PlaneShift

Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nightmort on July 09, 2004, 11:19:04 am

Title: About mana
Post by: Nightmort on July 09, 2004, 11:19:04 am
Which skill, or stat, add mana points? how to increase them?
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Post by: Watcher on July 09, 2004, 05:13:18 pm
http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/board.php?boardid=1&sid=d22bfdb8ef4e8e9a06744f50a107013c points to there. You might want to know that there is no mana points atm and there isnt going to be mana (I dont think there is) in any version. They are going to use something called glyimps (sp?)
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Post by: dfryer on July 09, 2004, 06:30:31 pm
glyimps?  Perhaps you mean \"glyphs\" (pronounced \"gliffs\" for anyone who has trouble with bizarre english spelling)
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Post by: (ryeenae) on July 09, 2004, 07:28:25 pm
oh man, please tell me they\'re not going to be like runes from RS
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Post by: dfryer on July 10, 2004, 12:45:24 am
Having never played RS, or for that matter PS with a magic system implemented, or for that matter PS *at all*, I couldn\'t tell you.  What specifically do you feel was weak about RS\'s magic system?
Title: I played RS
Post by: Dargerok on July 10, 2004, 01:30:36 am
And the weak in his magic system was that, for cast spells, you required a certain \"runes\", an items. Then, for example if you want to cast fire bolt, you need 3 fire runes and 1 air rune. So so boring to buy the runes (and a little expensive when you are thinking to cast 1000 fire bolts).
PLEASE, DO NOT REPEAT THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


EDIT: Oh, and, if there isn\' mana points, why Lemurs got +5 mana points at creation? Why enkidukai got -2 mana points? I think WILL be mana points. Just want to know how to increase them.
Title: Hey Dargerok...
Post by: Nightmort on July 10, 2004, 01:48:17 am
Was me who asked this question, remember?;)
Well, I see you are interesed on it too. Now we only can wait that anyone answer us...
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Post by: ForteX on July 10, 2004, 03:35:30 am
After looking at the skills I will guess how it will be:

By increasing the arcane lore skills (azure way, whatever way =P) you will spend less mana doing the spells, instead of having more mana. Or you could increase your mana by increasing this skills, both should work fine. But how to the growth would be is something that only devs can tell...
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Post by: druke on July 10, 2004, 04:26:06 am
..ok ok enough jibber jabber

mana is determined by your int, cha, and wis, theres a formula used with those that determines your mana

being better at magic doesn\'t decrease your mana usage, it merly makes you fail less, thus able to use more k-factor

dont ask me to explain k-factor, you\'ll find out soon enough
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Post by: Waylander on July 10, 2004, 11:01:33 am
Hey Druke, what is K-Factor

And wouldn\'t failing at spells less decrease your mana usage as you do not waste as much mana with failed spells.
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Post by: Kiva on July 10, 2004, 04:08:00 pm
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And wouldn\'t failing at spells less decrease your mana usage as you do not waste as much mana with failed spells.


That\'s what the whole K-factor idea is about. When you fail a spell, you lose control of it. Therefor it may/may not drain an excessive amount of your mana and backfire upon yourself. This means you may lose anywhere from 50% of the normal spell usage to your whole mana bar, and get some serious injuries on your character. So don\'t go fooling around, thinking you can cast the biggest spells in the game, simply by getting the combination from some uber-d00d. It\'s not going to work. As for the n00bs who accept the combinations and try them out, they\'ll figure out eventually what they did wrong if they blow themselves to atoms and die.

Now, back on topic. There will be mana and there will be glyphs. The glyphs aren\'t like in RneScape where you need to run around with 500 of each type. In PS there simply are a lot of diffrent runes needed to cast a lot of diffrent spells (they don\'t disappear after use), and these runes are then divided into the six ways (crystal, blue, brown, red, azure, dark). Each two ways has it\'s own stat (Crystal & Dark use Charisma, etc.) and all of the stats Druke mentioned will be part of the formula that calculates how much mana you have at your disposal.
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Post by: druke on July 11, 2004, 01:06:44 am
k-factor is also how powerful a spell is if i\'m not mistaken
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Post by: windwalker on July 11, 2004, 03:51:14 am
the k factor determines how powerfull the spell will be but theres also different levels of spells
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Post by: Harwen on July 11, 2004, 04:58:40 am
I would imagine it would be sorta klunky to have  a newbie mage have to drop mana pots like crazy because his \"Butane Lighter\" spell keeps going crazy, draining 99.99 % of his mana points and doing only 0 points of damage to the enemy, while setting his own hair ablaze.

Perhaps with something so technical, it would be wise to go toward a more classic approach? Critical fumbles like in combat?

Perhaps a damage backfire would be less annoying for a mage-type character, I don\'t see why failing to damage, or to cast but still costing mana isn\'t enough.

Or maybe the K-Factor ( Is this suppsoed to be a cute way of standing for Chaos? Please PM me if you know where this is from I\'m clueless.) Should only happen with high damage uber-type spells? ?(
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Post by: Seytra on July 11, 2004, 06:06:50 am
I think \"k\" stands for \"kill\". If you have a higk k-factor, you can cast more d34dly sp3llz! Or for \"k3wln355\" ;)

Seriously, it\'ll combine everything in a complicated, page-filling formula, outputting a value called\"k\" for having already used the more creative and descriptive variable names on the other side of the equation. ;)
Therefore, if you\'re a newb, and if the \"butane lighter\" spell is what it sounds like, a lowlevel spell, k will equal to a chance of around 85% of success and also leaving the failures at being max. 25% desasterous (not draining all mana and not doing zero damage to enemy).
If it\'s a high-power spell, k will equal to somewhere of 0.000000000000001% of chance of success, leaving the desaster factor at 99.99999999999999%, with all that goes to mana usage and zero enemy damage.

