PlaneShift
Fan Area => Fan Art => Topic started by: Moogie on July 04, 2004, 08:57:24 pm
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Hi all,
Today I\'ve been doodling and playing around with various \"dodge, burn and smudge\" techniques. Here\'s what I currently have:
(http://www.seperot.com/moogie/images/Gryphon_quickcolour.jpg)
Overall, I\'m quite pleased with how I can manipulate the colours to achieve the desired highlights and shadows. But I\'d like to extend this further and also \'colour in\' a feathery texture.
I know this must be possible, using brush shape dynamics and such. Can anyone give me some advice? Thanks. :)
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First of all, thats a nice pict. And the colours so far look great.
But about burn etc. I cant tell much, coz I dont have alot of experiens in i, but what I know is that its alot of practice :P
I personnaly use a layer above it with ctrl-g, then that layer copasity on 31 and status: overlay and dark over the original layer. For highligt-screen.
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Might aswell post this here (gonna post it on my art thread aswell), but I\'ve listened to various people\'s advice (I asked on IRC too, hehe) and I must say, the improvement is immense.
(http://www.seperot.com/moogie/images/Gryphon_2.jpg)
I did a few things. Firstly, even though it was just a doodle, I decided to remove the hard outline and fluff the edges of the coloured layers in replacement. I used dodge and burn, but this time with \"spattered\" brushes so they would create smooth lines as I painted. I went over these with some more smudging to help the effect.
All of this put together resulted in the pic above. Thanks for all the help, I think I\'ve got the idea now. :)
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Looks amazing without the outline, much more realistic :D Don\'t forget to give the gryph nostrils though! In most birds it\'s on the cere, the tissue above the beak. Also, I\'d suggest darkening the shadows of the beak itself more. Right now it\'s too purely orange - maybe put in some browns, to tie it in with the feathers. And darken the pupil too, unless you\'re aiming for that shadowy-misty-eye look :)
Have to say though, you\'ve done an incredible work with the feathers themselves.
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i agree with karyuu.
amazing work moogie :)
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I think I\'ll just post the final version on my art thread- I\'m never gonna get tired of this, it\'s great fun. :)
(http://www.seperot.com/moogie/images/Gryphon_3.jpg)
Here I carried on working with the feathers and completely changed the shape of the beak. It looks much better. The colour has been desaturated somewhat in certain places. I made sure to include the nostril :) and the skin that grows partly over the base of the beak.
[Edit: About the eye, I\'m still undecided about what colour/shade it\'ll be. :)]
Thanks for the tips Karyuu. :) Keep the comments coming, help me improve!
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Looks much more predatory - I love it! :D Can\'t wait to see the final version.
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the head looks abit small ?(
but meh wanna see the lion body now :))
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Much better now :)
Ill just post my version if you dont mind :D
(http://img34.photobucket.com/albums/v104/andors/g3.jpg)
You can see here most of the brushes i used. Some are self made. And remember Smudge, Dodge and Burn are the best friends for ppl who have no tablet :) For the final look i used the Crosshatch filter, for removing the outlines - the clone stamp tool, played a bit with curves and Hue/saturation.
Uhm... yeah, the shape isnt realy the same... :rolleyes:
Eh, and i know nothing about bird wing anatomy
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good drawing Crj but is it supposed to look like a canary? and dosnt it also need the nostrils mentioned before?
again both great drawings and i also want to see the lion body
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wauw, both look great :D
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Any tips for those with tablets? I shelled out $100 for a graphire2 awhile back, but I can\'t seem to figure out how to make the best use of it. Can anyone share their brush settings?
Very nice coloring Moogie, and Crj, looks very pro.
Nice furry edges on the feathers and the breast. Looks very realistic.
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Just another quick update:
(http://www.seperot.com/moogie/images/Gryphon_5.jpg)
Things I\'ve done here include extra highlighting of the wing, some changes of the colouration and shadows around the head and chest, and the addition of the hands. I\'m not happy with them, but after 2 hours of fiddling and re-drawing, I\'ve given up on them. :P The rear body guidelines are in place... not entirely happy with them either, but it\'s the best I can get from studying various photos of lions and gryphons in similar positions.
Btw I\'d like to hear the replies to icebr4kr also, I don\'t have a graphics tablet but I may save up and get one someday. :)
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ouch! the claws! so bright, they burn my eyes
you just need to darken them up a bit
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yeah many parts are like that.
the nails on the claws should be longer which would improve it in the realistic part.
