PlaneShift
Gameplay => Guilds Forum => Topic started by: Kada-El on April 27, 2004, 06:49:43 pm
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Help me out here, I am trying to understand what the point of all this is. This is supposed to be making a point right? I?m afraid it?s totally lost on me.
Okay the guild forum is to undergo some heavy moderation, fine I?m willing to give that a try (most of my posts don\'t seem to last very long anyway these days), but then why are these threads still here? Is the point that it?s supposed to show we are supposed to be having fun without the nastiness and that?s okay, or does it simply show that as long as ?certain people? like you and find you funny, you can get away with whatever you like?
?Lighten up Kada!?
Yeah I know, but to me it just makes a mockery of this project and other people?s guild threads and is worse than some of the threads that have been deleted from here. Things I don\'t like to see and make me start to wonder if I shouldn\'t be spending any more time here.
EDIT: Oh, the threads have gone - I\'ll just shut my mouth :P
*still confused* :rolleyes:
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uhh.... wat do you mean, lady Kada-El?
The point was to get everyone some fun, as \'twas stated few times...
and actually Aelya was serious about Lemons guild.... seems some people are racist against fruits and don\'t allow guilds like that here ;(
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Don\'t mind me, just jealous I didn\'t get in on the \'fun\' and was in not allowed into a fruit based guild :( - a case of sour grapes you might say hehe :P ;)
*runs off to start the sour grapes guild*
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The lemons guild was going to be a subproject and slightly lighter guild run by the alter egos of DE.
However people didnt take us all that seriously - several alike guilds were started - there was a funny anti-lemon thing started.
We may still be doing the lemon thing though although after this somewhat humourous outburst we may wait a while =)
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Actually I was (and still am) serious about making the Lemon Empire with my alt (Princess Lemons). So fear not LE members, we are not disbanding!
Embarrassed? Hardly. I had tons of fun doing it and I\'m sure the orange king did as well :P
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no Altharion, Aelya did not embarrass herself. She brought fun for lots of people, especially after the tense that was around. Some actually thanked (or should thank) her for the fun.
And I talked with her over icq, she was serious about it if you believe it or not.
Also what did you understand by \"this is serious\" and that she wants to make a website?
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I thought you were maybe trying to make some kind of serious point in a \'humorous\' way, about forum moderation, state of the community, or something that just got lost on me :rolleyes:
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Part of the reason I started the whole fruit guild trend was to bring some fun and crazziness to the forum.Not to meantion to bring it back from flame hell.
Yes kada your exactly right. I was indeed. But at the same time I enjoyed it and decided to make it serious (yet somehow still humorous)
And yes. LE still needs a web-designer :D Anyone who can make one can PM Princess Lemons
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Originally posted by Kada-El
Help me out here, I am trying to understand what the point of all this is. This is supposed to be making a point right? I?m afraid it?s totally lost on me.
Okay the guild forum is to undergo some heavy moderation, fine I?m willing to give that a try (most of my posts don\'t seem to last very long anyway these days), but then why are these threads still here? Is the point that it?s supposed to show we are supposed to be having fun without the nastiness and that?s okay, or does it simply show that as long as ?certain people? like you and find you funny, you can get away with whatever you like?
?Lighten up Kada!?
Yeah I know, but to me it just makes a mockery of this project and other people?s guild threads and is worse than some of the threads that have been deleted from here. Things I don\'t like to see and make me start to wonder if I shouldn\'t be spending any more time here.
EDIT: Oh, the threads have gone - I\'ll just shut my mouth :P
*still confused* :rolleyes:
Its a game, people come here for entertainment. it is supposed to be entertaining. In my mind the point of the fruit guilds was - as community we can have fun we dont need to be serious and constantly at each others throats. I guess you missed the point kada.
But fine, lets go back to the serious competitiveness. And if \'things\' you \'dont like to see\' make you want to leave, maybe we should all conform to your opinion of how we should act? Posts like this make me want to lrave, this community is two serious, too prideful, too arrogant and too competitive.
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I apologize to both of you, but this kind of \"lets all flame people who have fun\" thread wind me up intensely. And yes my spelling was less then perfect.
