PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Monketh on July 20, 2004, 11:47:12 pm
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True, sadly. In the same way some college professors preach their liberal views, so some (if not many) Canadian teachers preach that les Etats-Unis is evil. Government leaders aren\'t much help either. Every nation has a bloody, patchy, history.
This mostly stems from the Canadian (and teenage) desire to be seen as different, independent. Canadians do not want to be viewed as just another state of the union, so to speak. But by being different, they are being the same as many, many, countries in Europe, showing that they aren\'t so different after all. This desire is foolish and immature, hating somebody just to be different is a nasty concept. I hope it doesn\'t take root in other places.
Don\'t get me wrong, Canada\'s all good and stuff, but this is just pathetic.
Note: I never said the US was angelic. It is neutral.
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In the words of FESFES \"lol just lol\"
I am Canadian, I see your government as a evil elite society of old farts but nothing against the majority of the citizens exception \"The White supremicists\" I HATE YOU!!
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I totally agree with you Monk. And I live in Canada!
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If i see a single person insult Canada, im goin straight to the mods to ahv u banned X( I\'m Canadian you see quite Patriotic too. I Have one thing to say though, Canada prides itself on togetherness, and refuses to recognize heroes. While the US recognizes outstanding individuals. Although have my own, *not nice* personal opinion of George Bush, To me he is the only reason the nice CRAZY but nice residents of the US are hated... I dont know what Canada would do without the US. BTW, Monketh, do you know much about Canada\'s history?
Oh, and congrats on your 1001th (should be 1001st) post!! In other words i Agree too
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Hmmmm.. I lived in Canada until last month, and I am still a Canadian citizen...
I would be among the 40%, definitely. :D
Mind you, I don\'t consider Americans as evil, I simply see your current government as evil. I don\'t even think of George Bush as evil though, he\'s too stupid to be evil.. ;) It\'s all the neo-conservatives! They\'re the evil ones! Hang them all, I say! :P
I don\'t hate the US government to be different; I hate them because they have not been especially good neighbours lately.
You have to understand, Monk, that the US government hasn\'t exactly gone out of its way to make Canadians happy with them recently. They have done a lot to make us UNhappy with them...
Here\'s a short list of what is making us unhappy (in order from most annoying to least annoying):
1) George Bush\'s shunning of Canadian dignitaries after we refused to help invade Iraq. (It really hurts the national pride when the leader of Trinidad and Tobago is invited to Bush\'s ranch before the Canadian PM.)
2) Softwood Lumber Dispute. Well, it is CALLED the North American FREE TRADE Agreement. I think there was a typo, because the American government seems to be calling it the \"Neighbours Are For Tariffs Agreement.\" Despite NAFTA, there is now an outrageous tariff on all Canadian softwood lumber going into the US. As a result, thousands of Canadians (mainly in BC) have lost their jobs.
3) Tampa Bay vs. Calgary in Stanley Cup Finals. (Maybe this should be at the top of the list.. ;) ) With the single act of letting a team from FLORIDA (Is there even any natural ice there??) beat a Canadian team, you have alienated everyone west of Ontario. Congratulations. :)
So, there you have it. Down with the neo-conservatives! Up with the American People! Ya!!! :D
EDIT: Flippy, dude, what is this about Canadians not recognizing heroes?! Have you ever heard of Terry Fox? Wayne Gretzky? Isaac Brock?
And togetherness? Do you mean togetherness as in conformity? Because if so, you are, er, a very American Canadian. Either that, or you have never been to Vancouver. Over half of the inhabitants of Vancouver were born outside of Canada, and it is one of the most diverse cities in the world. The people who live there have different opinions on lots of things, and rarely reach anything even close to a unanimous decision.
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YEAH TOAST!!!!!! lol nvm anyways i couldn\'t have put it better... it\'s the GOVERNEMENT.... get some real peeps in there to focus on issues not some redneck clowns!
Au contraire mon frere! (On the contrary my brother) Isaac brock was recognized... Gretsky... was recognized...Terry Fox was recognized 2 you can name 2 heroes recognized???!!! After all Confederation happened in 1867 when the BNA act was taken to the queen :P :P :P so Isaac wasnt really recognized by CANADA but the residents i.e the building of the Brock monument in Niagra Falls (There are 236 steps, counted \'em myself :D ) ...
Wait a second.... WTF am i going on about.... he was recognized, so thats 3 heroes....
STILL only 3 heroes! I have read stories, and i have seen many heroes go unrecognized
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Here is a example of why we as Canadians hold grudge against USA:
Afganhistan-
There was a irresponsible U.S pilot bomber who accidently mistaked a Canadian training ground as enemy and dropped a bomb killed 4 Canadian soliders and wounding alot more.
When the pilots got taken in court they should have been removed from the army and put in prison FOR KILLING 4 PEOPLE! Accident or not you took four peoples lives!! One of them came to grips with what he had done and apologized the other however wasn\'t sorry for what he did and listen to this
got a months deduction of 5 thousand dollars from his paycheck! He got the most leniant punishment possible, why you ask probally because the people he killed did not belong to the GREAT USA!!
BRB finding article!
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So here are a few reasons why the US (and Russia when it was a Super Power, are both wrong for what they did)
The US has constantly bombed one country or another for the last 2 or 3 decades. I\'m sorry I can\'t locate the actual refernce now, but it\'s not propoganda, it\'s recorded.
The US economy is a war time economy. When the US is not at war, the economy plumits (again, I\'m sorry that this sounds like I\'m pulling it out of my ass, but I have seen the refence material).
Anyway, I don\'t think evil is the appropriate term. And canadians, as far as I know (and I should know since I live here) are some of the most polite people in the entire world (not that I am, but in general). I think this is true statistically. Anyway, Canada never tried to be different, it just is Canada.
Oh and the US has screwed Canada many, many times, but the US is also the reason why Canada has not needed to keep a standing army for the last 200 years or so.
When Canada was developing the Avero Aero (an jet fighter that could reach the startosphere, I think) the US force Canada to scrap the project because they wanted to maintaine air superiority.
Should the US have done all those things? Maybe, maybe not... the point is, I think Canadians disaprove of the current gov\'t as opposed to the citizens of the US of A. and even though the US has been a pain in the ass, Canada still appreciates them and what they have done for us, I don\'t think you can say the opposite.
Anyway, just my opinions mixed with some facts. Have fun with it. :P
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Yah we have been screwed by the U.S countless times in the last two years that has cripled some parts of our economy and people, but you have to come to realize its their government and maybe those humans they turn into robots (military)
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Ty for using my famous words depth^^
well i lived in canada from the age of 5 months old untill i was 10 (now i live in LA California)
i never had nething against the US when i lived there but now that im older and i know whats going on with the world i think thats its right and wrong
Sadam- we shouldnt have gone after him for having \"weps of mass destuction\" we Should have gone after him cuz he killed More Than 1,000,000 of his own ppl!
Osama- hes a ****** its not nice to kill innocent ppl (my friends knew ppl that died) he deserves to be able to live forever SO he can be stuck in a small black room with nothing in it for the rest of time
i think if evryone was like Canada the world would be more peacefull, but there are some pests that Must be eliminated (like bush) ^^
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Ahahaha...politics...what a load of hogwash.
Its funny to hear most of your hilarious takes on the goverments in the world. And again, its funny to see few of you struggle to do so ;) Wow, this party seems to be missing something....hmmm, jeez this is entertaining.
