PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Asraniel on July 12, 2004, 10:44:28 am
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from the news site:
The magic system will have some interesting features in CB. You will compose spells by using glyphs, found in game mainly with completion of quests. Spells will have the ability to inflict damages, heal, improve or weaken a certain stat of a target creature, etc... The caster can decide to convey more power into the spell, trying to create a greater effect. This it\'s usually a bit risky, since the spell can backfire, but it\'s the key to master the magic system.
GREAT! That sounds almost like a magic system i \"invented\" some years ago, where you get runes (in this case glyphs) and combine them to create your own spell!! i always wanted to make a game with this magic system, but i never went very far, and finaly i see that someone had nearly the same idea :-) great, you dont know how much i wait on CB!!!
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Hmm. wait everyone knows. they all want it just as or more then you do.
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aye it is a great idea, but alot of us have been discussing this for a whiile, explaining this(this being how the magic system works)
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it looks cool and its original :) can\'t wait to play cb....really
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ARG!! I thought that CB was out when I first got a glance at the news, then I read it...I WANT MY CB :P
But yeah the magic system is pretty cool.
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Yup its really cool, the glyph thing will be really interesting, I mean now magic itself will have its own history. Which is something MMO\'s lacked.
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Ugh, I just hope it won\'t be as cumbersome as Runecraps\' rune thing.....not that it matters I\'ve never been very partial to magic. :D
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So, is there any chance that in the future, very skillful mages will be able to create their own spells? I mean with 5 million combinations, I\'m guessing that just a fraction will be used by the devs.
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Originally posted by Levski
So, is there any chance that in the future, very skillful mages will be able to create their own spells? I mean with 5 million combinations, I\'m guessing that just a fraction will be used by the devs.
I hope so!
Also I hope that the spells you can cast aren\'t limited to the oney you already _know_, allowing for experimentation!
This will be a major thrill, because you can arbitrarily combine runes and cast them, hoping the outcome will be a working spell. It might be possible to do an educated guess on the outcome, but it\'ll most likely be much harder to estimate the power of the resulting spell. If you\'re lucky, you can control the power despite your lack of experience with this spell (it\'s new, so :) ), but if not, you might have cast a lvl 50000 spell... Also, it might be \"self atomisation\", which may even be a level 0 spell, but I\'d rather have it fail :) .
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You might find that arbitrarily combining runes results in nasty \"side effects\".. like perhaps a tendency towards self-atomisation :)
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Creating your own spells? No.
Guessing the combination to unknown spells based on theories on how your current spells are put together? Possibly.
Would this require thinking? Most likely.*
* Note: Publishing combinations to spells ingame is against the PlaneShift license**. Therefor you would have to a) buy them ingame from someone who knows, and then trust they give you the right combination or b) figure them out yourself, either by randomly putting together the glyphs or by figuring out how the whole spell system works. Therefor, figuring out how spells work can be a tidious process that requires a decent amount of brain capacity, so if you\'re not in posession of this, you might just find it easier to buy the spells from others. :)
** Note: For those of you who might think I\'m lying, here\'s a C/P from the license: \"You may not copy, modify, publish, transmit, sell, participate in the transfer or sale or reproduce, create Derivative Works from, distribute, perform, display or in any way exploit any of the Material released under this License unless expressly permitted by the PlaneShift Team.\" So there you have it.
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It still might be appropriate for a guild to share spells amongst each other. That is my understanding of the purpose of the Arcane Order and their \"private library\".
Unfortunately, I don\'t think people will read into the license as much as you do :) (or even read it at all?), but I dearly hope we don\'t see sites popping up with all the combinations.
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aye, and that library section is VERY private for that reason, for the most part our councilors will distribute the knowledge amongst our members as we see fit
that is my personal fear, seeing all the spells listed on a site
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Originally posted by druke
that is my personal fear, seeing all the spells listed on a site
Public sites appearing with complete solutions and lists of every creature, every quest, every item, etc does have a bad effect on gaming, interaction between guilds and players, RP, and the whole idea behind this game.
The devs (and the community) have successfully tried to discourage this kind of thing and thus far players seem to have been very mature about it and not published things like quest solutions for MB.