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That\'s extremely gracious of you Zeph, thank you :)
I\'m so pleased that we can actually work these things out sometimes without needing to be constantly deleted :)
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I am apologising for upsetting you/flaming you, doesn?t mean my opinions have changed :P. I guess to be honest I was kind of upset to see the fruit threads go, I found them fun. This thread kind of got the brunt of my annoyance as I felt like you were insulting my sense of humour.
Edit: or even worse than insulting my sense of humour, accusing me of mocking Planeshift, a game and community I truly care about.
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Talking about lemons makes as much sense as any flaming. However it is fun and not depressing/oppressing and fruits are healthy and tasty :D.
This also shows that mods care about flame wars as much as fruit wars XD.
Stupid and immature? Geez why do you people get like that? What about being all touchy because people were talking about lemons?
:P So where are we gonna discuss about lemons now? :P
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I agree it is all in good fun and gets our minds off the other garbage being brought up in the forums :D LEMONS RULE!!
EDIT: Plus I am kind of disappointed that they deleted the previos lemon threads and orange threads and cherry threads because I lost quite a bit of posts :P
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It was real good Depthblade, I laughed alot.
Unfortunaly some people didn\'t think it was funny, go figure.
I am still a Lemon Empire member so: DEATH TO THE ORANGES! AND THEIR FOUL ALLIES THE STRAWBERRIES! :P
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jees...ill just let some of these comments slide...I would like to know what \"flames\" that \"I\" brought about. Sure, the orange king and I were bashing each others fruit guilds but it was purely IC and the lines between OOC and IC were not blurred or crossed. Me and the \"orange king\" are actually good friends OOC.
I was trying to set an example as to how roleplayed guild wars should work in a humorous way. in my opinion it was alot better than seeing \"I h4xx0r j00!1!!\" and in reply,\"0mg j00 h4xx0r!! I w4r 0n j00!!1 y0u 4nd your gui1d suxx0rz!!\"
Yea...Somehow that does not qualify as IC in my eyes. If anyone has a problem with what I did or am doing, PM me about it and spare the forum addition flames and spam.
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Long discussions of what does and does not count as a flame will not go anywhere but deletion. Please don\'t let a lighthearted relief of tension degenerate into the same hurt feelings and bickering that the Fruit Wars were meant to be a relief from.
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I see the point of both sides here...
It\'s quite ironic how people who are so critical of other people being correct and on topic starting a lemon guild... I mean, lemons don\'t even exist in planeshift...
But for the other side, yes it was quite a good thing to do as people did get some fun outta it.. (just not me. :P) and it was a bit of a relief after the mass flameing session. (Although it\'s noticable who easily people will start flaming each other at every possible opportunity. :D *hint, this thread*)
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well look what it turned into...
An action that was meant and resulted in lots of people having fun got followed by \"flaming\" thread.
Sorry lady Kada-El, you know I have a lot of respect for you, but this thread wasn\'t needed. You should have more faith in Aelya and her actions :)
\'Tis a pity that someone who did something good for community gets flamed for it...
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Indeed, remind me never to care again :rolleyes:
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Don?t turn what I said into something it?s not Drak.
What I said was not a flame, nor was it directed at an individual. I came here to see quite long threads by different people, on a forum which had just been declared an experiment into some strict moderation. I couldn?t understand why they were still here, unless they were there to make some point which needed making here and I needed to have that clarified. By the time I had finished posting this, the threads had been deleted, so much of what I said had been answered.
I?m sorry that it has seemed to degenerate into another bout of flaming, believe it or not, that was not my intention ? I?m beginning to think I can hardly post here anymore and have to be so careful about everything I say. I?m not going to continue what I have to say any further because I?m not helping things and I?ll probably stir just stir up trouble?..again.
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sorry, I didn\'t mean to sound like you flamed anyone... I ment the Altharion fellow :(
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Sorry people, I know I can take things too seriously sometimes, but it?s just I sometimes see inequality here. When it suits people they call it just a bit of fun, but when it doesn?t, people are accused of spamming up the forums with irrelevant rubbish ? you can?t have it both ways.
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I already said this, this community is too bloodlusted ^^... everyone is waiting to find a hole in other people\'s shield to shoot.