Either way, I think that this forum should be locked, and soon . Because I feel this could get into a rather nasty flame session. I may be over-reacting, but I think that this falls under the posts about \"religion or racism\" thing, where it can get outta hand. ?(
Then again, I could be in dire need of a cup of coffe. :D
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I think it has stayed rather civilized so far... I mean, no one has actually attacked the American people as a whole, and no one has attacked Canadian people... I think this has been handled in a very civilized manner, and as long as it stays that way... :)
The US is Canada\'s neighbour, whether we like it or not, and we are deeply in their debt for keeping us safe for the last 100 years. I think Americans are a wonderful people, but I think that the current government is a pack of overgrown schoolyard bullies when it comes to getting what they want. There are better ways to solve things than throwing your weight around. 8)
In an RP context, I would call the Bush Administration \"un-Mirthful.\"
Most of the other people in America, however, are just like everybody else. They try to live their lives, be fairly successful, and enjoy themselves. Cheers to that! :D
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Might i remind you, of the War of 1812.... nvm my math skills suck!! that was 200 years ago 8o yes well they haven\'t really \"kept us safe\" we just have no enemies. But what is it they say?? \"Must must be risked in war.\"
I call the bush administration things that are bad. (I don\'t want to start backlash or peeps to persecute me:D
Edit: Not to mention, the US is a major trade partner, necessary for our economy.
Double edit:but I think that this falls under the posts about \"religion or racism\" thing, where it can get outta hand.
As we are not harassing peeps about their race, nor religion, this is neither, must it qualify for something it would be Nationalism :P
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I totally agree, the USA _are_ led by an irresponsible, lying, ruthless and in fact criminal junta. However, the USA has a history of being oppressive and also of protectionism. Their idea of \"free trade\" has, very consistently, always been to allow the US to do what they like and force everybody else to accept that while giving nothing in return. They are awfully quick in putting in tariffs to protect their economy while threatening others with even more tariffs if they even think of doing the same. Also, they use this system to get ppl. to bow to them if they want to do one of their economy-improving wars, mostly lying to their own ppl. and the rest of the world (I think Bush simply was too stupid to lie convincingly).
The same holds true for any international agreement they have signed. The USA only act according to them if if gives them an advantage. If they might loose, they simply ignore or cancel it. But if somebody else tries to do that, tey are first in line to \"ensure that all requirements are met\". Nice, very nice.
I don\'t even start about the US putting themselves above international law and jurisdiction, committing war crimes while accusing others of just that. This is bigoted at best.
I once thought high of the USA, but my feelings currently are at \"despise\" level, an all-time low. If it weren\'t for the US ppl, I\'d like to see the USA fall _really_ low so they can see what it\'s like to be on the other side.
I don\'t condone (war) crime by anybody, mind that. I also don\'t approve of war of any kind.
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The war in Iraq never shoulda happened. And you are right about their economy, they take advantage of every decent non-american person and country to get money. We teach \'em though, ever see \"talking to americans\". Well anyway other countries suffer so the US rolls in the dough, they are the schoolyard bully who beats up kids for lunch money.
This is aimed at the US governement, i was not meaning to offend any American peeps. In fact i find them very funny, and welcoming.
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*sigh*
Please allow me to explain the major reasons for going to Iraq.
1. Oil, yes, oil. If Iraq is secured, it stabilizes and secures the world\'s long-term oil-market.
2. Knock off a pesky thorn in the side of the US Gov\'t, who also happened to do just that to thousands of his citizens.
3. Eliminate potential hiding place for terrorists.
4. The BIG ONE: If you can land a democracy in the heart of the Middle-east, that is going to start a lot of change. It will bring good things. That is why WE MUST NOT LEAVE IRAQ. It is in the international community\'s best interest to provide as much support as they capable of. This is definitely worth a war.
I would vote for Kerry, to balance out Bush\'s effects, then for the next republican a term* after, to balance out Kerry\'s effects.
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Monketh, most of those are very valid points, and if those reasons had been openly given to the public before the invasion, I think that there would be a lot more support for the US right now. The fact is, there was a lot of misinformation about \"weapons of mass destruction\" and \"supporting terrorists.\" These reasons that were actually given for going to war later turned out to be incorrect, turning public opinion around the world largely against America.
If the US had stood before the United Nations, and demanded action against a brutal regime that commmitted major crimes against its own citizens, I very much doubt that the UN would have done nothing. It was obvious that the \"Oil-for-Food\" program wasn\'t working, so something definitely had to be done. I just think the better, truer reasons should have been given in the first place.
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First off, I think Bush made the right decisions for national security, and the war was nessesary even without those reasons you listed. The media has a way of screwing up the truth. Second, if Kerry is elected, were gonna be worse off here than we ever were.
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I\'m against the war, yes, but i know Iraq has weapons of mass destruction... SO DOES AMERICA!! what makes them so special?? But it\'s illegal for Bush to take over Iraq, the UN SHOULD intervene but what do they do, they just sit there and say \"You can\'t do this, you can\'t do that.\" George Bush knows the UN wont do anything so he\'s making plans for new states and American oil companies to steal the oil.
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Er, Flippy, Iraq doesn\'t have weapons of mass destruction... That\'s kind of the point behind this.. :P
And, I think you sound a bit like a conspiracy theorist, personally... But to each his own! :D
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Let me rephrase, Iraq HAD weapons of mass destruction...
AWWWW!!!! YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE SWEEEEET!!!????!!!
WEAPONS OF MASS CONSTRUCTION
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Uh... New states? Don\'t you mean \"New Nations\"?
American Oil Companies are involved, yes, just like other american companies are involved.
Are they going to loot Iraq of all it\'s resources? Not really. Given five years, the Iraqi Gov\'t might kick them out, to tell the truth.
edit:A weapon of mass construction would not be a weapon.
Edit2: Kerry is merely a tool of the democratic party, no need to worry too much. You know who I want for President?
Ahnold!
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I might SOUND like a conspiracy theorist but i assure you im just supicious of the Bush Administration :evil:
New nations yes of course.
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You and the rest of the world, pal. It\'s no excuse.
whemy_RAven even posted a link to a conspiracy generator, you don\'t even have to think now!
I gave the reasons, they\'re honest.
Edit: Not directly, just your politic opinions, of which I have a negative view. This is a political thread, after all.
But, since you don\'t pay attention to politics that much, that would explain why you don\'t know political threads degrade into flame-wars. Although I wasn\'t flaming. It is relatively easy to take offense when people attack your political position.
Am I a strong supporter of the war? Heck yeah! But because of the reasons I listed, not the wmd bull. We should\'ve gotten rid of that idiot the first time around.
I do object to certain ways in which the war is being waged, naturally. But not many soldiers are dying, and we don\'t have as many soldiers as we used to, anyway.
We spend the most, however, an average of $200,000 per man. This is the lowest KIA to wounded rate in an american war, ever.
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I\'m assuming you are a strong supporter of the war?? Perhaps a supporter of the Bush Administration??
Do you live in the US?
Because i\'ll be honest:
I\'m here... pretending i give a rat\'s ass about politics, shit happens i know that, and i also know we will have clowns who run countries, and i think George bush is a clown!! Honestly I dont give a shit!! Sry if i sounded, hostile.
EDIT: Are you flaming me?? Because if you are i\'m shocked 8o i always thought highly of you Monketh...
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Ok I have to agree that there are major issues with the US Government, but blaming everything on one person is ridicoulous. Bush this, Bush that, please. The US Government has had major issues long before Bush and will have them long after. You want to complain about the misinformation on the war, what about all the misinformation on the Vietnam War, was that Bush\'s fault. Don\'t get me wrong I don\'t like Bush, I personally think he rates IQ wise slightly above mental retardation and what ever brains he has left he tried to destroy with his youthful drug use, but I get tired of everyone blaming one person for all the problems. Ok enough of the Bush rant.
Now as far as America goes I am from America and yes we have lots of issues and unfortanatley it won\'t get any better. Our government has turned into who ever has the most $$$ wins. All you have to do is get enough lobbyists to support something and it will happen. Come on America is the nation where it is illegal to use or sell pot but the government is now taxing it. How can you tax the sale of something that is illegal to sell? As far as all this goes though alot of American people, I believe, would love to do something about this but how can we when we have so many uninformed voters voting where the money and advertising is?