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Originally posted by Syzerian
ouch! the claws! so bright, they burn my eyes
you just need to darken them up a bit
I know, but I can\'t... :(
Because the highlights are so bright, and the shadows are so pitch black, any attempt I make trying to lighten/darken the hands causes the opposite problem to worsen. I want to fix it, but I dont want to have to re-colour the hands from scratch.
Perhaps there is a way to \"level\" the two extremes somehow...? Bring them to a more related shade so they arn\'t as contrasted? Using brightness/contrast just makes things go grey.
Any help appreciated. :) Oh and btw, I\'m currently working on the lion end and tail. :)
[Edit: Updated pic. Lookie! I found a way (kinda) to fix the hands. Turns out there is actually a feature called \"Equalise\" which came into my mind when trying to figure out how to tackle it. I tried it, and hey presto! Exactly what I wanted. They\'re still a bit bright, but I think it\'s an improvement. I\'ve got good feedback about the pose of the whole body, but any additional comments about it would be fabulous. Ty :)]
http://www.seperot.com/moogie/images/Gryphon_6.jpg
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Very well done. I think the shiney is nice, since the bg is white the whole picture looks really bright, but if you were to use an actual bg, or a darker colour, I think the highlights would make the claws look metalic, and menacing, which is not really a bad thing. :)
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Nice!
Some comments:
- the back claws in the lion part seem to come from nowhere.
- the back leg seems too flat. maybe make it look more like a \"hind leg.\" also it is a little too wide compared with the rest of the animal
- add another back leg :)
Overall, it looks very soft and furry :P. Yes, I agree that you should choose a darker background (even a simple color fill will do), and maybe add something that the animal is sitting on so it can interact more with the scene.
Please explain: the arms are part of the lion, but instead of hands, it has claws? I don\'t think any bird would have huge arms like that :P. Maybe you should make the front have lion claws as well (although I like the talons, they are really bright)?
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the light on the back leg seems to come from many random directions which is giving it a flat look
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Originally posted by icebr4kr
Any tips for those with tablets? I shelled out $100 for a graphire2 awhile back, but I can\'t seem to figure out how to make the best use of it. Can anyone share their brush settings?
I got me a graphire 3 and I use it for efverything, thats great practice. Trow that mouse out and use the tablet :)
As for the rest, my brush settings, dunno, always depends on what Im going to do :P Just with colouring thats usually around 10 pix.
I have to adjust the sensetivity of my tablet, its way to strong, with the smallest push I get a huge brush :P
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Ty for comments :)
About the \'scene\': Don\'t worry, I have big plans for the background and the Gryphon\'s perch. ;) I\'m leaving it untill last though.
icebr4kr: Google the word \"Gryphon\". ;) It is a mythological creature which is depicted in a variety of ways, but most commonly (and mostly by recent artists) shown with the head of a hawk, bird-like claws/wings and a lion\'s back half.
I\'ll see what I can do about the hind leg.
Thanks again! *gets to work*
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If you ever feel the need to look at great pictures of gryphons for reference, check out Nambroth\'s elfwood gallery (http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/loth/j/e/jenmiller/jenmiller.html) - it\'s very inspiring :)
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Wow, she truely is a fantastic artist! That is some incredible work. :) I have an Elfwood gallery, but I don\'t update it anymore. The moderators send back half of my work with silly reasons as to why they can\'t be put up. (\"This isn\'t fantasy\" @ a dragon picture... eh!?) and the ticket queue is so long that it takes several weeks to a month for any updates to the gallery to be approved.
Ok, this time I need more position feedback- I\'m re-drawing that broken old wing :D She\'ll now have a grand outstretched limb which will, hopefully, be anatomically correct (with your input :) ).
http://www.seperot.com/moogie/images/Gryphon_wingtest.jpg
(Some small changes: Feathers are hopefully less blurred now. The eye looks more \"bird-of-prey\". The hind leg has been re-coloured somewhat).
I studied some bird wing pictures for the pose. There\'s three sections- the lesser coverts, the greater coverts, and the primary/secondary feathers.
I\'d also like to know what you think about the colours; when I start to properly texture/colour them, they won\'t stay that exact colour... please note that. :) They will be vagely the same shade, however.