People react too harshly, even when some one is trying to cheer up the forum. And they make the same mistake over and over again. The worst part is that they think they are helping the community.
Altharion you were one of the few (Well Kada too, but she wasn\'t aware of what was happening) to dislike the joke. The majority was enjoying... unless you are a community I don\'t see how it was us who were stepping back on the community.
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The entire Fruit Wars thing was there to help people get over all this negativity that\'s been on the boards. Unfortunantly some mods don\'t want people having that fun.
Everyone enjoyed them and got a good laugh out of it (Except Altharion, oh well) But I won\'t let them die. Not while there are Lemons still alive!!
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Yes yes...Plenty of lemony goodness to go around!!
PS: heathen oranges must be vanquished!!
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Originally posted by Kada-El
Sorry people, I know I can take things too seriously sometimes, but it?s just I sometimes see inequality here. When it suits people they call it just a bit of fun, but when it doesn?t, people are accused of spamming up the forums with irrelevant rubbish ? you can?t have it both ways.
And right now it suits people.
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Fall to the will of the cherries your new masters in this realm
See tons of fun :P
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Originally posted by Kada-El
Sorry people, I know I can take things too seriously sometimes, but it?s just I sometimes see inequality here. When it suits people they call it just a bit of fun, but when it doesn?t, people are accused of spamming up the forums with irrelevant rubbish ? you can?t have it both ways.
My theory for all this (*points upward*) is that everyone is bored out of their mind with the wait for CB, and as a result, they release all their stress on others. Is LLW back up yet?, that will give poeple things to do...
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Last night I saw the Lemons threads, etc. developing and it seemed a little spammy but I also found it creative and satirical of other prior guild wars, so I left them. I did delete a thread in another forum that really was totally useless spam about fruit, but I left the guild ones for the reasons I just stated. Mogura today found them spammy, so she deleted them entirely. :-) Ok whatever.
The \"experiment\" I announced was about stricter moderation of attacks on each others\' guilds, not about spam in this forum. I think we\'ve been better about spam. I have allowed the stupid \"We declare war on Guild X\" posts because I thought it spiced up the guilds\' existence--but now I think they do more harm than good.
How about let\'s try another experiment as well. Let\'s stop expecting everything to be totally fair, totally consistent or totally whatever. We come out here to the boards whenever we get some free time and we try to clean things up--there is no science involved and no exact measurements are taken. :-) If you see something you think we\'ve missed, PM me and I\'ll address it or explain why I have not addressed it.
Kada, yes I probably would have deleted this thread earlier if I had been here earlier, but I\'m only here about every 24 hrs or so. Since it kinda ended up ok by the end, I\'ll leave it.
- Vengeance
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alot of flamy replies and answers have gotten in my lap lately :) .
Sangwa my posts was not an act to help the community, i thought that the fruit thing was not needed.
mr. Orange many others did\'nt seem like it was so much fun as the rest of the community did, seems like i became that head person.
TheGeneral i definetly don\'t think banning mogura will help the community. i for one definetly support her action.
(Vengeance) Anth|Altharionn: Do the forums have an obligation to 100% compliance with your standard of what is funny?
i hope not but i do hope that the forums have some standard of how low it will go. (not saying that the fruit thing is low, because i dont want to argue this if it migth come to that)
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well I think breaking up the fould moodieness of the forumies was all well and needed, and hey the next time tension needs breaking: I say we all get naked and break out the Margaritas :)
whos with me? :)
fine I\'l do it alone then, not like its the first time...
so I guess we can all say that this whole thing wasnt entirely...
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FRUITLESS!!
GWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by Vengeance
It\'s just a fricken forum, people! :-)
Are you sure you?re the real Venge? :P
Sorry to say this, but I am shocked that you would publicly criticize in any way, the decision of a mod that you appointed, that is not a good move and you risk hurting what you have worked so hard to set up here. In effect, such moves and drastic changes in your own policies here undermine the decisions and the authority of other moderators, making a difficult job even harder.
You have trusted people with the power to moderate these forums for a long time now, and they have done a very good job of it, often under very difficult circumstances. Perhaps if you want to change something at least give them the courtesy of communicating it (in private), so that you can all appear to have a united front, at least in the eyes of the community.