Ok I am done because I don\'t even know if I am making sense anymore. ?( The current state of the United States government just gets me so pissed of because I believe we have, or had, a great country at one time that alot of money and politics has ruined.
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lol that\'s funny....
When i think about i agree with Icefalcon and Monketh, I base my life around one idiom, one rule i live by and that saying is \"Live by the sword, die by the sword.\" Saddams a bully, and he just got kicked by a bigger one, my saying appears to depict something.
LOL that pot thing is hilarious!!
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Kansas Drug Stamp (http://www.ksrevenue.org/perstaxtypesdrug.htm)
I know there is alot more but here is just one example of the tax on drug sales. :D
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wow boldstorm that is amazing.... LOL I still can\'t believe that\'s on the level. man.....
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oh well, better safe then sorry I guess, I guess I overreacted. :D
Heshopolis RULEZ!!
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Hey, I am canadian and british but I still love america. Sure they come in a little late to world war and then complain when nobody helps them with their war but hey, without them imagine what 22 hours would be like?? and then no talking to americans, what would life be without that. Not to mention the apology to americans which was hilarious. So you see, without America we would have no jokes :P
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@Monketh- Ok watch Demolition Man (Movie) In there it mentions Arnold (Terminator) was the last president of the USA :P Coincidence...governor for now but later who knows lol
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The problem is not the US. Its Canda and the rest of the world. The US has\'nt changed one bit in its goals or aims, the rest of the world (namely Canada, France, Germany, Russia, and several others) have. The US has always been and still is a country who seeks the best for the whole world. The other countries are only interested in whats best for them so they start hating the US because the US wants what will help the entire world and not just the US, or France, or Germany, or ect. The reason you people don\'t like the war in Iraq is not because it was an unjust war but because YOU where unjust before the war. Have you ever heard of the Oil for Food program (it should be called the oil for palaces program in reality)? Tha was an illegal program that was getting france germany russia and canada a lot of oil revenues from iraq. ILLEGALY!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is why you hate the war and that is why you hate Bush. Because he did what was best for the rest of the world and stopped your illegal activities in Iraq, while making the world a safer place. Now I\'m not trying to offend anyone here so don\'t let this rub you the worng way. P.S. for those of you who think Bush is a dutz he rates as one of the most inteligent people in the public today.
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Rated probally by his own country? That is your own opinion you base it only from that, so it proves to be worthless!
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Originally posted by Cryha
The problem is not the US. Its Canda and the rest of the world. The US has\'nt changed one bit in its goals or aims, the rest of the world (namely Canada, France, Germany, Russia, and several others) have. The US has always been and still is a country who seeks the best for the whole world.
What!?!?!?! Best for the world???????
Let me point out a couple of examples:
Most recently, Iraq. Yes, Saddam was a dictator. Yes, he had big prisons. But overall, Iraq was one of the more stable states in the Middle East. Now what is it? A stinkhole where lives are thrown out the window. Is that what\'s best for the world?
Some more examples. Do you know what the US has done in Latin American countries? \"To promote democracy and freedom!\" Bull!
But even worse than the US government are the governments which are mere puppets for the Americans, catering to every need the US has in the world of politics. These are the countries that supported the war in Iraq, mostly. And yes, my country of Bulgaria is in that group, which I despise.
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The problem is not the US. Its Canda and the rest of the world. The US has\'nt changed one bit in its goals or aims, the rest of the world (namely Canada, France, Germany, Russia, and several others) have. The US has always been and still is a country who seeks the best for the whole world. The other countries are only interested in whats best for them so they start hating the US because the US wants what will help the entire world and not just the US, or France, or Germany, or ect. The reason you people don\'t like the war in Iraq is not because it was an unjust war but because YOU where unjust before the war. Have you ever heard of the Oil for Food program (it should be called the oil for palaces program in reality)? Tha was an illegal program that was getting france germany russia and canada a lot of oil revenues from iraq. ILLEGALY!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is why you hate the war and that is why you hate Bush. Because he did what was best for the rest of the world and stopped your illegal activities in Iraq, while making the world a safer place. Now I\'m not trying to offend anyone here so don\'t let this rub you the worng way. P.S. for those of you who think Bush is a dutz he rates as one of the most inteligent people in the public today.
don\'t get me started. I never said Bush was a dutz. What\'s that? the countries who DON\'T go to war are wrong with the world?? most War is wrong, no two ways about it. And whats that? we had an illegal program to get revenues from Iraq? Well guess what else is illegal?? Bullying Iraq oil companies out and putting in new ones....
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(What else could the post of Cryha be if not a troll?)
Now just in case: how would breaking the Kyoto treaty be any good for the world when it is obvious that the US only want to keep up \"the american way of life (of living off others)\"?
How can you claim moral superiority or want the world to believe you are responsible if you actively encourage torture? Saddam certainly was a ruthless dictator, but how many are there, really? Lots! But after whom do the US go? After the ones that have oil. These who, if the \"oil for palaces\" program is pictured correctly, formerly sold oil to countries that were _not the US_. Do you honestly think that we believe in your good intentions or even in coincidence? I think not!
Furthermore, a war that isn\'t approved by the UN isn\'t OK, because that\'s what the UN was meant to ensure.
I\'d really like them to actively oppose the US for
1) Trying to decieve the UN and the world as a whole with really badly done fakes; this is an insult all by itself
2) self-righteously ignoring the UN and doing their war (for what any other nation would have had serious sanctions placed onto it)
3) scr*wing up completely and then demanding money to finance their fu*k up and the reconstruction that wouldn\'t have been necessary if the war would have not been started
4) still preaching \"we do gods will\" when, in fact, any major christian leader disagrees with this
5) continue to ignore any human values when it comes to ppl. not happening to be americans (what you said about \"dead soldiers\" only takes into account american soldiers, not iraqui soldiers, I presume.) Of course, because iraquis are not american and therefore one american life is worth _all_ iraqui lives (and these of any other human being in the world), in your eyes, isn\'t it?
Of course, Mr. Bush isn\'t the first one to abuse his powers, but he certainly is the most stupid one (i.e., unable to fool the world despite trying hard) :)
BTW, weapons of mass construction _would_ still be weapons, look at the genesis device of Star Trek ;)
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Of course they are weapons, but they construct stuff, CONstruct DEstruct get it?? 8o I\'m sorry, never watched Star Trek.
Like this picture, ARRR!!! it\'s me and my hook!
Don\'t i have wicked paint skills??!!
(http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v342/FlippySeal/ARR.jpg)
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Originally posted by Cryha
The problem is not the US. Its Canda and the rest of the world. The US has\'nt changed one bit in its goals or aims, the rest of the world (namely Canada, France, Germany, Russia, and several others) have. The US has always been and still is a country who seeks the best for the whole world. The other countries are only interested in whats best for them so they start hating the US because the US wants what will help the entire world and not just the US, or France, or Germany, or ect. The reason you people don\'t like the war in Iraq is not because it was an unjust war but because YOU where unjust before the war. Have you ever heard of the Oil for Food program (it should be called the oil for palaces program in reality)? Tha was an illegal program that was getting france germany russia and canada a lot of oil revenues from iraq. ILLEGALY!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is why you hate the war and that is why you hate Bush. Because he did what was best for the rest of the world and stopped your illegal activities in Iraq, while making the world a safer place. Now I\'m not trying to offend anyone here so don\'t let this rub you the worng way. P.S. for those of you who think Bush is a dutz he rates as one of the most inteligent people in the public today.
Gah! Ack!
Stop before you make it worse! This is the kind of attitude that gives us a bad rap! and rep!
*sighs*
*ahem*
THE USA PUTS ITSELF FIRST.
SO DOES EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.
Woah, look at this amaaaazing revelation.