Let\'s hope this attitude long continues :)
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yah but what if sites like crgaming.com give ps a visit, its kinda like americans and the buffalo
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Originally posted by druke
yah but what if sites like crgaming.com give ps a visit, its kinda like americans and the buffalo
Like I said, the PS License goes against all publishing of PS material, that means quest info, quest material, item info, spell info, etc. It will take the devs no more than a single email, maybe accompanied by a well written warning to the host of the site and it will be removed, otherwise the PS team has all the reason in the world to sue the site and 1) bring it down and 2) get some good money for development. So once they start flashing the license around and get the first couple of sites closed / get news on their sites that they didn\'t feel like putting up the solutions anyway, others will follow their example. This is exactly what EverQuest has been doing all along, and many other MMORPG makers as well. :)
As for the Arcane Order and their library, I doubt the \"secret stuff\" section is available to just anyone who wants to see it. As long as it\'s in a restricted area section, it is not public material, therefor it is not \"published\". I think you get the idea. :)
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Originally posted by Waylander
ARG!! I thought that CB was out when I first got a glance at the news
aye :D i was in the same situation :) they really do it on purpose i think :D
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Originally posted by Gronomist
Creating your own spells? No.
Guessing the combination to unknown spells based on theories on how your current spells are put together? Possibly.
Would this require thinking? Most likely.*
Jeez Grono! That\'s about the hundreth time you\'ve burst my bubble! Maybe not in CB, but in future releases? This would help in creating realism and authenticity, not all mages will use uber flame spin, or something as their ultimate destructive spell...
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lev do you realize how hard that would be to code
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Druke, I don\'t think coding is the problem. The problem is the balance of spell capabilities. You can\'t let people go around creating anything they want. Spells should be thoughtfully defined and balanced to make the game more exciting.
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there will always be sites that publish the list of spells and such its in human nature to rebel against a rule. and even if someone did publish them there is bound to be lvl restrictions on spells and even how to get the glyphs in the first place. example you reach well say lvl 5 a moderate low lvl you wont be able to get some ultra rare glyph that requires long tasks of traveling the whole playing world and there is bound to be lvl\'s of creature differences so a lvl 5 cant just run in and grab the glyph. what concerns me the most is if you have a glyph and us the spell what happens to that glyph out right must you do a quest all over just to recharge it? or is it memorized once you learn it like having it being writing down in a log book? im really not concerned with the fact if sites get the combos and post them cause chances are you wont be able to get the glyphs. im just concerned with how the use of the glyph has an effect on you and itself cause i dont feel like repeatively doing the same quest over and over to recharge for a single time.
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8o 8o
have you been reading any of this
8o 8o
*shoots himself*
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Originally posted by Druke:
lev do you realize how hard that would be to code
Hmm, well what if they used templates? Ie, 2 fire glyphs equal flame spell, but add it to a whirlwind glyph, you now have a flame spiral! Or I\'m just out of my mind and don\'t know how to explain what I mean...
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that\'d be 2 different spells, thats kinda how the system will work, cept, glyphs dont adapt spells, each combo is it\'s own unique spell
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Levski: it might be possible to *do*, but it would be difficult to do *well*, especially for very \"creative\" spells (for example, projecting an image of yourself that you can control, or other non-projectile-attack spells)
With regards to the publishing of spell combinations being illegal, I\'d say the legal theory behind it is quite debateable, at least to the point where j.random \"idea liberator\" would be quite willing to put up a site on geocities or some such.
What about telling other people spell combinations in-game? I would think that word-of-mouth spreading would be sanctioned.
I would favour a license that you had to agree to when you connected to the PS server that forbade cheating (of various types), distribution of quest/spell info outside the game etc., but I don\'t think that the current planeshift license is clear on these issues.
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Well I\'m planning to sell combos ingame for tria, as there arn\'t any restrictions on that, and it\'s perfectly rp.