Just my humble opinion
*prepares for the onslaught*
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Originally posted by Kada-El
Sorry to say this, but I am shocked that you would publicly criticize in any way, the decision of a mod that you appointed, that is not a good move and you risk hurting what you have worked so hard to set up here. In effect, such moves and drastic changes in your own policies here undermine the decisions and the authority of other moderators, making a difficult job even harder.
You have trusted people with the power to moderate these forums for a long time now, and they have done a very good job of it, often under very difficult circumstances. Perhaps if you want to change something at least give them the courtesy of communicating it (in private), so that you can all appear to have a united front, at least in the eyes of the community.
Just my humble opinion
*prepares for the onslaught*
*onslaughts*
So Moogie deleted something Venge decided to keep. Venge isn\'t critisizing Moogie. He\'s just saying he had a different opinion. So maybe he didn\'t agree 100%, there\'s no suggestion here that Moogie is somehow not doing her job right. IMO Moogie has the full support of the other mods unless she does something completely ridiculous, am I right?
No, I\'m not missing the point. I\'m missing the point of the point, but not the point itself.
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Unless Mogura and Veangence share the same brain or Mogura is only a bouncer mod for Vengeance, i don\'t see how they can agree on everything ...
I really think people that don\'t find a thread fun simply should avoid to look at it. Seriously, the fruit war doesn\'t take that much room in the Guild forum and doesn\'t spam other guild posts. Don\'t care about these thread if you aren\'t interested.
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Originally posted by elscouta
Unless Mogura and Veangence share the same brain or Mogura is only a bouncer mod for Vengeance, i don\'t see how they can agree on everything ...
Well, I wouldn\'t say \'bouncer\' mod, but it\'s not like I make up my own rules. I follow the rules that Venge and Talad give to me, and things like this go wrong when decisions change and I\'m not informed.
I didn\'t expect Venge to suddenly change his mind about being strict on spam here, and I wasn\'t told. Thus I\'m the one who suffers as a result, as usual.
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no one is really blaming you.
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that\'s some great skill in avoiding the point of one\'s post 8o
let me point that out:
- If Venge wanted those threads deleted, he would do it himself, if you checked the threads, you had to notice Venge was posting there as well.
- The Lemon Empire thread was stating that it isn\'t a joke.
- The same thread stated that Aelya wants to make website for it.
[/color]
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pickle, eh? Perhaps the two of you should start a guild :rolleyes: It\'s true that the Fruit Wars were spamalicious, and completely understandable that someone could miss the validity of the Lemons guild... and now their threads remain. Has much harm been done?
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I think the true point remains, IF people are having fun, and it\'s an actual topic, like a story, or some sort of play war, LEAVE IT BE. You can always delet after everyone is done. And those that spam should not be preaching about spaming themselfs. If having 15+ posts a FREAKING DAY, and having the highest post count in 5 months is not spamming, then I DUN KNOW WTF spamming is.
Frankly, I think this community has gone to hell in a big basket labeled \"Forum rules and correctness-ness.\" It has banned and kicked out all the people that made it half decent, and traded the rest for loud mouth whatever-nots. And I dun mean just the old people, I enjoyed the company of many newcomers, but even those post here rarely anymore. Maybe they all got lifes now, or maybe they just hate us, either way, TO HELL IN A BASKET.
I still stand united on the issue of random public bannings.
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It is a sure way to keep the forums small. When I used to post quite often I saw a few newbies driven away be sheer animosity.
Its pretty depressing really, is it really so hard to be civil? I think TheGeneral said it best and I hope Davis and I are only the first of many to make note of it.
I don\'t intend to say anymore on the subject, I\'d prefer to stay out of the stream of discontent. Meanwhile I hope people are able to regain their composure, and maintain it.
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Originally posted by Davis
Also, they ignore a very revolutionary moderation technique: Tempbans.
Actually, Whemyfield was given a temp ban and then put on \"probation\", a second chance which he (quite stupidly) wasted.
Kiern is also on a temp ban untill he apologises. Public or private, it doesn\'t matter. The point is, you don\'t go round insulting mods on the boards and expect us to be happy about it... :P (t\'is logical, when you think about it...)