Seytra: I already explained why we went to Iraq.
Kyoto treaty, I heard that banned air fresheners... I\'ve never actually looked at the document, but we\'re already losing manufacturing ground to many other countries. Tell the factory workers out of jobs if they think the kyoto treaty should be signed.
Everybody: I already explained why we\'re in Iraq, and why you should be too.
If only I could run for President... Fact is, this nation is screwed up, just like every other nation on earth. Considering we\'re the only super-power, it is much easier for you to blame us and make us look bad, making you look better. \"Team up on the big guy\", oh brother. If you want a better United States, come help make one! Start a socialist party or something. You\'re all semi-socialists anyway. :rolleyes:
It is so much easier to glaze over unethical decisions made by your leaders if you point to ones made by someone else\'s leaders. Sad.
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Well there are just so many of those unethical desicions Monketh :)
Fact is UN didn\'t support the war US went on with it. US is pretty much a rich snob who believes rules don\'t apply to him. Anyways, this thread should be shut down soon, I get this weird feeling we are gona start WW3 (US will be in it from the start this time!!! <--shocking I know).
Well goodnight people, and all countries have their faults. Sure, maybe most don\'t have as many as US does, but US has quite a few up points too. Sadly US had the chance to make the super powerdom unique by giving only good to the world and have as of yet screwed that up ( bleh all the others did).
Oh and look at Europe now, same currency easy to get around, be cool if that became one country \"England and Co.\" maybe :P.
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Well, perhaps Harwen was right about locking this thread... I was impressed by how civilized it was at first; try to keep it that way, please. :rolleyes:
Monk, all Kyoto actually does is makes countries promise to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by a certain percent within a set number of years. If a country chose to ban air fresheners... well, that would be a way of reducing emissions, but I don\'t know if it would be the most effective for the hassle. :D
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Originally posted by Waylander
Oh and look at Europe now, same currency easy to get around, be cool if that became one country \"England and Co.\" maybe :P.
No! The EU must not become one country! Some Hitler-type will take power and launch an invasion of the US!
...well, that\'s how the world governing body forms in my backstory, anyway. :P :rolleyes:
*hopes this lightened up the thread somewhat*
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Hey you guys wanna know a secret?!
The US put sadam in power so they could have a puppet in the Middle East who would oppose Iran. (This was back in the day, way, way back in the day, this isn\'t a conspiracy theory)
You want to know something else?!
Osama was trained by the CIA, you know why?! So that he could orgenize a resistance in Afgahnistan, so that the side that was being reinforced and supported by the russian\'s would lose.
Later (when the iron curtain fell) the US of A relized that the russian\'s supported the better side (Not Al-Queda).
Also about democracy... You know Israel IS in the middle east, and it IS a democracy, it\'s not encouraging Iran or Iraq to change. Egypt I think is also a democracy. You know something else? The states funds a large protion of the Israely millitary. You know why?!
Anyway, I\'m sorry I got trolled into this, but it doesn\'t change what I said above. The US (and Russia, when they were powerful enough) played at statemaking, nationmaking, whatever you want to call it. Britian, France and Germany played at it before. Does it make it right? No!
Just because the world was a rotten place doesn\'t mean we would like to remain that way. Sometimes wars are necessary, sometimes they resolve issues the only way they could have been resolved.
Has the war on Iraq changed anything? I don\'t think so, Israel still suffers acts of terrorism every day. Terrorists still live and hide in Iraq, and the rest of the world for that matter. In addition, they have a cause for revenge now. You see, when you stick your hand into a bee hive you will get stung. We\'ll see how the US will deal with it\'s bee stings, because one thing\'s for sure, they really did stir the shit when they went into Iraq. Not because the UN disaproves, or any other country, but simply because now the Muslim Middle East has a common enemy.
Anyway, just my two cents, again with a small dash of facts.
To the people of the US of A, I do understand that one should stand for ones country. But one should also be able to understand when named country has bitten off more than it could chew. All I have to say is this, I\'ve lived in (Israel) a country, where getting on a bus was risking your life, because a suicide bomber could be on it. I\'ve lived in a country where going to the mall was risking your life because someone might run in with a gun and shoot you down. These weren\'t some remote possibilities, they happened almost daily. Israel was not oppressed by terror, we\'ll see how the US fairs.
Oh and one last thing, if you fight a war with terrorists, you will lose. Unless you yourself will resort to terror. Think about why that\'s true.
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What do you expect. That the world is gona be fixed after only a year? These things take time but the world will be a better place thanks the the US (once again the US is making the world a better place) and to President Bush. People said the same thing about WW2 back when it was going on that your saying about Iraq now. People said that President Reagan was a failure and an idiot just like people are saying Bush is now. Yet look at what has happened. The people who ;led the nation during WW2 are hailed as heroes around the world, Reagan is solely responsible for stoping communism, and some day Bush will be hailed as the one man who had the guts to stand up to terror. The only way to defeate terror is to fight it and to bring all your guns blazing. We tried peace talks for 10 years. through out the decade of the ninties we tried to talk sence to the terrorist. It did\'nt work. Things are different in Iraq today. The people are happy now. I\'ve talked to Soldiers in Iraq, as well as listened to them on the radio. They will tell you that all over Iraq people when they see them in the streets smile and run out to thank them for saving their country. They will tell you of being given flowers by the Iraqi people. They will tell you the story of watching the Iraqi\'s tear down Saddams statues, and shout with joy while crowds cheer while watching. Now try to tell me that things are\'nt different. We have never taken a drop of oil out of Iraq nor have any of our Oil companies made any money off Iraq. The oil that was drilled during the ocupation was sold and the money given to the Iraq govnerment which is now in power (and might I add was created by the Iraqi\'s, not the US). If we had wanted oil we could have found a much cheaper way and a way that offered a lot less loss of life to get it. Anyone ever heard of Alaska? There is more oil there than many other places in the world and great masses of it have yet to be found. Give me one thing the UN has permanently resolved in its inglorious life. If there had been a UN during WW2 what do you think woulda happened? I\'ll tell you what woulda happened. Hitler woulda had hiw country in one of the seats it holds now, then he woulda countiualy vetoed any atempt to start a war with him till he had taken over all of europe and then he woulda been strong enough to finish his dream of taking over the world. We should thank God every day that there was\'nt a UN back them because this world would be a horrible place if there had been. We have permanantly resolved the problem of weapons in Iraq (which by the way they have found). There is no more evil Saddam, there is no more chemical weapons program, there is freedom and peace. How can you people say the war was bad when it was a war for justice and liberty. I have heard people say that the Iraqi\'s don\'t want freedom. I\'m not saying you think this because I don\'t know but I have hard some say that. I don\'t understand how anyone can even think of thinking that. The number one wish of every human heart is freedom and justice. Thats what we brought to Iraq. Some of you com[plain about President Bush welcoming dignitaries from other countries and not from Canada. Does\'nt it make sence to welcome those who help us before those of thumbed there nose at our desire to help the world become a better place? The war was just, President Bush did the best job anyone could do, and you are safer because of it.
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You know I saw this one over on the forums for my SWG PA, my responce here is the same one I gave them
only our government canada, only our government
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bah Canada\'s teens are sad cuz me (a teen) moved to the us, so they think the us is evil ^^
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the only way that would affect them is knowing that we would accept someone like you...
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Originally posted by tygerwilde
the only way that would affect them is knowing that we would accept someone like you...
I didn\'t do it! Honest! Ya gotta help me get rid of this guy. :P I\'m thinkin\' Cuba, how about you? :] :P
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Originally posted by Monketh
Originally posted by tygerwilde
the only way that would affect them is knowing that we would accept someone like you...
I didn\'t do it! Honest! Ya gotta help me get rid of this guy. :P I\'m thinkin\' Cuba, how about you? :] :P
dont get rid of me i luv u all :D
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@Cryha : lol just lol, evil Saddam, happyness and joy on tv well lets see u see US tv and US aren\'t gona put much stuff that makes them look bad on there now are they...