(Expensive naturally) ;)
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Heh, the truly evil could mislead people into blowing themselves up... \"OH!...did I say rune of Chaos? I meant rune of Harmony.. soooo sorry about that. Don\'t worry, I\'m sure your eyebrows will grow back\"
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think you got that backwards
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Errr, the magic system is sounding more and more like Runecrap\'s magic system, but there you don\'t have to guess the combo\'s....how dissapointing... :( :(
Still, I have hopes that it\'ll be alot less cumbersome and lame-sounding than it does here.... :D
If so though, it makes me believe that it will be impractical to use magic...especially at n00b level...
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So..... wait a second. How can mage\'s weapons be implemented when using glyphs? Or they won\'t be?
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Levski, what do you mean by \"a mages weapons\"? I don\'t see the problem with glyphs...
I don\'t think that this will be the case, but I\'d kinda like to see it being impractical to use magic to any significant extent at the n00b level... this is really just an opinion, but it would be nice if magic were less mundane than it usually is in typical rpgs.
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Like a staff or a stave... like Gandalf uses in LOTR.
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Ah, you are wondering about how much hand space they will have.. well, I\'ve heard there will be a special window just for gylphs. Guess that means you don\'t hold them up when you cast spells. So you could be wield a weapon while casting a spell.. or working a craft, or climbing, etc. Magic isn\'t just about blasting enemies after all.
note: gandalf used a sword as well. He also used magic sparingly.
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what about writing the glyphes like runes on the staff?? Well, some time ago i realy spend to much time thinking about a magic system like that....
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first poster long time reader....
Does any one remember the old game Dungeon Master?
Sounds like the planeshift magic system will be similar, at least I hope so. If you haven\'t played the old rpg I suggest you take a look at it (theres even a java remake ;) ).
It shows a nice magic system where you made spells from gylphs, the first gylph was the spell power level. Then each gylph after was restricted to a certain level, and the more gylphs a spell has the harder it was to cast. You could guess the spell combinations because the manual listed general info about each gylph. However having said that if the more gylphs the harder the spell is to guess.
If the basic concepts of the planeshift magic system is similar and it sounds like it is - then the search for gylphs plus the lack of understanding about the gylphs and the ability to have many different types... well lets just say magic sounds like it will be fun.
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I\'m wondering just how practical it would be to be a \"mage-type\" character...I mean money wise... but then again, the Gandalf thing is true..
Still, it makes me think that only rich players would have acess to large amounts of runes...I mean, they would use mana too, so that would be a pretty tria to spend while treasure hunting....
I dont see how its really fair that newbies who use magic would have to spend so much as opposed to a warrior-type who only has to buy his \"weapons\" once.
I also question the quantity of the quests that are supposed to supply these \'Glyphs\' and the quantity they offer.....I would hope for a Thorian Gronk trading thing, but then again when do things go the way I expect them to.
Otherwise, the newbies will gobble up these quests early....making Glyphs expensive (since I\'m assuming player-driven economy)
Could someone clear this up for me?
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@ Harwen : Only speaking from what I\'ve heard from others, but as far as I can tell once you have a glyph you keep it forever.
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the above is true
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Oh, so that changes everything then, kick*ss! Now it makes more sense....I\'m amused by images of newbies blowing themselves up to kill a field mouse.... :D
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The spell system will be most likely when you pic you strenths at the char maker part you have to blance it out by have weekness
EX: 100,000 hp gone from monsters
1,000 hp gone from you/cant cast more then once a fight
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You know, it actually reminds me of an old game called \"Revenant\" - you found runes/glyphs(that you kept while casting) and certain combinations created certain spells; depending on their order and sequence.
Personally though, I would have liked to see a more... \"Evil Island\" approach to spells. Slightly modified, of course, but still very similar. In Evil Isles you were able to craft custom spells - where you basically had your \"template\", which determined the end result, (I think that would be too limiting for PS though) and then you could add rune/glyphs to it in order to boost it. IT was kept balanced by a \"complexity\" factor which I think could be easily replaced with the players\' \"skill level\" in that way of magic.