So no, I don\'t think this technique has been ignored amongst the relatively small number of people that have ever been banned from this forum. And of that number, very little seem to truely want or care about coming back. So afaics there\'s no problem, is there? :)
Btw. I didn\'t see Venge\'s posts on the fruit thingy thread. I looked at two threads and saw them filled with spam, so I classified them all as spam and didn\'t give it a second thought. If I had been aware that discussions about fruit was now acceptable, I wouldn\'t have done it. :) But now I do know, so, no permanent harm done. :) I\'m gonna talk to Talad and get myself removed from moderating the Guilds area, unless Venge has any objections.
PM me if you do. :P
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As for the deletion of the fruit threads, as I\'ve said, I think it was an honest mistake and no further discussion is neccessary. As for removing your modership, I don\'t neccessarily support that, but it\'s your decision, not mine. I\'m sure you gave it the thought it was due.
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This is not about Kiern, besides it was Venge who banned Kiern ? Moogie can do nothing to directly change that even if she wanted to. In fact she has made several steps to influence the return of Kiern, not the other way round.
I don?t think that such open animosity and criticism is helping the matter or the community. Sometimes I may not agree with moderation decisions, but Mogura has consistently moderated these forums well according to the rules given to her. Even if Venge posts in a thread, if it?s spam according to those rules, then it would get deleted. It was not her mistake at all deleting those threads, she was doing her job in the same way her bosses have always wanted. If there is a change in that policy then the moderators should know about it first.
Moderators were appointed to the forums after much whining by the community that not enough was being done, and the place was getting out of hand, and now that control has been imposed you want rid of it (or replace it with someone you think would do the job more to your liking). This is always going to be a problem with communities such as this: the group is important to us, so if there is a lack of moderation we cry out for it and if moderators actively control the structure here then we call it censorship.
I don?t know about that many other communities, but the ones I have seen would not allow such open abuse towards a moderator. I myself have indeed been banned from communities ? not for abuse, but for simply challenging moderators on the way things are run. I don?t believe such harsh treatment would ever happen here, but some of the posts here would have resulted in a ban straight away, no questions asked.
Venge once pointed me in the direction of a very interesting article, that highlights some community issues very well.
http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html (http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html)
?Nothing causes a group to galvanize like an external enemy. So even if someone isn\'t really your enemy, identifying them as an enemy can cause a pleasant sense of group cohesion. And groups often gravitate towards members who are the most paranoid and make them leaders, because those are the people who are best at identifying external enemies.?
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i would like to see even more mod controlled boards.
agree with kada as always.
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Okay this is weird, I come back from holidays and I see fruit everywhere. From my point of view this is just spam and I agree with Moogie for deleting some of these cherry, orange, apple and lemon threads. C\'mon don\'t just try to bitch at the mods, they\'re doing the best they can and be honest... All this fruit-crap was leaning heavily towards spam.
The Lemon Empire thing might have been funny, but no reason to turn the forum into spam. This kinda reminds me of a staalplaat/baksteen-thingy on another forum, that didn\'t give nearly as much spam as this fruit though. 8o
p.s. w00t I\'m no longer a triple-ass, but I am now a routinier! :)
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Originally posted by Altharion
i would like to see even more mod controlled boards.
Just for clarification, I have no respect for you or your opinions, so I\'m not going to honor you with an explanation. You are an idiot.
?Nothing causes a group to galvanize like an external enemy. So even if someone isn\'t really your enemy, identifying them as an enemy can cause a pleasant sense of group cohesion. And groups often gravitate towards members who are the most paranoid and make them leaders, because those are the people who are best at identifying external enemies.?
Exactly. That\'s why we aren\'t going to have world peace until there\'s another world for us to hate. I think the main point we should be looking at, however, is how nobody is every satisfied. When the authorities respond to every complaint people make, nobody is going to get anywhere, because there will always be people who don\'t like the way things are. I say that the way the forums are run is and should stay in the hand of the admins here, because they will never have the entire communities support on anything and will have to deal with that. You can only do your best, you can\'t make everyone love you.
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Originally posted by Syzerian
but anyway, how can these \'temp bans\' say they are sorry when they are banned from the site ?(
come to dev irc channel or something I guess...