WW2 it was cool that you came in, 2 years late was not cool, but then you make it seem as if you did everything lol, don\'t talk about WW2 with me, I dislike US more than Germany when it comes to WW2.
President bush said something along the lines of this \"War is the last thing we want, but we rather that than do nothing\" so War is the last thing they want, but they want to do nothing less than that and so out of the two things that he mentioned War is the thing he wants the most. Bush will never be hailed as a great man, maybe a great grade school student :P
@Monketh : hehe Eu will unite and make the best sausages ever!!!
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hehe, not cuba, they\'ve got enough problems, maybe mexico, and don\'t send him anything to drink either, he needs a good dose of mexican water >=D
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Originally posted by Waylander
@Cryha : lol just lol, evil Saddam, happyness and joy on tv well lets see u see US tv and US aren\'t gona put much stuff that makes them look bad on there now are they...
WW2 it was cool that you came in, 2 years late was not cool, but then you make it seem as if you did everything lol, don\'t talk about WW2 with me, I dislike US more than Germany when it comes to WW2.
President bush said something along the lines of this \"War is the last thing we want, but we rather that than do nothing\" so War is the last thing they want, but they want to do nothing less than that and so out of the two things that he mentioned War is the thing he wants the most. Bush will never be hailed as a great man, maybe a great grade school student :P
Yes, they are. That\'s what gets ratings, that\'s how they get paid.
If it wasn\'t for us, Hitler\'s Nazi-germany would still be in power today. It was the critical push you guys needed to turn the tide. Don\'t lie and say that isn\'t true. The German people were rallied against one group of already-persecuted individuals. Unlike Islamist fanatics, the Jews weren\'t actually making themselves a target.
@all: Bush can not be held accountable for actions of earlier administrations, including giving the afghanistani forces weapons.
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I\'m getting so sick of seeing people think the US did everything in WW2!!! Ok first hitler wouldn\'t be in power to this day. One he\'d be DEAD! Regardless of who killed who, It\'s called OLD AGE. And two, the 3 countries making the largest contributions in WW2 are Canada, the US, and Britain. With many other forces along the way, underground French forces, the Australians. You say without the US Hitler would still be in power?
Without the British they would still be in power, without the French they would still be in power, without the Australians they\'d still be in power, and without the Canadians they\'d still be in power.
So who fought better??? They fought the same. As in EQUAL. Something some Americans seem to have forgotten.
EDIT: It\'s not Afghanistani... its Afghani
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Flippy, no offense but you are leaving out Russia, the Russians helped a lot in that war, and it was only because the USA came into the war and because the Germans betrayed the Russians that the war was won, I\'m pretty sure the USA and England and Canada came down from one side and the Russians came in from the other, so everyone gets credit. Well I think thats what happened... hehe
Yes Hitler would have been dead but what about the affects he would have left on our societies, he could have screwed things up so bad or possibly have left an even crazier fanatic in charge after his death.
Now like someone else said, \"no country is without its faults\", so really everyone in here should back off, I\'m from Canada and I know our country is not perfect, the USA isn\'t perfect, all of Europe isn\'t perfect, Russia isn\'t perfect, I\'m sure you get my point. You can find many faults in each countries government, but you know what, the government is made up of only so many people that the majority voted for, what about the people who lost, they don\'t share the same view yet they get screwed, or the people who may agree with one party over the other just on certain points. NO ones ever going to get an absolutely perfect country because not everyone\'s views will be reflected. So really to say that Bush is so good because he\'s doing this and that, that is your opinion, what about the opinions of others, how many people protested that war? How many people couldn\'t make it to the protest? How many agreed with it? And don\'t go out and show me some big fancy survey because those depend on how many people took it, hell it could say 80% of Americans are for the war and maybe only 2 million took it, a little unrealistic but oh well you get my point, People are impressed by fancy surveys and big numbers.
Now I think I have gone off track but oh well, everyone\'s criticizing governments and I wanted to put my two cents in.
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Bah Monketh, the war may not have been a lose but yeah the chances of it were high if USA didn\'t come in but, what I was saying is that USA was not the largest contributor to the war and had US been in from the start a lot of British, Russian, Jewish, German, hell Europian lives would not have been lost. And then US has the nerve to make film upon film about how they did everything.
And I don\'t think Hitler (or his successor) would be in power, I think England would have held :P GO ENGLAND!!!
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Originally posted by Monketh
If it wasn\'t for us, Hitler\'s Nazi-germany would still be in power today. It was the critical push you guys needed to turn the tide. Don\'t lie and say that isn\'t true. The German people were rallied against one group of already-persecuted individuals. Unlike Islamist fanatics, the Jews weren\'t actually making themselves a target.
I disagree with you here. Who is responsible for the fall of Nazi Germany? The USA? Canada? Are you joking? The two most important factors in the fall of Nazi Germany (country wise) were Germany istelf and Russia.
Who actually conquered the Nazi capital of Berlin? The Russians. How many millions of Nazi German soldiers died at the hands of the Americans? Not hundreds of thousands, maybe at most tens of thousands. But at the hands of the Russians? Much more! Another quirky little fact. The total mobilized force of the Soviet Union was 25,000,000 men during WW2!
And the Germans themselves were responsible for the fall of Nazi Germany. First off, it\'s their fault, and their fault only that Hitler became leader of Germany. Second off, while Hitler possesed a miraculous leading capability, he severly lacked in the strategical department. The Germans themselves should have noticed that...
Monketh, most of Nazi Germany\'s forces were situated on the Eastern Front with Russia. And yet the Soviet Union was still able to drive them back and capture Berlin.
Edit: @Waylander: The only reason that England held was because Hitler made a critical mistake in bombing civilian targets instead of targets with significance to the English War effort.
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Yeah but shh, and had the british not drawn Nazi air forces away from Russia the war would have been a loss, also Africa was all English and Italy mostly English along with having England on the Asian front too (getting asses kicked but heh). I would say 1)Russia 2)England 3)Germany
And Germany did more than that, there were those helping allies and even one of Hitlers trusted people went over to England to warn them...of what I can\'t remember.
Most of the countries got lucky with Hitlers incompetence. Oh and English people were thought to be almost equals by Hitler so HA! England rules everybody says so :P
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Flippy, no offense but you are leaving out Russia, the Russians helped a lot in that war, and it was only because the USA came into the war and because the Germans betrayed the Russians that the war was won, I\'m pretty sure the USA and England and Canada came down from one side and the Russians came in from the other, so everyone gets credit. Well I think thats what happened... hehe
Of course i cant name all the forces who help, THERE WERE MANY!! Offense?? None taken why should that offend me? :)
EDIT: you guys say Russia.... Waylander you make a list!???!!!! My point is that millions of men united to defeat a common enemy, they each contributed. You can\'t pinpoint which country did most. There are simply too many factors. Wow! The russians killed most Germans! Other countries contributed equipment, fought key battles.
But it\'s not about that!! Tha fact is WW2 was the most incredible thing, the men that united to do such a thing. They\'ll never do it again.
In the words of a Russian Sergeant after the war in Europe: \"I had tea with an American, although i met him in ten minutes, i felt he was fighting with me all the way.\"
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Originally posted by FlippySeal
I\'m getting so sick of seeing people think the US did everything in WW2!!! Ok first hitler wouldn\'t be in power to this day. One he\'d be DEAD! Regardless of who killed who, It\'s called OLD AGE. And two, the 3 countries making the largest contributions in WW2 are Canada, the US, and Britain. With many other forces along the way, underground French forces, the Australians. You say without the US Hitler would still be in power?
Without the British they would still be in power, without the French they would still be in power, without the Australians they\'d still be in power, and without the Canadians they\'d still be in power.
