that\'s stupid. But I wanna see, how all you bitchers actually try to do something good.
So I\'ll make a deal with you.
If each of you do something good for the community on the forums, that will be fun, and up the morale in a week (that\'s a long time to think of something and post it), you can bitch about the community all you want. If it will be built right, but fall quickly, I might even consider helping you with all your bitching.
If you won\'t do it, I don\'t care what\'s your reason, you\'ll shut up and stop saying that the community is being drived to hell.
Edit: Damn, that really was long... I wonder how many will stop after the second line...
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SaintNuclear, you are fuggin awesome d00d. I\'m inspired.
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Aha! It seems we have a new holy-scribe.
You have the speaking power of... of Auran! 8o
(meant as a compliment, though some might see it otherwise)
..and yes, I\'m one of those people who waste time reading long posts. : P
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You are right. We are acting like rappers, describing what\'s wrong but doing nothing to make it better.
That was the first step, I won\'t flame you down or say your ideas are stupid, since that\'s what made this community like this in the first place. Aye it\'s a deal then if I don\'t try your idea how can I know it\'s good?
Doing that stuff you\'re trying is good, but it\'s also good to help those who are flamed, instead of watching them being beaten down or helping the enraged crowd ^^.
Making people see what the community has become is also good.
Hmm sorry about this, I can\'t keep from saying it... you use the peanuts word too much. It\'s annoying ^^.
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I have already begun a campaign to help this community before i even read this thread.
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I would like to respond to SaintNuclear:
I would like to think that this thread, at least in my original statement, was not a condemnation of any one person, group, or even of the entire community. I intended it as a call to think about what has been happening on these boards lately. I tried to be eloquent and dispassionate about my observations and tried to provide a constuctive thought process about what can be done by the heart of the community. I was not attempting to lower the morale of everyone who comes here as you suggest, or trying to be self-righteous my own personal quest. I mearly suggested that a little maturity and self-control may go a long way to making people feel welcome in this fourm again. Many wonderful RPers have left due to recent events and the lack of thought before tryping. I honestly think this is a terrible thing. There is room enough in this game for pretty much everyone\'s ideas and personalities. That\'s one of the truly great things about PS. Tempers need not flare or harsh words be spoken to convey dissent about a topic. It\'s not concerned and calm threads that have been driving people away from PS. It\'s the backbiting and lack of constructive criticism, coupled with words typed in haste and anger.
Regarding my like or dislike of RPing, I have RPed for years. I regularly DM a group for D&D 2nd ed., and I try very very hard to make all sessions true RP experiences as opposed to the hack-n-slash feel that D&D can sometimes take on. I regularly throw out the rules in an attempt to create better RP situations for my players. RPing is the thing that attracts me to games and has kept me interested in PS despite the long wait for CB. I really am hopeful for PS to become the only true RP game out there, and therefore the game I really want to play.
I truly feel that this thread was meant to be constructive for the community. It was meant to ask people to take a long look at how they\'ve been treating other players both in-game and here on the forums. I think it\'s good to be reminded once in a while that we\'re not just typing into an NPC when we talk on the fourms, but that there are other people on the other end, people who are also interested and care about PS. Many may feel that the fourms are the only place to carry out RPing clan wars or personal vendettas at the moment, and they may be right. But these should not be carried out in a way that will drive stakes into the community or drive players from the game.
I\'m sorry if you don\'t approve of my posting my ideals for this community at this juncture.
Cyrandir
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Originally posted by Mogura
Originally posted by Altharion
Originally posted by karakth
Hmm...At least it\'s not everywhere. It certainly is minimally effecting the general discussions forum.
I could say more but discussing moderators is against the rules.
no you can, post away.
just behave thats\'s all.
\"Moderator activities are not a valid topic of discussion on the forums\". :)
crap ;)
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Originally posted by Princess Lemons
I have already begun a campaign to help this community before i even read this thread.
Who says this community is decaying??? Look at that ^^ up there!!! That has to be the funniest thing I have ever seen!!!!!!! I was doubling up laughing when I read it! That\'s why I started Planeshift, and that\'s why I still play it! Besides the occasional \'bad guy\', these forums are great!
You guys underestimate the entertaining value of your posts :D (I mean this in a nice, lovable, fellow Planeshifter way). 8)
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Hmm...maybe your just goofy ^_^
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Originally posted by Princess Lemons
Hmm...maybe your just goofy ^_^
I wasn\'t talking about that one sentence, I was talking about the whole fruit war :D . And by entertaining value, I also mean that some (a fair few) of the posts are very interesting and commendable.
Originally posted by SaintNuclear
You preach about how we should be better. You blaim everyone for making this community hell-like. But besides opening a morale-lowing thread, what do you do about it?
We should all just try and be fun to be around. We can\'t all be like you, or Moogie, or Princess Lemons..... There are always a few leaders in a community, and not everyone being a leader.
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Not to hijack this thread, but what\'s with all the lemons?
Just curious.