Is the brown > orange > red a good order, or perhaps brown > red > orange would look better?
[Edit: Oh well, nm about the colour advice, I went ahead as planned. :) I got some tips from a couple of people, including SaintNuclear (thanks again;)) and decided to give it a try. This, version #7, is now what I could call the \"complete\" vesion, bar a few improvements here and there. Next comes the background... and the final piece will be posted on my artwork thread.]
(http://www.seperot.com/moogie/images/Gryphon_7.jpg)
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There are two things that mainly bother me right now, but they can be easily fixed :} The first is the hind leg - it\'s bent incorrectly. I\'ve tried doing a quick search for some reference you could use, but alas, didn\'t come up with many as my time is limited right now, but there\'s something quick: http://www.artarchive.org/scripts/service/action/showimg.asp?image=hoshi_griff.jpg&artist=Angel_Rising&p=1
The second thing is the talons on the forefeet. I think the curve is way too strong. How about extending the length of the talons? Here\'s a reference picture (from http://www.snowwowl.com/rlwarbirds1.html)
(http://www.snowwowl.com/images/warriorbirds/index.17.jpg)
Other than that, I think the coloring you\'ve decided on for the wings is great :) My only other suggestion would be to enlarge the length of the wing where it connects to the body. Right now it doesn\'t seem as if the gryph could take off at all, because the wing is only attached to the shoulder. (And don\'t forget to add a second one in there - while a single wing can look ornate, two, if only you have a tiny bit of the other showing, is always more realistic :})
And that\'s it :D Full speed ahead! You\'re doing a wonderful job so far!
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my tips on photoshop
don\'t use this burn smuge dodge stuff...
I\'m not shure if photoshop is the right thing to get started with, when having no exp in traditional materials, another thing is if you really want some tips go to http://www.conceptart.org, theres tons of stuff you can rely on and ask questions on irc or in the forums.
Heres the wrong place to develope your artistic skills, most of the replies are too positive and this is gonna make you too confident about yourself and your skills.
This is no offense you have talent but as i said its the wrong place to get some level ups ^^
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One thing... the spread of the feathers. To Savion, it seems like all the bird is doing is lazily putting its wing up rather than stretching it.... try spacing the wing feathers out a little at the tip.
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don\'t use this burn smuge dodge stuff...
I agree that it is very basic, but what are the alternatives?
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i think it looks very nice, however, i think the eye lacks depth, and it looks like someone killed the gryphon and stuffed it, the eye is glazed over and it doesn\'t look like there\'s life behind it. so.......yeah my 0.02
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Originally posted by icebr4kr
don\'t use this burn smuge dodge stuff...
I agree that it is very basic, but what are the alternatives?
Add color by hand, smudge/blend. Add, blend. Add, blend. It\'s a lot more fun, and you get tons more color variation and control :D
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Thanks for the extra tips all :)
I agree that the eye looks glazed over. I\'ll see if I can make that more realistic.
Karyuu: That sounds interesting and fun :) I\'m considering drawing a Megaras next, and I think I\'ll use that technique and experiment with it.
And for all the tips I\'ve received, here\'s one of my own to other artists. Don\'t do the \"lasso the space and fill with colour\" thing. When colouring a line drawing, have the lines on a seperate layer, and just paint your colours all the way up to and even over the edge of the lines. Infact, do this on all the lines you can see- make sure you have filled the entire space. After you\'ve coloured, textured and fiddled with the colour layer to perfection, you can erase the bits outside the lines.
Trust me, there is nothing more frustrating than deselecting an area to find nasty little white lines and dots around the edges. It\'s ugly, and (dare I say) makes the whole piece look quite ammateur. :)
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Great work moogie. It\'s cool to see how something is made out of nothing...
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Yop, really nice work Moogie.
You should start to change the background. You\'ll see it will affect a lot your perception of colors. (use a grey background for example).
Instead of color burn (which will destroy too much colors) you should use multiply mode. It will darken too but more constantly. Color dodge is good, but not on too big surface, it\'s perfect for small highlight.
You can use screen mode to light up. Just try to use the color you want to light with it. (example: use dark red in screen mode to light up a red color).
After everything depend of what you want. You can use the smudge tool, which is pretty powerful, or just use a rougher brushes, to have something harder.
A good techniques is to start making shadows and highlights and then you go back to a normal mode of blending at 50% opacity and you paint picking colors on your drawing.