So who fought better??? They fought the same. As in EQUAL. Something some Americans seem to have forgotten.
EDIT: It\'s not Afghanistani... its Afghani
No the US was the direct force that caused the winning of the war you know why? Because the US had more money, more men, more arms, and better weapons. Who created the B-17? Who created the B-29? Who created the P-52? Who lost more men than any other country and probably more than all countries combined? I\'ll give the British credit they where a driving force as well and without them our job would have been much more dificult because we would\'nt have had A: the support they gave us and B: A base close to europe, but to say that the French had much to do with the war is just wrong. Good night all the french did was see a couple of tanks rolling towards their border and said WEE WEE WE SURENDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Most of the French Underground was only interested in getting people out of france not actualy fighting the Germans. It is true that the Rissians did some fighting but the only reason they survived was because the Anglo-American force attacked on D-Day and drew the attention away from the Russians. To say that the American Media is only gona show good stuff for America is crazy. First and foremost your not aquanted with the American Media like I am. The only thing The Media will broadcasts is stuff that will hurt President Bush because The Media is full of hate fill, lieing Liberals. Thankfuly we have Fox News, Paul Harvey, and Rush Limbaugh, the only major figures in media that actualy speak the truth. The media covers the 5% of Iraq that is against the war (the Saddam eliteists that worked for him and got special priveleges) like its the 95% that love the US and conver the 95% like its the 5%. Bush will be hailed as a great as will those who stood behind him while the Liberals like Bill Clinton and Al Gore and John Kerry will be hailed as the greatest scourge of the 21st century if they\'re remembered at all.
Hitler was not an incompetent person. He was actualy a brilliant man. Now don\'t get me wrong I hate him as much as the next but he was still brilliant. The problem with him was he contracted a disease that messed up his head which caused him to use bad strategy which made germany lose the war. It is true that had he not contracted that disease he would have probably won the war.
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Good night all the french did was see a couple of tanks rolling towards their border and said WEE WEE WE SURENDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You make no sense! That never happened! And as for, Americans having better equipment, you can have gun, i can have a 12th century sword and kill you.
More men, big whoop! Sir Arhtur Wellesley (British!) Defeated 80,000 mahratta confederation infantrymen with a force of 5,000
EDIT: you guys say Russia.... Waylander you make a list!???!!!! My point is that millions of men united to defeat a common enemy, they each contributed. You can\'t pinpoint which country did most. There are simply too many factors. Wow! The russians killed most Germans! Other countries contributed equipment, fought key battles.
But it\'s not about that!! Tha fact is WW2 was the most incredible thing, the men that united to do such a thing. They\'ll never do it again.
In the words of a Russian Sergeant after the war in Europe: \"I had tea with an American, although i met him in ten minutes, i felt he was fighting with me all the way.\"
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Cryha I didn\'t even read half your post and I think you are an idiot :) France doing nothing!!! Go away, just just go away.
But you are right about Hitler still he was the one that got the disease (overworked himself to hell) and that was bad strategic planning...
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Waylander you\'re absolutely right about that, i am SICKENED!! the forces that fought in WW2 were called allies. ALLIES!! Now Jackasses like some peeps here are arguing over who did more and trying to deface each other acheivements! Since when do allies do that!?
I think i migh tip off a mod soon...
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What did the french government do then? give me 5 things the french government did to help in the war effort other than ask for help. Fact is they did\'nt do much.
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Cryha, I am confused what part of \"go away\" don\'t you understand. You see you are putting down a nation that was the early into the war and suffered greatly in other words you are ... come to think of it there is nothing as bad as that. So just go away, don\'t talk to me and I would ask that you atleast not post opinions like this on the forums.
Oh and congratz you are the first person that I think this lowly of :)
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Actually, Cryha, Russia had the most casualties in WW2. Lack of weapons.
The three key players were Russia, Britain and USA. Take away any one of those and Hitler had a pretty good chance of winning.
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No I don\'t have to go away and I will not go away because this is a free country. I am not putting France down but I gave you an opportunity to tell me what they did and you obviously could\'nt so apparently you are making statments which you can\'t back up. I don\'t dislike the French but giving them credit as being just as big a factor in the war as the US was is not correct. Incase you did\'nt know the French aided the US dusing the Revolutionary war and for that we will alway\'s owe them just as they will owe us for saving them in WW2. One of the greatest Revolutionary war heroes (aside for George Washington) Was General Lafayette a frenchman. I don\'t appreciate being called an idiot nor do I appreciate being acused of thinking lowly of the French.
Edit: And as the French will owe the English and rest of the allies that helped take back france
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Ah Monketh don\'t give him reason to post again, my eyes won\'t be able to take it.
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In War there are no winners just loosers. People die, that is the bottom line. It doesn\'t matter what country you are from where your loyalities lie people died. As Esienhower said: It\'s easy to order a million people into battle and possibly their death, it\'s very hard to see how that effects a single person.
Families were torn apart, people lived in fear. In the end the world managed to try to rebuild from it and try to live with each other. That is what binds use together, not what this country did or that country did. It\'s the fact that we want to live in peace. The fact is that we all live together on this world and once you start with \'My country is better then yours\' or \'You owe us for this, you should be thankful for us for that\' you start down the road to destruction.
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You know one of the only reasons that war was won was on a hell of a lot of luck on D-Day and yes sure that helped a lot with the Russians but they were do to kick Germany\'s ass sooner or later and sorry to tell you but your comment on who lost the most men is completely wrong. America, if anything, had one of the lowest death rates in all of the countries that were involved in that war, and hell the only reasons they got into that war was because some of the ships that the Americans sent (only to hold wounded soldiers) were sunk and because Germany sent a letter to Mexico, I think it was Mexico, stating that they would help Mexico take back land from the Americans. So if it wasn\'t for those things and a few others then they would never have even joined the war.
You know probably no one will get this right unless they were there at the time and even then they would\'ve had to be there at every big and small decision, every battle, so forth. Everyone of us has had a different teaching on this war and none of us have all the facts so why is this even going? For pride? You have your views, I have mine. But really, a lot of the stuff we all seem to agree on so don\'t say that America did all this and all that because they obviously didn\'t. Any country that helped stop the war is going to glorify what they did.
Edit. Well hell I feel like an idiot posting this after Acraig did but I was writing it at the same time he was...
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What did the french government do then? give me 5 things the french government did to help in the war effort other than ask for help. Fact is they did\'nt do much.
I never said french GOVERNMENT, i said french UNDERGROUND FORCES, big difference!!
Thats what i mean! Im not talking about winners or losers though, im talking about how no one should take credit for the entire thing! It isn\'t right. And whoever does take credit should be ashamed of themselves!
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Hmm, you are right as usual Acraig...must be because you live in Canada :P jk.
Good timing too Acraig, this was about to become a flame war...
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Cryha is just speaking nonsense! I can\'t comprehend where he\'s coming from on his points. Try reading a book Cryha, I recommend, \"Our Bravest and Our Best\" you might not like it, it\'s Canadian and focuses on acts of bravery by Canadian soldiers, although a pessimistic one such as yourself wouldn\'t agree with it.
I also believe earlier, you said the US had more men... welll the other countries had skill, ever hear of Billy Bishop? :D
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Half Pint you posted this:
And togetherness? Do you mean togetherness as in conformity? Because if so, you are, er, a very American Canadian. Either that, or you have never been to Vancouver. Over half of the inhabitants of Vancouver were born outside of Canada, and it is one of the most diverse cities in the world. The people who live there have different opinions on lots of things, and rarely reach anything even close to a unanimous decision.
When i say togetherness, maybe that was the wrong word... I mean non-conflictive, and agreeable, I\'m all for diversity, which is a stereotypical (And sadly somewhat sadly true) view of America as the \"melting pot\".