IMO, k will incorporate
- your arcane lore
- your skill in the relevant way
- your skill in the spell itself
- your health
- your tiredness
- the spell\'s complexity
- the power level you set for the spell
- the time you take to cast the spell (more timr=more concentration=higher chance of success)
- any environmental issues (distraction, etc.)
- glyph pureness (if there are levels and not just \"purte\" and \"impure\"
- a random factor
- my wish (the most important factor :) )

k will affect:
- mana drain
- damage to enemy
- damage to you and environment
- look of the spell

However this is just my personal interpretation and the way I believe it would be cool.
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Post by: Harwen on July 11, 2004, 06:30:07 am
Thanks, that makes everything MUCH clearer  :P

Well, simplicity is the key is what I always say. Oh well  8)
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Post by: josephoenix on July 11, 2004, 07:04:38 am
#include
using namespace std;

kfactor()
{
   srand(time(NULL));
   int k = rand() % 100;
   return;
}

Simplicity at its finest... although I could assign k the value 999999... but that would be cheating! Surely paladin jr. would catch that?! :P

josePhoenix
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Post by: Harwen on July 11, 2004, 07:12:21 am
Oh, fine, just pick on the guy who can\'t understand a simple \"Hello World!\" much less whatever the gibberish that hell was :(


(Jeezz, am I bombing the forums tonight)
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Post by: druke on July 11, 2004, 07:16:27 am
thats quite accurate seytra
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Post by: windwalker on July 11, 2004, 07:18:30 am
you know if you would actually read what grono wrote, .... you\'d get it
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Post by: druke on July 11, 2004, 07:20:30 am
i dunno, not as much reading on the c++ thingy
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Post by: Harwen on July 11, 2004, 08:13:00 am
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Originally posted by windwalker
you know if you would actually read what grono wrote, .... you\'d get it


I was asking where it originated :)
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Post by: windwalker on July 11, 2004, 09:18:06 pm
The caster can decide to convey more power into the spell, trying to create a greater effect. This it\'s usually a bit risky, since the spell can backfire, but it\'s the key to master the magic system.


.....the way magic should be!
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Post by: Xandria on August 30, 2004, 07:43:56 pm
Personally, I much prefer a magic system that is complicated like this.  I know a lot of previous RPG\'s took a lot of criticism about mages being overpowered, probably because it was true.  Spellcasters just needed to have tons of mana, and run around click-click-click-kill-pickuploot from a screen away without a care in the world.

I\'m sure this PS system will be fun to use once people get used to it.  And as it was mentioned before, it\'ll probably mean even fewer people will be \'pure\' spellcasters due to the fact that you cannot spam spells forever; you can only hold so many glyphs, and once they need to be recharged, you cannot continue to cast.  It seems that most early mage characters will probably have to learn some form of melee combat, or at least some martial skills aimed at evasion and esceape.

And I\'m really glad that there will (eventually) be a system to increase the power of spells.  I know in other games it\'s really frustrating to have only 100 spells to choose from, but only 5% do viable enough damage to use at later stages of your character.

Just proof that PS *will* be the best MMORPG to date :)
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Post by: Sifright on August 31, 2004, 12:19:21 pm
Wow ive said it before but i know a game that is has a magic system so simular to this one its painful no one has remember it..

Don\'t any of you remember \"Dungeon Master\" on the old atari system and the dos machine that magic system was alot like this one although certain complextys were not involved but if you want to see what the ps system will be like check that game out you can Download it free off then net but i dont know a link.
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Post by: Adeli on August 31, 2004, 04:28:08 pm
I believe that earlier today I found Dungeon Master...
I think the link you would be referring to is this...

http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?name=Dungeon+Master

I was looking for another game and came across this...
I could be mistaken but it\'s got the same name at least...
Apparently it\'s a revolutionary RPG... and it\'s only 800-900kb
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Post by: Bobkat on September 08, 2004, 06:13:40 pm
this has been a really informative thread, thanks to Grono and Seytra especially

so now I think i\'ve got this straight, K-factor determines the use of mana but mana is actually determined by another formula that works off of cha, wis and int, yes?

if this is so then is your mana pool static while your k-factor continues to get better and thus you use less and less mana with more experience instead of constantly getting more mana or do you also increase the base attribs (cha, wis, int) thus increasing your pool while also making your k-factor better (by upping your lore and skill in the way)?
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Post by: Androgos on September 08, 2004, 06:32:58 pm
Quote
Originally posted by josephoenix
#include
using namespace std;

kfactor()
{
   srand(time(NULL));
   int k = rand() % 100;
   return;
}

Simplicity at its finest... although I could assign k the value 999999... but that would be cheating! Surely paladin jr. would catch that?! :P

josePhoenix


That\'s no vaild code.
1. That program needs an entry point
2. That function has no return value
3. Is that really a good way to get a random value?

Sorry just had to.

No, paladin won\'t catch that, because it would get that far.
The server simply wont process it because it\'s an illegal action
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Post by: Bobkat on September 08, 2004, 11:33:42 pm
cool i found a thread (called \"kran armor\" i think) where grono answered my previous question, it seems the stat abilities will increase over time so your k-factor will get better and your mana pool will get bigger the more you practice

that is really an amazing system the devs have come up with, excellent work I just wish there was some way to contribute  .  .  .  maybe after i read in some more i can find something to help with