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Whats next the COCONUTS ? or do we move up to apples ANd start useing Burger king\'s catch phrase it just tastes better ? when ps goes on a ad campaigne (if it ever does )
great 1st this place was going to a certain some where now its going to that some where in a fruit basket :D
:LOL:
any way the state of these fourms arnt that bad Thanks to the ever-watchful mods which is a good thing ! ive seen worst, no ! not the cabal fourms even worst then that ! cant imagine huh ?
i guess We should all learn to take things on fourms less harshly just because some 1 decides to flame,insult ect ect .... you dosent mean you got to hack his/hers account or black mail him/her
Hey iam not asking you to go hug that certain person but for the communitys sake Take it easy !
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Got the earge for lemons, apples, coconuts and other wonderful fruits and vegetables then get to PlaneShift...Don\'t like fruties or vegies...well why not try King Size PlaneShift Kran Double Boulderburger or maybe you will dare to try Yliakum special? Flaming Hot Diaboli Fajitas!
Ta da ta da TA! I\'m Loving it!
As for decaying community...i can see the signs but really but do you expect people just have nothing to do...or mostly just lazy...my opinion the faster CB comes out the better it is for community...
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Originally posted by Cyrandir
I would like to think that this thread, at least in my original statement, was not a condemnation of any one person, group, or even of the entire community.
Right, you haven\'t blaimed a certain person \\ group \\ the entire community, but you did say this:
First post in this thread by Cyrandir
No longer are such activities restricted to the new members of the fourms or those just trying to make a$$es of themselves. Now even some of the oldest and most respected members of this community have entered the fray.
So, as I said, you\'re blaiming everyone for taking this community down. New members, people that try to be annoying, and the old and respected members.
Let me just add, that by not giving names of people you think are doing something wrong, you\'re not letting them repair their mistakes. I doubt that the \"oldest and most respected members\" that you\'re talking about, woke up one morning, and decided to behave like asses. If you think someone did something wrong, why not tell him directly (you can even do it by PM if you don\'t want to go OT)? Afraid of being flamed or laughed at? If you will be flamed \\ laughed at, then you did found a bad apple. But if you\'re replied by \"sorry, I didn\'t mean to\", or \"I\'ll try to be more careful in my statements next time\" then you met someone that wasn\'t truly aware.
Right now, you blaim both the bad apples, and the good ones. And you\'ve done nothing good. But if you made one person a bit more self-aware, that\'s enough. Your thread won\'t make anyone self-aware, because they don\'t know you\'re talking about them, unless their intentions are bad from the beginning.
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Originally posted by Cyrandir
I was not attempting to lower the morale of everyone who comes here as you suggest
First post in this thread by Cyrandir
Without such backbones of honor and decency, a community such as this will quicly crumble into nothing. Forum members are already leaving at an incredible rate, and even many of the old-schoolers seem to be throwing in the towel.
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Originally posted by Cyrandir
Regarding my like or dislike of RPing
This was a rhetorical question. I asked this because I can\'t see any other reason for not posting in the NPC-less quest forum, other than the fact that you say the community is going downhill, while ignoring all the good things in the community.
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Originally posted by Cyrandir
I truly feel that this thread was meant to be constructive for the community. It was meant to ask people to take a long look at how they\'ve been treating other players both in-game and here on the forums.
As I said in my first answer in this post, you\'re not achieving anything by throwing empty accusations toward name-less people.
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Originally posted by Cyrandir
I\'m sorry if you don\'t approve of my posting [...]
Don\'t ever be sorry about your opinions.
Originally posted by Cyrandir
my ideals for this community at this juncture.
You missed something there. I want this community to be nice and to flourish just like you. The only diffrence is that I\'m doing something about it, while you post threads that lower the morale (even if you didn\'t meant to).
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Originally posted by Levski
Originally posted by SaintNuclear
You preach about how we should be better. You blaim everyone for making this community hell-like. But besides opening a morale-lowing thread, what do you do about it?
We should all just try and be fun to be around. We can\'t all be like you, or Moogie, or Princess Lemons..... There are always a few leaders in a community, and not everyone being a leader.
I\'m not expecting everyone to go around and make things that are fun and good for the community.
But I do think that before someone posts a thread about how the community goes downhill, he should atleast try doing something good for it.
Desperation won\'t (and probebly never has) save anything.
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Originally posted by John_Thazer
Got the earge for lemons, apples, coconuts and other wonderful fruits and vegetables then get to PlaneShift...Don\'t like fruties or vegies...well why not try King Size PlaneShift Kran Double Boulderburger or maybe you will dare to try Yliakum special? Flaming Hot Diaboli Fajitas!
I hear the Greek Kebab shop on the corner of Hydlaa Plaza got caught selling Cat-Meat Kebabs again.......... ;)
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Kebap is Greek? Don\'t say that in Athens or on Cyprus :D
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Originally posted by Pogopuschel
Kebap is Greek? Don\'t say that in Athens or on Cyprus :D
Ah but you see, in Britain as in Hydlaa, it is the Greek fellows who own the Kebab shops ;)
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First of all, I would like to commend SaintNuclear for his excelent post, very good. But I also liked that Levski pointed out that these flame wars aren\'t the only thing happening in these forums. We need a little more humor and friendly competition, rather than the useless bantering and insults. But I would also like to point out that some (not all) of these insults, flaming, and noob bashing remarks are comming from people who are roleplaying, people who are roleplaying as an evil, selfish character. Of course there are the serious ones who are really just mean...