EDIT: I apologize i realize this should have been edited to the above post, id like to apologize to the mods.
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If I don\'t make sence its because your heads are to full of Liberal lies to comprehend anything that harms your cause. I feel that this topic is splitting this board and so I\'ll probably not come back to this topic if only because I\'m gona try to keep some peace.
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Originally posted by Cryha
If I don\'t make sence its because your heads are to full of Liberal lies to comprehend anything that harms your cause. I feel that this topic is splitting this board and so I\'ll probably not come back to this topic if only because I\'m gona try to keep some peace.
Pot, can I introduce you to Kettle?
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OMG don\'t bring Rush Limbaugh into this!! He has nothing to do with this entire conversation. I respect Rush as one of the most perceptive commentators around right now, but he has absolutely NOTHING to do with the conversation. By bringing his admittedly volitile name into this conversation, you\'ve further polarized your audience and caused many to completely stop listening to you (if they already hadn\'t). Rush Limbaugh has little to say about this subject except that the US was a big player in the war.
Note: I\'ve been following this thread for some time with some measure of amusement. With this tactical blunder and unfortunate use of a controversial name that I happen to respect, I had to step forward and say something.
Edit: Limbaugh\'s name seems to have been edited out of the previous comment while I was typing this. Please fogive, eh?
Edit2: Cryha, I\'m a pretty hard-core conservative too, but what you\'re doing is not helping your cause at all. Fanaticism and hypocracy don\'t mix well. A reasoned discussion would be nice.
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Rush Limbaugh has just as balanced a perspective as the \"liberal media\". It\'s all people with very strong , almost \"traditional\" viewpoints either way whether you\'re a Democrat or a Republican.
What Americans see as the actions of their government (whether they agree or disagree) other people in other nations will inevitably relate that to the people as a whole. I know I can create a negative stereotype of an American in my mind, and in some ways it matches how their government is percieved by the liberal media.
But anyone who thinks that this stereotype represents \"the typical American\" misses out on several hundred million unique people, each with their own strenghts, weaknesses, opinions, beliefs... In Canada it\'s very easy to say that we \"hate\" America, but I don\'t think very many of us know what that means, and if we did, we\'d probably say it a lot less.
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I have to admit that I\'m an American, but I really don\'t think of myself as such. I think of myself as a person in a world of people, separate from the governing systems over them. I think I can honestly say that there isn\'t any nationality I feel any dislike or superiority towards. That doesn\'t mean I don\'t make Canada jokes... They\'re kinda like Iowa jokes, only imported. ;)
dfryer: You are the cool voice of reason in this conversation. Thank you for that.
Edit: Just to say, I think governments in general stink. I think they should just keep out of my life as much as possible. About the only use I have for the government is public protection from invasion and defense of very very basic rights.
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Originally posted by Cryha
No I don\'t have to go away and I will not go away because this is a free country.
Erm..... World Wide Web....
Cryha, could you please seperate your posts into smaller paragraphs? It would ease the strain on our eyes :).
@ Acraig: Isn\'t it funny how the people that work to better the lives of others always turn out to be the most sensible?
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OMG don\'t bring Rush Limbaugh into this!!
Cyrandir said this, i dont know Rush Limbaugh, im assuming you guys (Namely Cryha) are wrapped up in Americanism. Well Im a laid back kinda person and dont care, i also give people fair chances, which is why i treat people the same.
Anyways, why i dont care for this anymore is strictly because I am Canadian and don\'t give a rat\'s ass!
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Please allow me to point out that the survey was done on \"teens\". That is to say, people of ages between and including 13-19. These are a particulary uninformed and problematic group, with failures to properly perceive reality, and the effects that come with it. They proclaim themselves anarchists without knowing the meaning of the word, or thinking about its effects. Also note that 60% of those surveyed did not view the USA as \'evil\'.
Remember, don\'t judge people by their governments. We have a very vocal group of Democrats here who lost by a thread last time, and they certainly didn\'t want to go to Iraq, etc...
Bah, why can\'t we return to the days of economic conservatives who were social moderates?
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Hm, \"economically conservative\" and \"socially moderate\" are very loaded terms IMO, i.e. they represent not just the principles of conservativism/moderation, but the associated policies and ideas of groups who support them.
With regards to judging people by their government, in many cases (especially, but not limited to authoritarian regimes) the actions of the government are contrary to the wishes and/or interests of the people. On the other hand, government does not exist in a vacuum, so there has to be *some* group of people (however small) who are instrumental in making those decisions. Some are very aware of the implications; others make decisions based on the truth as they know it. Can we condemn people who in all honesty believe they are acting in the best interests of the people they are responsible for? What about people who think that things aren\'t right but do nothing except confer among like-minded people and agree that \"things could be done better\"? The only people who I can really label as \"bad\" are people who knowingly acted in their own self interest to the detriment of others.
I think we all sometimes make decisions that fit us into that last category.
Now that I\'m done philosophizing, I\'ll get back to criticism, where I belong :)
They proclaim themselves anarchists without knowing the meaning of the word
They meaning all teens? :P It could be said that much of the population is \"uninformed and problematic\", or you could categorize older people as \"self satisfied and inflexible\". In many cases, you wouldn\'t be right about the majority of the people you\'re categorizing. Still, young people in general have a tendency towards making decisions and changing opinions very rapidly, and that probably leads to the knee-jerk \"hatred\" of America.
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Originally posted by Cryha
No the US was the direct force that caused the winning of the war you know why? Because the US had more money, more men, more arms, and better weapons. Who created the B-17? Who created the B-29? Who created the P-52? Who lost more men than any other country and probably more than all countries combined?
I don\'t want to disregard what US did in WW2, but this is complete bullshit. The main battle was on eastern front between Germany and Soviet union. Did US loose several millions of people ? I don\'t really think so.
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Originally posted by tangerine
Originally posted by Cryha
No the US was the direct force that caused the winning of the war you know why? Because the US had more money, more men, more arms, and better weapons. Who created the B-17? Who created the B-29? Who created the P-52? Who lost more men than any other country and probably more than all countries combined?
I don\'t want to disregard what US did in WW2, but this is complete bullshit. The main battle was on eastern front between Germany and Soviet union. Did US loose several millions of people ? I don\'t really think so.
Absolutely. The Soviets lost (last I heard) nearly 20 million people in the war - more civilians than soldiers. The battles in the eastern front (especially the battle in Stalingrad and the massive tank/artillery battle at Kursk) literally decimated the German ranks and broke the heavy Panzer divisions.
BTW, here\'s one of many many references you posters can use to back up your claims regarding the Second World War.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ww2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ww2)
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Cool site Kbilik.
And I believe Monketh is describing the majority ;)
Oh and go Tangerine W00T
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They proclaim themselves anarchists without knowing the meaning of the word
True.
But i question whether the majority of the population know the meaning?
People say it is Anti-Christ...
WRONG!! It\'s anti-government just ask the very united punk scene.
P.S. It\'s takenme 30 minutes to write this, reason being im scratching my ear canal with a Q-Tip. OMFG, it feels better than an orgasm!
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To the former part of your post:
We never said it was \"Anti-christ\". We\'re not idiots.
To the latter part: I won\'t even respond to that. You\'re?...
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Nobody here did but I believe he is saying that others do :). And maybe your not an idiot but....there are those that are, they usualy call themselves gods :P
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[stupidity]
teens also represent tomorrows country so if 40% think the usa is \"evil\" well than i guess we wont be best friends with the states for some time.... not that we are now, where just a dumping ground and a military test site... and free lumber.... and a home for that 1 mile titon sub that has nuclear weapons that tipped my boat up the coast and i learnt that the canadian goverment ignores because they cant exactly do anything about it.....
Half_Pint comes from vancouver too?> lets meet somewhere and go beat up some usa tourists shall we?