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ban from irc aswell ;)
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There\'s also this brilliant invention called \"e-mail\". ;)
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Well, instead of posting a new thread about this, I\'ll post it here.
I don\'t know about you guys, but I have seen enough fruit these past few weeks to last me a lifetime. Don\'t you think its time to call it quits on the great produce war?
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Originally posted by Dameon
Well, instead of posting a new thread about this, I\'ll post it here.
I don\'t know about you guys, but I have seen enough fruit these past few weeks to last me a lifetime. Don\'t you think its time to call it quits on the great produce war?
That\'s something the community can do. We don\'t have to leave it to the mods. As you can see, it\'s becoming less popular, and will soon die. No need for administrative intervention.
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I don\'t know about you guys, but I have seen enough fruit these past few weeks to last me a lifetime. Don\'t you think its time to call it quits on the great produce war?
As was stated already many times. The Lemon Guild and Orange guilds are actual guilds. Not spam. Actual guild. With members and sites to be made. There are no rules about what a guild can and cannot be. Therefore they are breaking no rules. Which is the whole reason we got mad at their thread deletions. Now all these other fruits are just trying to copy us....
Oh and Altharion. Shut up.[/COLOR]
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Originally posted by AendarCallenlasse
Oh and Altharion. Shut up.
*nods*
Anyway, real guilds or not, they won\'t last, but them dying should have nothing to do with the mods.
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Anyway, real guilds or not, they won\'t last, but them dying should have nothing to do with the mods.
They probably won\'t last but they people are having fun so why stop?
And no the mods should have nothing to do with it.[/COLOR]
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The only people who dislike it are the ones who didn\'t saw it start... oh and Altharion...
They didn\'t hear the beginning of the joke that\'s why they don\'t understand it and since the first threads were deleted they won\'t know or understand it ^^
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Maybe the \"fruit\" guilds wont last, maybe they will. No one can know for sure. But I am sure the original fruit guilds (lemon and orange guild) won\'t be dissapearing anytime soon.
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Don\'t get me wrong, it was hilarious at first... but I thought it would only last a day. I dunno, just seems a little played out... not trying to discourage you from having fun.
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As was stated already many times. The Lemon Guild and Orange guilds are actual guilds. Not spam. Actual guild. With members and sites to be made. There are no rules about what a guild can and cannot be. Therefore they are breaking no rules. Which is the whole reason we got mad at their thread deletions. Now all these other fruits are just trying to copy us....
Oh and Altharion. Shut up.
The first thread in hydlaa was okay.
I did not like the fruit guilds, i think it\'s not serious and just boring spam. i have already stopped arguing you for a long time and i started to post some other places.
Davis i really am tired of you trying to be a smart ass against me.
The only people who dislike it are the ones who didn\'t saw it start... oh and Altharion...
They didn\'t hear the beginning of the joke that\'s why they don\'t understand it and since the first threads were deleted they won\'t know or understand it ^^
is there much to understand??
it\'s not true that only people that disliked the thread came later on. Axsyrus told me to flame Lemons in the forums on irc, i did not hesitate because i kinda hate lemons. the Aendar asked me to form an alliance against the lemons i hesitated since i am more of a junk food person the a fruit person. when the threads and posts came flooding on the guild forum i called you some pretty insulting things, but you reply with even more. i then fled the fruit war. There were other reasons other then that the fruit threads were spammy.
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is there much to understand??
It hasn\'t much, but you didn\'t understand it anyway...
It\'s quite simple: It\'s about funny (even if official and real) guilds in war.
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Originally posted by AendarCallenlasse
And no the mods should have nothing to do with it
I agree that they should have nothing to do with the possible dying of the guilds, but mods will always have something to do with spam.
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Originally posted by Altharion
Davis i really am tired of you trying to be a smart ass against me.
And I\'m really tired of you being a dumbass. There\'s a way to work this out.
Originally posted by Skizzik
I agree that they should have nothing to do with the possible dying of the guilds, but mods will always have something to do with spam.
Exactly. If somebody takes the fruit war to another thread, then it\'s spam. If it\'s self-contained, then it\'s guilds.