Example of how it worked in Evil Isles(not actual values):
Spell template: Fire Wall (complexity: 5)
Added effects: Duration Rune(last longer, complexity: 5), Effect Rune(do more damage, complexity: 7), Cost Rune(requires less mana, complexity: 15)
PS version:
Primary Glyph: Glyph of Burning (Red Way: 2)
Additional Glyphs: Glyph-of-take-forever-to-stop (Generic way: +5, Spell Duration: +30sec), Glyph of Fool\'s Challenge (Generic Way: -1, Mana Cost: +10%), Glyph of Ker-Zap (Azure Way: +1, adds electric damage).
// \"Generic Way\" being a change to the \"base\" way of the spell.
Whew, that\'s what I\'d \"have\" liked to see anyhow, sure was fun though =P. Anyhow, that\'s my 2(+15%) Tria to this topic =).
Edit: fixed invasion of those evil emoticons
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I admit the system sounds intriguing...
You find a glyph, you keep it, and completing quests give you a stockpile eventually right? Or have I confused myself?
So the glyphs are a non-depleted resource that is only needed once, sort of like a holocron in SWG. OT: Only thing is, nobody knows for sure if they lead to force-sensitive character...
anyway... so you think of witty ways to use these glyphs, and best your fellow adventurers in the art of spell-er making or casting? I\'m not sure..
This leaves me confused, once one has produce uber spell of doom vorpal +3, after many mishaps and exploding limbs perhaps... does it go into a spell book or something, or is the player required to remember the unfathomably difficifult metholodogy involved? If the latter is true, this is inconceivable evil, and amusing.
(never was one for the solely magic-type guy)
I hope the spell book is the case, any ideas as to the chosen method?
Also, a quick note: Has the idea changed... or am I the only one who remembers that there are NO levels in PS?
Forgive my ludicrously long post, I have gone well over my 2 tria, and owe the entire community 8 tria each, to be paid when I achieve the title: \'Richest in all the lands\'.
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this actually hasn\'t been asked yet
when a spell is successfully cast, it is added to your spellbook
you can then hotkey spells
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I\'m staring to like magic a whole lot more.....all these rumors sound great,...I\'d like to hear an official statement, but I doub\'t the devs would give away all their secrets upon the dawn of a new release :D
Either way, this magic is starting to make the ants in my pants do a mambo....
I just pray to Laanx that the combat system will be just as interesting :D
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Thanks Druke, I actually asked a question first, wheee. I hardly have time to get online, Uni keeps me busy, though I\'m halfway through 5 weeks of holidays, I\'ve been spending time with my girlfriend.
The spellbook was logical, so it makes sense.
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remember your friendly neiborhood magic guild =)
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Okay bringing the past post back to life since it\'s been nagging me since I saw this topic 5 months ago. [The search button helped but that took so long...]
There is a Super Famicom(SNES) game known as Rudras Treasure, it found it to have a very fun magic system ( I spent more time with the magic system then playing through the game since I couldn\'t read the story for the game at the time ). I guess it\'s similar to what people have posted thus far.
The only difference is that there was no limit to what you can or can\'t do, there was only a limit on how long it could be (SNES hardward limit probably). The spells which you come up with have varying sucess, strengths and costs, in this respect I mean that there can be a low level poorly made spell which takes twice as much mana as a very high level spell which was well optimized.
I greatly enjoyed being able to mindlessly key in random combinations and get effects. Maybe such an addition can be made to the system?
Possible implementation method:
1. Have a set of premade visual effects that can be combined in any way and possibly pallette shift capable.
2. Spell effect will be seperately calculated after a pattern is saved/completed this also applies for the cost.
In the game I reffered to all you could see when you initially created a spell was it\'s element. A failed spell will probably have an element of neutral, but you can\'t tell it\'s junk till you try to use it since there are actual neutral element spells in the game that can hurt rather badly.
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I must say the idea Of Runes/Glyphs to be annoying, magic comes from the blood. Possibly if you find a glyph then you can cast a spell with it, but for example the Runescape Rune magic system is to say the least... crap
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*hook (as a law sturent) can\'t stop wondering how many problems the PS license has actually solved already beforehand ...wow!*
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Alright! which one of you Power Hungry Moderators Edited my post??, Rune scape is parthetic, and, there is no laws against saying the name Runescape. Get a grip me man!, pphh, its not like if you say microsoft you\'ll get a bullet in the hea... *aarrgg!*