[/stupidity]
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...that wasn\'t stupidity, that was funny :P
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Originally posted by Cryha
What did the french government do then? give me 5 things the french government did to help in the war effort other than ask for help. Fact is they did\'nt do much.
You will never gain respect from me because you have not even bothered researching! The French might have gotten taken down early but they still had their underground movements which in the END, helped open D-Day up for the allies...that might not be 5 things but that sure the hell was enough considering it took the pressure off the Soviets, and in the end they pretty much took the war :P
@WW2 Comment
They entered the War during the end only when they were brought in by the bombing of Pearl Harbor! They wanted nothing to do with it until then, their efforts were VERY little compared to the other countries who sacrificed so much through the years! In the end they managed to take so much glory from it and you would surprised how many people believe it was the USA who beat Germany when really they just put the cherry on the sundae!
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Originally posted by DepthBlade
@WW2 Comment
They entered the War during the end only when they were brought in by the bombing of Pearl Harbor! They wanted nothing to do with it until then, their efforts were VERY little compared to the other countries who sacrificed so much through the years! In the end they managed to take so much glory from it and you would surprised how many people believe it was the USA who beat Germany when really they just put the cherry on the sundae!
Actually, the main reason why the US didn\'t enter earlier was because public opinion was way against it. It took the disaster of pearl harbor to get the public for the war- but of course the militarty was already building up in anticipation. Oh, and there\'s the whole thing about the Japaneese sending a decloration of war 2 weeks before they attacked, but for some reason it never was received....
Of course if anyone knew about the holocaust, everything would have been different.
Back on the main topic, I live just near the canadian border, and considering how many 19 and 20 year olds are crossing the border to drink, I think the canadians are seeing us more as aroggant drunkards :P
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Wow, this started out as a mature and interesting discussion about the views on nationality and governments, the stooped into a petty mud-slinging contest about who won WW2...
Anyway, judging people due to the actions of their government is just plain silly, as an example I can take a recent incident where the leader of one of the top political parties in Norway went out and said that Islam was an evil religion, does that represent my views? No, it pisses me off that somebody that is supposed to represent my opinions can say something like that.
It is also silly to say that there is too much focus on the US, don\'t you think is Russia would do the same, there would be a lot of fuzz around it? Also, when you are discussing a topic like this on the internet, you are bound to end up getting the opinion of a lot of Americans, and a mix of other nationalities, this is also a reason why it is a bad idea to discuss it on something as inpersonal and public as a discussion forum.
Also, the person that named \"Jews\" in a sequence of nationalities, all I have to say is \"wow\"...
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...Public opinion way against joining war...and people wanting nothing to do with the war...uh...well besides the choice of words, what is the difference?
And Depthblade is now on my cool list :)
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ok guys i have the solution to your problem
.=drum role
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shut up.
personaly usa and canada are brothers (or brother and sister or sisters ect. ect.) so stop buckering before we get a family feud. we dont want to get mother england in on this!
canada. a vital placement in the crafting of the usa. you saved many of our slaves and so you know. most white supremesists are downed upon.dont hate the country or the people.hate the guy that does the deed.
usa. i understand my country (usa) is a very loud and obnoxious country. but we have also helped to shape the world. without the united states man would not fly. war would still be very barbaric and saddedning. and think about it. we never get away with anything, we are basicly the pinchild meaning we get blaimed for alot. now bush needs to go and die in a hole (personaly i wish had a gun to go shoot him) but still generaly we are the same as any other nation. look at england. the beutiful inocent nation. in its prime it killed and concuered. people hates blindly again i say dont hate the country or the people.hate the guy that does the deed.
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I\'m Canadian and don\'t exactly follow this. What\'s evil about US is Bush, and every little jerk there that thinks they\'ll use nukes to kill us. One time some little floridan said the states had 2600 nukes and they were going to use them on Canada to take us over.
Wtf.
Get a life.
2600 nukes and you\'ll be owning yourself, too.
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yeah lol! we do have that many nukes i bet though just because we are one of the leading nuclear powers (behind china i think)
but the usa would almost never want to fight canada because you know usa and canada are like friends and stuff
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no the us would never fight canada with nukes simply becausseeee...
95% of canadians live within 100 miles of the border so any bomb dropped on the major canadian cities... would affect the usa cities 50 miles north...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA
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Originally posted by Cybio Kingfist
I\'m Canadian and don\'t exactly follow this. What\'s evil about US is Bush, and every little jerk there that thinks they\'ll use nukes to kill us. One time some little floridan said the states had 2600 nukes and they were going to use them on Canada to take us over.
Wtf.
Actually, the US has on the order of 7,000 to 10,000 nuclear warheads in all. See:http://www.cdi.org/nuclear/database/nukestab.html (http://www.cdi.org/nuclear/database/nukestab.html)
While most of these are inactive, they can be taken out of storage if needed. Hopefully the number will go down as they are dismantled. But yeah, anyone advocating the use of nukes to settle international disputes is either narrow minded or not worth talking to.
The radioactive fallout from some of the higher yield thermonuclear bombs would drift into the upper atmosphere and contaminate the planet. Not to mention the nasty EMP that would knock out satellites and electronics over a huge range.
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Originally posted by kbilik
Originally posted by Cybio Kingfist
I\'m Canadian and don\'t exactly follow this. What\'s evil about US is Bush, and every little jerk there that thinks they\'ll use nukes to kill us. One time some little floridan said the states had 2600 nukes and they were going to use them on Canada to take us over.
Wtf.
Actually, the US has on the order of 7,000 to 10,000 nuclear warheads in all. See:http://www.cdi.org/nuclear/database/nukestab.html (http://www.cdi.org/nuclear/database/nukestab.html)
While most of these are inactive, they can be taken out of storage if needed. Hopefully the number will go down as they are dismantled. But yeah, anyone advocating the use of nukes to settle international disputes is either narrow minded or not worth talking to.
The radioactive fallout from some of the higher yield thermonuclear bombs would drift into the upper atmosphere and contaminate the planet. Not to mention the nasty EMP that would knock out satellites and electronics over a huge range.
That many nukes would basically destroy the world. Though, I can\'t say I\'d be surprised if Bush ordered that.
\"Ok, let\'s send ten thousand nukes to the ice caps!\"
*Canada is destroyed and tons of radiation is spread through the winds to the world, a flood taking out what remains of america.*
We should ditch Bush on Pluto and fires nukes at him there since he\'s so obsessed with bombing things.
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Originally posted by windwalker
no the us would never fight canada with nukes simply becausseeee...
95% of canadians live within 100 miles of the border so any bomb dropped on the major canadian cities... would affect the usa cities 50 miles north...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA
No they wouldn\'t wage war with us because Canada is literally almost a unarmed country, we don\'t seek out fights we help others who need it in a peacful way! Imagine if they did decide to attack Canada...the American reputation would fall farther down the sewer then it already is and it would cause a World War 3 because the ammount of Canadian supporters and allies around the world!
Reputation sometimes proves stronger then guns :P
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Canada is not an unarmed country,
We just don\'t go around starting fights with terrorist countries like Bush does. :P
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No lol we are pretty much a unarmed country there talking about removing military completely in the future.
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That would make us tree huggers. D\':
I don\'t want to be a tree hugger!
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Black Rose stop telling people to shut up. And Depth weren\'t we are going to spend a bunch o money on the navy soon?
And you can make no guesses of what the world would be like without USA. If you tthink about it USA has given the world one very big thing, somebody to hate. Seriously, everybody needs one and imagine how complex the web of hating would be if there wasn\'t the US :P
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@waylander: Lol, but sad, too.
The reason we haven\'t and will never attack Canada is simple: It\'s an unjustifiable waste of money.
The Canadians are already relatively quiet, calm, and usually co-operative.
Bush would not use nukes unless they were used on him. His advisors would tackle him and drag him away if he tried (and he wouldn\'t try.)